welcome
to another episode of ivac
exploring boys education a regular
podcast in which we engage
with the ideas that are
shaping the landscape of boys
education I'm Bruce Collins ibac
director of member engagement and
it's a real privilege to
be your host episode
episode
will be the first of
a two-part series in which
we explore reaching teaching and
succeeding with boys of colour
before we get into today's
topic however I'd like to
just take a moment to
encourage you in this difficult
time when schools around the
world are facing up evil
and disruption because of the
covered 19th endemic we at
ibs-c Marvel at the work
you will continue to do
for your boys as you
never get a new way
of being remember that we
are here to support you
your school and your work
with boys in November
2019 Saint Albans School in
Washington DC in collaboration with
gilman school and Baltimore Collegiate
hosted the first of what
we hope will become regular
events on the ibs-c conference
calendar the reaching teaching and
succeeding with boys of colour
conference opened the door to
match challenge in debate for
the delegates assembled there is
meaningful conversations of spilt over
and Spark dialogue in many
corners of the Coalition as
a result of This two-part
podcast is one more way
of engaging other people in
this conversation will hear more
about the conference itself from
Sherry Russia Dean of students
at Saint Albans School in
part two part one Focuses
on the conversations I was
privileged to have with Jack
panel doctor Joseph Nelson and
Dr Randall Kennedy and will
create a foundation for boys
schools with regards to reaching
teaching and succeeding with boys
of Colour in part 2
will release soon we speak
to teachers and school leaders
in New Zealand the United
States South Africa and other
parts of the world about
their work with boys on
the mountains
in engaging in this conversation
I am reminded of what
bell hooks says in teaching
to transgress the classroom remains
the most Radical Space of
possibility in the Academy education
was about the practice of
freedom and the classroom community
our capacity to generate excitement
is deeply affected by our
interest in one another in
hearing one another's voices in
recognising one another's presents my
teachers make sure they knew
as they knew our parents
are economic status where we
were shipped what are homes
were like and how we
were treated in the family
it is clear to me
that we cannot ignore this
work and that it is
imperative for us to engage
in these important conversation we
start by connecting with Randall
Kennedy who is the Michael
or claim professor at Harvard
law school where he teaches
courses on contract criminal law
and the regulation of race
relations Kennedy writes for a
wide range of scholarly and
general interest publications and is
a multi Book published author
at the start of our
conversation and asked him to
share about his interest in
the topic of reaching teaching
and succeeding with boys of
colour well I should
say that much of what
I think about this has
to do with not so
much with my professional experience
I mean I'm a I'm
a professor at a law
school so the students with
whom I interact with considerably
older than the students with
whom colleagues and secondary schools
in Iraq and I and
I often say their colleagues
and secondary schools I have
a much more difficult job
because I'm I teach young
adults and I don't have
to interact with their parents
where is if you get
a secondary school you thought
your teaching teenagers and
you you you you are
interacting with their parents and
that's a that's a much
more difficult undertaking so much
of my thinking about this
really I I I tap
into my own personal
history of the most important
school that I attended was
my secondary school Saint Albans
School for Boys in Washington
DC I Was One of
few black students are
at Saint Albans it
was very important to me
I have kept in touch
with my teachers and
with Saint Albans as an
institution and have you remember
maintained an interest in the
Education of of of of
boys and the Education of
the boys of Colour in
particular at your private in
Leeds schools but it it
it's not part of my
day today teacher like I
said I've stayed in touch
with have stayed in touch
with my my former teachers
that was on the board
at Saint Albans for a
number of years and
I meant with with colleagues
with with friends who send
their kids to schools I
have two boys are three
children of the oven in
two boys two of my
boys went to weigh independent
all-boys Catholic School in Needham
Massachusetts a wonderful school on
saint Sebastian school so you're
as a parent as well
I am I guess I
have been very interested in
in the subject ask trundle
to give his views on
the importance of this work
in schools it's important that
were having these conversations because
we still confront real problems
of of of of of
all sorts I'm in need
of the fact the matter
is that it's it's still
the case that in many
private schools the rate
in the number of boys
of coloured pens to be
small and sometimes
you're sometimes vanishingly small and
that you know that raises
that raises issues it raises
problems the chocolate history I
mean that the fact of
the matter is the The
History Boys
of colour at elite secondary
schools it's it's it's not
a long history and in
certain ways you dated
