WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.408 --> 00:00:04.551 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. 2 00:00:05.192 --> 00:00:08.856 The JSC has closed its doors for another day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock 3 00:00:08.856 --> 00:00:08.939 shadow. 4 00:00:08.939 --> 00:00:14.825 And as always on a Thursday, I speak to the giant brains of Viv Govender from the 5 00:00:14.825 --> 00:00:16.825 award-winning RAND Swiss 6 00:00:16.825 --> 00:00:19.059 and David Shapiro from Sassfin Securities. David, I saw the 7 00:00:20.075 --> 00:00:23.497 US CPI data following yesterday's PPI data. 8 00:00:23.512 --> 00:00:26.497 The CPI came out this afternoon and the market started to... 9 00:00:26.944 --> 00:00:29.346 not roar ahead, but steadily climb. 10 00:00:29.407 --> 00:00:33.949 And the commentary was, oh, these are really good numbers for an interest rate 11 00:00:33.949 --> 00:00:34.110 cut. 12 00:00:34.110 --> 00:00:38.453 That rose from 2.7% year on year in July to 2.9% 13 00:00:38.454 --> 00:00:41.196 year on year in August. 14 00:00:41.235 --> 00:00:43.000 And the month on month was up as well. 15 00:00:43.016 --> 00:00:44.688 I don't see where the good comes in. 16 00:00:44.797 --> 00:00:46.188 To me, inflation went up. 17 00:00:46.578 --> 00:00:47.278 Am I wrong? 18 00:00:48.438 --> 00:00:53.094 Well, you know, this is the first, I mean, generally the Fed looks at inflation. 19 00:00:53.157 --> 00:00:54.844 But I think in this case, 20 00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:01.002 They're going to look at the job numbers and employment. 21 00:01:01.342 --> 00:01:06.205 And I think if you look there, even today, the claims was up quite considerably. 22 00:01:07.322 --> 00:01:11.557 In other words, more people are losing their jobs, making claims on unemployment. 23 00:01:11.963 --> 00:01:13.651 So I think this is, you know, 24 00:01:13.666 --> 00:01:20.619 the dual mandate of full employment and the other is price stability. 25 00:01:20.932 --> 00:01:22.947 or so I think... 26 00:01:23.528 --> 00:01:29.555 You know what interested me is that I thought all I hear is, yes, there's a 25 27 00:01:29.555 --> 00:01:31.555 point for September. 28 00:01:31.555 --> 00:01:33.555 I think that's in the market. 29 00:01:33.555 --> 00:01:36.379 But when I looked yesterday, it looks like there's more than one. 30 00:01:36.380 --> 00:01:40.481 It could be up to three cuts this year in the market. 31 00:01:40.559 --> 00:01:45.590 Now, whether this is going to happen or not, we're going to hear next week what 32 00:01:45.590 --> 00:01:47.590 Mr. Powell says. 33 00:01:47.590 --> 00:01:51.199 But I must say there's growing views that this is imperative for… 34 00:01:51.888 --> 00:01:58.770 you know for Powell to bring down rates and to give the other market a little bit 35 00:01:58.770 --> 00:02:00.770 or the other side of the economy a little bit 36 00:02:00.770 --> 00:02:05.712 of a kick you know as Viv says he's worried about the high levels of profits 37 00:02:05.712 --> 00:02:07.712 that he's making you know 38 00:02:07.712 --> 00:02:12.712 he feels he doesn't deserve it and he wants to give some back so what what I'm 39 00:02:12.712 --> 00:02:12.912 saying we 40 00:02:12.912 --> 00:02:18.149 can't talk about Viv's personal life David this is this is for public consumption, 41 00:02:18.149 --> 00:02:20.149 but anyway. 42 00:02:20.149 --> 00:02:20.557 Viv's laughing. 43 00:02:20.558 --> 00:02:22.436 What I'm trying to say, that's the other market. 44 00:02:22.737 --> 00:02:25.395 You know, the AR market, I mean, is just crazy. 45 00:02:25.556 --> 00:02:28.380 And we'll talk about Oracle in a few minutes' time. 46 00:02:28.458 --> 00:02:29.158 Yes, we will. 47 00:02:29.158 --> 00:02:30.739 Larry Ellison, congratulations to him. 48 00:02:30.755 --> 00:02:32.856 At 81, he's the richest man in the world. 49 00:02:32.880 --> 00:02:33.677 I sent out a tweet. 50 00:02:33.880 --> 00:02:37.099 I wonder if you could measure who the poorest man in the world is. 51 00:02:37.177 --> 00:02:41.927 But Larry Ellison, would you rather be Larry Ellison or Elon Musk? 52 00:02:41.928 --> 00:02:45.458 I suppose Elon Musk has got a lot more time to spend. 53 00:02:45.940 --> 00:02:47.622 His ill-gotten gains, isn't he? 54 00:02:48.322 --> 00:02:49.363 Viv, you're agreeing with me. 55 00:02:49.404 --> 00:02:52.027 You'd rather be Musk rather than Ellison. 56 00:02:53.367 --> 00:02:57.195 I mean, once you get to like, I mean, I even think, let's get a few hundred 57 00:02:57.195 --> 00:02:59.195 million dollars. 58 00:02:59.195 --> 00:03:00.054 The idea that you could reasonably spend that money, you know, 59 00:03:00.914 --> 00:03:06.523 in a lifetime is ridiculous because every year you're getting a few million dollars 60 00:03:06.523 --> 00:03:08.523 coming through just as, you know, passive income. 61 00:03:08.523 --> 00:03:10.882 So when you have billions, I mean, it's really going to be a case of ego. 62 00:03:10.883 --> 00:03:15.242 $400 billion is an amount of money that in a year would generate. 63 00:03:15.952 --> 00:03:19.616 like over $10 billion just in like normal like returns, you know what I mean? 64 00:03:19.858 --> 00:03:21.839 In interest returns, risk-free returns. 65 00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:25.304 So yeah, you much rather be the younger person, whatever the person's name is. 66 00:03:25.725 --> 00:03:30.804 But with Adelie Edison, the interesting thing here is that he actually owns more 67 00:03:30.804 --> 00:03:32.804 of Oracle now than when 68 00:03:32.804 --> 00:03:35.327 he started off when it was first listed because of the fact that all the share 69 00:03:35.327 --> 00:03:35.386 buybacks. 70 00:03:36.077 --> 00:03:39.374 And that's been like raising the amount that he owns in the company like over 71 00:03:39.374 --> 00:03:39.527 time. 72 00:03:39.874 --> 00:03:46.349 And the interesting thing about this is that also we are seeing the impact of, you 73 00:03:46.349 --> 00:03:48.349 know, The downstream things, 74 00:03:48.349 --> 00:03:49.312 for instance, the most valuable company in the world is really upstream. 75 00:03:49.332 --> 00:03:51.074 It's basically the guy who makes the chips. 76 00:03:51.453 --> 00:03:57.238 And then we have the people developing those chips and whatever downstream, which 77 00:03:57.238 --> 00:03:59.238 is like AI companies, like 78 00:03:59.238 --> 00:04:01.238 OpenAI and so on. 79 00:04:01.238 --> 00:04:05.113 But also the cloud companies, because Oracle is basically getting this huge 80 00:04:05.113 --> 00:04:07.113 kickoff because of the cloud demand that's coming through because of AI. 81 00:04:07.113 --> 00:04:07.157 Okay. 82 00:04:07.316 --> 00:04:10.316 So there's our Larry Ellison chat. 83 00:04:10.691 --> 00:04:11.391 Go on, David. 84 00:04:11.988 --> 00:04:12.688 You know, Mr. 85 00:04:12.688 --> 00:04:14.379 Ellison has won the America's Cup. 86 00:04:15.296 --> 00:04:16.458 Oh, he's a sailor, is he? 87 00:04:16.459 --> 00:04:17.159 That's his hobby. 