WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.404 --> 00:00:04.550 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. 2 00:00:05.050 --> 00:00:08.694 The JSA has closed its doors for another day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock 3 00:00:08.694 --> 00:00:08.773 shadow. 4 00:00:08.773 --> 00:00:14.616 And as always on a Thursday, I speak to Viv Govender from RAND Swiss and David 5 00:00:14.616 --> 00:00:16.616 Shapiro from SAS for Insecurities, 6 00:00:16.616 --> 00:00:18.616 both in Johannesburg. 7 00:00:18.616 --> 00:00:21.686 It's results season at the moment, gentlemen, so you're gearing up for your 8 00:00:21.686 --> 00:00:23.686 particular portfolios. 9 00:00:23.686 --> 00:00:23.983 And there's a couple of stocks that I want to talk about. 10 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:26.233 And I'll start with you, Viv, with two of them. 11 00:00:26.234 --> 00:00:28.999 And David will talk about at least one of them. 12 00:00:29.320 --> 00:00:30.742 Actually, no, he'll talk about both. 13 00:00:30.862 --> 00:00:35.004 There's a company called ASML Viv came up with numbers yesterday. 14 00:00:35.106 --> 00:00:40.352 Market didn't like the sort of the after results chatter, if you like. 15 00:00:40.367 --> 00:00:43.836 I think the share price was down 8% in euros at one stage. 16 00:00:43.837 --> 00:00:50.758 And the other one is a company that I'd never heard of called TSMC in the United 17 00:00:50.758 --> 00:00:52.758 States, which came out with results today, 18 00:00:52.758 --> 00:00:54.758 which were good. 19 00:00:54.758 --> 00:00:56.758 Maybe you want to give us your thoughts on both of those. 20 00:00:56.758 --> 00:00:58.758 It must have been TSMC. 21 00:00:58.758 --> 00:01:00.758 It's literally the most important company. 22 00:01:00.758 --> 00:01:02.563 It is effectively, I think, 23 00:01:03.385 --> 00:01:07.447 ASML and TSMC are the two irreplaceable companies and there's nothing in the world 24 00:01:07.447 --> 00:01:09.447 that does what they do. 25 00:01:09.447 --> 00:01:09.471 And people have tried. 26 00:01:09.472 --> 00:01:15.760 The Chinese government would give untold billions of dollars to be able to 27 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:17.760 replicate TSMC or ASML. 28 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:19.760 But yeah, it's interesting. 29 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:21.682 TSMC's results, I think they're like a 60 plus percent improvement in earnings. 30 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:25.244 The market liked it a bit better than the ASML results. 31 00:01:25.704 --> 00:01:29.028 ASML, for some unknown reason, has lagged the market significantly. 32 00:01:30.069 --> 00:01:36.354 It is the foundational AI company, effectively, because it makes the chips, 33 00:01:36.354 --> 00:01:38.354 the machines that are used to make the chips, that everything else depends on. 34 00:01:38.354 --> 00:01:40.877 If NVIDIA is worth $4 trillion, NVIDIA can't make its chips unless ASML makes 35 00:01:40.877 --> 00:01:42.877 those machines. 36 00:01:42.877 --> 00:01:43.127 And nobody else in the world can make those machines. 37 00:01:43.518 --> 00:01:46.752 Like I said, I mean, this is the most complicated machine in the world. 38 00:01:46.862 --> 00:01:50.987 This is what I thought, Viv, when I heard it, because David has always told me about 39 00:01:50.987 --> 00:01:51.202 this. 40 00:01:51.202 --> 00:01:52.987 And I thought, so in other words, this is a proper... 41 00:01:53.296 --> 00:02:00.283 monopoly and if nobody after all this time has managed to crack it in other words 42 00:02:00.283 --> 00:02:02.283 make the same machines that ASML 43 00:02:02.283 --> 00:02:06.993 does then why on earth did they come out with this slightly bearish outlook 44 00:02:06.993 --> 00:02:08.993 yesterday but they're worried about 45 00:02:08.993 --> 00:02:13.931 basically no tariffs and so on with regards to what's been happening look at 46 00:02:13.931 --> 00:02:15.931 the share price is 47 00:02:15.931 --> 00:02:21.259 a little bit here from the lows but look it is a case of I I think the market, for 48 00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:21.490 some reason, 49 00:02:21.490 --> 00:02:22.259 has never priced ASML. 50 00:02:23.221 --> 00:02:25.343 as if it is so foundational to the world economy. 51 00:02:25.602 --> 00:02:29.847 I mean, TSMC, the share price has been ballistic over the last several years. 52 00:02:30.831 --> 00:02:35.589 In India, the first multi, a $4 trillion company, basically. 53 00:02:36.534 --> 00:02:42.604 But for some reason, ASML, either because of pricing or whatever, 54 00:02:43.073 --> 00:02:45.808 never is able to get the same kind of valuations coming through. 55 00:02:47.151 --> 00:02:52.457 But like I said, if you're looking at AI and I have an AI portfolio, It was one of 56 00:02:52.457 --> 00:02:54.457 the first companies I put into it, 57 00:02:54.457 --> 00:02:55.379 and it's been a total laggard since I bought it for the last two years. 58 00:02:57.097 --> 00:02:59.316 I mean, I'm just doing an AIS presentation today. 59 00:02:59.317 --> 00:03:00.017 I'm not going to brag in here. 60 00:03:00.017 --> 00:03:03.097 We've done 70-plus percent in the last, what do you call this, two years. 61 00:03:03.098 --> 00:03:03.798 Very good. 62 00:03:03.798 --> 00:03:07.785 It's actually a two-year anniversary. 63 00:03:07.786 --> 00:03:08.486 Well done. 64 00:03:08.486 --> 00:03:10.816 And we've done, I think, 19 percent this year alone. 65 00:03:11.175 --> 00:03:17.175 And ASML, despite being one of the first things I bought, that and Tesla are both 66 00:03:17.175 --> 00:03:17.360 big, 67 00:03:17.629 --> 00:03:18.925 huge laggards in my portfolio. 68 00:03:19.129 --> 00:03:20.066 It's quite sad, actually. 69 00:03:20.724 --> 00:03:21.424 Okay. 70 00:03:21.424 --> 00:03:23.126 But you'll hold on to it, will you? 71 00:03:23.127 --> 00:03:23.827 I have to. 72 00:03:24.029 --> 00:03:26.091 I just think eventually they have to result in something. 73 00:03:27.212 --> 00:03:29.591 And like I said, they're so foundational and so monopolistic. 74 00:03:30.474 --> 00:03:33.779 It just does not make sense how they can't translate that into earnings. 75 00:03:37.099 --> 00:03:42.208 So maybe investors don't like the fact they're in Eindhoven rather than in 76 00:03:42.208 --> 00:03:44.208 Silicon Valley. 77 00:03:44.208 --> 00:03:44.302 You know what? 78 00:03:45.365 --> 00:03:47.786 The Europeans are conservative. 79 00:03:48.676 --> 00:03:50.578 And it's even like Nova Nordisk. 80 00:03:50.579 --> 00:03:54.640 You know, when you talk to European companies, they're not over-exuberant. 81 00:03:54.641 --> 00:03:59.148 They haven't got the same marketing noose as American companies. 82 00:03:59.149 --> 00:04:00.624 You know, they're not razzmatazz. 83 00:04:01.249 --> 00:04:07.038 And I can understand the CEO of ASML saying, look, we don't know the outlook 84 00:04:07.038 --> 00:04:09.038 for 2026. 