the school's the boys at
their schools and certain ways
are still in the worst
in the pioneering stages in
in in many respects not
like we have a long
long long beep we develop
history we were still experimenting
were still trying to find
her way and the only
way in which we can
accomplish that is through discussion
through experiment through the
pain to try to figure
out methods and best methods
next Randall reflected on the
challenges that boys of colour
face in their pursuit of
education there many midol
while it's supposed here again
I'm pulling on my own
and
I'm going out of biographical
here so you did
you grow up in a
sinner in a neighborhood and
I grew up in a
predominantly black the federally your
work working class settled
a good neighborhood but
I was to go to
Saint Albans I went across
the city I left my
neighborhood I left the kids
with whom I had grown
up with all mine bro
you know I I I
was going someplace
else and I'm leaving I'm
leaving what's familiar to me
I'm going to new surroundings
and for a youngster that
that that that that that
can be a real big
deal there were feelings
out so I'm your only
know my my friends in
my neighborhood said it may
well you're not really why
are you leaving why are
you leave sing us are
you with anything else are
you ashamed of us are
you now are you at
are you too good for
us when does are you
the boss of the sort
of questions that that
I got and that I
know for certain that over
your boys of colour
get and then when they
go to do okay that's
what they get it that's
what they get in their
own neighborhood and there's a
certain amount of alienation that
sometimes or rises and
and that can be that
can be tough for that
youngster and then okay so
then that they go to
the new place and in
the new place they are
talking with youngsters who you
don't then social sometimes they
don't socialize quite differently and
they know sometimes they like
you know very different music
that's better sensibilities are different
they maybe they haven't been
around for years of colour
before and you know they
might I ask questions which
is a perfect be perfectly
innocent questions but maybe they
come off in a sort
of awkwardly and so these
are some of the issues
that come up you can
go to a different school
you avoid calling little different
school did not many are
aware of you
know boys of Colour in
your in your class you
feel like you're speaking out
and then of
course with any youngster out
of here who the youngster
is if you're growing up
you going to class you
trying Your Best you're in
a competitive environment things come
up no misunderstandings there
are no mistakes made
and under the best of
circumstances now you
know a mistake is made
somebody says something well
is this just the sort
of thing that you know
happens you know everybody makes
mistakes everybody says something that
comes out the wrong way
some of the time or
is this something that is
aimed at me and
that means that that raises
a lot of anxiety it
was it was this was
this was this teacher this
message with me because I'm
black or was this teacher
dismissive because the teacher is
excessively dismissive of
this teacher give me a
bad Mark or about
the way if this teacher
gave me an extremely good
mark well is that
is that just the teachers
you know impression of my
I have written my achievement
or do we
have video is there some
sort of bias one way
or the other you know
playing into this all them
in these questions are too
difficult for adults for goodness
sakes much less people who
were 12 13 14 15
16 in considering reaching
teaching and succeeding with boys
of colour I ask Randall
to reflect on the pitfalls
of which schools need to
be aware when approaching this
work a colleague of mine
often used to say that
we don't know what we
don't know Randall gives us
some insight into where some
schools might be getting it
wrong one thing is are
you I am really happy
to see schools here
in my country in the
United States and I obviously
if you're around the world
are very concerned about this
or thinking about it are
putting resources into it that's
really good I'm glad about
that at the same time
you know when we try
to the virtues can devices
and one thing that I
am a little time I'm
concerned about is I
see
sometimes that my perception is
that sometimes out of the
water bill effort
to be welcoming
and to be supportive and
to be helpful my
perception is it sometimes institutions
are going overboard and
are actually being
counterproductive in their efforts
to you know actually be
helpful so I mean again
you people going to beat
this talk another thing that's
got to be debate about
this and different people that
see things differently but you
know you're asking me my
view so I want to
share with you my view
in the United States
both in private
secondary schools and in college
is so there is
less the following sort of
debate that goes on well
you know how how should
we bring in kids
who are you
know maybe from families that
have not been a don't
have it or have not
gone to private institutions before
maybe that you may be
the parents the other parents
want a long night of
these schools around since you
know maybe it may very
well be the only saw
the first kids that have
gone to schools like this
in the history of this
way so how do we
how do we how do
we deal with such students