88 00:04:17.880 --> 00:04:23.743 Not racing, which can take up a few billion to build these machines. 89 00:04:24.462 --> 00:04:27.165 So I think he also fancies jets. 90 00:04:27.188 --> 00:04:29.251 I don't know what else, and fighter planes and that. 91 00:04:29.313 --> 00:04:33.774 So I think there are plenty of areas where he can actually spend and enjoy it. 92 00:04:34.212 --> 00:04:37.852 Well, at least he does his on Earth rather than Mars, which is where Musk goes. 93 00:04:38.618 --> 00:04:41.040 Well, it's not in space, but it is pretty high up. 94 00:04:41.928 --> 00:04:46.030 Yeah, those yachts, you know, those America's Cup yachts are extraordinary. 95 00:04:47.210 --> 00:04:52.811 There used to be a couple of chaps with ropes and canvas and everything, but now 96 00:04:52.811 --> 00:04:54.811 it's the I mean, 97 00:04:54.811 --> 00:04:58.507 these are almost more sophisticated than a SpaceX rocket, these things. 98 00:04:58.538 --> 00:04:59.772 I don't know if you've seen them, Viv. 99 00:05:01.351 --> 00:05:05.007 Yeah, but even Davidson, it's actually a couple of hundred million at most. 100 00:05:05.507 --> 00:05:06.460 So think of it this way. 101 00:05:06.741 --> 00:05:10.960 Larry Ellison at $400 billion, and if he gets even a 5% return, 102 00:05:11.504 --> 00:05:15.470 20 billion dollars basically of uh you know of income coming in a year 103 00:05:16.398 --> 00:05:23.226 It will take not even a week for him to basically get more money than he could 104 00:05:23.226 --> 00:05:25.226 ever spend on the America's 105 00:05:25.226 --> 00:05:27.226 Cup. 106 00:05:27.226 --> 00:05:29.226 That is what I'm saying. 107 00:05:29.226 --> 00:05:31.226 When you have this kind of money, it's literally impossible to spend it. 108 00:05:31.226 --> 00:05:32.331 Every year, you have another 20 billion in the America's Cup. 109 00:05:32.332 --> 00:05:34.503 It's a problem to deal with in terms of more money coming in. 110 00:05:34.753 --> 00:05:37.284 Forgetting about how much money is making just for the stock price rising. 111 00:05:37.315 --> 00:05:39.534 So, yeah, it's a ridiculous amount of money. 112 00:05:40.081 --> 00:05:43.284 Viv, what you're going to do while I'm speaking to David briefly is... 113 00:05:43.894 --> 00:05:45.736 Work out the 400 billion at 5%. 114 00:05:46.097 --> 00:05:47.539 When does he become a trillionaire? 115 00:05:47.558 --> 00:05:48.961 That's a nice easy one for you. 116 00:05:50.101 --> 00:05:53.140 With compounding interest, when does he become a trillionaire? 117 00:05:53.203 --> 00:05:53.903 How many years? 118 00:05:53.945 --> 00:05:56.804 Will he become a trillionaire before he's 100? 119 00:05:56.843 --> 00:06:01.359 David, while Viv does that, 120 00:06:01.796 --> 00:06:05.312 can you tell me a little bit about what happened on the JSC today? 121 00:06:05.359 --> 00:06:09.812 Because we had First Rand and the shares shooting up, and we also had Discovery. 122 00:06:09.906 --> 00:06:11.062 Did you look at both of those? 123 00:06:13.147 --> 00:06:14.128 I looked at them, yeah. 124 00:06:14.129 --> 00:06:17.269 There were two results out today. 125 00:06:17.351 --> 00:06:19.093 There was First Rand and Discovery, 126 00:06:19.773 --> 00:06:24.535 which used to have a connection at some point of their existence. 127 00:06:24.597 --> 00:06:28.847 But I couldn't see anything exceptional about First Rand. 128 00:06:28.910 --> 00:06:29.610 It's good. 129 00:06:29.941 --> 00:06:31.425 It's a very solid result. 130 00:06:31.488 --> 00:06:33.910 Remember, I think they've got very good brands. 131 00:06:34.269 --> 00:06:40.628 I'm not a great supporter of the big banks, but they've got West Bank, 132 00:06:40.675 --> 00:06:41.535 they've got RMB. 133 00:06:42.138 --> 00:06:45.421 And they just produce very solid, steady profits. 134 00:06:45.482 --> 00:06:51.144 And, you know, 10% is probably at the top side of where we could have expected them. 135 00:06:51.183 --> 00:06:53.230 But, you know, it's a pretty decent earning. 136 00:06:53.933 --> 00:06:58.120 And why the markets responded the way it has, I'm not quite sure. 137 00:06:58.121 --> 00:07:02.917 I just, Lindsay, I just think markets are urging to go. 138 00:07:03.995 --> 00:07:06.949 And you can feel that they want to go. 139 00:07:07.402 --> 00:07:10.167 You know, we've seen it with gold shares, platinum shares. 140 00:07:10.618 --> 00:07:15.522 And I think it's coming down to those companies that underperformed. 141 00:07:15.963 --> 00:07:22.870 And your good friend, the very nice hedge fund manager, value fund manager, 142 00:07:22.948 --> 00:07:23.648 Mr. 143 00:07:23.648 --> 00:07:25.432 John Bickard, I think could be right. 144 00:07:26.549 --> 00:07:32.580 I honestly, you know, for whatever reason, I think that some of those companies that 145 00:07:32.580 --> 00:07:34.580 have been smashed down, 146 00:07:34.580 --> 00:07:38.018 despite the fact that the SA economy is battling along, it's really struggling. 147 00:07:39.143 --> 00:07:44.739 I think And there's a kind of urge to push these share prices up. 148 00:07:44.778 --> 00:07:46.739 And it's in line with the rest of the world. 149 00:07:48.142 --> 00:07:48.842 Interesting. 150 00:07:48.842 --> 00:07:53.157 Because I think headline earnings per share for first round was up 10% or 151 00:07:53.157 --> 00:07:53.225 something. 152 00:07:53.361 --> 00:07:54.564 It was very pedestrian. 153 00:07:54.923 --> 00:08:00.657 But I think what happened was that they performed well despite the fact they had a 154 00:08:00.657 --> 00:08:02.657 tax problem, David. 155 00:08:02.657 --> 00:08:04.657 No, I don't want to talk about tax. 156 00:08:04.657 --> 00:08:06.657 And it's still there. 157 00:08:06.657 --> 00:08:08.657 Yeah, exactly. 158 00:08:08.657 --> 00:08:10.657 That's still there. 159 00:08:10.657 --> 00:08:12.657 And they've made a provision for that. 160 00:08:12.657 --> 00:08:14.657 It may be, you know what? 161 00:08:14.657 --> 00:08:16.657 In fact, you've hit on a point that may be why the share price went in. 162 00:08:16.657 --> 00:08:18.657 In other words, they've identified, okay, we're putting away X. 163 00:08:18.657 --> 00:08:20.657 Yes, exactly. 164 00:08:20.657 --> 00:08:22.657 Before it was open-ended. 165 00:08:22.657 --> 00:08:24.657 No one was quite sure how much this could cost them. 166 00:08:24.657 --> 00:08:26.657 Yes. 167 00:08:26.657 --> 00:08:28.657 This is the claim in the U.S., this motor claim, 168 00:08:28.657 --> 00:08:33.705 that that might be a very valid reason that you've just brought up, that people, 169 00:08:33.705 --> 00:08:35.705 it's almost relief. 170 00:08:35.705 --> 00:08:35.799 Okay, we can move ahead. 171 00:08:36.549 --> 00:08:37.987 It's held us back in the past. 172 00:08:38.638 --> 00:08:43.983 There's an, we can identify how much they've set aside, which is likely the 173 00:08:43.983 --> 00:08:45.983 upper end of what a claim could be. 174 00:08:45.983 --> 00:08:47.983 Let's move ahead. 