WEBVTT - This file has cues. 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.000 welcome 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:10.000 to another episode of ivac 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.900 exploring boys education a regular 00:00:12.900 --> 00:00:14.400 podcast in which we engage 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:15.500 with the ideas that are 00:00:15.500 --> 00:00:17.000 shaping the landscape of boys 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.400 education I'm Bruce Collins ibac 00:00:20.400 --> 00:00:22.500 director of member engagement and 00:00:22.500 --> 00:00:23.500 it's a real privilege to 00:00:23.500 --> 00:00:28.800 be your host episode 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:33.700 episode 00:00:33.700 --> 00:00:34.700 will be the first of 00:00:34.700 --> 00:00:36.800 a two-part series in which 00:00:36.800 --> 00:00:38.700 we explore reaching teaching and 00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:40.100 succeeding with boys of colour 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:44.000 before we get into today's 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.600 topic however I'd like to 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:46.800 just take a moment to 00:00:46.800 --> 00:00:47.900 encourage you in this difficult 00:00:47.900 --> 00:00:49.800 time when schools around the 00:00:49.800 --> 00:00:51.500 world are facing up evil 00:00:51.500 --> 00:00:52.800 and disruption because of the 00:00:52.800 --> 00:00:55.800 covered 19th endemic we at 00:00:55.800 --> 00:00:57.900 ibs-c Marvel at the work 00:00:57.900 --> 00:00:59.100 you will continue to do 00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:00.500 for your boys as you 00:01:00.500 --> 00:01:01.700 never get a new way 00:01:01.700 --> 00:01:04.100 of being remember that we 00:01:04.100 --> 00:01:05.200 are here to support you 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.500 your school and your work 00:01:07.500 --> 00:01:11.000 with boys in November 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:13.900 2019 Saint Albans School in 00:01:13.900 --> 00:01:16.100 Washington DC in collaboration with 00:01:16.100 --> 00:01:18.100 gilman school and Baltimore Collegiate 00:01:18.100 --> 00:01:19.800 hosted the first of what 00:01:19.800 --> 00:01:21.400 we hope will become regular 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:23.600 events on the ibs-c conference 00:01:23.600 --> 00:01:26.400 calendar the reaching teaching and 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:27.700 succeeding with boys of colour 00:01:27.700 --> 00:01:29.400 conference opened the door to 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:31.200 match challenge in debate for 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:33.600 the delegates assembled there is 00:01:33.600 --> 00:01:35.700 meaningful conversations of spilt over 00:01:35.700 --> 00:01:37.800 and Spark dialogue in many 00:01:37.800 --> 00:01:39.800 corners of the Coalition as 00:01:39.800 --> 00:01:41.200 a result of This two-part 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:42.900 podcast is one more way 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:44.900 of engaging other people in 00:01:44.900 --> 00:01:47.100 this conversation will hear more 00:01:47.100 --> 00:01:49.100 about the conference itself from 00:01:49.100 --> 00:01:50.900 Sherry Russia Dean of students 00:01:50.900 --> 00:01:52.400 at Saint Albans School in 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:54.800 part two part one Focuses 00:01:54.800 --> 00:01:56.100 on the conversations I was 00:01:56.100 --> 00:01:57.800 privileged to have with Jack 00:01:57.800 --> 00:02:00.100 panel doctor Joseph Nelson and 00:02:00.100 --> 00:02:02.100 Dr Randall Kennedy and will 00:02:02.100 --> 00:02:03.600 create a foundation for boys 00:02:03.600 --> 00:02:05.300 schools with regards to reaching 00:02:05.300 --> 00:02:07.000 teaching and succeeding with boys 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:08.700 of Colour in part 2 00:02:08.700 --> 00:02:11.200 will release soon we speak 00:02:11.200 --> 00:02:12.600 to teachers and school leaders 00:02:12.600 --> 00:02:14.100 in New Zealand the United 00:02:14.100 --> 00:02:15.600 States South Africa and other 00:02:15.600 --> 00:02:16.900 parts of the world about 00:02:16.900 --> 00:02:18.500 their work with boys on 00:02:18.500 --> 00:02:19.100 the mountains 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:26.600 in engaging in this conversation 00:02:26.600 --> 00:02:28.300 I am reminded of what 00:02:28.300 --> 00:02:30.200 bell hooks says in teaching 00:02:30.200 --> 00:02:33.200 to transgress the classroom remains 00:02:33.200 --> 00:02:34.700 the most Radical Space of 00:02:34.700 --> 00:02:37.300 possibility in the Academy education 00:02:37.300 --> 00:02:39.000 was about the practice of 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:41.600 freedom and the classroom community 00:02:41.600 --> 00:02:43.500 our capacity to generate excitement 00:02:43.500 --> 00:02:45.800 is deeply affected by our 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:48.000 interest in one another in 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.100 hearing one another's voices in 00:02:50.100 --> 00:02:53.100 recognising one another's presents my 00:02:53.100 --> 00:02:54.500 teachers make sure they knew 00:02:54.500 --> 00:02:56.400 as they knew our parents 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:58.300 are economic status where we 00:02:58.300 --> 00:03:00.100 were shipped what are homes 00:03:00.100 --> 00:03:01.800 were like and how we 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:03.600 were treated in the family 00:03:03.600 --> 00:03:05.800 it is clear to me 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:07.500 that we cannot ignore this 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:08.900 work and that it is 00:03:08.900 --> 00:03:10.300 imperative for us to engage 00:03:10.300 --> 00:03:13.800 in these important conversation we 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:15.800 start by connecting with Randall 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:17.600 Kennedy who is the Michael 00:03:17.600 --> 00:03:19.900 or claim professor at Harvard 00:03:19.900 --> 00:03:21.500 law school where he teaches 00:03:21.500 --> 00:03:23.700 courses on contract criminal law 00:03:23.700 --> 00:03:25.500 and the regulation of race 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:28.200 relations Kennedy writes for a 00:03:28.200 --> 00:03:29.800 wide range of scholarly and 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:31.900 general interest publications and is 00:03:31.900 --> 00:03:33.500 a multi Book published author 00:03:33.500 --> 00:03:35.300 at the start of our 00:03:35.300 --> 00:03:37.100 conversation and asked him to 00:03:37.100 --> 00:03:38.500 share about his interest in 00:03:38.500 --> 00:03:40.500 the topic of reaching teaching 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:42.000 and succeeding with boys of 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.900 colour well I should 00:03:45.900 --> 00:03:48.700 say that much of what 00:03:48.700 --> 00:03:50.700 I think about this has 00:03:50.700 --> 00:03:52.700 to do with not so 00:03:52.700 --> 00:03:54.300 much with my professional experience 00:03:54.300 --> 00:03:56.200 I mean I'm a I'm 00:03:56.200 --> 00:03:57.600 a professor at a law 00:03:57.600 --> 00:04:00.900 school so the students with 00:04:00.900 --> 00:04:02.500 whom I interact with considerably 00:04:02.500 --> 00:04:04.900 older than the students with 00:04:04.900 --> 00:04:08.000 whom colleagues and secondary schools 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.000 in Iraq and I and 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:11.900 I often say their colleagues 00:04:11.900 --> 00:04:14.800 and secondary schools I have 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:16.600 a much more difficult job 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:19.000 because I'm I teach young 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.400 adults and I don't have 00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:23.100 to interact with their parents 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:25.300 where is if you get 00:04:25.300 --> 00:04:27.000 a secondary school you thought 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:30.300 your teaching teenagers and 00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:31.700 you you you you are 00:04:31.700 --> 00:04:33.600 interacting with their parents and 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:34.400 that's a that's a much 00:04:34.400 --> 00:04:37.600 more difficult undertaking so much 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:39.000 of my thinking about this 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:41.000 really I I I tap 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.100 into my own personal 00:04:44.100 --> 00:04:45.900 history of the most important 00:04:45.900 --> 00:04:48.200 school that I attended was 00:04:48.200 --> 00:04:50.000 my secondary school Saint Albans 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:51.800 School for Boys in Washington 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:54.300 DC I Was One of 00:04:54.300 --> 00:04:57.300 few black students are 00:04:57.300 --> 00:05:01.000 at Saint Albans it 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:02.000 was very important to me 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:04.100 I have kept in touch 00:05:04.100 --> 00:05:07.400 with my teachers and 00:05:07.400 --> 00:05:08.500 with Saint Albans as an 00:05:08.500 --> 00:05:11.700 institution and have you remember 00:05:11.700 --> 00:05:16.000 maintained an interest in the 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:17.800 Education of of of of 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:19.600 boys and the Education of 00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:21.100 the boys of Colour in 00:05:21.100 --> 00:05:24.500 particular at your private in 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:26.700 Leeds schools but it it 00:05:26.700 --> 00:05:27.800 it's not part of my 00:05:27.800 --> 00:05:30.000 day today teacher like I 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:31.400 said I've stayed in touch 00:05:31.400 --> 00:05:33.100 with have stayed in touch 00:05:33.100 --> 00:05:34.700 with my my former teachers 00:05:34.700 --> 00:05:35.700 that was on the board 00:05:35.700 --> 00:05:38.500 at Saint Albans for a 00:05:38.500 --> 00:05:41.500 number of years and 00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:44.000 I meant with with colleagues 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.200 with with friends who send 00:05:46.200 --> 00:05:47.800 their kids to schools I 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:49.600 have two boys are three 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:51.500 children of the oven in 00:05:51.500 --> 00:05:52.700 two boys two of my 00:05:52.700 --> 00:05:56.100 boys went to weigh independent 00:05:56.100 --> 00:06:00.000 all-boys Catholic School in Needham 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.700 Massachusetts a wonderful school on 00:06:02.700 --> 00:06:05.600 saint Sebastian school so you're 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.300 as a parent as well 00:06:08.300 --> 00:06:09.700 I am I guess I 00:06:09.700 --> 00:06:13.300 have been very interested in 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:16.200 in the subject ask trundle 00:06:16.200 --> 00:06:17.300 to give his views on 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:18.900 the importance of this work 00:06:18.900 --> 00:06:20.800 in schools it's important that 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:22.700 were having these conversations because 00:06:22.700 --> 00:06:26.100 we still confront