do we just say OK
your rent and by the
way here now and then
then it when you've got
scholarship money and your class
start on Monday at 8:00
let me know if you
do do do it or
do we do more do
we friends whenever I have
the special programs where maybe
we bring those kids in
one or two or three
or four weeks early for
purposes of preparation for purposes
of mineral supplementation Thursday note
to sort of let me
know maybe try to go
get them up to speed
it seems to me that's
a complicated issue and I
think the people need to
be really very I didn't
need it need to be
thinking hard about it I
don't I know maybe if
you maybe it's a good
idea on the other hand
in these discussions I think
the people or they be
asking the rotation
should not take for granted
that it is a good
idea so for instance I've
seen settings I'll
go back to my car
wash on route to Princeton
University when I left Saint
Albans I would Princeton when
I was a freshman at
Princeton most minority
students with 20
week reminded even been
two weeks after it was
over it was a it
was a program that began
before the school year begin
and clearly the purpose of
Princeton University was to help
out in our minority
students from various places and
I feel the best of
intentions now interestingly though I
was not I was not
asked to be part of
it I did it I
just I just showed up
you know Monday morning we
have you know the greatness
with students I was not
asked to be part of
the program's looking back I'm
Italia I'm happy that I
wasn't part of the program
I think that the program
again well-intentioned but
it had some other other
negative side effects
over incidents on one side
effect was you had you
create a community of people
you know young people
who got to be part
of the class you created
a subset of people who
hung out together got to
know one another they were
all racial minority people so
you created it so you
know a subset before the
class got there male hero
you create a subset well-defined
but that subset of course
is going to remain a
subset and I think the
ideas
that sort of were let
loose in those the week
or two weeks however long
it was a certain sort
of what I think sociologist
now refer to sometimes as
a non oppositional culture there
was a certain sort of
scepticism toward the throat
of the broader community there
was a certain sort of
British nurse that had been
that had been inculcated so
I think these are things
that people order think about
if I'm going to the
school if I'm not a
girl I'm a I'm a
black kid I'm going to
I'm a come from the
predominately black neighborhood let's say
and I'm going to delete
well when I show up
you know well
you know how do you
want how how differently do
that do I want the
people to treat me do
I want just be you
know a rake it up
a I'm a stupid just
like every other student here
and I want to rise
or fall or widow distinguish
myself like everybody else maybe
I want to be treated
all that much differently maybe
I don't want to be
have been put in a
club that you know marks
me in some sort of
way so I mean I
think these are all questions
that you know we
need to really think about
think about hard and be
willing to maybe experiment then
you know looking at in
different way and I think
sometimes that in my experience
various ideas sword get
to be the fashionable ideas
the in ideas and people
assume that you know those
with a good idea as
well sometimes a good ideas
but not necessarily sure coming
out of this part of
the conversation I asked Randall
to suggest how boys schools
might work towards becoming more
inclusive space is number
one minute I think it's
certain that sort of fundamentals
that go for
students and frankly
I don't care who the
students are where they come
from which Power whenever you
have a selection process
you select people
who you think are going
to be to be able
to make it and who
were gonna be able to
make a contribution your community
and you think your community
is gonna be able to
make a contribution to them
so it
seems to me that that
needs to be there for
and centre you know are
you bringing people who you're
very concert or going to
be able to cut it
after
that you have high expectations
and by the way I
don't think that they should
be any sort of them
you shouldn't be eating subterfuge
the suit and be any
sort of the pretense I
think that you
can contribute to this community
of over you
know I'll be on scholars
that's why you
know we've made the scares
opportunity available to you we
want to help you do
that just like we want
to help every other of
this community every other person
in this community blossom week
we know we want to
help you blossom we expect
free the Blossom we want
me know I want to
communicate from day 1 high
expectations I think it's a
real problem if you have
a school in which year
after year after year there
is a disproportion of racial
minority kids in the last
part of the class and
very very
few vanishingly few minority
kids that are winning Uno
academic prizes and her to
type and meaning of these
these these students are not
blind these students are lying
over there at their 10
if they they they they
get it they see what's
been okay they pick up
on things and I think
about is a Type II
get the same sometimes it
that's the way it is
at some of these schools
you know the the the
athletes from the prize athletes