85 00:04:09.038 --> 00:04:12.382 Therefore, we're kind of dumbing down our results or reducing them slightly. 86 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:14.117 There's nothing to worry about. 87 00:04:14.163 --> 00:04:15.070 They're still going to be up. 88 00:04:15.596 --> 00:04:20.036 Sales are still going to be up, I don't know, 30% in 2020. 89 00:04:20.055 --> 00:04:24.278 Actually put a very strong reporter, 15% this year, 30%. 90 00:04:24.754 --> 00:04:30.762 They talk about their new machine and sales are up, order books up. 91 00:04:31.176 --> 00:04:33.747 So the market, I don't know how it reacts. 92 00:04:34.356 --> 00:04:36.559 So I was a bit surprised. 93 00:04:36.762 --> 00:04:38.434 For me, it was a buying opportunity. 94 00:04:39.293 --> 00:04:41.981 I just think this is one of these companies you accumulate. 95 00:04:41.982 --> 00:04:48.952 because with TSM which is now a top 10 US company. 96 00:04:49.231 --> 00:04:56.179 I know it's not part of the S&P because it's in Taiwan, but it's still, from a 97 00:04:56.179 --> 00:04:58.179 valuation point of view, 98 00:04:58.179 --> 00:04:59.460 it's still in the top 10, and it's made its way up there. 99 00:04:59.858 --> 00:05:03.226 And it's, as Viv says, it's absolutely pivotal. 100 00:05:03.758 --> 00:05:10.526 you know you can't ai will not work without uh asml and or tsm 101 00:05:10.686 --> 00:05:16.889 this is the foundry this is the manufacturer you know and they're 102 00:05:16.889 --> 00:05:18.889 expanding now around the world they're opening up new 103 00:05:18.889 --> 00:05:21.459 new uh factories all over the place but lindsay 104 00:05:22.490 --> 00:05:29.256 when you heard what viv said about his ai portfolio yes this is not the end of it 105 00:05:29.256 --> 00:05:31.256 you know what i mean this is 106 00:05:31.256 --> 00:05:35.886 not this is still going to dominate And one of the points I wanted to talk about 107 00:05:35.886 --> 00:05:37.886 tonight is that, you know, 108 00:05:37.886 --> 00:05:38.648 I've been looking below and saying, okay, maybe extend. 109 00:05:38.968 --> 00:05:41.695 You know, maybe look at the banking results that are coming out. 110 00:05:41.953 --> 00:05:42.835 Look at PepsiCo. 111 00:05:43.015 --> 00:05:45.078 Maybe, you know, look at some of the pharmaceuticals. 112 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:46.015 There's nothing there. 113 00:05:46.414 --> 00:05:53.000 There's nothing there that is appealing as, you know, the technology stocks and 114 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:55.000 the appeal of them. 115 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.000 technology stock. 116 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:57.099 No, but not every stock can be a technology stock. 117 00:05:57.498 --> 00:06:02.205 Look at PepsiCo and it's healthier sodas were doing better. 118 00:06:02.244 --> 00:06:04.385 The share price rallies by 6.6 billion. 119 00:06:04.705 --> 00:06:05.405 I know 120 00:06:05.525 --> 00:06:12.494 David, you're a little bit blah-blah about these original companies now. 121 00:06:13.369 --> 00:06:15.135 You're a bit snoopy now, David. 122 00:06:15.353 --> 00:06:22.057 I'm just saying that I think that tech 123 00:06:22.260 --> 00:06:27.699 will continue to dominate into next year and the year thereafter. 124 00:06:29.102 --> 00:06:32.547 And therefore, keep it focused, keep it narrow. 125 00:06:32.805 --> 00:06:33.505 You know what I mean? 126 00:06:33.505 --> 00:06:38.891 You don't have to extend into a whole lot of stocks into 100 different other 127 00:06:38.891 --> 00:06:40.891 companies as well. 128 00:06:40.891 --> 00:06:44.969 So I'm not convinced that we have to give up any of these businesses. 129 00:06:45.453 --> 00:06:51.219 And if anything, still continue to accumulate and keep it very concentrated 130 00:06:51.219 --> 00:06:53.219 on where we've been. 131 00:06:53.219 --> 00:06:55.675 Nobody was suggesting that you should get rid of anything at any time. 132 00:06:56.495 --> 00:06:58.515 Nobody suggested you should diversify. 133 00:06:58.516 --> 00:07:01.476 I'm just saying that there are some people that can't do that. 134 00:07:01.523 --> 00:07:08.069 They couldn't bring themselves to just have tech just in case there was a 2000 135 00:07:08.069 --> 00:07:10.069 situation 136 00:07:10.069 --> 00:07:12.069 or something. 137 00:07:12.069 --> 00:07:14.069 But it is, I mean, that phrase, it's different this time. 138 00:07:14.069 --> 00:07:17.429 It is different this time when you've got monopolies like the two companies that 139 00:07:17.429 --> 00:07:19.429 we've spoken of. 140 00:07:19.429 --> 00:07:20.694 And I'm ignorant, so I didn't know TSMC was so important. 141 00:07:21.066 --> 00:07:22.447 even though I have heard the name. 142 00:07:22.988 --> 00:07:26.973 But ASML, I know about mainly through you, David Shapiro. 143 00:07:27.492 --> 00:07:32.020 And gosh, Viv, if it's underperformed, there's a reason for that. 144 00:07:32.074 --> 00:07:38.098 And I think it's got something to do with being in Europe rather than being in the 145 00:07:38.129 --> 00:07:39.238 United States of America. 146 00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:40.360 Could be. 147 00:07:41.363 --> 00:07:42.363 It does, actually. 148 00:07:42.754 --> 00:07:44.129 That's a good point, Lindsay. 149 00:07:44.145 --> 00:07:44.848 You know why? 150 00:07:45.426 --> 00:07:47.348 And I think we've brought it up before. 151 00:07:47.832 --> 00:07:50.207 It's not an equity culture in Europe. 152 00:07:52.764 --> 00:07:56.548 It's a socialistic state or it's everything is you looked after. 153 00:07:57.669 --> 00:07:58.833 You get your free health. 154 00:07:58.990 --> 00:08:00.450 You get your free education. 155 00:08:00.810 --> 00:08:05.818 So people haven't got the desire, that risk appetite that Americans have. 156 00:08:06.255 --> 00:08:12.927 And no matter, even though European stocks are always lower, Americans don't like to 157 00:08:12.927 --> 00:08:14.927 cross the border. 158 00:08:14.927 --> 00:08:16.927 They don't. 159 00:08:16.927 --> 00:08:18.927 They don't. 160 00:08:18.927 --> 00:08:20.927 You know, they're quite happy to keep investing in the US. 161 00:08:20.927 --> 00:08:22.927 And I think you're dead right there. 162 00:08:22.927 --> 00:08:24.927 that people don't really know about ASML. 163 00:08:24.927 --> 00:08:26.927 It's only, you know, it's only, I don't think it's ubiquitous. 164 00:08:26.927 --> 00:08:28.927 I don't think it's widespread. 165 00:08:28.927 --> 00:08:30.255 And it's, you know, for me, it's a reason. 166 00:08:30.310 --> 00:08:35.052 It's definitely a reason that European stocks tend to lag. 167 00:08:36.036 --> 00:08:38.536 So just we can live with it. 168 00:08:38.568 --> 00:08:39.286 We'll do okay. 169 00:08:40.302 --> 00:08:41.002 Okay. 170 00:08:41.146 --> 00:08:44.974 I'll stay with you on this one, David, because it's a Richemont. 