real problems 00:06:26.100 --> 00:06:28.200 of of of of of 00:06:28.200 --> 00:06:30.400 all sorts I'm in need 00:06:30.400 --> 00:06:31.200 of the fact the matter 00:06:31.200 --> 00:06:33.300 is that it's it's still 00:06:33.300 --> 00:06:34.900 the case that in many 00:06:34.900 --> 00:06:39.000 private schools the rate 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:41.500 in the number of boys 00:06:41.500 --> 00:06:43.100 of coloured pens to be 00:06:43.100 --> 00:06:47.400 small and sometimes 00:06:47.400 --> 00:06:51.400 you're sometimes vanishingly small and 00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:53.100 that you know that raises 00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:55.100 that raises issues it raises 00:06:55.100 --> 00:06:57.800 problems the chocolate history I 00:06:57.800 --> 00:06:58.700 mean that the fact of 00:06:58.700 --> 00:07:00.000 the matter is the The 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:03.300 History Boys 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:07.700 of colour at elite secondary 00:07:07.700 --> 00:07:10.000 schools it's it's it's not 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:13.600 a long history and in 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:17.400 certain ways you dated 00:07:17.400 --> 00:07:19.700 the school's the boys at 00:07:19.700 --> 00:07:21.300 their schools and certain ways 00:07:21.300 --> 00:07:22.600 are still in the worst 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:24.600 in the pioneering stages in 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:26.400 in in many respects not 00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:27.500 like we have a long 00:07:27.500 --> 00:07:30.200 long long beep we develop 00:07:30.200 --> 00:07:33.200 history we were still experimenting 00:07:33.200 --> 00:07:34.500 were still trying to find 00:07:34.500 --> 00:07:35.900 her way and the only 00:07:35.900 --> 00:07:37.600 way in which we can 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:41.200 accomplish that is through discussion 00:07:41.200 --> 00:07:44.600 through experiment through the 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.600 pain to try to figure 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.400 out methods and best methods 00:07:50.400 --> 00:07:52.900 next Randall reflected on the 00:07:52.900 --> 00:07:54.500 challenges that boys of colour 00:07:54.500 --> 00:07:55.900 face in their pursuit of 00:07:55.900 --> 00:07:59.700 education there many midol 00:07:59.700 --> 00:08:02.400 while it's supposed here again 00:08:02.400 --> 00:08:05.100 I'm pulling on my own 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:08.100 and 00:08:08.100 --> 00:08:09.600 I'm going out of biographical 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:14.700 here so you did 00:08:14.700 --> 00:08:15.900 you grow up in a 00:08:15.900 --> 00:08:18.300 sinner in a neighborhood and 00:08:18.300 --> 00:08:19.000 I grew up in a 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:21.700 predominantly black the federally your 00:08:21.700 --> 00:08:26.600 work working class settled 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:29.700 a good neighborhood but 00:08:29.700 --> 00:08:30.700 I was to go to 00:08:30.700 --> 00:08:33.000 Saint Albans I went across 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.200 the city I left my 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:39.400 neighborhood I left the kids 00:08:39.400 --> 00:08:41.200 with whom I had grown 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:43.100 up with all mine bro 00:08:43.100 --> 00:08:43.900 you know I I I 00:08:43.900 --> 00:08:46.900 was going someplace 00:08:46.900 --> 00:08:49.800 else and I'm leaving I'm 00:08:49.800 --> 00:08:51.300 leaving what's familiar to me 00:08:51.300 --> 00:08:54.700 I'm going to new surroundings 00:08:54.700 --> 00:08:57.900 and for a youngster that 00:08:57.900 --> 00:08:59.800 that that that that that 00:08:59.800 --> 00:09:00.900 can be a real big 00:09:00.900 --> 00:09:04.900 deal there were feelings 00:09:04.900 --> 00:09:06.700 out so I'm your only 00:09:06.700 --> 00:09:08.300 know my my friends in 00:09:08.300 --> 00:09:09.300 my neighborhood said it may 00:09:09.300 --> 00:09:11.000 well you're not really why 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:12.700 are you leaving why are 00:09:12.700 --> 00:09:14.700 you leave sing us are 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:16.900 you with anything else are 00:09:16.900 --> 00:09:19.400 you ashamed of us are 00:09:19.400 --> 00:09:20.300 you now are you at 00:09:20.300 --> 00:09:21.400 are you too good for 00:09:21.400 --> 00:09:23.000 us when does are you 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:23.800 the boss of the sort 00:09:23.800 --> 00:09:26.800 of questions that that 00:09:26.800 --> 00:09:27.900 I got and that I 00:09:27.900 --> 00:09:30.500 know for certain that over 00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:33.600 your boys of colour 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:35.900 get and then when they 00:09:35.900 --> 00:09:37.500 go to do okay that's 00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:38.300 what they get it that's 00:09:38.300 --> 00:09:38.900 what they get in their 00:09:38.900 --> 00:09:40.300 own neighborhood and there's a 00:09:40.300 --> 00:09:41.900 certain amount of alienation that 00:09:41.900 --> 00:09:45.200 sometimes or rises and 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:47.000 and that can be that 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:47.900 can be tough for that 00:09:47.900 --> 00:09:50.500 youngster and then okay so 00:09:50.500 --> 00:09:51.600 then that they go to 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:54.200 the new place and in 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:56.400 the new place they are 00:09:56.400 --> 00:10:01.000 talking with youngsters who you 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:02.600 don't then social sometimes they 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:06.100 don't socialize quite differently and 00:10:06.100 --> 00:10:07.500 they know sometimes they like 00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:09.400 you know very different music 00:10:09.400 --> 00:10:12.700 that's better sensibilities are different 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.800 they maybe they haven't been 00:10:15.800 --> 00:10:18.500 around for years of colour 00:10:18.500 --> 00:10:21.500 before and you know they 00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:23.300 might I ask questions which 00:10:23.300 --> 00:10:26.100 is a perfect be perfectly 00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:27.600 innocent questions but maybe they 00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:28.800 come off in a sort 00:10:28.800 --> 00:10:32.000 of awkwardly and so these 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:33.400 are some of the issues 00:10:33.400 --> 00:10:34.800 that come up you can 00:10:34.800 --> 00:10:35.700 go to a different school 00:10:35.700 --> 00:10:37.100 you avoid calling little different 00:10:37.100 --> 00:10:38.000 school did not many are 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.100 aware of you 00:10:41.100 --> 00:10:42.600 know boys of Colour in 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:44.900 your in your class you 00:10:44.900 --> 00:10:46.200 feel like you're speaking out 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:49.500 and then of 00:10:49.500 --> 00:10:51.400 course with any youngster out 00:10:51.400 --> 00:10:52.500 of here who the youngster 00:10:52.500 --> 00:10:53.700 is if you're growing up 00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:55.700 you going to class you 00:10:55.700 --> 00:10:57.400 trying Your Best you're in 00:10:57.400 --> 00:10:59.700 a competitive environment things come 00:10:59.700 --> 00:11:03.400 up no misunderstandings there 00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:06.600 are no mistakes made 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:09.200 and under the best of 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.900 circumstances now you 00:11:12.900 --> 00:11:14.700 know a mistake is made 00:11:14.700 --> 00:11:18.000 somebody says something well 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.200 is this just the sort 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:21.800 of thing that you know 00:11:21.800 --> 00:11:24.000 happens you know everybody makes 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.100 mistakes everybody says something that 00:11:26.100 --> 00:11:27.000 comes out the wrong way 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.200 some of the time or 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:31.900 is this something that is 00:11:31.900 --> 00:11:35.500 aimed at me and 00:11:35.500 --> 00:11:37.600 that means that that raises 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:39.100 a lot of anxiety it 00:11:39.100 --> 00:11:40.200 was it was this was 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:43.400 this was this teacher this 00:11:43.400 --> 00:11:46.500 message with me because I'm 00:11:46.500 --> 00:11:49.100 black or was this teacher 00:11:49.100 --> 00:11:51.000 dismissive because the teacher is 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:54.400 excessively dismissive of 00:11:54.400 --> 00:11:57.100 this teacher give me a 00:11:57.100 --> 00:12:00.300 bad Mark or about 00:12:00.300 --> 00:12:01.500 the way if this teacher 00:12:01.500 --> 00:12:03.300 gave me an extremely good 00:12:03.300 --> 00:12:06.400 mark well is that 00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:09.700 is that just the teachers 00:12:09.700 --> 00:12:13.200 you know impression of my 00:12:13.100 --> 00:12:17.100 I have written my achievement 00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:20.100 or do we 00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:21.800 have video is there some 00:12:21.800 --> 00:12:23.400 sort of bias one way 00:12:23.400 --> 00:12:24.600 or the other you know 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:27.500 playing into this all them 00:12:27.500 --> 00:12:28.600 in these questions are too 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:30.500 difficult for adults for goodness 00:12:30.500 --> 00:12:33.100 sakes much less people who 00:12:33.100 --> 00:12:35.500 were 12 13 14 15 00:12:35.500 --> 00:12:38.600 16 in considering reaching 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:40.200 teaching and succeeding with boys 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:42.100 of colour I ask Randall 00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:43.600 to reflect on the pitfalls 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:44.900 of which schools need to 00:12:44.900 --> 00:12:46.200 be aware when approaching this 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.000 work a colleague of mine 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:49.300 often used to say that 00:12:49.300 --> 00:12:50.400 we don't know what we 00:12:50.400 --> 00:12:52.600 don't know Randall gives us 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:54.100 some insight into where some 00:12:54.100 --> 00:12:55.600 schools might be getting it 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:58.700 wrong one thing is are 00:12:58.700 --> 00:13:00.600 you I am really happy 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:04.100 to see schools here 00:13:04.100 --> 00:13:05.200 in my country in the 00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:06.600 United States and I obviously 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:08.700 if you're around the world 00:13:08.700 --> 00:13:11.200 are very concerned about this 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:13.200 or thinking about it are 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:15.500 putting resources