175 00:08:47.983 --> 00:08:49.983 Exactly. 176 00:08:49.983 --> 00:08:52.471 And it reminds me of what a bookmaker said to me in Johannesburg when I first came to 177 00:08:52.471 --> 00:08:54.471 Johannesburg. 178 00:08:54.471 --> 00:08:56.471 And, you know, it was very lax. 179 00:08:56.471 --> 00:08:57.159 You could run up an account and just pay when you could. 180 00:08:57.315 --> 00:09:02.221 And of course, I ran up an account and he said, Lindsay, it's been a month now. 181 00:09:02.596 --> 00:09:04.049 Pay and the pain goes away. 182 00:09:04.790 --> 00:09:08.794 And I always remember, so that's what First Round are doing in a way as well. 183 00:09:09.013 --> 00:09:15.497 Viv, could it be a 50 basis point cut next Wednesday from Powell and his team? 184 00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:18.083 Because the last time that happened actually was quite recently. 185 00:09:18.224 --> 00:09:21.739 It was during, it was right at the end of the Biden administration. 186 00:09:21.786 --> 00:09:23.646 He cut 50 basis points then. 187 00:09:24.005 --> 00:09:27.255 And I think that people said that was politically motivated. 188 00:09:27.614 --> 00:09:30.739 Could there be a political 50 basis points from the Fed, Viv? 189 00:09:31.661 --> 00:09:32.361 It's possible. 190 00:09:32.361 --> 00:09:33.017 Thank you. 191 00:09:33.046 --> 00:09:34.868 Just on first round, I mean, the results are 10%. 192 00:09:34.888 --> 00:09:36.509 But look at the P ratio, 11. 193 00:09:36.570 --> 00:09:37.849 Look at the dividend yield, 5. 194 00:09:38.310 --> 00:09:42.517 A company growing at 10%, well, that is still cheap, those ratios. 195 00:09:43.775 --> 00:09:48.259 But, yeah, looking at Powell's decision, I mean, did you guys see that million job 196 00:09:48.259 --> 00:09:50.259 miss? 197 00:09:50.259 --> 00:09:51.220 Yeah, 911,000. 198 00:09:51.221 --> 00:09:53.033 That's 76,000 a month. 199 00:09:53.361 --> 00:09:54.955 That was quite startling. 200 00:09:55.220 --> 00:09:55.920 Go on, Viv. 201 00:09:55.920 --> 00:09:56.908 Yeah. 202 00:09:56.909 --> 00:10:02.408 So that means that basically, I mean, there was a term coined at the end of 203 00:10:02.408 --> 00:10:04.408 Biden's administration called the vibe session. 204 00:10:04.408 --> 00:10:06.351 And people are saying that the numbers look great, but people just don't feel 205 00:10:06.351 --> 00:10:06.551 happy. 206 00:10:06.749 --> 00:10:10.952 It turns out when you are given a choice between people's feelings and numbers, the 207 00:10:10.952 --> 00:10:12.952 people's feelings are usually right. 208 00:10:12.952 --> 00:10:14.913 And it appears that the US economy was actually a lot weaker than people have 209 00:10:14.913 --> 00:10:15.075 been thinking, 210 00:10:15.273 --> 00:10:20.038 just because the official numbers were basically overstating how many jobs there 211 00:10:20.038 --> 00:10:22.038 were in the country. 212 00:10:22.038 --> 00:10:24.929 Like I said, 77,000 every month for like the last year, until March, basically. 213 00:10:26.052 --> 00:10:30.514 showing that if the economy is that much weaker, that it kind of makes sense that 214 00:10:30.514 --> 00:10:32.514 if the Fed was thinking, you know, 215 00:10:32.514 --> 00:10:35.651 about cutting previously to these numbers coming out, they should be much more 216 00:10:35.651 --> 00:10:37.651 convinced to cut right now. 217 00:10:37.651 --> 00:10:39.932 And maybe, like you said, a 50 basis point cut in this scenario might even be 218 00:10:39.932 --> 00:10:39.991 justified. 219 00:10:40.737 --> 00:10:41.838 Okay, well, we'll wait and see. 220 00:10:42.213 --> 00:10:48.979 Just before we go to the numbers, I want to talk about the assassination of Charlie 221 00:10:48.979 --> 00:10:50.979 Kirk last night because it was 222 00:10:50.979 --> 00:10:52.979 around about nine o'clock. 223 00:10:52.979 --> 00:10:53.823 And as soon as it came up and said, they don't know what his condition is, I knew 224 00:10:53.823 --> 00:10:55.823 he was dead. 225 00:10:55.823 --> 00:10:58.248 And the blame game has started. 226 00:10:58.249 --> 00:10:59.211 Who started what? 227 00:11:00.051 --> 00:11:03.430 We've got to stop this rhetoric, and it all started with this person. 228 00:11:04.047 --> 00:11:04.890 That means nothing. 229 00:11:04.891 --> 00:11:08.594 What it does show, and David, you're going to the States next week. 230 00:11:09.430 --> 00:11:15.453 It shows a desperately and disastrously divided nation, and it's quite dangerous, 231 00:11:15.453 --> 00:11:17.453 isn't it? 232 00:11:17.453 --> 00:11:19.453 Totally. 233 00:11:19.453 --> 00:11:23.578 You know, when it came out and I saw it, and I actually saw a video, 234 00:11:24.316 --> 00:11:27.400 Which is really of him being shot. 235 00:11:27.499 --> 00:11:33.224 Someone was taking a picture and you just see the bullet hit his neck and you see 236 00:11:33.224 --> 00:11:35.224 the blood spurt out. 237 00:11:35.224 --> 00:11:36.349 It's something that they couldn't even do in the movies. 238 00:11:36.950 --> 00:11:39.208 And it is really frightening. 239 00:11:39.614 --> 00:11:42.872 But you know, you bring it up. 240 00:11:42.997 --> 00:11:44.622 This is a divided nation. 241 00:11:45.122 --> 00:11:48.138 And where you have a divided nation like this, 242 00:11:49.404 --> 00:11:53.107 where the rhetoric is so angry and so bitter. 243 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:56.222 you're going to get individuals acting this way. 244 00:11:56.503 --> 00:12:02.990 You know, because they come frustrated that they can't get their way, I think 245 00:12:02.990 --> 00:12:04.990 they exercise their anger. 246 00:12:04.990 --> 00:12:06.990 And this is not groups. 247 00:12:06.990 --> 00:12:08.990 These are individuals. 248 00:12:08.990 --> 00:12:10.216 They exercise this anger, you know, by extreme measures, which is like 249 00:12:10.216 --> 00:12:12.216 assassinations. 250 00:12:12.216 --> 00:12:13.466 And I think, you know, as you mentioned, 251 00:12:13.482 --> 00:12:19.732 I think they will occur in a country that is kind of polarized or fragmented. 252 00:12:20.388 --> 00:12:22.544 So, and, you know, to be honest. 253 00:12:22.836 --> 00:12:25.538 The man at the top is not exactly an angel. 254 00:12:26.018 --> 00:12:26.999 You know, he's not the man. 255 00:12:27.042 --> 00:12:33.463 He himself is a man who creates or has created a lot of division 256 00:12:34.549 --> 00:12:36.487 within the population on both sides. 257 00:12:36.807 --> 00:12:43.588 So it's not only you're getting extreme right-wing 258 00:12:43.651 --> 00:12:46.182 violence, you're getting it on the left as well. 259 00:12:46.901 --> 00:12:48.760 We assume it was on the left, but yes. 260 00:12:50.260 --> 00:12:51.823 So, you know, I... 261 00:12:51.988 --> 00:12:57.095 For me, it identifies where America is. 262 00:12:57.153 --> 00:13:00.618 And the strangest thing is that today it's 9-11, hey? 263 00:13:01.321 --> 00:13:05.282 And this was the last act where actually people felt unified. 