171 00:08:45.052 --> 00:08:46.865 Richemont's numbers came up on the JSC. 172 00:08:47.614 --> 00:08:54.419 yesterday morning people seem to like it i mean i didn't see where it closed but in 173 00:08:54.419 --> 00:08:56.419 the afternoon share price was up about one and a quarter 174 00:08:56.419 --> 00:09:01.431 percent looked okay not fantastic i mean there were differing performances if you 175 00:09:01.431 --> 00:09:03.431 look at continued strength it says here 176 00:09:03.431 --> 00:09:03.595 in jewelry maison up 177 00:09:03.658 --> 00:09:10.298 about 11 and that's a constant exchange rate so on the other hand sequential rate 178 00:09:10.298 --> 00:09:12.298 of decline at specialist 179 00:09:12.298 --> 00:09:16.142 watchmakers down by seven percent so bits and pieces and also geographically 180 00:09:16.498 --> 00:09:18.100 there were differing performances, Dave. 181 00:09:18.101 --> 00:09:20.781 Yeah, it's a very good result. 182 00:09:21.363 --> 00:09:27.551 You know, I mean, considering the background or the circumstances, the 183 00:09:27.551 --> 00:09:29.551 share's down today, 184 00:09:29.551 --> 00:09:31.637 but I think it's down together with other luxury stocks. 185 00:09:32.051 --> 00:09:34.121 And I don't know what the reason is. 186 00:09:34.152 --> 00:09:35.543 They tend to all move together. 187 00:09:35.590 --> 00:09:37.996 But what's interesting about Richemont... 188 00:09:38.607 --> 00:09:43.713 is that when you said specialist watches, that's what we used to know Richemont by. 189 00:09:44.354 --> 00:09:49.842 And yet, that only accounts for about 15% of their revenue or sales. 190 00:09:50.561 --> 00:09:55.342 It's no longer, it's now a jewelry company, and it's Cartier, and it's from 191 00:09:55.342 --> 00:09:57.342 Cleopatra. 192 00:09:57.342 --> 00:10:02.045 And the question I keep asking analysts is that, yes, there's reasons for watches, 193 00:10:02.092 --> 00:10:07.733 and I think a lot goes back to the graft in China, but 194 00:10:08.071 --> 00:10:12.436 I'm not going to go into that in great detail, but, and also there's competition 195 00:10:12.436 --> 00:10:14.436 now. 196 00:10:14.436 --> 00:10:15.280 People are wearing Apple watches and a lot of issues. 197 00:10:15.459 --> 00:10:16.198 Nevertheless, 198 00:10:17.760 --> 00:10:23.049 what is intriguing is the actual jewelry sales. 199 00:10:23.284 --> 00:10:24.705 And this is high level. 200 00:10:25.221 --> 00:10:26.268 And this comes again. 201 00:10:26.346 --> 00:10:32.127 You're suddenly finding Richemont kind of progressing up the ladder in terms of 202 00:10:32.127 --> 00:10:34.127 luxury, you know, 203 00:10:34.127 --> 00:10:36.737 to kind of challenge the Hermes or the Ferrari, you know, where this. 204 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:39.101 Only ultra-rich people. 205 00:10:39.121 --> 00:10:40.383 And we're not talking about rich. 206 00:10:40.441 --> 00:10:45.488 We're talking about those that we don't know, you know, that we will never come 207 00:10:45.488 --> 00:10:47.488 into contact with. 208 00:10:47.488 --> 00:10:52.656 Those people who have those yachts outside Cannes or wherever they are, you know, 209 00:10:52.656 --> 00:10:54.656 incredibly wealthy people. 210 00:10:54.656 --> 00:10:59.601 And, you know, they go in there probably understated, although people say that you 211 00:10:59.601 --> 00:11:01.601 can tell 212 00:11:01.601 --> 00:11:01.726 Cartier, Jewelry, whatever it is. 213 00:11:01.742 --> 00:11:03.789 So it's a different level, Lindsay. 214 00:11:04.664 --> 00:11:06.101 And I think they're creeping up. 215 00:11:06.367 --> 00:11:07.067 You know, this was... 216 00:11:07.067 --> 00:11:11.946 I always used to say that Richemont was the ugly sister of the luxury brand, you 217 00:11:11.946 --> 00:11:12.428 know, 218 00:11:12.428 --> 00:11:16.290 because it was watches and it wasn't LVMH or Kering or any of these. 219 00:11:16.329 --> 00:11:23.282 But this is making a serious play, you know, and it's, again, it's jewellery. 220 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:24.219 This is interesting. 221 00:11:24.297 --> 00:11:29.782 I mean, you talk about diversification and the fact that you don't believe that you 222 00:11:29.782 --> 00:11:31.782 do have to diversify. 223 00:11:31.782 --> 00:11:33.782 What about a luxury goods company? 224 00:11:33.782 --> 00:11:34.032 It sits down and it says, right, there's a new CEO coming in. 225 00:11:34.033 --> 00:11:38.337 It says, right, 20% of our business is… is specialist watchmakers. 226 00:11:38.377 --> 00:11:40.798 The other, we've got 10% in bags. 227 00:11:40.861 --> 00:11:43.002 We've got 20% in women's clothing. 228 00:11:43.623 --> 00:11:44.662 And so it goes on. 229 00:11:45.064 --> 00:11:46.603 Do they have to shift it around? 230 00:11:46.604 --> 00:11:53.384 I mean, one year, one season and beyond, suddenly everybody's going for one 231 00:11:53.384 --> 00:11:55.384 particular thing. 232 00:11:55.384 --> 00:11:57.384 It doesn't work like that, no? 233 00:11:57.384 --> 00:11:59.431 You know what I say, I must give Lindsay a vivid chance. 234 00:11:59.525 --> 00:12:03.978 But these are timeless fashion brands. 235 00:12:04.927 --> 00:12:05.627 You know what I mean? 236 00:12:05.627 --> 00:12:11.773 If you look at an Hermes bag, the original Birkin bag went for $10 million. 237 00:12:11.992 --> 00:12:13.758 You know, one of the prototypes. 238 00:12:13.859 --> 00:12:14.559 Yeah. 239 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:15.640 A million dollars. 240 00:12:15.758 --> 00:12:16.883 Yeah, the one that she wore. 241 00:12:17.062 --> 00:12:21.164 8.7 million pounds, I saw that, yeah. 242 00:12:21.539 --> 00:12:22.239 Yeah. 243 00:12:22.383 --> 00:12:26.945 But this is, you know, these companies are like the epitome of luxury. 244 00:12:28.867 --> 00:12:31.195 But you can't ignore the craftsmanship as well. 245 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:34.054 So it's not as though this is factory produced. 246 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:38.724 They are craftsmen, whether it's a bag, an Hermes bag. 247 00:12:39.666 --> 00:12:40.404 What's the other one? 248 00:12:40.447 --> 00:12:42.107 The Kelly bag. 249 00:12:42.189 --> 00:12:45.689 They make two, the Birkin and Kelly, or whether it's a Ferrari, 250 00:12:46.713 --> 00:12:49.353 and even now Cartier jewelry. 251 00:12:49.932 --> 00:12:55.338 So the other thing is that they're very tight on production, 252 00:12:55.760 --> 00:12:57.182 very tight on inventory. 253 00:12:57.900 --> 00:13:01.291 You can't just go and buy them down the road. 254 00:13:01.807 --> 00:13:03.775 And that gives them a special place. 255 00:13:04.035 --> 00:13:06.016 I still like them and I would still buy them. 256 00:13:06.155 --> 00:13:08.575 I still buy those high-level luxury bands. 257 00:13:09.176 --> 00:13:11.258 Because of this, it's almost bulletproof. 258 00:13:11.696 --> 00:13:15.059 And they're just very, very wealthy people that buy. 259 00:13:15.215 --> 00:13:16.520 So they've got the margins. 