into it that's 00:13:15.500 --> 00:13:17.600 really good I'm glad about 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:20.600 that at the same time 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:22.000 you know when we try 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:25.000 to the virtues can devices 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:27.600 and one thing that I 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:29.400 am a little time I'm 00:13:29.400 --> 00:13:32.500 concerned about is I 00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:36.000 see 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:39.000 sometimes that my perception is 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.200 that sometimes out of the 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.400 water bill effort 00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:47.500 to be welcoming 00:13:47.500 --> 00:13:50.000 and to be supportive and 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:53.500 to be helpful my 00:13:53.500 --> 00:13:56.700 perception is it sometimes institutions 00:13:56.700 --> 00:14:00.000 are going overboard and 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.100 are actually being 00:14:04.100 --> 00:14:07.700 counterproductive in their efforts 00:14:07.700 --> 00:14:09.700 to you know actually be 00:14:09.700 --> 00:14:14.100 helpful so I mean again 00:14:14.100 --> 00:14:15.800 you people going to beat 00:14:15.800 --> 00:14:17.500 this talk another thing that's 00:14:17.500 --> 00:14:18.300 got to be debate about 00:14:18.300 --> 00:14:19.500 this and different people that 00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:21.800 see things differently but you 00:14:21.800 --> 00:14:23.000 know you're asking me my 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:23.800 view so I want to 00:14:23.800 --> 00:14:24.800 share with you my view 00:14:24.800 --> 00:14:27.800 in the United States 00:14:27.800 --> 00:14:33.300 both in private 00:14:33.300 --> 00:14:36.700 secondary schools and in college 00:14:36.700 --> 00:14:39.800 is so there is 00:14:39.800 --> 00:14:41.900 less the following sort of 00:14:41.900 --> 00:14:43.400 debate that goes on well 00:14:43.400 --> 00:14:45.200 you know how how should 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:49.000 we bring in kids 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:52.300 who are you 00:14:52.300 --> 00:14:55.100 know maybe from families that 00:14:55.100 --> 00:14:57.700 have not been a don't 00:14:57.700 --> 00:14:58.500 have it or have not 00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:00.500 gone to private institutions before 00:15:00.500 --> 00:15:01.800 maybe that you may be 00:15:01.800 --> 00:15:02.900 the parents the other parents 00:15:02.900 --> 00:15:03.900 want a long night of 00:15:03.900 --> 00:15:06.000 these schools around since you 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:07.000 know maybe it may very 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:08.400 well be the only saw 00:15:08.400 --> 00:15:09.800 the first kids that have 00:15:09.800 --> 00:15:11.500 gone to schools like this 00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:12.800 in the history of this 00:15:12.800 --> 00:15:15.000 way so how do we 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:16.300 how do we how do 00:15:16.300 --> 00:15:19.300 we deal with such students 00:15:19.300 --> 00:15:21.900 do we just say OK 00:15:21.900 --> 00:15:24.100 your rent and by the 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:26.100 way here now and then 00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:27.100 then it when you've got 00:15:27.100 --> 00:15:30.200 scholarship money and your class 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:31.900 start on Monday at 8:00 00:15:31.900 --> 00:15:32.600 let me know if you 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:33.500 do do do it or 00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:36.600 do we do more do 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:40.700 we friends whenever I have 00:15:40.700 --> 00:15:43.500 the special programs where maybe 00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:45.000 we bring those kids in 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:46.600 one or two or three 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.800 or four weeks early for 00:15:49.800 --> 00:15:53.100 purposes of preparation for purposes 00:15:53.100 --> 00:15:55.600 of mineral supplementation Thursday note 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:57.100 to sort of let me 00:15:57.100 --> 00:15:58.000 know maybe try to go 00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:58.900 get them up to speed 00:15:58.900 --> 00:16:03.900 it seems to me that's 00:16:03.900 --> 00:16:05.700 a complicated issue and I 00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:06.700 think the people need to 00:16:06.700 --> 00:16:10.500 be really very I didn't 00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:11.400 need it need to be 00:16:11.400 --> 00:16:12.700 thinking hard about it I 00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:15.800 don't I know maybe if 00:16:15.800 --> 00:16:17.300 you maybe it's a good 00:16:17.300 --> 00:16:19.900 idea on the other hand 00:16:19.900 --> 00:16:21.100 in these discussions I think 00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:22.400 the people or they be 00:16:22.400 --> 00:16:25.800 asking the rotation 00:16:25.800 --> 00:16:26.800 should not take for granted 00:16:26.800 --> 00:16:27.500 that it is a good 00:16:27.500 --> 00:16:29.900 idea so for instance I've 00:16:29.900 --> 00:16:33.000 seen settings I'll 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:33.700 go back to my car 00:16:33.700 --> 00:16:34.800 wash on route to Princeton 00:16:34.800 --> 00:16:37.200 University when I left Saint 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:40.500 Albans I would Princeton when 00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:41.300 I was a freshman at 00:16:41.300 --> 00:16:44.300 Princeton most minority 00:16:44.300 --> 00:16:47.400 students with 20 00:16:47.400 --> 00:16:50.500 week reminded even been 00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:52.200 two weeks after it was 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:52.800 over it was a it 00:16:52.800 --> 00:16:54.500 was a program that began 00:16:54.500 --> 00:16:57.100 before the school year begin 00:16:57.100 --> 00:17:00.000 and clearly the purpose of 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:03.100 Princeton University was to help 00:17:03.100 --> 00:17:06.400 out in our minority 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:09.200 students from various places and 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:10.400 I feel the best of 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.000 intentions now interestingly though I 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:14.500 was not I was not 00:17:14.500 --> 00:17:16.200 asked to be part of 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:16.800 it I did it I 00:17:16.800 --> 00:17:18.400 just I just showed up 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:20.400 you know Monday morning we 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:21.300 have you know the greatness 00:17:21.300 --> 00:17:23.300 with students I was not 00:17:23.300 --> 00:17:24.700 asked to be part of 00:17:24.700 --> 00:17:28.100 the program's looking back I'm 00:17:28.100 --> 00:17:30.000 Italia I'm happy that I 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.200 wasn't part of the program 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:32.800 I think that the program 00:17:32.800 --> 00:17:36.200 again well-intentioned but 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.800 it had some other other 00:17:38.800 --> 00:17:43.400 negative side effects 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:45.400 over incidents on one side 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:48.000 effect was you had you 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.400 create a community of people 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.400 you know young people 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:54.300 who got to be part 00:17:54.300 --> 00:17:56.200 of the class you created 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.200 a subset of people who 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:01.400 hung out together got to 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:03.300 know one another they were 00:18:03.300 --> 00:18:06.400 all racial minority people so 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.800 you created it so you 00:18:08.800 --> 00:18:11.300 know a subset before the 00:18:11.300 --> 00:18:14.300 class got there male hero 00:18:14.300 --> 00:18:17.900 you create a subset well-defined 00:18:17.900 --> 00:18:20.100 but that subset of course 00:18:20.100 --> 00:18:21.900 is going to remain a 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:25.000 subset and I think the 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:29.700 ideas 00:18:29.700 --> 00:18:31.800 that sort of were let 00:18:31.800 --> 00:18:33.900 loose in those the week 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:35.100 or two weeks however long 00:18:35.100 --> 00:18:36.600 it was a certain sort 00:18:36.600 --> 00:18:38.700 of what I think sociologist 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:40.300 now refer to sometimes as 00:18:40.300 --> 00:18:42.500 a non oppositional culture there 00:18:42.500 --> 00:18:43.500 was a certain sort of 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:46.800 scepticism toward the throat 00:18:46.800 --> 00:18:49.500 of the broader community there 00:18:49.500 --> 00:18:50.400 was a certain sort of 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:52.700 British nurse that had been 00:18:52.700 --> 00:18:55.300 that had been inculcated so 00:18:55.300 --> 00:18:57.200 I think these are things 00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.500 that people order think about 00:18:59.500 --> 00:19:00.900 if I'm going to the 00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:02.700 school if I'm not a 00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:03.700 girl I'm a I'm a 00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:05.700 black kid I'm going to 00:19:05.700 --> 00:19:07.000 I'm a come from the 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:08.800 predominately black neighborhood let's say 00:19:08.800 --> 00:19:12.400 and I'm going to delete 00:19:12.900 --> 00:19:15.600 well when I show up 00:19:15.600 --> 00:19:18.700 you know well 00:19:18.700 --> 00:19:20.200 you know how do you 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.300 want how how differently do 00:19:22.300 --> 00:19:23.300 that do I want the 00:19:23.300 --> 00:19:24.500 people to treat me do 00:19:24.500 --> 00:19:26.700 I want just be you 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:27.400 know a rake it up 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:28.700 a I'm a stupid just 00:19:28.700 --> 00:19:29.800 like every other student here 00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:32.700 and I want to rise 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:34.800 or fall or widow distinguish 00:19:34.800 --> 00:19:38.900 myself like everybody else maybe 00:19:38.900 --> 00:19:42.100 I want to be treated 00:19:42.100 --> 00:19:43.900 all that much differently maybe 00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:44.900 I don't want to be 00:19:44.900 --> 00:19:47.100 have been put in a 00:19:47.100 --> 00:19:50.700 club that you know marks 00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:51.900 me in some sort of 00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:54.100 way so I mean I 00:19:54.100 --> 00:19:55.200 think these are all questions 