racial minority kids nice
kids wonderful kids but you
know they're near the bottom
of the class well you
know if if if you
go to school for 4
years and you get her
situated to the minority kids
being at the bottom of
the class that's not a
good that's
not a good lesson that
in our school wanted to
be imparting to anyone
to go to the pathway
to the white kids all
the minority kids
my conversation with professor Kennedy
gives us a good foundation
for the next conversation in
which I was privileged enough
to engage with Jack Purnell
who is the executive director
of the Baltimore Collegiate School
for boys and Dr Joseph
Nelson assistant professor in the
department of Educational studies at
swarthmore college and affiliated
faculty with the black studies
program and the gender and
sexuality studies program he is
also a senior research fellow
with the center for the
study of boys and girls
lives at the University of
Pennsylvania as I started my
conversation with Jack and Joseph
they help contextualize the conversation
for us Jacks opening thoughts
are insightful I hope
Joseph take a deep breath
I think treating
teaching to saying with boys
with colour we will have
to go back into an
era were so many schools
Lisa nanuet contact were boy
boys and and
what life was like for
one or two or three
boys Caribbean a couple of
other people who don't look
like them I was one
of those boys in mehrauli
my headlights not a boy
school but I was one
of the first black kids
to desegregate public schools in
Dayton Ohio and so I
went to an all-white school
was so it's Craig kid
and you know I experienced
a lot of things that
a kid should not have
to stress about it now
that's in the seventies and
eighties now 40
years away from that and
it still many many campuses
are a small minority of
voice of Colour in a
predominately white campus-wide
setting and so mmm
the other schools that have
done tremendous work in diversifying
their school population school community
with students from all walks
of life and I believe
that's been an amazing asset
for those groups because the
book The Boy in that
environment our it security the
world as it is or
was it should be some
in a diverse world in
many cities around the world
that are extremely the person
you are to city London
or Sydney to some extent
and and and the people
working along side by side
with each other and I
think that you are more
responsibility as school leaders
as teachers and school environments
to do you understand what
it's like to read teach
and succeed with boys colour
and I too can speak
from my own experience in
High School in Milwaukee Wisconsin
been one of very few
boys of Colour in a
predominantly white all-boys Catholic Jesuit
High School and seeing
that experience as one that
this particular learning environment needed
to be especially attuned to
because there were so few
us and our experiences
were going to be very
different from our peers and
what I experienced in that
context was a lot sooner
around questions that I take
that now as a university
professor researchers are around relationships
with boys of colour and
how that becomes a critical
window into seeing them as
more than often times the
negative stereotypes of the
race and gender that uses
a lens 40 them as
potential problems or disruption or
water not let into the
kinds of learning environments so
icy relationship
to the critical as a
medium through which teachers and
other educators can reach and
teach an exterior doors a
colour in light of these
lines of different around race
and class in particular career
after navigating within these spaces
so those relationships allow us
to see those young boys
of colour black boys in
particular outside of his narrative
that are often perpetuated the
past Joseph and Jack to
comment on the pressure marginalized
boys feel to assimilate into
a dominant cultural expression in
a school that there
is to be explicit conversations
with bowls of color about
the learning environment that the
entering the predominately white but
that particular history that are
tied to a particularly local
contacts self speaking in the
US there is a strong
history around race relations within
the US and often times
and it's cool Complex
where very few blacks attended
and there are norms
and expectations within those environments
are often are lined with
white eurocentric perspectives and Histories
that shape the learning
experience so I think it's
important for boys of colour
to recognise that it's part
of a contest after entering
it then allows them to
see who
they are as something that
is a value or a
contribution to this morning about
not nice you know not
see themselves as a
burden but in fact something
that can enhance and expand
and enrich these communities in
the light of their own
distinct call Rachel and cultural
approaches
0 word assimilations entertainment is
fraught with the song worry
for me because there
might be an expectation by
substitution like
at the Boise co-op be
just like us and I
think who are the goal
of education is to the
goal of education degree I
think the goal was a
leader of all boys school
is that I want boys
to discover of who they
are and to be comfortable
and who they are for
a boy of colour and
I'm not going to mention
boys on the margin their
boys go all income households
are we from indigenous cultures
and other countries that we
