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You're listening to Strictly Business
Podcast with Lindsay Williams.

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The JSC has closed its doors for another
day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock

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shadow.

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And as always on a Wednesday, I speak to
Skalk Lowe, Portfolio Manager at PSG

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Wealth, Old Oak, Cape Town.

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Quiet stuff, quiet time of the year in the
Northern Hemisphere, Skalk.

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I just want to ask you one question to
kick off the podcast.

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Four years ago, had you heard of NVIDIA?

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Yes, I did.

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But it's just because I'm a tech nerd.

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So I did buy their products.

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But I did not see them as a $3 trillion
company.

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$4 trillion company today.

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$4 trillion today.

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Correction.

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$4 trillion company.

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Man, oh, man.

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Oh, man.

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$4 trillion.

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It wasn't that long ago where you were
saying, was it Microsoft or Apple that hit

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the $1 trillion mark?

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And that was only a year ago or something.

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Maybe a year and a half.

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I don't know.

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Now $4 trillion for another company.

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It is crazy, crazy, crazy.

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And yeah, I think last year, we celebrated
that two companies went above $3 trillion,

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which was

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NVIDIA and Apple, if I'm not mistaken.

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Or was it Microsoft?

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But anyway, be that as it may, $4
trillion.

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Crazy.

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Incredible.

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jsc could do with a four trillion rand
company or you know a few more four

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billion rand uh companies it's very very

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quiet at the moment scale really is as i
said the northern hemisphere uh affects

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the southern hemisphere of course

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yeah no it's a it's it's it's sort of the
quiet before the storm i mean yeah we're

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sitting

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on the 9th of july and this is a
significant date because we were sort of

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dreading for the past let's call it uh

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what was it 90 days yes 90 days we were

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We're sort of dreading this day to come
because are we going to see a second verse

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same as the first,

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very similar to the start of April?

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And yet we're sitting, it's pretty much a
non-event.

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I was on another interview today and funny
enough,

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David Shapiro was with me.

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Yeah, he actually started off and I don't
want to quote David because that's just...

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Well, you already are, so go for it.

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He doesn't like it.

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I'm very dangerous.

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But he mentioned and he said, you know,
maybe the world now got used to Trump.

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I mean, maybe markets now got used to
Trump.

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And this is why we're seeing this.

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And it's a very interesting comment to
make because it's true.

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Maybe markets are just…

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sort of became blase to these and any any
any follow it up by saying he went all

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guns

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blazing and and now we it most probably
will settle around about the 10

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percent terrorist mark in general now my

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comment and i still i don't think that but
anyway yes go on let's let's let's let's

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let's let's play with that

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let's let's just play with that scenario i
agree with you i don't think we're we're

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going to get Get to that 10% mark,

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but let's play with the 10% mark.

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If for whatever reason, let's go to the
beginning of April, Trump came out and

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said,

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I'm going to bring out tariffs.

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It's going to be beautiful tariffs.

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It's going to be 10% and it's
non-negotiable.

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Boom, there we go.

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And starting tomorrow, markets would have
reacted extremely negative.

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And it would have been now.

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we're looking at this and saying 10% is a
win.

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And any country that get a 10% tariffs
will sort of reply, where do I sign?

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So it is.

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We got used to it.

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We were dreading this.

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I mean, some of these tariffs were 200%.

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And, you know, we know the fight between
Trump and Xi or China.

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I mean, bottom line is, it's just crazy,
crazy how, you know, how

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volatile, you know, things.

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We haven't gone through one week since the
21st of January without some major event.

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And all of those events usually had Trump
involved.

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Trump's art of the deal was based, I've
never read it, and I will never read it,

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but it's based on over-promising or
under-promising.

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So what he's done with the tariffs is very
simple.

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He's frightened everybody by saying it's
going to be this level, it's going to be

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that level,

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and then that gives him the wiggle room to
bring it down.

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And as you quite rightly say, By bringing
it down, people are relieved.

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But if they had just started at that
bottom and said, right, this is sworn into

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law, you're going to be 10%, 15%,

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20%, which people would be happy with now.

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If you'd have done that at the end of
March, early April, whenever it was, when

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he did that Liberation Day rubbish,

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markets would have reacted badly.