260 00:13:16.856 --> 00:13:17.997 They sell what they make. 261 00:13:18.161 --> 00:13:19.457 They're really good businesses. 262 00:13:19.598 --> 00:13:21.332 It doesn't matter how expensive the bag is. 263 00:13:21.364 --> 00:13:27.020 You ask a woman to find, and I'm not being sexist here, you ask a woman to find her 264 00:13:27.020 --> 00:13:29.020 phone or the car keys. 265 00:13:29.020 --> 00:13:30.864 It doesn't matter if it's a 10 million bag or a 50 rand bag. 266 00:13:31.098 --> 00:13:33.239 She still takes the same time to find it. 267 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:33.940 Help. 268 00:13:34.763 --> 00:13:35.463 Yeah, Viv. 269 00:13:35.463 --> 00:13:35.644 That's it. 270 00:13:35.644 --> 00:13:35.943 I'm all over. 271 00:13:36.804 --> 00:13:37.504 Viv, 272 00:13:37.504 --> 00:13:44.049 is there any relationship between the fortunes of the sector that you play your 273 00:13:44.103 --> 00:13:47.666 trade in and, for example, luxury brands? 274 00:13:47.705 --> 00:13:49.103 Or is it just a thing on its own? 275 00:13:49.166 --> 00:13:51.361 Is it to do with GDP wealth? 276 00:13:51.362 --> 00:13:52.674 What's it to do with, do you think? 277 00:13:52.721 --> 00:13:56.486 Why do people buy these brands, these big, expensive brands? 278 00:13:56.502 --> 00:13:59.533 Because it differentiates them from you and me. 279 00:13:59.711 --> 00:14:00.692 I was asking Viv. 280 00:14:01.753 --> 00:14:05.976 I need a French perspective here. 281 00:14:06.097 --> 00:14:07.077 Let's be clear about this, Lindsay. 282 00:14:07.218 --> 00:14:08.640 It's you and me from David, okay? 283 00:14:09.218 --> 00:14:10.124 Yes, exactly. 284 00:14:10.421 --> 00:14:11.121 Yeah, I know. 285 00:14:11.121 --> 00:14:11.921 He's being nice, yeah. 286 00:14:12.843 --> 00:14:13.984 Yeah, he's being nice. 287 00:14:13.985 --> 00:14:14.685 He's being nice, okay. 288 00:14:16.015 --> 00:14:18.046 But here's the thing with luxury brands, right? 289 00:14:18.093 --> 00:14:24.218 And this is the thing that we must understand as well is that the things we 290 00:14:24.218 --> 00:14:26.218 think of luxury brands, at least you and I think of luxury brands, 291 00:14:26.218 --> 00:14:31.104 like Rolexes and these kind of things, are at the bottom end of actual luxury there's 292 00:14:31.104 --> 00:14:33.104 there's there's names i saw those 293 00:14:33.104 --> 00:14:37.467 names of the actual luxury brands i don't know the names of them i don't recognize 294 00:14:37.467 --> 00:14:39.467 them i wouldn't see them you know but the rich rich would know what 295 00:14:39.467 --> 00:14:44.436 they are i mean mark zuckerberg's one million dollar watch he was wearing when 296 00:14:44.436 --> 00:14:46.436 he was talking about uh something another a couple months ago i 297 00:14:46.436 --> 00:14:51.061 remember that yeah yeah and and those kind of things are like i like you know really 298 00:14:51.061 --> 00:14:53.061 out there but but the problem with luxury 299 00:14:53.061 --> 00:14:57.137 as david said it is fashion and there are things that are timeless but I always 300 00:14:57.137 --> 00:14:59.137 think back to the fur coat. 301 00:14:59.137 --> 00:15:03.347 Forever, the fur coat was a timeless fashion item and it disappeared out of 302 00:15:03.347 --> 00:15:05.347 nowhere. 303 00:15:05.347 --> 00:15:09.753 The fear I have among luxury brands is that, this is, of course, a broader thing, 304 00:15:10.112 --> 00:15:15.581 but have you noticed that there's been a big rise in socialism among the popularity 305 00:15:15.581 --> 00:15:17.581 recently? 306 00:15:17.581 --> 00:15:17.894 There's a guy called Zamdani running for mayor of New York. 307 00:15:18.331 --> 00:15:21.066 Yeah, and he's a proper socialist, that one. 308 00:15:21.175 --> 00:15:22.206 A proper socialist. 309 00:15:22.566 --> 00:15:23.925 He's from South Africa, actually, you know that? 310 00:15:23.941 --> 00:15:24.641 No. 311 00:15:25.956 --> 00:15:27.478 He did his school in Cape Town, I believe. 312 00:15:28.619 --> 00:15:29.459 Yeah. 313 00:15:29.498 --> 00:15:30.322 Yeah, so, yeah. 314 00:15:30.323 --> 00:15:31.560 South Africans are just running the U.S. 315 00:15:31.561 --> 00:15:33.103 I don't know why it's so big there. 316 00:15:33.104 --> 00:15:34.424 You know what I mean? 317 00:15:34.425 --> 00:15:37.947 Peter Thiel, Elon Musk, this guy. 318 00:15:37.948 --> 00:15:39.369 We have a disability, but we're running the U.S. 319 00:15:39.752 --> 00:15:45.502 But, yeah, so I think there is a thing happening in the world right now where 320 00:15:45.502 --> 00:15:47.502 there is going to be 321 00:15:47.502 --> 00:15:49.861 significant economic disruption from, again, from AI, and I have to bring it 322 00:15:49.861 --> 00:15:51.861 back to my particular thing. 323 00:15:51.861 --> 00:15:53.517 I think you are going to be seeing, you know, a great deal of inequality rising. 324 00:15:53.907 --> 00:16:00.494 Whether that's going to result in the rich, the mega rich buying stuff or the 325 00:16:00.494 --> 00:16:02.494 mega rich hiding their wealth, you know, to kind of like, you know, blend in or 326 00:16:02.494 --> 00:16:04.494 whatever. 327 00:16:04.494 --> 00:16:06.494 I don't know. 328 00:16:06.494 --> 00:16:07.701 But I do think that if you're looking at a world, say, four or five years time where 329 00:16:07.701 --> 00:16:09.701 unemployment is double digits across the world, 330 00:16:09.701 --> 00:16:12.178 and not because people are poor, or not because the world economy is shrinking, 331 00:16:12.178 --> 00:16:14.178 it's because, you know, 332 00:16:14.178 --> 00:16:19.849 the AI is replacing people in certain sectors because we are starting to see, 333 00:16:19.849 --> 00:16:21.849 you know, this massive inequality rising because that's what AI is likely to do. 334 00:16:21.849 --> 00:16:23.849 I don't know what. 335 00:16:23.849 --> 00:16:29.018 the the result is are we going to go to a great depression kind of thing like after 336 00:16:29.018 --> 00:16:31.018 then the great depression we had high unemployment people were wearing more 337 00:16:31.018 --> 00:16:33.018 dowdy clothes 338 00:16:33.018 --> 00:16:36.186 in the 1920s you know what i mean and would that reflect through here or will we 339 00:16:36.186 --> 00:16:38.186 see just the the rich being okay we are rich let's spend 340 00:16:38.186 --> 00:16:42.850 our money so yeah never mind what the rich are gonna do never mind what the rich are 341 00:16:42.850 --> 00:16:44.850 gonna do it's what the poor are gonna do and people rising up 342 00:16:44.850 --> 00:16:49.522 uh and also with with um with climate change people having to go from one 343 00:16:49.522 --> 00:16:51.522 country to another because 344 00:16:51.522 --> 00:16:58.062 particular places uninhabitable i mean like delhi for example uh viv i mean if it 345 00:16:58.062 --> 00:17:00.062 gets if it constantly goes to 50 degrees people 346 00:17:00.062 --> 00:17:04.832 are going to say eventually no actually this is this is too much we cannot we we 347 00:17:04.832 --> 00:17:06.832 cannot live here so i think it's a bit of 348 00:17:06.832 --> 00:17:11.894 um a few social trends that investors should be looking at i.e weather and uh 349 00:17:11.894 --> 00:17:13.894 and also yeah very high 350 00:17:13.894 --> 00:17:18.863 unemployment as you mentioned that's my thought but here's the thing like i mean 351 00:17:18.863 --> 00:17:20.863 people always say you know you need the like a bit of a 352 00:17:20.863 --> 00:17:21.989 broad, you know, wealth to make luxury goods go and so on. 353 00:17:22.308 --> 00:17:23.970 I would say that that's not human nature. 