might not use the same
language but we're talking about
that boy were she is
seen as a minority on
a school campus that that
you know weather for walked
through the doors of your
schools around the world a
boy's colour he is probably
shedding a part of himself
walk in the door every
single day and 12
and 13 years old you
may not know what that
means but I can tell
you're having lived at that
it's a strong
one friend of mine went
to the private school says
he was in washing DC
and he live dinner and
have to take the greater
part of the city and
he would take three buses
to get to school and
he said he would spend
his time dressing up on
three buses to look right
walk in the school and
then we'll after school I'm
driving so she could go
back this whole community I
answer that so that's why
there's a lot of work
there right that's put it
on that boys lived experience
every single day that has
to do with maintaining four
years staying connected to his
family ordering food is
also going into a school
and figure out how he's
going to live and thrive
and study in school that
can be remarkably different from
his wife at home and
it's a constant regular navigation
that border collar boys on
the Martin have to contend
with that represents another layer
of resilience that they need
to exercise in order for
them just to be a
successful student reading that is
oftentimes overlook doll acknowledge her
doll recognise and if
their adolescence or early adolescence
children even that that these
Expectations for them to think
about what part of themselves
are gonna be emphasize emphasize
and still hold a positive
since the self throughout all
of that and do well
in physics factors that may
have to contend with that
I think we as educators
and as folks who work
in schools can you think
about how we can organise
schools or structures schools in
ways that mitigate the levels
of resilience that offer voice
me to to exercise so
I suppose the question is
this is there a crisis
in education of black boys
marginalized boys and boys of
colour does a woodchuck weigh
in on this question intern
in popular discourse in news
and media and film oftentimes
our black boys are in
fact in crisis and speaking
to you are asking a
set of negative social and
Academic outcomes so outside of
schools in black male lead
in the country and rates
of homicide suicide in incarceration
but then the context of
school we see them overrepresented
in suspension and expulsion rates
and then under-represented in advance
placement of matter horses having
more likely to be designated
as a students who have
special needs and ultimately are
more likely to drop out
so is both social and
Academic outcomes that make up
this crisis at least particularly
within the US contacts that
is derived from a history
of race relations in the
US that perpetuate a set
of stereotypes about black men
being hyper aggressive anti-intellectual
hyposexual as the archetypal what
it needs to be a
black man in the van
has words to the history
of slavery within the US
so from one generation to
the next we see a
perpetuation of images but then
the contribute to how we
organised schools and communities as
places that are racially
martinizing in an asshole marginalized
by gender think contribute to
the perpetuation of these outcomes
and and situation
within the black boys and
Men themselves rather than the
schools and neighborhoods and communities
within which state navigate are
designed in ways of responding
to this negative image that
only contributes to the continuation
of these outcomes clearly the
intersection between gender and race
is important technology in this
conversation that you know
it's it's I said of
the holiday double
threat he was
about racial and gender stereotypes
intersecting in a way that
causes teachers and other educators
to have a particular view
of the show with me
to be a man and
a boy intersecting with what
it means to be black
spinel continued by
reflecting on his experience in
this regard I created a
school for boys in an
urban setting up that were
the majority of the boys
are black and
98% of boys play
The Colour and the african-american
60% come from
single-parent households and
70% come from households living
in poverty I would
say that our school is
in many ways and Joseph
it's been the president is
unapologetically Black when I say
that I think there's
a notion of safety when
the boys come into our
space that they feel safe
they feel loved and they
feel understood and we
worked very hard to not
prepare them for a world
that is all of one
colour but we work hard
to compare them so they
could compete and succeed in
a world that often hostile
to them we have a
boy at our boys boarding
school here in the US
and this boy friends to
a very racially-charged
incident at his school
with a roommate cool cozumel
buy a derogatory word
racially-charged rabbit or a word
and it in the boy
had to deal with an
AutoZone then he broke his
mummy said I didn't tell
your mum about it because
I didn't want to lose
my scholarship.in that
gave me great par like
this was bigger than him
this was an institutional problem
this is a problem for
me another student and should
have been severely punished or
expelled from the school but
yet there's 30 year old
boy is trying to navigate
this order so many
schools including schools and they
are doing wonderful work to