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:58.200 that you know we 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:01.100 need to really think about 00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:02.800 think about hard and be 00:20:02.800 --> 00:20:04.600 willing to maybe experiment then 00:20:04.600 --> 00:20:06.300 you know looking at in 00:20:06.300 --> 00:20:07.300 different way and I think 00:20:07.300 --> 00:20:10.200 sometimes that in my experience 00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:13.300 various ideas sword get 00:20:13.300 --> 00:20:14.900 to be the fashionable ideas 00:20:14.900 --> 00:20:17.600 the in ideas and people 00:20:17.600 --> 00:20:19.000 assume that you know those 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:20.500 with a good idea as 00:20:20.500 --> 00:20:22.100 well sometimes a good ideas 00:20:22.100 --> 00:20:25.400 but not necessarily sure coming 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:26.300 out of this part of 00:20:26.300 --> 00:20:28.400 the conversation I asked Randall 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:30.200 to suggest how boys schools 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:32.200 might work towards becoming more 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:35.900 inclusive space is number 00:20:35.900 --> 00:20:39.000 one minute I think it's 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:41.300 certain that sort of fundamentals 00:20:41.300 --> 00:20:44.600 that go for 00:20:44.600 --> 00:20:47.600 students and frankly 00:20:47.600 --> 00:20:48.600 I don't care who the 00:20:48.600 --> 00:20:50.200 students are where they come 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:57.500 from which Power whenever you 00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:01.000 have a selection process 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:04.000 you select people 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:05.900 who you think are going 00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:08.000 to be to be able 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.100 to make it and who 00:21:11.100 --> 00:21:11.800 were gonna be able to 00:21:11.800 --> 00:21:13.900 make a contribution your community 00:21:13.900 --> 00:21:15.400 and you think your community 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:16.000 is gonna be able to 00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:17.400 make a contribution to them 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:20.600 so it 00:21:20.600 --> 00:21:21.700 seems to me that that 00:21:21.700 --> 00:21:23.600 needs to be there for 00:21:23.600 --> 00:21:26.000 and centre you know are 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:29.300 you bringing people who you're 00:21:29.300 --> 00:21:31.600 very concert or going to 00:21:31.600 --> 00:21:33.200 be able to cut it 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.600 after 00:21:36.600 --> 00:21:38.600 that you have high expectations 00:21:38.600 --> 00:21:40.700 and by the way I 00:21:40.700 --> 00:21:42.000 don't think that they should 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.600 be any sort of them 00:21:43.600 --> 00:21:46.200 you shouldn't be eating subterfuge 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:47.300 the suit and be any 00:21:47.300 --> 00:21:50.100 sort of the pretense I 00:21:50.100 --> 00:21:53.100 think that you 00:21:53.100 --> 00:21:55.100 can contribute to this community 00:21:55.100 --> 00:21:58.600 of over you 00:21:58.600 --> 00:22:00.500 know I'll be on scholars 00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:03.600 that's why you 00:22:03.600 --> 00:22:05.200 know we've made the scares 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.300 opportunity available to you we 00:22:08.300 --> 00:22:09.300 want to help you do 00:22:09.300 --> 00:22:10.400 that just like we want 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:11.800 to help every other of 00:22:11.800 --> 00:22:13.300 this community every other person 00:22:13.300 --> 00:22:16.700 in this community blossom week 00:22:16.700 --> 00:22:17.500 we know we want to 00:22:17.500 --> 00:22:19.200 help you blossom we expect 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:20.400 free the Blossom we want 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.900 me know I want to 00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:24.300 communicate from day 1 high 00:22:24.300 --> 00:22:26.600 expectations I think it's a 00:22:26.600 --> 00:22:27.900 real problem if you have 00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:30.200 a school in which year 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.000 after year after year there 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.900 is a disproportion of racial 00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:38.700 minority kids in the last 00:22:38.700 --> 00:22:41.100 part of the class and 00:22:41.100 --> 00:22:44.300 very very 00:22:44.300 --> 00:22:47.300 few vanishingly few minority 00:22:47.300 --> 00:22:50.200 kids that are winning Uno 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:52.400 academic prizes and her to 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:54.600 type and meaning of these 00:22:54.600 --> 00:22:56.300 these these students are not 00:22:56.300 --> 00:22:58.400 blind these students are lying 00:22:58.400 --> 00:22:59.400 over there at their 10 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:00.500 if they they they they 00:23:00.500 --> 00:23:02.200 get it they see what's 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:03.500 been okay they pick up 00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:05.600 on things and I think 00:23:05.600 --> 00:23:07.700 about is a Type II 00:23:07.700 --> 00:23:09.500 get the same sometimes it 00:23:09.500 --> 00:23:10.300 that's the way it is 00:23:10.300 --> 00:23:12.300 at some of these schools 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:15.500 you know the the the 00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:18.300 athletes from the prize athletes 00:23:18.300 --> 00:23:22.700 racial minority kids nice 00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:26.400 kids wonderful kids but you 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:28.100 know they're near the bottom 00:23:28.100 --> 00:23:31.100 of the class well you 00:23:31.100 --> 00:23:32.800 know if if if you 00:23:32.800 --> 00:23:34.400 go to school for 4 00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:37.000 years and you get her 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:39.100 situated to the minority kids 00:23:39.100 --> 00:23:40.300 being at the bottom of 00:23:40.300 --> 00:23:43.000 the class that's not a 00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.600 good that's 00:23:46.600 --> 00:23:48.600 not a good lesson that 00:23:48.600 --> 00:23:50.800 in our school wanted to 00:23:50.800 --> 00:23:53.800 be imparting to anyone 00:23:53.800 --> 00:23:55.100 to go to the pathway 00:23:55.100 --> 00:23:56.600 to the white kids all 00:23:56.600 --> 00:23:57.900 the minority kids 00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:03.700 my conversation with professor Kennedy 00:24:03.700 --> 00:24:04.900 gives us a good foundation 00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:07.000 for the next conversation in 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:08.100 which I was privileged enough 00:24:08.100 --> 00:24:09.600 to engage with Jack Purnell 00:24:09.600 --> 00:24:11.600 who is the executive director 00:24:11.600 --> 00:24:13.300 of the Baltimore Collegiate School 00:24:13.300 --> 00:24:15.200 for boys and Dr Joseph 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.500 Nelson assistant professor in the 00:24:17.500 --> 00:24:19.600 department of Educational studies at 00:24:19.600 --> 00:24:22.600 swarthmore college and affiliated 00:24:22.600 --> 00:24:24.100 faculty with the black studies 00:24:24.100 --> 00:24:25.600 program and the gender and 00:24:25.600 --> 00:24:28.200 sexuality studies program he is 00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:29.700 also a senior research fellow 00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:31.400 with the center for the 00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:32.700 study of boys and girls 00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:34.400 lives at the University of 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:39.200 Pennsylvania as I started my 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:40.800 conversation with Jack and Joseph 00:24:40.800 --> 00:24:43.100 they help contextualize the conversation 00:24:43.100 --> 00:24:45.800 for us Jacks opening thoughts 00:24:45.800 --> 00:24:49.600 are insightful I hope 00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:50.700 Joseph take a deep breath 00:24:53.300 --> 00:24:56.600 I think treating 00:24:56.600 --> 00:24:57.900 teaching to saying with boys 00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:00.200 with colour we will have 00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:01.600 to go back into an 00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:04.000 era were so many schools 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:07.500 Lisa nanuet contact were boy 00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:11.700 boys and and 00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:14.300 what life was like for 00:25:14.300 --> 00:25:15.400 one or two or three 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:18.400 boys Caribbean a couple of 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.300 other people who don't look 00:25:21.300 --> 00:25:22.700 like them I was one 00:25:22.700 --> 00:25:24.400 of those boys in mehrauli 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:25.800 my headlights not a boy 00:25:25.800 --> 00:25:27.500 school but I was one 00:25:27.500 --> 00:25:29.000 of the first black kids 00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.000 to desegregate public schools in 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.200 Dayton Ohio and so I 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:35.300 went to an all-white school 00:25:35.300 --> 00:25:37.800 was so it's Craig kid 00:25:37.800 --> 00:25:41.100 and you know I experienced 00:25:41.100 --> 00:25:42.000 a lot of things that 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:43.100 a kid should not have 00:25:43.100 --> 00:25:44.600 to stress about it now 00:25:44.600 --> 00:25:46.800 that's in the seventies and 00:25:46.800 --> 00:25:50.200 eighties now 40 00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:51.600 years away from that and 00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:54.500 it still many many campuses 00:25:54.500 --> 00:25:57.500 are a small minority of 00:25:57.500 --> 00:25:59.200 voice of Colour in a 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:02.200 predominately white campus-wide 00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:05.700 setting and so mmm 00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:07.400 the other schools that have 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:12.300 done tremendous work in diversifying 00:26:12.300 --> 00:26:14.900 their school population school community 00:26:14.900 --> 00:26:17.400 with students from all walks 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:19.500 of life and I believe 00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:20.900 that's been an amazing asset 00:26:20.900 --> 00:26:23.200 for those groups because the 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:24.200 book The Boy in that 00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:26.900 environment our it security the 00:26:26.900 --> 00:26:29.100 world as it is or 00:26:29.100 --> 00:26:30.500 was it should be some 00:26:30.500 --> 00:26:32.400 in a diverse world in 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:33.600 