264 00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:09.259 They felt American. It lifted their spirits. 265 00:13:09.290 --> 00:13:11.946 It made them very bipartisan. 266 00:13:12.462 --> 00:13:13.852 Everybody was in the same boat. 267 00:13:13.946 --> 00:13:15.509 And it's so strange that it's come. 268 00:13:15.915 --> 00:13:17.634 And here you are 24 laters. 269 00:13:17.696 --> 00:13:20.555 You've got a completely divided country. 270 00:13:20.868 --> 00:13:25.313 Anyway, I just feel very bitter, angry about it and very sorry, you know, 271 00:13:25.434 --> 00:13:30.160 certainly that this is the way that people are venting their frustration. 272 00:13:30.277 --> 00:13:33.441 Maybe it'll be one of those things where people say, right, that's enough now. 273 00:13:34.020 --> 00:13:36.199 Let's tone it down on social media. 274 00:13:36.285 --> 00:13:41.606 I mean, that woman that we follow occasionally, David Jojo from Jers. 275 00:13:41.902 --> 00:13:46.809 I mean, she's funny and everything, but down there she deeply, deeply hates Donald 276 00:13:46.809 --> 00:13:46.915 Trump. 277 00:13:46.915 --> 00:13:47.556 Yeah. 278 00:13:47.556 --> 00:13:49.481 And that does come across maybe people like her. 279 00:13:50.096 --> 00:13:56.304 on the left and you know people like um james woods the actor on the right have 280 00:13:57.163 --> 00:14:02.945 have got to stop now viv you can come in come in here looking looking at this 281 00:14:04.413 --> 00:14:11.101 i saw a video and it's quite sad because i've got a daughter the same age and he's 282 00:14:11.101 --> 00:14:13.101 a video his daughter running up to him like you know at some previous point you 283 00:14:13.101 --> 00:14:15.023 know not a bit at that date and calling no daddy and stuff and then apparently she 284 00:14:15.023 --> 00:14:15.379 was 285 00:14:15.379 --> 00:14:21.907 at the event or his family was at the event and so i just think to myself you 286 00:14:21.907 --> 00:14:23.907 know that's it's a person with a kid a very young child a 287 00:14:23.907 --> 00:14:28.750 three-year-old uh and i think another a younger child as well uh and then from 288 00:14:28.750 --> 00:14:30.750 from that's just that's your point of view it's not these 289 00:14:30.750 --> 00:14:35.383 people you know that are killed but what i do have to say that you know the us has a 290 00:14:35.383 --> 00:14:37.383 history of this i mean people forget how dangerous the 60s were 291 00:14:37.383 --> 00:14:42.461 you killed the president you killed the president's brother you killed the number 292 00:14:42.461 --> 00:14:44.461 one civil rights leader in the country you killed uh he's number two as well 293 00:14:44.461 --> 00:14:46.969 You talk about murders were happening all the time, multiple bombings. 294 00:14:47.468 --> 00:14:51.729 The US has a very violent kind of streak through it. 295 00:14:51.730 --> 00:14:53.690 I mean, something you don't see in many other countries. 296 00:14:53.714 --> 00:14:58.870 I mean, you might have seen that in the UK with the IRA, but you're not seeing the 297 00:14:58.870 --> 00:15:00.870 Tories and the 298 00:15:00.870 --> 00:15:00.948 Labour Party going like that. 299 00:15:01.651 --> 00:15:03.854 But the US, you might be seeing something like that happen. 300 00:15:04.385 --> 00:15:10.557 And the danger here is that normally in these situations, you have people in 301 00:15:10.557 --> 00:15:12.557 charge that are going to tamp things down. 302 00:15:12.557 --> 00:15:13.198 I remember when Barack Obama had that whole kind of... 303 00:15:13.356 --> 00:15:20.069 with thoughts and prayers kind of stuff happening when uh that uh madman killed a 304 00:15:20.069 --> 00:15:22.069 whole bunch of people in a black church uh 305 00:15:22.069 --> 00:15:27.440 trump is not doing that trump is saying you know we're gonna go after the people 306 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:29.440 that did this he's ramping things up uh and 307 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:33.969 you know my fear is that you know we don't trump will push things when the economy is 308 00:15:33.969 --> 00:15:35.969 the thing that went against him. 309 00:15:35.969 --> 00:15:36.229 We see an economy that's weak at the moment. 310 00:15:37.268 --> 00:15:39.831 It'd be a very easy thing for him to do to try and push forward. 311 00:15:40.190 --> 00:15:41.307 You know, we're under threat. 312 00:15:41.448 --> 00:15:42.791 It's a dangerous kind of environment. 313 00:15:44.268 --> 00:15:46.432 If, you know, the economy is suffering and that kind of stuff. 314 00:15:46.932 --> 00:15:48.456 And that is the fear I have at the moment. 315 00:15:48.471 --> 00:15:52.815 It's that, you know, he's going to be using this not as a case of, you know, 316 00:15:53.331 --> 00:15:58.831 he's going to use this as if George Bush used it as a political event. 317 00:15:59.456 --> 00:16:05.339 And basically went after his enemies and said it was the Democrats that led all 318 00:16:05.339 --> 00:16:07.339 these, you know, foreigners into the country around 9-11. 319 00:16:07.339 --> 00:16:07.558 It could be a very different country at the moment. 320 00:16:07.581 --> 00:16:10.199 And I think, unfortunately, Trump's going to do something like that. 321 00:16:10.222 --> 00:16:10.922 Oh, gosh. 322 00:16:10.922 --> 00:16:11.722 Well, I hope not. 323 00:16:11.902 --> 00:16:15.917 OK, let's move on to things that we can try and understand. 324 00:16:15.918 --> 00:16:18.933 And that's the markets where the dollar round is 1741. 325 00:16:18.980 --> 00:16:21.636 The round really is doing so well. 326 00:16:21.667 --> 00:16:25.136 And I had an interview yesterday with somebody who's in the. 327 00:16:25.796 --> 00:16:31.743 in the bond market and the South African bond market, if you look at it compared to 328 00:16:31.743 --> 00:16:33.743 its developed market peers, has done so well. 329 00:16:33.743 --> 00:16:34.782 For example, I'll come to that in a second, the 10-year. 330 00:16:34.783 --> 00:16:36.266 But let's carry on with the currencies. 331 00:16:36.587 --> 00:16:39.469 British pound against the round 23.63. 332 00:16:39.470 --> 00:16:41.571 The euro round is 20.44. 333 00:16:41.572 --> 00:16:44.212 Euro dollar 1.1740. 334 00:16:44.213 --> 00:16:48.399 That is a euro that is a percent higher in 24 hours. 335 00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:53.259 British pound against the US dollar 1.3575. 336 00:16:53.260 --> 00:16:54.727 The pound up 1.2%. 337 00:16:54.728 --> 00:16:59.551 percent Gold price is $36.37, which is down slightly. 338 00:16:59.609 --> 00:17:02.551 The platinum price is flat at $13.98. 339 00:17:02.552 --> 00:17:06.469 And Palladium, which had a really good day yesterday, has had another good day today. 340 00:17:06.547 --> 00:17:11.328 $12.32, up $20 or 1.6%. 