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So in a way, he's quite clever by being
such a simpleton.

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If you see what I mean, he just says, oh,
well, I'll start at 50 and I'll come down

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to 10 and they'll be happy.

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And that's that's where we're at.

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He says now, well, we've extended 214 days
from 90 days by going to August the 1st.

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He has said now that that is the end of
it.

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No more extensions, which is a good sign
for people in the market who rely on

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imports and exports.

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At least they know that August the 1st is
the end of it, Skulk.

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Correct.

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Correct.

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That's.

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That's it now.

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I mean, there's no going back.

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And I mean, if you listen to what he said,
don't turn around,

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don't come and retaliate with your own
tariffs,

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because then I will let you just go and
double up your tariffs.

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So that's it.

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And everybody saw the playbook, you know,
what happened after China retaliated.

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And I think, yeah, I'm actually quite
surprised.

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We're sitting here, but...

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As you rightfully said, this is the quiet
season.

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But we've still got three weeks till
August the 1st.

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Anything can happen.

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I mean, who would have thought that
yesterday, oh, well, 50% tariff on copper.

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The copper price in New York, the futures,
went up 18% yesterday.

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It's unheard of.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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No, it's, yeah, anyway.

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Okay.

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Anyway, it's that we, next week we'll,
it's funny how we

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every single week we've got something to
say about um and like i said it hasn't

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been six months it hasn't

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been six months since he's sworn into to
office so it's still three and a half

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years to go what

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fun i'm going to piggyback off you
shamelessly and say what else did you and

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david shapiro

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discuss anything of any great uh meaning
it was just i mean it was just that

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the show was a market show and we pondered
off and eventually ended up on the floor

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back in the days and

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the gold market.

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But in short...

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So you said nothing in other words.

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We had nothing really to say.

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But I think the bottom line was very
similar to what you say.

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I think this could go any direction.

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We discussed a company which I would
definitely like to touch on again and

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that's Remgrove.

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I mean, great.

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great day for for for rim go in the market
again you know up at two and a half

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percent we we saw the the

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announcement this morning that came
through you know that the competition

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commission now approved that

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deal um of the merger of basically uh rim

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grow selling their fiber business to to um
vodacom yes and um yeah that was very very

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good very good i mean vodacom initially
was negative.

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I think people were a bit worried there.

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vodacom in it just just uh sort of
positive and today but but rim grow up two

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and a half percent um

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and still trading 40 discount to its
intrinsic value so it's so extraordinary

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isn't it i mean when something

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gets into the uh you know 30 to 35 area
people say it's time to have a look at it

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40 and it's been there for a

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while it's been there for a while but but
why i'm calling this one now and you know

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you know this is it's like my

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gold call i mean Remgrove has been one of
my darlings for many years and it hasn't

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done badly but

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just stagnated.

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It stayed like you just mentioned, this
discounted NAV stayed at these 40% levels.

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One stage actually got close to 50%.

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But I mean the one thing that's been in
the news since the beginning of the year

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is the sort of unbundling,

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the value unlocking of the Raynet, which
we know is a Rupert company.

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There's another Rupert company, and I just
said, Remgrove,

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that's also trading at these crazy
discount levels.

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I'm just asking myself the question, when
will they turn around and say, well…

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let's just do the same with rim grow i
mean let's just just parcel it off and

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then

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there'd be some fun on on the jse because
these are old school companies just miss

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mentioned two of them

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renette and rem grow you'll never see the
likes of those again certainly

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not the rem grow business model anyway no
no the the rim grow business model i i

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don't i don't

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know it's not not the same business model
and i think somewhere along the line very

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similar to what

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what Pete Matona has done with PSG Group.

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It's just you decide, do you want to still
go through this?

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Let's just unlock the value and let's just
do it quick.

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It's like ripping off the band-aid.

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Let's just rip it off and run AA.

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But that's not currently talked about.

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That's just my theory.

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I like Remgrove because I like the
companies inside Remgrove.

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I like the fact that it's running at a
very, very deep discount.

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And I like the fact that it's still a very
and the company's inside is a solid SA

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Inc.