many cities around the world 00:26:33.600 --> 00:26:36.300 that are extremely the person 00:26:36.300 --> 00:26:37.500 you are to city London 00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:39.400 or Sydney to some extent 00:26:39.400 --> 00:26:42.600 and and and the people 00:26:42.600 --> 00:26:44.200 working along side by side 00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:45.000 with each other and I 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:46.900 think that you are more 00:26:46.900 --> 00:26:49.900 responsibility as school leaders 00:26:49.900 --> 00:26:52.500 as teachers and school environments 00:26:52.500 --> 00:26:55.400 to do you understand what 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:57.300 it's like to read teach 00:26:57.300 --> 00:26:59.100 and succeed with boys colour 00:26:59.100 --> 00:27:01.300 and I too can speak 00:27:01.300 --> 00:27:03.300 from my own experience in 00:27:03.300 --> 00:27:04.800 High School in Milwaukee Wisconsin 00:27:04.800 --> 00:27:06.800 been one of very few 00:27:06.800 --> 00:27:08.100 boys of Colour in a 00:27:08.100 --> 00:27:10.500 predominantly white all-boys Catholic Jesuit 00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:14.000 High School and seeing 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:16.800 that experience as one that 00:27:16.800 --> 00:27:18.700 this particular learning environment needed 00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:20.100 to be especially attuned to 00:27:20.100 --> 00:27:21.100 because there were so few 00:27:21.100 --> 00:27:24.200 us and our experiences 00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:24.900 were going to be very 00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:28.300 different from our peers and 00:27:28.300 --> 00:27:30.400 what I experienced in that 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.200 context was a lot sooner 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.600 around questions that I take 00:27:34.600 --> 00:27:35.800 that now as a university 00:27:35.800 --> 00:27:39.500 professor researchers are around relationships 00:27:39.500 --> 00:27:40.900 with boys of colour and 00:27:40.900 --> 00:27:42.600 how that becomes a critical 00:27:42.600 --> 00:27:44.500 window into seeing them as 00:27:44.500 --> 00:27:46.400 more than often times the 00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:49.600 negative stereotypes of the 00:27:49.600 --> 00:27:52.400 race and gender that uses 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:54.700 a lens 40 them as 00:27:54.700 --> 00:27:57.300 potential problems or disruption or 00:27:57.300 --> 00:28:00.200 water not let into the 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:02.700 kinds of learning environments so 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:05.900 icy relationship 00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:07.200 to the critical as a 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.100 medium through which teachers and 00:28:10.100 --> 00:28:11.800 other educators can reach and 00:28:11.800 --> 00:28:13.400 teach an exterior doors a 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:14.900 colour in light of these 00:28:14.900 --> 00:28:17.500 lines of different around race 00:28:17.500 --> 00:28:18.800 and class in particular career 00:28:18.800 --> 00:28:20.600 after navigating within these spaces 00:28:20.600 --> 00:28:22.600 so those relationships allow us 00:28:22.600 --> 00:28:24.400 to see those young boys 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:25.500 of colour black boys in 00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:27.900 particular outside of his narrative 00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:29.000 that are often perpetuated the 00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:31.700 past Joseph and Jack to 00:28:31.700 --> 00:28:33.800 comment on the pressure marginalized 00:28:33.800 --> 00:28:35.800 boys feel to assimilate into 00:28:35.800 --> 00:28:38.100 a dominant cultural expression in 00:28:38.100 --> 00:28:41.200 a school that there 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:43.000 is to be explicit conversations 00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:45.400 with bowls of color about 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:46.800 the learning environment that the 00:28:46.800 --> 00:28:49.000 entering the predominately white but 00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:50.600 that particular history that are 00:28:50.600 --> 00:28:52.400 tied to a particularly local 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.300 contacts self speaking in the 00:28:54.300 --> 00:28:56.300 US there is a strong 00:28:56.300 --> 00:28:58.400 history around race relations within 00:28:58.400 --> 00:28:59.400 the US and often times 00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:02.900 and it's cool Complex 00:29:02.900 --> 00:29:04.700 where very few blacks attended 00:29:04.700 --> 00:29:08.200 and there are norms 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:10.100 and expectations within those environments 00:29:10.100 --> 00:29:11.700 are often are lined with 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:14.300 white eurocentric perspectives and Histories 00:29:14.300 --> 00:29:17.500 that shape the learning 00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:18.800 experience so I think it's 00:29:18.800 --> 00:29:20.200 important for boys of colour 00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:22.700 to recognise that it's part 00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:24.100 of a contest after entering 00:29:24.100 --> 00:29:26.600 it then allows them to 00:29:26.600 --> 00:29:29.800 see who 00:29:29.800 --> 00:29:31.600 they are as something that 00:29:31.600 --> 00:29:32.900 is a value or a 00:29:32.900 --> 00:29:35.300 contribution to this morning about 00:29:35.300 --> 00:29:37.200 not nice you know not 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.200 see themselves as a 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.400 burden but in fact something 00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:44.800 that can enhance and expand 00:29:44.800 --> 00:29:46.900 and enrich these communities in 00:29:46.900 --> 00:29:48.000 the light of their own 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:49.700 distinct call Rachel and cultural 00:29:49.700 --> 00:29:52.800 approaches 00:29:52.800 --> 00:29:55.900 0 word assimilations entertainment is 00:29:55.900 --> 00:29:58.000 fraught with the song worry 00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:01.300 for me because there 00:30:01.300 --> 00:30:02.700 might be an expectation by 00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:06.000 substitution like 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:07.900 at the Boise co-op be 00:30:07.900 --> 00:30:11.500 just like us and I 00:30:11.500 --> 00:30:13.300 think who are the goal 00:30:13.300 --> 00:30:17.600 of education is to the 00:30:17.600 --> 00:30:18.700 goal of education degree I 00:30:18.700 --> 00:30:19.700 think the goal was a 00:30:19.700 --> 00:30:21.300 leader of all boys school 00:30:21.300 --> 00:30:22.900 is that I want boys 00:30:22.900 --> 00:30:24.600 to discover of who they 00:30:24.600 --> 00:30:27.600 are and to be comfortable 00:30:27.600 --> 00:30:30.400 and who they are for 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:31.600 a boy of colour and 00:30:31.600 --> 00:30:32.300 I'm not going to mention 00:30:32.300 --> 00:30:33.900 boys on the margin their 00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:36.000 boys go all income households 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:37.900 are we from indigenous cultures 00:30:37.900 --> 00:30:40.600 and other countries that we 00:30:40.600 --> 00:30:41.400 might not use the same 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:42.800 language but we're talking about 00:30:42.800 --> 00:30:44.200 that boy were she is 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:46.800 seen as a minority on 00:30:46.800 --> 00:30:51.200 a school campus that that 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:55.900 you know weather for walked 00:30:55.900 --> 00:30:57.200 through the doors of your 00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.600 schools around the world a 00:30:58.600 --> 00:31:01.700 boy's colour he is probably 00:31:01.700 --> 00:31:03.400 shedding a part of himself 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:05.500 walk in the door every 00:31:05.500 --> 00:31:08.800 single day and 12 00:31:08.800 --> 00:31:09.600 and 13 years old you 00:31:09.600 --> 00:31:10.800 may not know what that 00:31:10.800 --> 00:31:13.500 means but I can tell 00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:15.200 you're having lived at that 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.400 it's a strong 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:20.600 one friend of mine went 00:31:20.600 --> 00:31:21.900 to the private school says 00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:23.800 he was in washing DC 00:31:23.800 --> 00:31:26.300 and he live dinner and 00:31:26.300 --> 00:31:27.000 have to take the greater 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.500 part of the city and 00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:29.600 he would take three buses 00:31:29.600 --> 00:31:30.800 to get to school and 00:31:30.800 --> 00:31:32.400 he said he would spend 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:35.500 his time dressing up on 00:31:35.500 --> 00:31:36.900 three buses to look right 00:31:36.900 --> 00:31:38.300 walk in the school and 00:31:38.300 --> 00:31:39.900 then we'll after school I'm 00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:41.000 driving so she could go 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.500 back this whole community I 00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:45.400 answer that so that's why 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:46.400 there's a lot of work 00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:48.300 there right that's put it 00:31:48.300 --> 00:31:50.100 on that boys lived experience 00:31:50.100 --> 00:31:52.100 every single day that has 00:31:52.100 --> 00:31:54.000 to do with maintaining four 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.700 years staying connected to his 00:31:55.700 --> 00:31:58.700 family ordering food is 00:31:58.700 --> 00:32:00.700 also going into a school 00:32:00.700 --> 00:32:01.900 and figure out how he's 00:32:01.900 --> 00:32:03.700 going to live and thrive 00:32:03.700 --> 00:32:05.900 and study in school that 00:32:05.900 --> 00:32:07.900 can be remarkably different from 00:32:07.900 --> 00:32:10.200 his wife at home and 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:13.600 it's a constant regular navigation 00:32:13.600 --> 00:32:15.400 that border collar boys on 00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:17.200 the Martin have to contend 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:20.200 with that represents another layer 00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:22.700 of resilience that they need 00:32:22.700 --> 00:32:24.300 to exercise in order for 00:32:24.300 --> 00:32:25.100 them just to be a 00:32:25.100 --> 00:32:28.100 successful student reading that is 00:32:28.100 --> 00:32:30.900 oftentimes overlook doll acknowledge her 00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:34.300 doll recognise and if 00:32:34.300 --> 00:32:37.500 their adolescence or early adolescence 00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:39.800 children even that that these 00:32:39.800 --> 00:32:41.500 Expectations for them to think 00:32:41.500 --> 00:32:42.800 about what part of themselves 00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:44.500 are gonna be emphasize emphasize 00:32:44.500 --> 00:32:46.300 and still hold a positive 00:32:46.300 --> 00:32:47.900 