341 00:17:11.875 --> 00:17:13.265 Now, other commodities. 342 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:19.515 And I'm adding copper, gentlemen, to the normal, just crude oil, apart from the 343 00:17:19.515 --> 00:17:21.515 precious metals, 344 00:17:21.515 --> 00:17:21.797 because of what Harmony has done. 345 00:17:21.875 --> 00:17:27.599 And also, more importantly, the tech and Anglo merger, which is all about copper. 346 00:17:28.259 --> 00:17:32.708 But we've got West Texas crude at $62.57, down 1.7%. 347 00:17:32.802 --> 00:17:36.427 Brent crude oil at $66.52, down 1.4%. 348 00:17:36.428 --> 00:17:39.810 And the copper price is up 0.9% in New York. 349 00:17:39.935 --> 00:17:46.497 This is dollars per pound on the commodity exchange in New York, 4.583, 350 00:17:47.154 --> 00:17:53.461 which is, as I say, it's close 1% up so it's 458 And doing rather nicely. 351 00:17:53.861 --> 00:17:54.561 What else we got? 352 00:17:54.562 --> 00:17:58.906 We got the US 10-year Treasury bond, which is just about to break 4%. 353 00:17:58.907 --> 00:18:05.371 4.003 at the moment, another two and a half basis points down on the yield. 354 00:18:05.652 --> 00:18:08.879 And that's after the CPI data and the jobs data today. 355 00:18:09.723 --> 00:18:14.207 The South African 10-year, five months ago, almost to the day, 356 00:18:14.316 --> 00:18:17.723 this was 11.08, I think it was. 357 00:18:18.082 --> 00:18:20.363 It's now 9.38. 358 00:18:20.716 --> 00:18:22.598 Another 10 basis points down. 359 00:18:22.617 --> 00:18:26.080 The strength of the RAND, the strength of the bond markets overseas. 360 00:18:26.081 --> 00:18:27.662 This is an extraordinary performance. 361 00:18:29.221 --> 00:18:32.307 It's like 170 basis points in five months. 362 00:18:32.330 --> 00:18:35.229 If you'd have been long of that, well done to you. 363 00:18:35.713 --> 00:18:41.955 S&P 500 futures, 6583, up 0.7%, close to all-time record highs. 364 00:18:41.956 --> 00:18:43.580 In fact, they are all-time record highs. 365 00:18:44.143 --> 00:18:49.549 And the Bitcoin price also doing very well indeed, 114,500. 366 00:18:49.660 --> 00:18:51.823 plus a little bit of change. 367 00:18:51.923 --> 00:18:53.483 So, David, things going well. 368 00:18:53.503 --> 00:18:55.827 This is an extraordinary bull market, isn't it? 369 00:18:55.886 --> 00:18:57.206 It just keeps on going. 370 00:18:57.308 --> 00:18:58.706 I know. 371 00:18:58.847 --> 00:19:02.253 And, you know, it could continue for some time. 372 00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:09.104 I'm not, you know, one does get a little nervous, but you can feel the momentum, 373 00:19:09.104 --> 00:19:11.104 you know, 374 00:19:11.104 --> 00:19:13.104 building up and ready to go. 375 00:19:13.104 --> 00:19:14.386 And a lot depends on what Powell says. 376 00:19:14.448 --> 00:19:15.979 But if he says the right thing. 377 00:19:16.652 --> 00:19:19.274 and he moves towards reducing rates, 378 00:19:19.334 --> 00:19:23.739 then this can continue and can broaden out. 379 00:19:24.098 --> 00:19:28.043 The one thing, this is still very much an AI market. 380 00:19:28.707 --> 00:19:30.707 I use AI in a much broader sense. 381 00:19:31.106 --> 00:19:37.215 It's still driven by 20-odd tech companies or maybe a little more, 382 00:19:37.293 --> 00:19:38.309 some of the smaller ones. 383 00:19:38.793 --> 00:19:44.496 We haven't quite seen it migrate or go into… 384 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:47.621 other areas of the market. 385 00:19:47.722 --> 00:19:51.865 So for the first time actually today with the CPI, 386 00:19:52.287 --> 00:19:59.057 I have seen companies like Walmart and JP Morgan, Visa and those companies, Costco 387 00:19:59.057 --> 00:20:01.057 and that pick up as well. 388 00:20:01.057 --> 00:20:03.932 But I think that's starting to now reflect lower rates. 389 00:20:04.338 --> 00:20:08.197 But look, after Oracle's numbers yesterday, 390 00:20:08.307 --> 00:20:13.010 where I have never in my life seen a company of that magnitude. 391 00:20:13.604 --> 00:20:15.151 This wasn't a small company. 392 00:20:15.664 --> 00:20:17.026 put on 40 percent. 393 00:20:17.227 --> 00:20:19.611 It wasn't as though it was at the bottom end of the market. 394 00:20:20.033 --> 00:20:25.279 This was already had a very high cap, you know, it was in maybe the top 20 shares on 395 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:25.401 the S&P. 396 00:20:25.904 --> 00:20:28.068 And I'm just absolutely astonished. 397 00:20:28.069 --> 00:20:33.490 But what and I'd love Viv's view on this, because when you look at what they're 398 00:20:33.490 --> 00:20:33.550 saying, 399 00:20:33.550 --> 00:20:35.537 the amount of money that's going to be spent. 400 00:20:36.020 --> 00:20:39.061 On their cloud, you know, it's an astonishing outlook. 401 00:20:39.100 --> 00:20:44.700 And I think that has given the AI market or the technology market just another 402 00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:46.700 boost, another lift. 403 00:20:46.700 --> 00:20:46.965 Viv, that's your invitation. 404 00:20:48.926 --> 00:20:50.106 Look, I mean, it kind of makes sense. 405 00:20:50.465 --> 00:20:55.739 If you're going to have a $4.5 trillion company making the chips, the guys that 406 00:20:55.739 --> 00:20:57.739 are going to be buying the chips have to make more money than that. 407 00:20:57.739 --> 00:20:59.739 You know what I mean? 408 00:20:59.739 --> 00:21:01.223 And then the guys that are going to be using these clouds and stuff have to make 409 00:21:01.223 --> 00:21:03.223 more money than that. 410 00:21:03.223 --> 00:21:05.223 We need to start seeing... 411 00:21:05.223 --> 00:21:10.054 huge huge gdp increases to justify these things here and the fact that we are 412 00:21:10.054 --> 00:21:12.054 seeing demand coming through as strongly as you are for cloud gives me some hope 413 00:21:12.054 --> 00:21:14.054 that 414 00:21:14.054 --> 00:21:16.999 we are going to be seeing uh you know these these things coming through and it 415 00:21:16.999 --> 00:21:18.999 also makes me wonder as well you know if you look at um the why 416 00:21:18.999 --> 00:21:21.359 did the jobs numbers miss that much because the jobs numbers are a sample 417 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.359 samples 418 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:27.906 only work when the underlying entity has not changed you know what i mean so if you 419 00:21:27.906 --> 00:21:29.906 take a sample of something it correlates within the state of the underlying entity 420 00:21:29.906 --> 00:21:30.734 but if the underlying entity has changed in some fundamental way. 421 00:21:31.144 --> 00:21:33.845 samples no longer give you the same kind of accuracy. 422 00:21:34.304 --> 00:21:35.984 And it makes me wonder whether or not the U.S. 423 00:21:36.027 --> 00:21:42.968 economy is changing so dramatically in a way that sampling is no longer working as 424 00:21:42.968 --> 00:21:43.090 well because 425 00:21:43.226 --> 00:21:45.250 the underlying economy has changed fundamentally. 