354 00:17:23.992 --> 00:17:25.472 Human nature over the last 300 years, 355 00:17:25.511 --> 00:17:31.699 because of things like democracy and more of equality 356 00:17:32.402 --> 00:17:34.543 things like unionization and so on, had that. 357 00:17:34.863 --> 00:17:36.965 But if you go back in the past, you can find a place like India. 358 00:17:36.966 --> 00:17:40.715 At one point in time, the Mughal emperor took 20% of the GDP of India for himself. 359 00:17:41.090 --> 00:17:44.371 Did he basically find things, or did he waste his money? 360 00:17:44.386 --> 00:17:45.246 No, he built the Taj Mahal. 361 00:17:45.715 --> 00:17:46.415 You know what I mean? 362 00:17:46.636 --> 00:17:50.064 When you have that kind of insane wealth, These guys will find things to do. 363 00:17:50.304 --> 00:17:52.568 Look at Jeff Bezos and his quarter of a billion dollar wedding. 364 00:17:53.349 --> 00:17:56.431 Look at Elon Musk basically going to Mars. 365 00:17:57.368 --> 00:17:59.017 You know, some of them do some good things. 366 00:17:59.018 --> 00:18:03.978 I mean, you know, Bill Gates is trying to, you know, cure diseases with 200 billion. 367 00:18:04.556 --> 00:18:05.579 But that's what happens. 368 00:18:05.767 --> 00:18:08.142 You do find ways to spend even hundreds of billions of dollars. 369 00:18:09.204 --> 00:18:14.829 So I don't know if that's going to be the limitation, but it could really be the 370 00:18:14.829 --> 00:18:16.829 social stigma of the fact that, you know, you ask, you know, 371 00:18:16.829 --> 00:18:17.392 so or so stations of your wealth when. 372 00:18:17.603 --> 00:18:21.567 It's going to be double-digit plus unemployment in many of these first-world 373 00:18:21.567 --> 00:18:21.587 countries. 374 00:18:22.266 --> 00:18:26.875 I think you're concentrating again, I'm saying you're concentrating too much on 375 00:18:26.875 --> 00:18:28.875 what the rich will do. 376 00:18:28.875 --> 00:18:33.258 They'll find something, not the poor will do, which is the most important thing for 377 00:18:33.258 --> 00:18:35.258 the world and for investors as well. 378 00:18:35.258 --> 00:18:37.258 David's kept very quiet on this one. 379 00:18:37.258 --> 00:18:41.563 Yeah, because despite what you say, you can't get a Birkin back. 380 00:18:42.315 --> 00:18:43.136 And you could try. 381 00:18:44.297 --> 00:18:49.262 Yes, we're not disputing that the wealthy will say, OK, I want one of those. 382 00:18:49.801 --> 00:18:56.770 I want that dinosaur skeleton because it's the only one left and I'll buy it 383 00:18:56.832 --> 00:18:59.473 and I'll build a house in my garden for it. 384 00:18:59.629 --> 00:19:01.473 I don't care about the rich people. 385 00:19:01.489 --> 00:19:04.645 I mean, I'm not saying I don't care about them. 386 00:19:05.161 --> 00:19:10.723 You can give your speech outside the Ernie's shops, wherever they are. 387 00:19:11.343 --> 00:19:17.811 I know in Bond Street, I don't know where it is in New York, but I'll give you the 388 00:19:17.811 --> 00:19:19.811 LVMH or Tiffany's and you can give your talk. 389 00:19:19.811 --> 00:19:20.389 In fact, it's right next door to Trump's Tower. 390 00:19:20.991 --> 00:19:25.420 So you think I'm anti-luxury goods? 391 00:19:25.741 --> 00:19:31.249 If you want to buy me something from Asprey or something like that in Bond 392 00:19:31.249 --> 00:19:33.249 Street, David, that's very nice. 393 00:19:33.249 --> 00:19:35.514 I would like it and I will covet its fantastic craftsmanship. 394 00:19:35.827 --> 00:19:36.527 I agree. 395 00:19:36.527 --> 00:19:38.092 If you've got money, then spend it. 396 00:19:38.327 --> 00:19:40.771 I'm just talking about the trend that Viv introduced. 397 00:19:42.154 --> 00:19:49.048 I'm just saying there are rich people out there that we have no idea how much 398 00:19:49.048 --> 00:19:51.048 they're worth and what 399 00:19:51.048 --> 00:19:51.587 they will spend it on, and that's the market there. 400 00:19:52.198 --> 00:19:59.183 These people, you know, that these groups that I mentioned play to, you know, why 401 00:19:59.183 --> 00:20:01.183 would a man want five Ferraris or six Ferraris? 402 00:20:01.183 --> 00:20:03.183 Why? 403 00:20:03.183 --> 00:20:05.492 I mean, seriously, I can't understand. 404 00:20:05.555 --> 00:20:12.172 But there are those people and this is the market and these luxury 405 00:20:12.297 --> 00:20:17.265 brands, these high level luxury brands understand the market and they control 406 00:20:17.265 --> 00:20:19.265 supply. 407 00:20:19.265 --> 00:20:21.265 Therefore... 408 00:20:21.265 --> 00:20:26.842 you know uh what's what's the word controlling their business controlling 409 00:20:26.842 --> 00:20:28.842 their profits so it's a it's a very special area and you 410 00:20:28.842 --> 00:20:32.987 mustn't confuse that with the lululemons and the michael kors and the kelvin 411 00:20:32.987 --> 00:20:34.987 clients and 412 00:20:34.987 --> 00:20:36.870 uh ralph lawrence those are not luxury no 413 00:20:36.932 --> 00:20:43.932 no they're high they're high-end um consumer goods um as you're quite rightly 414 00:20:43.932 --> 00:20:45.932 safe i mean if if you look at the history 415 00:20:45.932 --> 00:20:49.331 of cartier if you look at the history of van cleef Van Cleef-Alpel, etc. 416 00:20:50.453 --> 00:20:55.982 And Berber, you go down the list, you do the history and you find out when they 417 00:20:55.982 --> 00:20:57.982 were formed and how they were formed 418 00:20:57.982 --> 00:20:58.802 and the craftsmen that started it. 419 00:20:59.318 --> 00:21:00.740 It's the most extraordinary thing. 420 00:21:01.763 --> 00:21:08.669 Fabergé obviously went all over the place, but if you look at how Fabergé started, 421 00:21:08.716 --> 00:21:13.857 it's a fascinating story and you will never, ever recreate a Cartier, David. 422 00:21:13.888 --> 00:21:16.560 I don't believe you can do, even if you start now. 423 00:21:17.342 --> 00:21:18.623 Because it won't be the same. 424 00:21:18.783 --> 00:21:22.926 Even those specialist watches, you know, you're not getting the craftsmanship. 425 00:21:22.969 --> 00:21:23.669 You know, 426 00:21:23.809 --> 00:21:30.434 it's handed over to a very few people that actually develop the ability to make those 427 00:21:30.793 --> 00:21:31.957 very special watches. 428 00:21:32.535 --> 00:21:34.778 So, listen, I don't wear a watch. 