since the self throughout all 00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:49.400 of that and do well 00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:54.500 in physics factors that may 00:32:54.500 --> 00:32:56.600 have to contend with that 00:32:56.600 --> 00:32:58.300 I think we as educators 00:32:58.300 --> 00:33:00.500 and as folks who work 00:33:00.500 --> 00:33:01.800 in schools can you think 00:33:01.800 --> 00:33:02.800 about how we can organise 00:33:02.800 --> 00:33:04.900 schools or structures schools in 00:33:04.900 --> 00:33:07.400 ways that mitigate the levels 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:09.100 of resilience that offer voice 00:33:09.100 --> 00:33:11.800 me to to exercise so 00:33:11.800 --> 00:33:13.200 I suppose the question is 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.200 this is there a crisis 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:16.800 in education of black boys 00:33:16.800 --> 00:33:18.600 marginalized boys and boys of 00:33:18.600 --> 00:33:21.100 colour does a woodchuck weigh 00:33:21.100 --> 00:33:23.200 in on this question intern 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:26.500 in popular discourse in news 00:33:26.500 --> 00:33:28.200 and media and film oftentimes 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:31.300 our black boys are in 00:33:31.300 --> 00:33:33.600 fact in crisis and speaking 00:33:33.600 --> 00:33:34.900 to you are asking a 00:33:34.900 --> 00:33:36.500 set of negative social and 00:33:36.500 --> 00:33:39.400 Academic outcomes so outside of 00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:42.000 schools in black male lead 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:43.000 in the country and rates 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:44.600 of homicide suicide in incarceration 00:33:44.600 --> 00:33:47.100 but then the context of 00:33:47.100 --> 00:33:49.300 school we see them overrepresented 00:33:49.300 --> 00:33:50.500 in suspension and expulsion rates 00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:52.300 and then under-represented in advance 00:33:52.300 --> 00:33:54.300 placement of matter horses having 00:33:54.300 --> 00:33:55.500 more likely to be designated 00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:56.900 as a students who have 00:33:56.900 --> 00:33:58.500 special needs and ultimately are 00:33:58.500 --> 00:33:59.500 more likely to drop out 00:33:59.500 --> 00:34:01.600 so is both social and 00:34:01.600 --> 00:34:03.100 Academic outcomes that make up 00:34:03.100 --> 00:34:04.700 this crisis at least particularly 00:34:04.700 --> 00:34:06.700 within the US contacts that 00:34:06.700 --> 00:34:09.200 is derived from a history 00:34:09.200 --> 00:34:10.400 of race relations in the 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:12.000 US that perpetuate a set 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.400 of stereotypes about black men 00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:16.500 being hyper aggressive anti-intellectual 00:34:16.500 --> 00:34:19.400 hyposexual as the archetypal what 00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:19.900 it needs to be a 00:34:19.900 --> 00:34:21.300 black man in the van 00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:22.600 has words to the history 00:34:22.600 --> 00:34:23.800 of slavery within the US 00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:25.600 so from one generation to 00:34:25.600 --> 00:34:26.400 the next we see a 00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:28.500 perpetuation of images but then 00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:29.600 the contribute to how we 00:34:29.600 --> 00:34:32.000 organised schools and communities as 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:35.000 places that are racially 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.000 martinizing in an asshole marginalized 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.100 by gender think contribute to 00:34:39.100 --> 00:34:41.800 the perpetuation of these outcomes 00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:45.400 and and situation 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:46.900 within the black boys and 00:34:46.900 --> 00:34:49.700 Men themselves rather than the 00:34:49.700 --> 00:34:51.200 schools and neighborhoods and communities 00:34:51.200 --> 00:34:53.000 within which state navigate are 00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:54.800 designed in ways of responding 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:56.900 to this negative image that 00:34:56.900 --> 00:34:59.900 only contributes to the continuation 00:34:59.900 --> 00:35:02.200 of these outcomes clearly the 00:35:02.200 --> 00:35:04.300 intersection between gender and race 00:35:04.300 --> 00:35:06.500 is important technology in this 00:35:06.500 --> 00:35:09.800 conversation that you know 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:11.300 it's it's I said of 00:35:11.300 --> 00:35:15.000 the holiday double 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:18.800 threat he was 00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:21.800 about racial and gender stereotypes 00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:23.800 intersecting in a way that 00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:25.700 causes teachers and other educators 00:35:25.700 --> 00:35:27.700 to have a particular view 00:35:27.700 --> 00:35:30.100 of the show with me 00:35:30.100 --> 00:35:31.100 to be a man and 00:35:31.100 --> 00:35:32.800 a boy intersecting with what 00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:33.500 it means to be black 00:35:33.500 --> 00:35:36.500 spinel continued by 00:35:36.500 --> 00:35:38.400 reflecting on his experience in 00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:40.400 this regard I created a 00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:42.300 school for boys in an 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:45.000 urban setting up that were 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:46.300 the majority of the boys 00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:49.500 are black and 00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:53.800 98% of boys play 00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:55.500 The Colour and the african-american 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:58.500 60% come from 00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:03.300 single-parent households and 00:36:03.300 --> 00:36:05.900 70% come from households living 00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:10.200 in poverty I would 00:36:10.200 --> 00:36:11.300 say that our school is 00:36:11.300 --> 00:36:14.100 in many ways and Joseph 00:36:14.100 --> 00:36:15.200 it's been the president is 00:36:15.200 --> 00:36:18.100 unapologetically Black when I say 00:36:18.100 --> 00:36:21.100 that I think there's 00:36:21.100 --> 00:36:22.400 a notion of safety when 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:23.900 the boys come into our 00:36:23.900 --> 00:36:26.200 space that they feel safe 00:36:26.200 --> 00:36:29.300 they feel loved and they 00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:32.400 feel understood and we 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.600 worked very hard to not 00:36:34.600 --> 00:36:36.300 prepare them for a world 00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:38.700 that is all of one 00:36:38.700 --> 00:36:40.400 colour but we work hard 00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:41.600 to compare them so they 00:36:41.600 --> 00:36:43.800 could compete and succeed in 00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:46.700 a world that often hostile 00:36:46.700 --> 00:36:48.500 to them we have a 00:36:48.500 --> 00:36:51.100 boy at our boys boarding 00:36:51.100 --> 00:36:52.500 school here in the US 00:36:52.900 --> 00:36:54.800 and this boy friends to 00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.000 a very racially-charged 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.100 incident at his school 00:37:01.100 --> 00:37:05.200 with a roommate cool cozumel 00:37:05.200 --> 00:37:08.500 buy a derogatory word 00:37:08.500 --> 00:37:10.200 racially-charged rabbit or a word 00:37:10.200 --> 00:37:12.100 and it in the boy 00:37:12.100 --> 00:37:15.100 had to deal with an 00:37:15.100 --> 00:37:16.600 AutoZone then he broke his 00:37:16.600 --> 00:37:18.600 mummy said I didn't tell 00:37:18.600 --> 00:37:19.600 your mum about it because 00:37:19.600 --> 00:37:20.800 I didn't want to lose 00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:27.300 my scholarship.in that 00:37:27.300 --> 00:37:29.500 gave me great par like 00:37:29.500 --> 00:37:31.500 this was bigger than him 00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:33.200 this was an institutional problem 00:37:33.200 --> 00:37:34.600 this is a problem for 00:37:34.600 --> 00:37:35.900 me another student and should 00:37:35.900 --> 00:37:37.900 have been severely punished or 00:37:37.900 --> 00:37:39.900 expelled from the school but 00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:41.300 yet there's 30 year old 00:37:41.300 --> 00:37:43.400 boy is trying to navigate 00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:47.200 this order so many 00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:49.200 schools including schools and they 00:37:49.200 --> 00:37:52.100 are doing wonderful work to 00:37:52.100 --> 00:37:54.200 support boys colour and marginalized 00:37:54.200 --> 00:37:56.000 boys to succeed the most 00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:58.200 important place that's cool they're 00:37:58.200 --> 00:37:59.100 doing now I'm making him 00:37:59.100 --> 00:38:01.200 up from the steps to 00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:04.700 recruit and support 00:38:04.700 --> 00:38:08.000 financially or boy scout coming 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:09.000 to the doors are opening 00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:10.800 the doors are creating access 00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:13.100 to a high-quality education that 00:38:13.100 --> 00:38:15.500 is the number one thing 00:38:15.500 --> 00:38:18.700 I see the second 00:38:18.700 --> 00:38:21.100 thing is many schools have 00:38:21.100 --> 00:38:24.700 created positions 00:38:24.700 --> 00:38:27.200 for people dealing with diversity 00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:29.000 and inclusion so there's a 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:30.600 conversation of flood and mould 00:38:30.600 --> 00:38:32.900 school about diversity inclusion the 00:38:32.900 --> 00:38:34.000 source of these include I 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:35.800 think of self-introspection that say 00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:37.400 what are we done wrong 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:39.000 what can we do better 00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:41.000 I add to an eagerness 00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:44.300 to change and to be 00:38:44.300 --> 00:38:45.800 data platform socks and sweater 00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:47.600 so I think that's very 00:38:47.600 --> 00:38:51.300 good and I think I'm 00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:54.800 seeing more graduates of the 00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:56.800 school's wanting to come back 00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:59.600 and make things better for 00:38:59.600 --> 00:39:01.400 them for the present generation 00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:04.000 of boys at schools banned 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.200 for the degeneration and what 00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:07.900 I can speak to in 00:39:07.900 --> 00:39:09.200 