support boys colour and marginalized
boys to succeed the most
important place that's cool they're
doing now I'm making him
up from the steps to
recruit and support
financially or boy scout coming
to the doors are opening
the doors are creating access
to a high-quality education that
is the number one thing
I see the second
thing is many schools have
created positions
for people dealing with diversity
and inclusion so there's a
conversation of flood and mould
school about diversity inclusion the
source of these include I
think of self-introspection that say
what are we done wrong
what can we do better
I add to an eagerness
to change and to be
data platform socks and sweater
so I think that's very
good and I think I'm
seeing more graduates of the
school's wanting to come back
and make things better for
them for the present generation
of boys at schools banned
for the degeneration and what
I can speak to in
regards to cook chicken in
the oven at work is
a doubling down on the
importance of relationship building relation
of 60 as a practice
where teachers are being supported
in coach the roundabout open
classes of learning relationships with
boys in schools and then
blackboard Wars According wise boys
in particular that when there's
when learning is the goal
and there's these lines of
difference that were navigating around
race gender and class and
better at being marginalized within
particular local were global contexts
believed to be in intentionality
brought for the house relationships
that are rooted in a
sense of curious in a
sense of understanding of a
boy's perspective and experience that
helps you understand their worldview
better but helps you better
teach them in the contacts
of the wrong school or
and it's through those relationships
that you found that the
boys that once you have
these images of that are
tied to this race and
gender stereotypes becomes the furthest
thing from a man in
many ways so much more
that the narrative that are
saturated about them and then
that is what allows for
a reimagining of boys at
4 with Jeff it is
fundamentally at the root of
all of the issues and
alcohols and crises rhetoric that
we hear it's fasting and
a reimagining of a boy's
a colour and marginalized or
that then will allow teachers
and educators to see the
great potential and promise and
then work to realise that
in their life Joseph and
Jack continue by highlighting the
questions about which they believe
educators of boys need to
be thinking about I wanted
to be thinking about who
they pull their boys are
and making a concerted
genuine effort to get to
know them and always checking
in with themselves about what
efforts am I making to
ask them about their
experiences really value their perspective
and then learn about their
lives but then I think
is as may be
common sense because that makes
sound or clear I think
it's all one thing that
still gets in the way
of educators being able to
effectively teach for the colour
I thank you Joseph
I think that's pretty clear
but I see that I
really want to be very
precise is that I think
it starts at many schools
are are not as the
verses that could be ironed
in a bit so therefore
be cousin as diverse as
it could be that I
think is incumbent upon all
our stuff in school to
do exactly what your situation
is to develop real authentic
learning lationships with with with
with their point of Korra
martelize boys and and and
just my opinion I shared
a thing and that this
can be taught it doesn't
matter if you're black white
green blue we
can teach how to have
a positive learning
relationship with boys call it
was saying I think was
Angels or maybe you just
agreeing with her saying that
it looks different here
at me now it looks
different for boys calling you
shouldn't come to her what
a lot of assumptions but
you should be willing to
to have a growth mindset
around understanding how you can
be more stuff where's your
students on a social or
emotional and learning
perspective and I do agree
that you know the week
we've learnt through asking about
their relationship with both as
well as asking boys about
the relationship with teachers what
are gestures that they've known
for teachers to extending that
it's been helpful and then
building a positive relationship and
the ones in light of
kind of our border colour
have been more than the
lies within school contacts that
are more beneficial than other
account to be more sale
in our cell phone Apple
Store fashion common ground the
pastor of a teacher exploring
similarities that they have with
the boys that they teach
and that simple gesture of
acknowledging the same interest in
or even the same interest
in technology yoursaint interest
in a television show is
just the simple gesture that
are nobody to see themselves
in the boys and then
the boys are still allow
themselves to see themselves in
their futures that is as
a new doll one kind
of relational gesture that teachers
and boys talk about been
extended in those relationships that
then becomes especially failure for
black boys with distinctive black
boys and light organic these
differences that there is there
a fake navigate school policy
and other structural concerns and
ways of being in a
school space impact their experience
boys have in that space
in particular this is true
for marginalised boys and boys
of colour when one considers