426 00:21:45.570 --> 00:21:52.562 And I think that could be something also indicating that AI may be feeding into the 427 00:21:52.562 --> 00:21:54.562 economy faster than people have been anticipating. 428 00:21:54.562 --> 00:21:57.609 Does it also tell you that there's a lot of money going into mutual funds in the 429 00:21:57.609 --> 00:21:59.609 United States? 430 00:21:59.609 --> 00:22:00.412 in order to fuel this market? 431 00:22:00.433 --> 00:22:02.013 Because where's the market coming from? 432 00:22:02.552 --> 00:22:03.853 Viv, stay with you on this one. 433 00:22:04.095 --> 00:22:04.795 What do you think? 434 00:22:05.814 --> 00:22:10.892 No, but I mean, the mutual funds aren't buying Oracle's cloud services, you know 435 00:22:10.892 --> 00:22:11.195 what I mean? 436 00:22:12.033 --> 00:22:14.212 So there is actually something happening there. 437 00:22:14.595 --> 00:22:21.455 There is actually some underlying demand coming through that Oracle thinks that 438 00:22:21.455 --> 00:22:23.455 it's going to be seeing this huge 439 00:22:23.455 --> 00:22:25.455 kind of cloud demand at the moment. 440 00:22:25.455 --> 00:22:27.455 So I do think that there is something happening. 441 00:22:27.455 --> 00:22:29.455 I mean, businesses... 442 00:22:29.455 --> 00:22:31.455 Maybe they are overdoing it. 443 00:22:31.455 --> 00:22:33.455 Maybe it's dot-com part two. 444 00:22:33.455 --> 00:22:36.229 But at the moment, it does appear that there is some kind of use case out there 445 00:22:36.229 --> 00:22:38.229 that businesses are 446 00:22:38.229 --> 00:22:41.378 seeing or someone is seeing that they want to be using Oracle's cloud to basically 447 00:22:41.378 --> 00:22:43.378 utilize AI. 448 00:22:43.378 --> 00:22:47.174 Well, anyway, it's all going to fall in the heat when the electricity gets turned 449 00:22:47.174 --> 00:22:49.174 off because 450 00:22:49.174 --> 00:22:51.096 your companies that you're both invested in are using far too much electricity. 451 00:22:51.404 --> 00:22:54.405 And I saw a chap at the World Economic Forum on their website, 452 00:22:54.445 --> 00:23:01.009 and he came up with a very plausible argument as to why they're going to go 453 00:23:01.009 --> 00:23:03.009 into space and put these giant 454 00:23:03.009 --> 00:23:04.486 solar panels and beam it back down to Earth. 455 00:23:04.525 --> 00:23:11.509 And that will solve the problem because there's not enough space on Earth to put 456 00:23:11.509 --> 00:23:13.509 the power facilities in 457 00:23:13.509 --> 00:23:15.509 order to power AI. 458 00:23:15.509 --> 00:23:17.509 So that's solved. 459 00:23:17.509 --> 00:23:19.509 Okay. 460 00:23:19.509 --> 00:23:21.509 On the JSC today, the first Rand share price was the top. 461 00:23:21.509 --> 00:23:22.196 performer of the top shares, 6.1% higher. 462 00:23:22.754 --> 00:23:29.082 African Rainbow Minerals up 3%, Life Healthcare up 2.6%, and AVI up 2.3% on the 463 00:23:29.082 --> 00:23:29.260 downside. 464 00:23:29.403 --> 00:23:34.731 This is extraordinary, because David, we spoke about Discovery after their trading 465 00:23:34.731 --> 00:23:36.731 update the other day. 466 00:23:36.731 --> 00:23:39.715 And the trading update was really good, and the share price jumped 10% or 467 00:23:39.715 --> 00:23:41.715 something like that. 468 00:23:41.715 --> 00:23:43.715 Well, it's fallen around 10%. 469 00:23:43.715 --> 00:23:48.637 In fact, it's fallen on the results 9.25%. So what are they seeing in the results 470 00:23:48.637 --> 00:23:50.637 that weren't in the trading update. 471 00:23:50.637 --> 00:23:51.570 And there's miscommunication there from their PR company. 472 00:23:51.992 --> 00:23:55.113 And I think that's very naughty or remiss of them. 473 00:23:55.355 --> 00:23:56.055 Go on. 474 00:23:58.495 --> 00:24:04.105 I was one who was captivated by the trading update, particularly what they 475 00:24:04.105 --> 00:24:06.105 were doing in the UK. 476 00:24:06.105 --> 00:24:10.136 But they do say now that I hate the word headwinds, but they use the word 477 00:24:10.136 --> 00:24:10.150 headwinds. 478 00:24:11.074 --> 00:24:13.855 They're finding both headwinds in China. 479 00:24:14.011 --> 00:24:16.772 and you know in the UK and this is where the growth came. 480 00:24:17.053 --> 00:24:19.233 If you look at the local business, things are down. 481 00:24:19.354 --> 00:24:23.932 You know, in other words, they're not selling as many policies now as they did. 482 00:24:23.971 --> 00:24:27.276 All the growth in policies is beginning to slow down considerably. 483 00:24:27.792 --> 00:24:34.331 So what they call their, what's it, premium income, their, you know, 484 00:24:34.503 --> 00:24:35.800 annualized premium income. 485 00:24:36.096 --> 00:24:37.581 And that's starting to come down. 486 00:24:37.675 --> 00:24:43.040 So when you look at, you know, their health, life, invest and insure, 487 00:24:43.201 --> 00:24:46.143 all of those are slowing down, even though the numbers were good. 488 00:24:46.604 --> 00:24:49.026 I think that scared people. 489 00:24:49.108 --> 00:24:54.233 But new business volumes, we see it in all the insurers, are very, 490 00:24:54.334 --> 00:25:00.131 very difficult to grow in an environment which you point out is not growing. 491 00:25:00.412 --> 00:25:06.459 The other one is that the bank, the bank's still chewing cash, another 68 million 492 00:25:06.459 --> 00:25:08.459 rand loss or something. 493 00:25:08.459 --> 00:25:10.459 I don't know what the exact number was. 494 00:25:10.459 --> 00:25:12.459 So I was disappointed. 495 00:25:12.459 --> 00:25:15.426 I was quite, you know, I was quite optimistic for the first time in a long 496 00:25:15.426 --> 00:25:17.426 time when I saw the update. 497 00:25:17.426 --> 00:25:20.668 But when you dig down into the numbers, I think there are a few obstacles that they 498 00:25:20.668 --> 00:25:22.668 have to get through. 499 00:25:22.668 --> 00:25:23.176 To me, that bank was an ego driven folly. 500 00:25:23.230 --> 00:25:25.301 But anyway, that's just me. 501 00:25:25.441 --> 00:25:27.582 Anyway, other companies not doing so well. 502 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.551 Tungela down six and a quarter percent. 503 00:25:29.613 --> 00:25:31.207 Bytes down nearly four percent. 504 00:25:31.301 --> 00:25:34.144 Pan African Resources down two and a half and Northam's down. 505 00:25:34.534 --> 00:25:35.675 2.1%. 506 00:25:35.676 --> 00:25:38.997 Okay, before we go to the indices, I've got to ask you a question, you two. 507 00:25:39.520 --> 00:25:41.341 And Viv, I'll start with you on this one. 508 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:46.845 A friend of mine phoned me up today and she said, my company's issued what they 509 00:25:46.845 --> 00:25:48.845 call a code red. 510 00:25:48.845 --> 00:25:48.891 They've already been cutting back this company. 