regards to cook chicken in 00:39:09.200 --> 00:39:11.900 the oven at work is 00:39:11.900 --> 00:39:14.300 a doubling down on the 00:39:14.300 --> 00:39:17.500 importance of relationship building relation 00:39:17.500 --> 00:39:19.100 of 60 as a practice 00:39:19.100 --> 00:39:21.700 where teachers are being supported 00:39:21.700 --> 00:39:23.300 in coach the roundabout open 00:39:23.300 --> 00:39:25.200 classes of learning relationships with 00:39:25.200 --> 00:39:26.600 boys in schools and then 00:39:26.600 --> 00:39:29.600 blackboard Wars According wise boys 00:39:29.600 --> 00:39:33.700 in particular that when there's 00:39:33.700 --> 00:39:35.200 when learning is the goal 00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:36.700 and there's these lines of 00:39:36.700 --> 00:39:38.300 difference that were navigating around 00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:40.100 race gender and class and 00:39:40.100 --> 00:39:42.900 better at being marginalized within 00:39:42.900 --> 00:39:46.300 particular local were global contexts 00:39:46.300 --> 00:39:48.600 believed to be in intentionality 00:39:48.600 --> 00:39:50.400 brought for the house relationships 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:51.900 that are rooted in a 00:39:51.900 --> 00:39:53.300 sense of curious in a 00:39:53.300 --> 00:39:55.600 sense of understanding of a 00:39:55.600 --> 00:39:57.500 boy's perspective and experience that 00:39:57.500 --> 00:39:59.600 helps you understand their worldview 00:39:59.600 --> 00:40:00.800 better but helps you better 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:03.500 teach them in the contacts 00:40:03.500 --> 00:40:04.700 of the wrong school or 00:40:04.700 --> 00:40:07.500 and it's through those relationships 00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:08.700 that you found that the 00:40:08.700 --> 00:40:10.200 boys that once you have 00:40:10.200 --> 00:40:11.500 these images of that are 00:40:11.500 --> 00:40:12.500 tied to this race and 00:40:12.500 --> 00:40:14.900 gender stereotypes becomes the furthest 00:40:14.900 --> 00:40:17.200 thing from a man in 00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:18.700 many ways so much more 00:40:18.700 --> 00:40:19.900 that the narrative that are 00:40:19.900 --> 00:40:21.700 saturated about them and then 00:40:21.700 --> 00:40:22.700 that is what allows for 00:40:22.700 --> 00:40:24.700 a reimagining of boys at 00:40:24.700 --> 00:40:25.600 4 with Jeff it is 00:40:25.600 --> 00:40:27.300 fundamentally at the root of 00:40:27.300 --> 00:40:28.700 all of the issues and 00:40:28.700 --> 00:40:31.000 alcohols and crises rhetoric that 00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:33.800 we hear it's fasting and 00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:35.400 a reimagining of a boy's 00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:36.700 a colour and marginalized or 00:40:36.700 --> 00:40:39.500 that then will allow teachers 00:40:39.500 --> 00:40:41.000 and educators to see the 00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:43.500 great potential and promise and 00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:46.400 then work to realise that 00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:48.900 in their life Joseph and 00:40:48.900 --> 00:40:50.800 Jack continue by highlighting the 00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:52.600 questions about which they believe 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:54.800 educators of boys need to 00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:57.300 be thinking about I wanted 00:40:57.300 --> 00:40:59.800 to be thinking about who 00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:01.800 they pull their boys are 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:05.600 and making a concerted 00:41:05.600 --> 00:41:07.900 genuine effort to get to 00:41:07.900 --> 00:41:10.100 know them and always checking 00:41:10.100 --> 00:41:12.300 in with themselves about what 00:41:12.300 --> 00:41:15.000 efforts am I making to 00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:18.300 ask them about their 00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:22.200 experiences really value their perspective 00:41:22.200 --> 00:41:25.000 and then learn about their 00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:26.900 lives but then I think 00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:29.900 is as may be 00:41:29.900 --> 00:41:32.300 common sense because that makes 00:41:32.300 --> 00:41:34.400 sound or clear I think 00:41:34.400 --> 00:41:35.700 it's all one thing that 00:41:35.700 --> 00:41:36.900 still gets in the way 00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:38.500 of educators being able to 00:41:38.500 --> 00:41:41.000 effectively teach for the colour 00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.000 I thank you Joseph 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:45.200 I think that's pretty clear 00:41:45.200 --> 00:41:46.300 but I see that I 00:41:46.300 --> 00:41:47.400 really want to be very 00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:48.800 precise is that I think 00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:50.200 it starts at many schools 00:41:50.200 --> 00:41:52.700 are are not as the 00:41:52.700 --> 00:41:56.000 verses that could be ironed 00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:58.500 in a bit so therefore 00:41:58.500 --> 00:42:00.100 be cousin as diverse as 00:42:00.100 --> 00:42:00.900 it could be that I 00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:02.300 think is incumbent upon all 00:42:02.300 --> 00:42:04.600 our stuff in school to 00:42:04.600 --> 00:42:06.400 do exactly what your situation 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:09.000 is to develop real authentic 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.200 learning lationships with with with 00:42:11.200 --> 00:42:13.900 with their point of Korra 00:42:13.900 --> 00:42:16.500 martelize boys and and and 00:42:16.500 --> 00:42:18.900 just my opinion I shared 00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:20.000 a thing and that this 00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:21.600 can be taught it doesn't 00:42:21.600 --> 00:42:23.500 matter if you're black white 00:42:23.500 --> 00:42:26.500 green blue we 00:42:26.500 --> 00:42:27.800 can teach how to have 00:42:27.800 --> 00:42:30.800 a positive learning 00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:33.100 relationship with boys call it 00:42:33.100 --> 00:42:35.000 was saying I think was 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:36.000 Angels or maybe you just 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.500 agreeing with her saying that 00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:41.000 it looks different here 00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:41.900 at me now it looks 00:42:41.900 --> 00:42:43.500 different for boys calling you 00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:45.000 shouldn't come to her what 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:46.000 a lot of assumptions but 00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:46.700 you should be willing to 00:42:46.700 --> 00:42:48.600 to have a growth mindset 00:42:48.600 --> 00:42:51.300 around understanding how you can 00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:54.300 be more stuff where's your 00:42:54.300 --> 00:42:56.100 students on a social or 00:42:56.100 --> 00:42:59.100 emotional and learning 00:42:59.100 --> 00:43:01.500 perspective and I do agree 00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:03.100 that you know the week 00:43:03.100 --> 00:43:05.400 we've learnt through asking about 00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:07.100 their relationship with both as 00:43:07.100 --> 00:43:08.200 well as asking boys about 00:43:08.200 --> 00:43:10.400 the relationship with teachers what 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:13.000 are gestures that they've known 00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:14.600 for teachers to extending that 00:43:14.600 --> 00:43:15.500 it's been helpful and then 00:43:15.500 --> 00:43:18.000 building a positive relationship and 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.800 the ones in light of 00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.600 kind of our border colour 00:43:21.600 --> 00:43:22.500 have been more than the 00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:25.300 lies within school contacts that 00:43:25.300 --> 00:43:26.900 are more beneficial than other 00:43:26.900 --> 00:43:28.600 account to be more sale 00:43:28.600 --> 00:43:31.400 in our cell phone Apple 00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:33.500 Store fashion common ground the 00:43:33.500 --> 00:43:36.100 pastor of a teacher exploring 00:43:36.100 --> 00:43:38.400 similarities that they have with 00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:39.300 the boys that they teach 00:43:39.300 --> 00:43:41.500 and that simple gesture of 00:43:41.500 --> 00:43:43.900 acknowledging the same interest in 00:43:43.900 --> 00:43:46.300 or even the same interest 00:43:46.300 --> 00:43:49.300 in technology yoursaint interest 00:43:49.300 --> 00:43:51.000 in a television show is 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:52.600 just the simple gesture that 00:43:52.600 --> 00:43:54.200 are nobody to see themselves 00:43:54.200 --> 00:43:55.800 in the boys and then 00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:56.700 the boys are still allow 00:43:56.700 --> 00:43:58.000 themselves to see themselves in 00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.900 their futures that is as 00:43:59.900 --> 00:44:01.300 a new doll one kind 00:44:01.300 --> 00:44:03.600 of relational gesture that teachers 00:44:03.600 --> 00:44:04.900 and boys talk about been 00:44:04.900 --> 00:44:07.200 extended in those relationships that 00:44:07.200 --> 00:44:10.000 then becomes especially failure for 00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:11.500 black boys with distinctive black 00:44:11.500 --> 00:44:13.900 boys and light organic these 00:44:13.900 --> 00:44:15.100 differences that there is there 00:44:15.100 --> 00:44:18.000 a fake navigate school policy 00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:20.400 and other structural concerns and 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.400 ways of being in a 00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:23.800 school space impact their experience 00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:25.900 boys have in that space 00:44:25.900 --> 00:44:27.900 in particular this is true 00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:29.900 for marginalised boys and boys 00:44:29.900 --> 00:44:31.900 of colour when one considers 00:44:31.900 --> 00:44:34.400 things like teacher expectations school 00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:37.200 discipline policies and special Educational 00:44:37.200 --> 00:44:40.500 referrals I come 00:44:40.500 --> 00:44:43.300 to recognise through the research 00:44:43.300 --> 00:44:45.900 literature as the policy the 00:44:45.900 --> 00:44:48.100 institutional practices within schools that 00:44:48.100 --> 00:44:49.600 are inflicting the most harm 00:44:49.600 --> 00:44:53.900 on board so what are 00:44:53.900 --> 00:44:54.700 the ways in which we 00:44:54.700 --> 00:44:57.900 can adapt or modify these 00:44:57.900 --> 00:45:00.000 practices within schools to make 00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:01.700 them more equitable so that 00:45:01.700 --> 00:45:03.000 schools are operating in more 00:45:03.000 --> 00:45:06.100 disproportional ways around ortigas 00:45:06.100 --> 00:45:08.200 expectations of boys being more 00:45:08.200 --> 00:45:11.500 acute than negative and 00:45:11.500 --> 00:45:13.700 or how we determine what 00:45:13.700 --> 00:45:15.800 actions or behaviours dictator stupid 