429 00:21:35.793 --> 00:21:41.903 I drive a Peugeot 208, which I've only done about 4,000 Ks in two years. 430 00:21:44.012 --> 00:21:47.348 So, but… But I recognize these brands. 431 00:21:47.607 --> 00:21:51.211 I recognize the appeal of these businesses. 432 00:21:51.730 --> 00:21:52.430 Sure. 433 00:21:52.430 --> 00:21:57.035 Then, Viv, I'll ask both of you these questions before we get to the markets. 434 00:21:58.121 --> 00:21:59.480 You're going to treat yourself, David. 435 00:21:59.543 --> 00:22:00.777 What's your idea of luxury? 436 00:22:00.824 --> 00:22:05.980 He's just going to buy something for you, not for Linda, your wife, not for the kids 437 00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:07.980 or anything, just for you. 438 00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:09.980 Yeah. 439 00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:12.715 In fact, I was looking at I get a lot of invitations from galleries, 440 00:22:13.340 --> 00:22:14.762 and I saw some woodcuts. 441 00:22:15.102 --> 00:22:21.670 from an African artist now that's on exhibition, but I saw the price and said, 442 00:22:21.670 --> 00:22:23.670 no, not really going to go for that one. 443 00:22:23.670 --> 00:22:25.249 But that's where I focus my attention. 444 00:22:26.475 --> 00:22:31.397 But then again, I'm quite careful about how much I lay out. 445 00:22:31.459 --> 00:22:33.819 Yes, okay, all right. 446 00:22:33.834 --> 00:22:39.006 Buying in pounds, you've got to divide everything or times everything by 24. 447 00:22:39.522 --> 00:22:41.022 So it makes it, okay. 448 00:22:42.471 --> 00:22:49.257 scrap that one take it off the list all right i didn't get a very good answer from 449 00:22:49.257 --> 00:22:51.257 you but you've got 450 00:22:51.257 --> 00:22:56.003 a luxury good or service to buy for yourself to treat yourself because you've 451 00:22:56.003 --> 00:22:58.003 had a tough time or something or you've had a good time 452 00:22:58.003 --> 00:23:03.136 whichever what would it be look uh the last thing i bought that was really 453 00:23:03.136 --> 00:23:05.136 expensive for myself and was like just a 454 00:23:05.136 --> 00:23:05.917 bit of luxury without any kind of usage was a those 455 00:23:06.011 --> 00:23:11.495 oculus rift glasses you know those glasses yes and they were about 20 000 or So. 456 00:23:13.383 --> 00:23:15.525 But I mean, that is about as high as I go. 457 00:23:15.605 --> 00:23:17.607 And that's like a once a year purchase, if that. 458 00:23:19.388 --> 00:23:22.029 I'm not into cars, I'm not into clothes, I'm not into jewellery. 459 00:23:22.490 --> 00:23:24.154 I don't have any of that stuff quite, right? 460 00:23:24.155 --> 00:23:24.912 Good for you. 461 00:23:25.216 --> 00:23:25.916 My wife is more... 462 00:23:27.013 --> 00:23:29.560 The luxury stuff I have is the stuff my wife wants, basically. 463 00:23:29.607 --> 00:23:31.263 That's the luxury stuff I get. 464 00:23:31.701 --> 00:23:33.138 Okay, understood. 465 00:23:34.638 --> 00:23:37.529 A kitchen remake is probably the most luxurious thing I will be doing. 466 00:23:37.530 --> 00:23:39.966 That's not a bad thing to do as well, I have to tell you. 467 00:23:40.975 --> 00:23:42.996 It enhances the value of your house enormously. 468 00:23:44.139 --> 00:23:44.839 Right, OK, Chair. 469 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:47.061 Let's have a look at the spot prices. 470 00:23:47.779 --> 00:23:52.147 OK, I've got the dollar round at 1785. 471 00:23:52.148 --> 00:23:57.068 We've got the South African Reserve Bank's MPC meeting at the end of this month, 472 00:23:57.131 --> 00:24:01.803 and surely they'll cut by a quarter of a percent market, watching that, of course, 473 00:24:01.803 --> 00:24:03.803 but also it's already factored in. 474 00:24:03.803 --> 00:24:05.803 British pound, you were talking about that, David. 475 00:24:05.803 --> 00:24:07.803 Yeah, you're spot on. 476 00:24:07.803 --> 00:24:09.803 It's 24, you've got to multiply a pound by. 477 00:24:09.803 --> 00:24:11.803 2395, to be precise. 478 00:24:11.803 --> 00:24:12.374 Euro-Rand is 2068. 479 00:24:12.714 --> 00:24:17.794 And Euro-Dollar, 115.87, which is a euro which has fallen by 480 00:24:18.376 --> 00:24:19.735 0.4% against the dollar. 481 00:24:19.736 --> 00:24:20.436 That's interesting. 482 00:24:20.436 --> 00:24:21.618 That's quite a move for the dollar. 483 00:24:22.095 --> 00:24:25.634 British Pound, 134.10, which has barely changed. 484 00:24:25.696 --> 00:24:27.751 Now, the gold price has been hit by the stronger dollar. 485 00:24:28.157 --> 00:24:34.235 It's down $31 to $33.33 per ounce, 0.9% weaker. 486 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:36.626 And Platinum, that's up... 487 00:24:37.502 --> 00:24:38.202 This is me. 488 00:24:38.202 --> 00:24:38.883 It's up again. 489 00:24:39.044 --> 00:24:39.944 This is a big move. 490 00:24:39.965 --> 00:24:41.426 Another 5% today. 491 00:24:41.427 --> 00:24:44.868 1464, up $71 an ounce. 492 00:24:44.887 --> 00:24:49.997 It wasn't long ago when I was saying, when is platinum going to become a four-figure 493 00:24:49.997 --> 00:24:51.997 commodity again? 494 00:24:51.997 --> 00:24:52.575 It's been stuck in the 900s for so long. 495 00:24:52.895 --> 00:24:53.645 And look at it now. 496 00:24:53.973 --> 00:24:59.020 It's rallied by, what, 40, 50% in the last three months or so, I think. 497 00:24:59.708 --> 00:25:01.598 Yeah, it's a really, really big move. 498 00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:06.630 Hopefully, South Africa can dig enough PGMs out of the ground to make it good for 499 00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:08.630 the fiscus. 500 00:25:08.630 --> 00:25:10.630 But we'll see about that. 501 00:25:10.630 --> 00:25:15.171 Let's have a look at some other commodities as well, notably the oil 502 00:25:15.171 --> 00:25:17.171 complex, which has been above $70, 503 00:25:17.171 --> 00:25:18.358 down to $67 yesterday and back at $69 today. 504 00:25:18.397 --> 00:25:24.897 $68.96, up two-thirds for Brent crude, and $67.14 for West Texas variety, 505 00:25:25.022 --> 00:25:26.866 up 1.1%. 506 00:25:27.085 --> 00:25:29.725 Natural gas unchanged at $3.55. 507 00:25:29.726 --> 00:25:30.426 Copper. 508 00:25:30.622 --> 00:25:33.044 5.51, up a third of a percent. 509 00:25:33.085 --> 00:25:34.425 Did I tell you my copper story? 510 00:25:34.446 --> 00:25:35.987 No, I didn't tell you my copper story. 