things like teacher expectations school
discipline policies and special Educational
referrals I come
to recognise through the research
literature as the policy the
institutional practices within schools that
are inflicting the most harm
on board so what are
the ways in which we
can adapt or modify these
practices within schools to make
them more equitable so that
schools are operating in more
disproportional ways around ortigas
expectations of boys being more
acute than negative and
or how we determine what
actions or behaviours dictator stupid
indicating a special need all
of those specific policies examples
of once were reflecting the
most harm we need to
revisit you know what end
up providing more support for
teachers and administrators are round
how can we implement these
practices and more equitable ways
then allow boys to be
more they are and not
become a place that continues
another contact Sandra live with
her being Martin do you
think we can give a
very specific example that
will help our listeners to
Karen have you know what
time is it comes to
my mind is the club
week nine campuses between free
speech and hate speech and
efforts to nab oil corresponds
with Violence toward a gun
on an object is used
against him that boy is
likely to be
expelled for being engaged 5
Warehouse the boy who use
the word my pussy but
different kind consequence I am
in the hotel Kathmandu no
easy Solutions around it but
you know we teach our
boys are they long use
your mouth in your in
your head rather than your
hands in your arms and
you're trying to avoid
that every matter does apple
music through a physical altercation
but the Times Where seems
to me you could work
is pushed over the edge
and that's what he knows
to do that fair jobs
at what he said absolutely
and I think along with
that another quick example is
just a young boy colour
expressing excitement around on now
we'll listen that's about it
so it could be in
a middle school classroom elementary
school classroom and they're about
to do a volcano experiment
and the boys been excited
and demonstrating his excitement through
walking around in their hair
and that action being perceived
by the teacher as a
possible threat is Gonna Knock
over the volcano is going
to disrupt the activity in
some way and so would
have to be right away
or discontinue it be
that action that behaviour as
a form of excitement that
he or she could harness
towards the implementation of this
novel experiment that they're about
to conduct social another example
of leaves that example maybe
also the future expectation category
that then if we can
shift teachers in Kings of
the blood Wars a force
of colour in the classrooms
were more likely to see
those actions as the next
as an expression of excitement
intellectual curiosity promise potential
that then we can harness
towards their learning in the
learning of their of their
peers in wrapping up I
asked Jack and Joseph to
share an encouragement for educators
of boys as they consider
mindfully the task of reaching
teaching and succeeding with boys
of colour I need to
do things that I think
the school should actually be
thinking about this one is
convenient conversations often
with the boys and
the boys colour and their
parents interesting open form for
nothing since I did as
much as people are heard
I think when people feel
heard and I'm seeing this
happening across schools across the
world a whole different kind
of institutional pastor can
come about if we just
listened carefully to our family
and not listen like I'm
gonna solve every problem we
possibly have as much as
like how do we solve
this problem together and so
I think convening the boys
can weaning their parents and
other stakeholders in ongoing conversations
about life at your school's
is as a boy of
colour and marginalize boy will
go a long way in
making will change and I
guess I would offer an
extension of work just showed
her teachers and educators probably
within schools that boys
are inclined to to
be open to
I guess being seen and
let
curiosity rather than fear
be the starting point you
let you support your
boys that I think that
is one thing I see
is after patch just are
calluses of teachers that
then are afraid in many
ways to reach out and
extend that that it's replacing
that fear and even that
feel that as well meaning
in that there are genuine
interest and support now wow
but with Curiosity and
seeing the possibility and potential
that they have a complaint
at their school Communities so
it's outrageous
curiosity about the boys in
the lights I'm sure you'd
agree that there's so much
food for thoughts in this
episode am challenged in particular
by Dr Joseph Nelson's encouragement
for us to let curiosity
rather than fear be the
starting point for our support
of boys of colour and
marginalized boys and that we
would all develop a courageous
curiosity about the boys in
our lives join us soon
on part two of this
episode as we connect with
educators from around the world
who will share practical insights
about how this work vans
authentic expression in their contacts
don't forget to send us
your thoughts on a WhatsApp
voice note we'd love to
feature as many voices as
possible on this topic in
part to you can send
these voice notes twoplustwo 77189
11898 until
our next conversation very soon
especially in this challenging time
keep safe and well