00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:20.900 indicating a special need all 00:45:20.900 --> 00:45:23.000 of those specific policies examples 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:24.400 of once were reflecting the 00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:26.400 most harm we need to 00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:29.100 revisit you know what end 00:45:29.100 --> 00:45:30.600 up providing more support for 00:45:30.600 --> 00:45:33.000 teachers and administrators are round 00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:34.400 how can we implement these 00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.000 practices and more equitable ways 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:39.500 then allow boys to be 00:45:39.500 --> 00:45:42.100 more they are and not 00:45:42.100 --> 00:45:45.700 become a place that continues 00:45:45.700 --> 00:45:47.600 another contact Sandra live with 00:45:47.600 --> 00:45:49.900 her being Martin do you 00:45:49.900 --> 00:45:51.100 think we can give a 00:45:51.100 --> 00:45:54.700 very specific example that 00:45:54.700 --> 00:45:55.900 will help our listeners to 00:45:55.900 --> 00:45:57.400 Karen have you know what 00:45:57.400 --> 00:45:58.100 time is it comes to 00:45:58.100 --> 00:46:00.400 my mind is the club 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:04.000 week nine campuses between free 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.900 speech and hate speech and 00:46:05.900 --> 00:46:09.200 efforts to nab oil corresponds 00:46:09.200 --> 00:46:12.500 with Violence toward a gun 00:46:12.500 --> 00:46:13.900 on an object is used 00:46:13.900 --> 00:46:15.800 against him that boy is 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:18.900 likely to be 00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:21.000 expelled for being engaged 5 00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:22.900 Warehouse the boy who use 00:46:22.900 --> 00:46:25.900 the word my pussy but 00:46:25.900 --> 00:46:28.900 different kind consequence I am 00:46:28.900 --> 00:46:31.400 in the hotel Kathmandu no 00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:33.100 easy Solutions around it but 00:46:33.100 --> 00:46:34.900 you know we teach our 00:46:34.900 --> 00:46:36.600 boys are they long use 00:46:36.600 --> 00:46:38.400 your mouth in your in 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:39.500 your head rather than your 00:46:39.500 --> 00:46:40.500 hands in your arms and 00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:45.800 you're trying to avoid 00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:47.900 that every matter does apple 00:46:47.900 --> 00:46:50.000 music through a physical altercation 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:53.300 but the Times Where seems 00:46:53.300 --> 00:46:55.800 to me you could work 00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:56.600 is pushed over the edge 00:46:56.600 --> 00:46:57.700 and that's what he knows 00:46:57.700 --> 00:46:59.900 to do that fair jobs 00:46:59.900 --> 00:47:01.500 at what he said absolutely 00:47:01.500 --> 00:47:03.100 and I think along with 00:47:03.100 --> 00:47:04.600 that another quick example is 00:47:04.600 --> 00:47:07.100 just a young boy colour 00:47:07.100 --> 00:47:10.000 expressing excitement around on now 00:47:10.000 --> 00:47:11.800 we'll listen that's about it 00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:14.300 so it could be in 00:47:14.300 --> 00:47:16.000 a middle school classroom elementary 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:17.800 school classroom and they're about 00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:19.400 to do a volcano experiment 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:22.800 and the boys been excited 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:24.400 and demonstrating his excitement through 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:25.700 walking around in their hair 00:47:25.700 --> 00:47:28.900 and that action being perceived 00:47:28.900 --> 00:47:30.600 by the teacher as a 00:47:30.600 --> 00:47:32.500 possible threat is Gonna Knock 00:47:32.500 --> 00:47:34.400 over the volcano is going 00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:35.800 to disrupt the activity in 00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:36.600 some way and so would 00:47:36.600 --> 00:47:37.700 have to be right away 00:47:37.700 --> 00:47:40.800 or discontinue it be 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:43.000 that action that behaviour as 00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:44.600 a form of excitement that 00:47:44.600 --> 00:47:46.100 he or she could harness 00:47:46.100 --> 00:47:48.700 towards the implementation of this 00:47:48.700 --> 00:47:50.700 novel experiment that they're about 00:47:50.700 --> 00:47:53.600 to conduct social another example 00:47:53.600 --> 00:47:55.100 of leaves that example maybe 00:47:55.100 --> 00:47:57.200 also the future expectation category 00:47:57.200 --> 00:47:59.300 that then if we can 00:47:59.300 --> 00:48:01.500 shift teachers in Kings of 00:48:01.500 --> 00:48:02.600 the blood Wars a force 00:48:02.600 --> 00:48:04.000 of colour in the classrooms 00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:05.400 were more likely to see 00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:06.700 those actions as the next 00:48:06.700 --> 00:48:08.300 as an expression of excitement 00:48:08.300 --> 00:48:11.400 intellectual curiosity promise potential 00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:12.800 that then we can harness 00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:14.100 towards their learning in the 00:48:14.100 --> 00:48:15.500 learning of their of their 00:48:15.500 --> 00:48:17.600 peers in wrapping up I 00:48:17.600 --> 00:48:19.300 asked Jack and Joseph to 00:48:19.300 --> 00:48:21.100 share an encouragement for educators 00:48:21.100 --> 00:48:22.900 of boys as they consider 00:48:22.900 --> 00:48:24.800 mindfully the task of reaching 00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:27.200 teaching and succeeding with boys 00:48:27.200 --> 00:48:29.000 of colour I need to 00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:30.500 do things that I think 00:48:30.500 --> 00:48:32.300 the school should actually be 00:48:32.300 --> 00:48:33.700 thinking about this one is 00:48:33.700 --> 00:48:36.800 convenient conversations often 00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:40.100 with the boys and 00:48:40.100 --> 00:48:42.400 the boys colour and their 00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:44.800 parents interesting open form for 00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:47.100 nothing since I did as 00:48:47.100 --> 00:48:49.800 much as people are heard 00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:52.200 I think when people feel 00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:53.900 heard and I'm seeing this 00:48:53.900 --> 00:48:55.500 happening across schools across the 00:48:55.500 --> 00:48:58.400 world a whole different kind 00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:01.400 of institutional pastor can 00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:03.800 come about if we just 00:49:03.800 --> 00:49:05.800 listened carefully to our family 00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:08.100 and not listen like I'm 00:49:08.100 --> 00:49:09.600 gonna solve every problem we 00:49:09.600 --> 00:49:11.400 possibly have as much as 00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:12.500 like how do we solve 00:49:12.500 --> 00:49:14.900 this problem together and so 00:49:14.900 --> 00:49:17.100 I think convening the boys 00:49:17.100 --> 00:49:19.400 can weaning their parents and 00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:22.300 other stakeholders in ongoing conversations 00:49:22.300 --> 00:49:24.800 about life at your school's 00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:26.700 is as a boy of 00:49:26.700 --> 00:49:29.000 colour and marginalize boy will 00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:30.100 go a long way in 00:49:30.100 --> 00:49:33.100 making will change and I 00:49:33.100 --> 00:49:34.300 guess I would offer an 00:49:34.300 --> 00:49:36.500 extension of work just showed 00:49:36.500 --> 00:49:39.900 her teachers and educators probably 00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:44.800 within schools that boys 00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:49.000 are inclined to to 00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:49.900 be open to 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:57.000 I guess being seen and 00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:00.200 let 00:50:00.200 --> 00:50:03.200 curiosity rather than fear 00:50:03.200 --> 00:50:05.500 be the starting point you 00:50:05.500 --> 00:50:08.700 let you support your 00:50:08.700 --> 00:50:10.800 boys that I think that 00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.200 is one thing I see 00:50:13.200 --> 00:50:14.200 is after patch just are 00:50:14.200 --> 00:50:17.600 calluses of teachers that 00:50:17.600 --> 00:50:19.900 then are afraid in many 00:50:19.900 --> 00:50:22.600 ways to reach out and 00:50:22.600 --> 00:50:26.000 extend that that it's replacing 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:28.300 that fear and even that 00:50:28.300 --> 00:50:29.400 feel that as well meaning 00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:30.800 in that there are genuine 00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:32.300 interest and support now wow 00:50:32.300 --> 00:50:35.300 but with Curiosity and 00:50:35.300 --> 00:50:38.100 seeing the possibility and potential 00:50:38.100 --> 00:50:40.100 that they have a complaint 00:50:40.100 --> 00:50:42.800 at their school Communities so 00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:47.000 it's outrageous 00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:48.700 curiosity about the boys in 00:50:48.700 --> 00:50:52.700 the lights I'm sure you'd 00:50:52.700 --> 00:50:53.800 agree that there's so much 00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:55.000 food for thoughts in this 00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:57.700 episode am challenged in particular 00:50:57.700 --> 00:51:00.100 by Dr Joseph Nelson's encouragement 00:51:00.100 --> 00:51:02.000 for us to let curiosity 00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:04.000 rather than fear be the 00:51:04.000 --> 00:51:05.600 starting point for our support 00:51:05.600 --> 00:51:07.000 of boys of colour and 00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.300 marginalized boys and that we 00:51:09.300 --> 00:51:11.000 would all develop a courageous 00:51:11.000 --> 00:51:13.300 curiosity about the boys in 00:51:13.300 --> 00:51:16.100 our lives join us soon 00:51:16.100 --> 00:51:17.400 on part two of this 00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:19.300 episode as we connect with 00:51:19.300 --> 00:51:20.800 educators from around the world 00:51:20.800 --> 00:51:23.000 who will share practical insights 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:24.400 about how this work vans 00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:27.300 authentic expression in their contacts 00:51:31.100 --> 00:51:32.900 don't forget to send us 00:51:32.900 --> 00:51:34.100 your thoughts on a WhatsApp 00:51:34.100 --> 00:51:36.000 voice note we'd love to 00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:37.500 feature as many voices as 00:51:37.500 --> 00:51:39.300 possible on this topic in 00:51:39.300 --> 00:51:41.200 part to you can send 00:51:41.200 --> 00:51:45.800 these voice notes twoplustwo 77189 00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:49.600 11898 until 00:51:49.600 --> 00:51:51.600 our next conversation very soon 00:51:51.600 --> 00:51:53.700 especially in this challenging time 00:51:53.700 --> 00:51:55.700 keep safe and well