511 00:25:36.007 --> 00:25:42.558 A friend of mine was travelling from the south of the Netherlands to Amsterdam on 512 00:25:42.558 --> 00:25:44.558 Monday, 513 00:25:44.558 --> 00:25:49.948 and they stopped the train at a place called Rosendaal, and she had to get off 514 00:25:49.948 --> 00:25:51.948 and get a bus. 515 00:25:51.948 --> 00:25:53.948 The reason is... 516 00:25:53.948 --> 00:25:57.567 copper theft on the line copper a great south afghan export in the netherlands 517 00:25:58.208 --> 00:26:04.970 someone has stolen the copper and it's apparently becoming more and more common 518 00:26:04.970 --> 00:26:06.970 and of course it's because of the 519 00:26:06.970 --> 00:26:11.876 copper price at uh what is it uh 5.46 per pound in new york and it was a 520 00:26:12.251 --> 00:26:18.829 it was trump that really uh got the thing going and got those copper thieves out 521 00:26:18.829 --> 00:26:20.829 there it's extraordinary 522 00:26:20.829 --> 00:26:27.350 well they must have learned from the south are you sure we didn't export some chips 523 00:26:27.350 --> 00:26:27.749 that's 524 00:26:27.749 --> 00:26:30.409 what i'm saying it's it's it's either idea export or it's a physical it's saying come 525 00:26:30.409 --> 00:26:32.409 on let's show us how it's done 526 00:26:34.635 --> 00:26:41.276 s p these s p 500 features are up a third of a percent the these These are September 527 00:26:41.276 --> 00:26:43.276 futures, 528 00:26:43.276 --> 00:26:43.760 6,324. 529 00:26:43.807 --> 00:26:47.588 The US 10-year Treasury yield is 4.44%. 530 00:26:47.798 --> 00:26:51.902 That's after CPI and retail sales and some earnings. 531 00:26:52.621 --> 00:26:55.285 The South African 10-year, what is that doing? 532 00:26:55.367 --> 00:26:59.269 It's looking as though it's going to go into double figures again. 533 00:26:59.270 --> 00:27:01.613 It's 9.96 at the moment. 534 00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:05.675 So the recent good form suddenly coming under threat again. 535 00:27:06.019 --> 00:27:07.972 And Bitcoin, what should we do with this? 536 00:27:08.035 --> 00:27:08.800 Oh, goodness me. 537 00:27:09.394 --> 00:27:13.425 Last time we spoke, David, it was $122,000 a coin. 538 00:27:14.050 --> 00:27:15.144 Ah, it's a bear market. 539 00:27:15.191 --> 00:27:16.894 Now, 118,000 is... 540 00:27:17.182 --> 00:27:22.887 600 which is down 0.4 percent vid bitcoin please tell us 541 00:27:23.449 --> 00:27:30.355 yeah i don't know if you saw the new genius act coming into play um i noticed 542 00:27:30.355 --> 00:27:32.355 something about the speaker walking 543 00:27:32.355 --> 00:27:35.504 along and the genius act being voted on or something tell us about that yeah 544 00:27:35.660 --> 00:27:42.504 this is a move here uh so the uh guy running crypto and ai is a guy called 545 00:27:42.504 --> 00:27:44.504 david sachs he's on the 546 00:27:44.504 --> 00:27:45.816 old class so you know pretty much what he's i 547 00:27:46.282 --> 00:27:53.085 these ideas are these guys are extremely and i mean extremely into uh bitcoin and 548 00:27:53.085 --> 00:27:55.085 so uh and other 549 00:27:55.085 --> 00:28:00.022 cryptocurrencies as well i mean it's one of the topics they talk about as almost as 550 00:28:00.022 --> 00:28:02.022 much as ai uh so this genius act comes to play and what 551 00:28:02.022 --> 00:28:06.546 it's aiming to do is it's doing what it's working what's called stable coins the 552 00:28:06.546 --> 00:28:08.546 stable coin is basically something where you have a 553 00:28:08.546 --> 00:28:13.452 cryptocurrency backed you know fully by a hard currency usually the us dollar so 554 00:28:13.452 --> 00:28:15.452 there's a The biggest one out there is a company called Tether. 555 00:28:15.452 --> 00:28:21.563 uh and effectively every tether coin should be backed by one u.s dollar in 556 00:28:21.563 --> 00:28:23.563 tether's bank count you know what i mean now the you may 557 00:28:23.563 --> 00:28:28.383 think what is the use of this i mean look at the market capitalization of a visa or 558 00:28:28.383 --> 00:28:30.383 a mastercard you know these are hundreds of millions of dollars 559 00:28:30.383 --> 00:28:34.164 worth of companies and what are they doing they're basically doing uh transactions 560 00:28:34.164 --> 00:28:36.164 with currencies uh 561 00:28:36.164 --> 00:28:40.946 you know they're moving money around if you could move you know obviously the 562 00:28:40.946 --> 00:28:42.946 technology for moving crypto is easier than the technology for moving 563 00:28:42.946 --> 00:28:43.696 like money according to the ways being price share. 564 00:28:44.046 --> 00:28:47.469 You could technically convert your currency to a tether. 565 00:28:47.590 --> 00:28:52.598 Move somewhere else, pay somebody that tether, they convert it back into the 566 00:28:52.598 --> 00:28:54.598 local currency or whatever currency they want to use it as. 567 00:28:54.598 --> 00:28:58.942 And that is probably a cheaper way to do things, an easy way to do things than 568 00:28:58.942 --> 00:29:00.942 using MasterCard or Visa or the big banking systems. 569 00:29:00.942 --> 00:29:02.504 And like I said, this is a trillion dollar business at the moment for these two 570 00:29:02.504 --> 00:29:02.689 companies. 571 00:29:03.785 --> 00:29:09.426 And the US government, by basically legitimizing these stable coins, 572 00:29:10.051 --> 00:29:13.301 is going to possibly cause a huge shift in the way 573 00:29:13.710 --> 00:29:20.579 financial markets work uh and like i said this guy david sacks is really into this 574 00:29:20.579 --> 00:29:22.579 so he kind of knows what he's what he's doing so i do 575 00:29:22.579 --> 00:29:27.422 think this is this is a significant change in how financial markets could work going 576 00:29:27.422 --> 00:29:29.422 forward and the weird thing about this these coins is the way they make their 577 00:29:29.422 --> 00:29:31.594 money is that when you put a a bit of money with tether by 578 00:29:31.672 --> 00:29:38.594 tether that body they take it they basically are interested okay and so they 579 00:29:38.594 --> 00:29:40.594 that is their business model they are making money on the interest they 580 00:29:40.594 --> 00:29:44.869 have while they're holding your body when you do transfers and whatnot I think, you 581 00:29:44.869 --> 00:29:46.869 know, That means that the actual transfer itself, 582 00:29:46.869 --> 00:29:51.135 if you do a transfer from South Africa, for instance, to the UK or something, 583 00:29:51.135 --> 00:29:53.135 you're often paying in excess of 1% in some cases, 584 00:29:53.135 --> 00:29:54.580 depending on what the spread is and the different fees and so on for your money. 585 00:29:55.322 --> 00:30:01.057 And so many people might be looking at something like a system like this as being 586 00:30:01.057 --> 00:30:03.057 a cheaper way to do their money transfers. 587 00:30:03.057 --> 00:30:05.791 Also, if you're moving large amounts of money, there's often issues you might have 588 00:30:05.791 --> 00:30:07.791 with the banking system. 589 00:30:07.791 --> 00:30:08.103 So, yeah, this is a very significant move. 590 00:30:08.635 --> 00:30:11.697 It's more to do with the nuts and bolts behind the financial system, but it could 591 00:30:11.697 --> 00:30:11.913 really... 592 00:30:12.398 --> 00:30:13.579 like I said, a trillion-dollar industry. 593 00:30:13.898 --> 00:30:14.679 Isn't that interesting? 594 00:30:14.718 --> 00:30:20.298 A very, very new technology using a very, very old way to make money. 