511 00:25:48.892 --> 00:25:50.891 It's a giant global conglomerate. 512 00:25:51.126 --> 00:25:55.548 The share price has been doing horribly over the year, bucking the bull market 513 00:25:55.548 --> 00:25:57.548 trend. 514 00:25:57.548 --> 00:25:59.548 They've now issued a code red. 515 00:25:59.548 --> 00:26:00.735 They're forcing people to come back to work four days a week. 516 00:26:01.014 --> 00:26:06.200 I think trying to put people off and saying, OK, I'll leave because they they 517 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.200 want to cut costs. 518 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:12.262 And even silly things like 50 euros a month that they would give out as 519 00:26:13.184 --> 00:26:14.231 fitness benefits. 520 00:26:14.232 --> 00:26:20.715 You know, if you can prove that you've improved your fitness via your app on your 521 00:26:20.715 --> 00:26:22.715 watch or something, 522 00:26:22.715 --> 00:26:23.278 you get this 50 euro voucher from a shop. 523 00:26:23.356 --> 00:26:24.543 That's all gone. 524 00:26:24.684 --> 00:26:25.731 All benefits gone. 525 00:26:26.153 --> 00:26:26.871 Four days a week. 526 00:26:26.934 --> 00:26:28.137 Come back into the office. 527 00:26:28.478 --> 00:26:31.861 code red and we're cutting back in all our European centers. 528 00:26:32.162 --> 00:26:33.621 Would you say that's good? 529 00:26:33.684 --> 00:26:38.770 So I must have a look at this share price because they're getting rid of the fat and 530 00:26:38.770 --> 00:26:40.770 therefore it'll go up. 531 00:26:40.770 --> 00:26:42.590 Or would you say this is a death knell for this company? 532 00:26:43.113 --> 00:26:44.355 Viv, what would you say? 533 00:26:44.395 --> 00:26:46.355 Are you an optimist or a pessimist? 534 00:26:47.824 --> 00:26:49.215 A company like that, I'd be a pessimist. 535 00:26:49.293 --> 00:26:53.855 I like a company that has a growing revenue, 536 00:26:53.856 --> 00:26:56.590 not a company that's trying to improve by cutting costs. 537 00:26:56.870 --> 00:27:03.177 Unless it's something like, you know, where you're basically spending tens of 538 00:27:03.177 --> 00:27:05.177 billions of dollars on the thing that only marks a couple of weeks. 539 00:27:05.177 --> 00:27:08.181 Yeah, stop cutting your nose off and therefore you'll basically feel a lot 540 00:27:08.181 --> 00:27:08.522 better. 541 00:27:08.540 --> 00:27:11.181 Okay, so that's a sell from Viv. 542 00:27:12.688 --> 00:27:15.790 David, I tend to think, sorry Viv, you're breaking up a little bit there. 543 00:27:15.806 --> 00:27:16.743 I didn't mean to interrupt. 544 00:27:16.790 --> 00:27:19.852 David, I think you're a pessimist with Viv on this one. 545 00:27:21.837 --> 00:27:24.821 Yeah, I'm very happy at home. 546 00:27:25.394 --> 00:27:26.594 I love to go into the office. 547 00:27:26.634 --> 00:27:27.334 I go in there. 548 00:27:27.334 --> 00:27:34.212 The problem is that I do about a tenth of the work and I'm far more efficient at 549 00:27:34.275 --> 00:27:36.017 home than I am in the office. 550 00:27:36.134 --> 00:27:39.994 I realize that I'm being selfish because I'm not passing. 551 00:27:40.220 --> 00:27:44.501 I'm not communicating with young people and not mentoring them and so on. 552 00:27:44.783 --> 00:27:51.533 There's time to do that, but I'm enjoying home and I promise you, Lindsay, I'm 100% 553 00:27:51.533 --> 00:27:53.533 more efficient. 554 00:27:53.533 --> 00:27:54.988 then, well, that's a bit of an exaggeration at my age. 555 00:27:55.029 --> 00:27:56.890 But, I mean, even now, here you are. 556 00:27:57.851 --> 00:28:01.054 Instead of going home now, as we come off the conversation, 557 00:28:01.117 --> 00:28:07.343 I'm going to just go through a few points and finish off and I'll be finished in 558 00:28:07.343 --> 00:28:09.343 about 6.30 or something and then 559 00:28:09.343 --> 00:28:11.343 that's it. 560 00:28:11.343 --> 00:28:13.343 Whereas I would never do that at the office. 561 00:28:13.343 --> 00:28:15.343 Okay, well, thanks for your domestic arrangements. 562 00:28:15.343 --> 00:28:18.937 But what I was really asking was would you be a buyer or a seller of the company that 563 00:28:18.937 --> 00:28:20.937 I just described? 564 00:28:20.937 --> 00:28:22.937 You're a seller as well. 565 00:28:22.937 --> 00:28:24.937 Okay. 566 00:28:24.937 --> 00:28:26.937 Sorry for that long window. 567 00:28:26.937 --> 00:28:28.937 No, no, I enjoyed it. 568 00:28:28.937 --> 00:28:29.753 I've got this lovely picture in my mind now of you sitting down and doing a few 569 00:28:29.753 --> 00:28:31.753 points and going off for a run or something, 570 00:28:31.753 --> 00:28:31.995 getting a takeaway, whatever it is. 571 00:28:32.456 --> 00:28:33.156 But very nice. 572 00:28:33.156 --> 00:28:33.781 Thank you. 573 00:28:33.781 --> 00:28:35.800 Okay, so we've got two sellers on this one. 574 00:28:35.902 --> 00:28:37.823 I'll send you the chart of the company. 575 00:28:38.589 --> 00:28:39.289 Sorry, go on. 576 00:28:39.289 --> 00:28:43.011 David says that he's more efficient, but the point about him passing on knowledge, 577 00:28:43.448 --> 00:28:49.027 I would bet the amount of value David adds by being in the office and just, like, you 578 00:28:49.027 --> 00:28:51.027 know, shooting the breeze with young people is... 579 00:28:51.027 --> 00:28:53.027 Quite vast, actually. 580 00:28:53.027 --> 00:28:55.823 Imagine the experience these guys are getting by talking to him and 581 00:28:55.823 --> 00:28:57.823 understanding the history of the market, et cetera. 582 00:28:57.823 --> 00:29:01.851 And it may seem like intangible, but I mean, that is why the company has a 583 00:29:01.851 --> 00:29:02.090 future. 584 00:29:02.090 --> 00:29:04.015 It's because of that tradition of passing information. 585 00:29:04.374 --> 00:29:10.819 And being at home, you do your own KPIs, yes, but the benefit to the company that 586 00:29:10.819 --> 00:29:12.819 they lose out for not having you actually just 587 00:29:12.819 --> 00:29:14.819 passing information. 588 00:29:14.819 --> 00:29:16.819 It's going to be quite large. 589 00:29:16.819 --> 00:29:17.132 Well, yeah, the youngsters are boring today. 590 00:29:17.974 --> 00:29:19.916 Hey, hey Lindsay. 591 00:29:19.917 --> 00:29:21.378 Oh God, I can't stand the... 592 00:29:21.516 --> 00:29:27.501 I really can't stand young people and it's obviously because we're getting old, but I 593 00:29:27.501 --> 00:29:29.501 can't stand them. 594 00:29:29.501 --> 00:29:30.587 They're not the same people that we were, David. 595 00:29:30.704 --> 00:29:31.704 I don't know about Viv. 596 00:29:33.009 --> 00:29:34.032 He's a dark horse. 597 00:29:36.110 --> 00:29:39.610 I agree with you, they're terribly boring, but Viv makes a very good point. 598 00:29:40.735 --> 00:29:43.235 They should wheel out old people like you occasionally. 