595 00:30:20.322 --> 00:30:24.681 In other words, you've got the money in your account, we'll earn interest from it 596 00:30:24.681 --> 00:30:26.681 overnight or something. 597 00:30:26.681 --> 00:30:28.681 Very interesting. 598 00:30:28.681 --> 00:30:30.681 David? 599 00:30:30.681 --> 00:30:32.681 Yeah. 600 00:30:32.681 --> 00:30:34.681 You were saying? 601 00:30:34.681 --> 00:30:36.681 No, I was saying it's backed by the dollar. 602 00:30:36.681 --> 00:30:38.681 Yes. 603 00:30:38.681 --> 00:30:40.681 So it's a transmission mechanism. 604 00:30:40.681 --> 00:30:41.447 But, you know, you're going look, I can't question it. 605 00:30:41.478 --> 00:30:42.178 I don't. 606 00:30:42.178 --> 00:30:48.718 know because i don't know you know if this is not bitcoin if it's if it is just a 607 00:30:48.718 --> 00:30:50.718 token yeah then there is 608 00:30:50.718 --> 00:30:53.405 promise you know where how this differs from what bitcoin is i'm not quite sure 609 00:30:53.724 --> 00:31:00.352 you know stable coin versus uh bitcoin because i think the whole purpose was not 610 00:31:00.352 --> 00:31:02.352 to have it linked to any 611 00:31:02.352 --> 00:31:07.239 currency you know to to be something that's uh because if it's linked to a 612 00:31:07.239 --> 00:31:09.239 dollar it's still going to be like 613 00:31:09.239 --> 00:31:13.246 um you know it it's still going to be subject to controls by uh the 614 00:31:13.309 --> 00:31:20.075 dollar issuers uh central banks and so on but anyway let's see i'm not i'm i'm When 615 00:31:20.075 --> 00:31:20.306 I say 616 00:31:20.306 --> 00:31:21.887 agnostic on this, I'm just learning. 617 00:31:22.448 --> 00:31:29.294 you know always concerned about um security type issues around us but i must 618 00:31:29.333 --> 00:31:36.044 say one thing is that everybody who owns a bitcoin just feels it's their obligation 619 00:31:36.044 --> 00:31:38.044 to tell you 620 00:31:38.044 --> 00:31:43.013 to tell me every time it trades up you know yeah there's 621 00:31:43.169 --> 00:31:49.810 there's a lot of very smug people around at the moment david chapira but you just 622 00:31:49.810 --> 00:31:51.810 turn the other cheek and say well done i'm really 623 00:31:51.810 --> 00:31:53.810 pleased for you 624 00:31:53.810 --> 00:32:00.076 through your teeth that is of course gentlemen on the jc today i've got 625 00:32:00.076 --> 00:32:02.076 coronation 626 00:32:02.076 --> 00:32:07.318 coronation managers up over five percent now they're i think it's under management 627 00:32:07.318 --> 00:32:09.318 announcement was very very brief 628 00:32:09.318 --> 00:32:14.724 we have got this amount of money under management now yesterday something like 629 00:32:14.724 --> 00:32:16.724 that nothing else and that was around that was around 630 00:32:16.724 --> 00:32:17.771 mid-afternoon and the share price did nothing and today Okay. 631 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:18.841 5% higher. 632 00:32:18.940 --> 00:32:23.182 Maybe people are having a look at exactly where that money has come from, where it 633 00:32:23.182 --> 00:32:23.261 is going. 634 00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:24.842 Northam's up 4%. 635 00:32:25.842 --> 00:32:29.085 A company called We Buy Cars up 2.8%. 636 00:32:30.342 --> 00:32:32.764 Blue Label Telecoms up 1.8%. 637 00:32:32.780 --> 00:32:35.467 And MTM up one and three quarters nearly. 638 00:32:35.546 --> 00:32:38.999 Downside, Valterra, the platinum producers. 639 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:39.717 That's strange. 640 00:32:39.811 --> 00:32:41.186 Down three and two thirds percent. 641 00:32:42.092 --> 00:32:42.905 What else have we got? 642 00:32:43.046 --> 00:32:46.389 Richemont down 3.4% after good results yesterday. 643 00:32:46.905 --> 00:32:47.605 Well, there were. 644 00:32:48.429 --> 00:32:55.397 analyzed as good results more or less across the board but suddenly come down 645 00:32:55.397 --> 00:32:57.397 today but david says it's because the whole sector is down and i'll take 646 00:32:57.397 --> 00:33:02.405 that and premier down 2.8 percent anyone got anything else outside of that before 647 00:33:02.405 --> 00:33:04.405 david gives us the 648 00:33:04.405 --> 00:33:04.764 indices no david 649 00:33:04.842 --> 00:33:11.499 indices please we closed up right across the board the orchard index up in 0.3 650 00:33:11.999 --> 00:33:17.423 percent at 97353 No dramatic moves, 651 00:33:17.543 --> 00:33:23.627 but the resource index up about a half a percent, banks up about a half a percent, 652 00:33:24.111 --> 00:33:26.548 and the industrial index up about a quarter percent. 653 00:33:26.572 --> 00:33:29.673 So, you know, broadly along those lines. 654 00:33:30.056 --> 00:33:31.994 The property index has been gaining. 655 00:33:32.541 --> 00:33:34.181 Every day it seems to be ticking up. 656 00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:37.166 I think investors are looking for value there. 657 00:33:37.181 --> 00:33:41.541 I think we might have seen the bottoming of that sector after really hard time. 658 00:33:41.572 --> 00:33:44.009 That was up another third of a percent today. 659 00:33:44.492 --> 00:33:47.015 Value traded round about the 22 level. 660 00:33:47.255 --> 00:33:51.618 Still a lot of interest in platinum shares, a lot of interest in gold shares 661 00:33:51.618 --> 00:33:53.618 here as well. 662 00:33:53.618 --> 00:33:58.763 But NASDAQ's buying back their shares always dominates the high value trades. 663 00:33:59.903 --> 00:34:00.603 Okay. 664 00:34:00.603 --> 00:34:02.091 Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time. 665 00:34:02.434 --> 00:34:07.138 We'll come back next week at the same time with lots more results, I'm sure, 666 00:34:07.153 --> 00:34:09.778 and lots of moves on companies that I should know the name of. 667 00:34:10.296 --> 00:34:11.217 but don't at the moment. 668 00:34:11.238 --> 00:34:13.179 So I'll do some boning up on that one. 669 00:34:13.220 --> 00:34:15.161 David Shapiro is from Sessom Securities. 670 00:34:15.822 --> 00:34:18.540 Viv Govender from Ransfis, both from Johannesburg. 671 00:34:18.541 --> 00:34:20.150 And that was the five o'clock shadow. 672 00:34:20.548 --> 00:34:27.494 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and 673 00:34:27.494 --> 00:34:29.494 various contributors and do not reflect the policy, 674 00:34:29.494 --> 00:34:31.244 position or opinion of any other agency, organisation, 675 00:34:31.572 --> 00:34:36.197 employer or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 676 00:34:36.681 --> 00:34:43.619 Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the of the position of any 677 00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:45.619 other entity other than the speaker or the author. 678 00:34:45.619 --> 00:34:49.107 And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to 679 00:34:49.107 --> 00:34:49.207 change, 680 00:34:49.389 --> 00:34:51.951 revision and rethinking at any time. 681 00:34:52.256 --> 00:34:54.678 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.