599 00:29:43.526 --> 00:29:48.292 to come in and have a chat and say things like, I remember in the old days we used 600 00:29:48.292 --> 00:29:50.292 to do this and this and this. 601 00:29:50.292 --> 00:29:51.514 And I am being facetious, of course, but it is terribly interesting. 602 00:29:51.776 --> 00:29:55.581 I mean, that's why I love talking to you. 603 00:29:56.698 --> 00:29:57.737 We do it twice a week. 604 00:29:58.182 --> 00:29:59.885 And usually I learn something. 605 00:30:00.338 --> 00:30:01.479 There's some wisdom there. 606 00:30:03.885 --> 00:30:06.870 You know, Lindsay, everybody's going to the Coldplay concert. 607 00:30:06.871 --> 00:30:08.557 They don't even know who Coldplay is. 608 00:30:08.938 --> 00:30:09.638 It is. 609 00:30:09.638 --> 00:30:10.359 They don't even know who Asus is. 610 00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:12.664 So I say, why do you want to go to the concerts? 611 00:30:12.665 --> 00:30:14.504 You don't even know who these people are. 612 00:30:16.207 --> 00:30:17.703 Yeah, it's very true. 613 00:30:20.187 --> 00:30:21.289 I stopped going to my... 614 00:30:21.290 --> 00:30:23.015 I listened to him on Spotify. 615 00:30:23.070 --> 00:30:27.609 Anyway, I stopped going to my hairdresser because the drivel that she comes out 616 00:30:27.609 --> 00:30:27.903 with. 617 00:30:27.903 --> 00:30:32.406 Just to shut her up, I said, I'd say something like, did you hear about Charlie 618 00:30:32.406 --> 00:30:34.406 Cook? 619 00:30:34.406 --> 00:30:36.406 And she'll say, who's that? 620 00:30:36.406 --> 00:30:38.406 Is he with Coldplay or is he... 621 00:30:38.943 --> 00:30:40.203 Is he the drummer in Watson? 622 00:30:40.383 --> 00:30:42.922 No, it's the youth of today. 623 00:30:44.383 --> 00:30:45.367 I fear for the future. 624 00:30:45.688 --> 00:30:47.461 David, closing indices, please. 625 00:30:48.102 --> 00:30:48.802 If you've got them. 626 00:30:48.922 --> 00:30:49.805 Yeah, yeah, come on now. 627 00:30:49.806 --> 00:30:52.203 By talking so much, my computer is logged out. 628 00:30:53.125 --> 00:30:55.203 Even your computer turned off. 629 00:30:55.281 --> 00:30:58.469 Okay. 630 00:30:58.470 --> 00:31:01.235 Well, look, I can help a little bit on this one. 631 00:31:01.236 --> 00:31:01.936 I can help, yeah. 632 00:31:01.936 --> 00:31:02.622 How can you? 633 00:31:02.622 --> 00:31:03.531 Is it on again now? 634 00:31:04.318 --> 00:31:09.543 Because it was a good day on the JSC, despite the fact that the commodities were 635 00:31:09.543 --> 00:31:09.884 down. 636 00:31:09.965 --> 00:31:10.665 Go on. 637 00:31:10.665 --> 00:31:12.063 You mentioned resources were down. 638 00:31:12.649 --> 00:31:15.469 There was a little bit of easing off there. 639 00:31:15.493 --> 00:31:16.211 Nothing serious. 640 00:31:16.212 --> 00:31:23.000 The resource index down 0.7%. The overall index up a third of a percent, 103.927. 641 00:31:23.032 --> 00:31:24.360 I don't know whether this is new records. 642 00:31:24.391 --> 00:31:25.672 I think we're making it every day. 643 00:31:26.032 --> 00:31:31.297 Financial strong, I think, picked up with first round lifting the index. 644 00:31:31.329 --> 00:31:33.266 It has a big weight in the banking index. 645 00:31:33.858 --> 00:31:37.678 And, you know, financials, I mean, industrial is pretty strong as well. 646 00:31:38.057 --> 00:31:42.276 That's despite the RAND improving, you know, which takes some of the edge off. 647 00:31:42.557 --> 00:31:46.440 The other one we must watch is I see property going up every day. 648 00:31:46.464 --> 00:31:47.323 Yeah. 649 00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:50.979 Every day that property market is improving as those rates come down. 650 00:31:51.026 --> 00:31:52.745 You mentioned the long rate coming down. 651 00:31:53.057 --> 00:31:57.979 You know, as that come down, it makes some of the property companies a lot more 652 00:31:57.979 --> 00:31:59.979 attractive, 653 00:31:59.979 --> 00:32:00.198 even though they're still battling along at the moment. 654 00:32:00.604 --> 00:32:02.964 Growth point numbers came out yesterday, of course. 655 00:32:02.965 --> 00:32:08.466 shit Okay, so, and the overall indices were what, please, David, on the close? 656 00:32:08.467 --> 00:32:12.149 So, the all-share index was at 103.927. 657 00:32:12.188 --> 00:32:13.626 That was up a third of a percent. 658 00:32:13.891 --> 00:32:16.485 The top 40, 96529, 659 00:32:16.548 --> 00:32:20.930 also up 0.3%. 660 00:32:20.931 --> 00:32:21.631 Very good. 661 00:32:21.631 --> 00:32:21.897 Okay, value traffic. 662 00:32:22.290 --> 00:32:22.990 Volumes were down. 663 00:32:22.990 --> 00:32:25.227 Yeah, volumes have been very high. 664 00:32:25.712 --> 00:32:32.149 That Valterra deal, you know, the Anglo-American getting out of their full. 665 00:32:32.998 --> 00:32:34.099 You know, they're holding. 666 00:32:35.060 --> 00:32:41.648 Those shares have been circulating and trading up and down all over the place and 667 00:32:41.648 --> 00:32:43.648 have picked up, you know, 668 00:32:43.648 --> 00:32:45.648 made volumes up pretty high. 669 00:32:45.648 --> 00:32:49.890 Again, even if you look now at Goldfields, First Rand, Angler Gold, Naspers, Feltera, 670 00:32:49.890 --> 00:32:51.890 all the main traders, 671 00:32:51.890 --> 00:32:53.890 it wasn't as big as it has been. 672 00:32:53.890 --> 00:32:55.890 But the volumes have been pretty brisk. 673 00:32:55.890 --> 00:32:57.890 Very good. 674 00:32:57.890 --> 00:32:59.890 Okay, it'll be quiet until next week. 675 00:32:59.890 --> 00:33:00.795 Oh, next week, you know what, I've got to, I'm not here next week. 676 00:33:00.796 --> 00:33:02.197 So we'll take a break. 677 00:33:02.416 --> 00:33:09.326 And we'll be, it'll be the week after that we resume and the world will be a 678 00:33:09.326 --> 00:33:11.326 different place. 679 00:33:11.326 --> 00:33:13.326 Then I can promise you that. 680 00:33:13.326 --> 00:33:15.326 David, thank you very much for your time. 681 00:33:15.326 --> 00:33:16.256 David Shapiro is from Sasson Securities, Viv from RAM Swiss. 682 00:33:16.303 --> 00:33:17.724 And that was the five o'clock shadow. 683 00:33:18.178 --> 00:33:23.490 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and 684 00:33:23.490 --> 00:33:25.490 various contributors. 685 00:33:25.490 --> 00:33:29.608 and do not reflect the policy, position, or opinion of any other agency, 686 00:33:29.608 --> 00:33:31.608 organization, employer, 687 00:33:31.608 --> 00:33:33.811 or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 688 00:33:34.272 --> 00:33:41.233 Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the position of any other 689 00:33:41.233 --> 00:33:43.233 entity other than the speaker or the author. 690 00:33:43.233 --> 00:33:47.405 And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to 691 00:33:47.405 --> 00:33:49.405 change, revision, 692 00:33:49.405 --> 00:33:49.545 and rethinking at any time. 693 00:33:49.858 --> 00:33:52.280 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.