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play.

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So if you still like the SA Inc.

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play, buy Rengross.

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It's like that shampoo.

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I mean, two in one.

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You get so many more than just the one
company.

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There's so many more.

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It's a great company to buy, and you're
buying at a massive discount.

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Very good.

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You've sold it well.

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Let's have a look at some prices here.

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We've got the dollar round at 17.78.

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The euro round is 20.83 British pound
against the round

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24.17. Euro dollar 117.15, which is barely
changed.

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Commodities now the gold price holding on
to 3300.

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It's 33.11 on my screen, down just over
$40 an ounce.

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Platinum is unchanged at 13.72.

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And palladium is up 20, or one and two
thirds percent.

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to 11.33.

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Now, the oil price is being a bit stubborn
these days.

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The oil price is, let's just get rid of
these things that pop up and obliterate

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it, 17.26 at the moment.

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It's come off its highs, but nonetheless,
17.26 it is for Brent crude, up about a

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third of a percent, and

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West Texas crude, $68.54, which is up
two-thirds of a percent, half a percent

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now.

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Natural gas price is down over 5%.

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The copper price, which we mentioned
earlier, has come off after an 18% move

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yesterday,

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down 3.5% today, as people say.

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Really?

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Is he going to go through with it?

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Is this going to be a taco or not?

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Trump always chickens out.

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Yeah, I reckon.

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It may be selectively applied.

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but that he'll do it i can't think that
he'll do it i mean i mean that's

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the other side and go cut off your nose to
spite your face i mean the u.s need copper

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i mean they they

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i mean the the usage from from from from
uh the u.s side is is massive

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yeah so yeah i don't know he woke up and
had a dream about copper or something and

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then

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rushed into the white house and said tell
him 50

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00:12:38.829 --> 00:12:45.685
and off went that blonde woman to the
lectern and said this is happening it's

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quite funny the way it works What else am
I looking at?

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00:12:47.685 --> 00:12:50.969
Okay, S&P 500 futures barely changed,
62.80, that's the September futures.

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The US 10-year Treasury yield was into the
4.40s and looking as though it was going

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to go mid

243
00:12:57.797 --> 00:13:01.539
4.40s and onwards with the oil price and
everything else going on and the tariffs.

244
00:13:02.086 --> 00:13:04.539
But no, it's behaving itself again, 4.38
and a bit.

245
00:13:04.976 --> 00:13:08.133
And the South African 10-year, which has
been such a good buy,

246
00:13:08.180 --> 00:13:13.789
the yield falling and obviously the bond
price itself going up 9.85% for that one.

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00:13:14.416 --> 00:13:15.997
Bitcoin stubbornly high,

248
00:13:16.237 --> 00:13:23.226
just broken up through 109,000, 109,006,

249
00:13:23.227 --> 00:13:23.927
up 0.7%.

250
00:13:24.265 --> 00:13:25.007
And what else have we got here?

251
00:13:25.008 --> 00:13:26.288
That's about it, Skulk.

252
00:13:26.429 --> 00:13:29.827
So shall we have a look at some of the
movers on the JSC?

253
00:13:30.132 --> 00:13:36.905
You've mentioned your Remgrove, and you
pointed out that you have got it, you do

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00:13:36.905 --> 00:13:38.905
like it, you do own it,

255
00:13:38.905 --> 00:13:39.187
so that's good, a transparency there.

256
00:13:39.609 --> 00:13:43.359
I've got on the upside, Italtile up 5.3%,
Alphamin up 3.8%.

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00:13:44.168 --> 00:13:47.170
Remgro, yep, 2.5% higher, 173 in a bit.

258
00:13:47.551 --> 00:13:52.315
And British American Tobacco has had a
good day as well, 2.3% higher, just over.

259
00:13:52.698 --> 00:13:57.541
Downside, Telcom, 3.6% weaker, Bytes, 3.2%
down.

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00:13:57.659 --> 00:14:03.768
In the red by 3% is Glencore, Carew down
2.6%, and Anglo-American, PLC,

261
00:14:04.034 --> 00:14:05.284
down 2.5%.

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Sculpt.

263
00:14:06.625 --> 00:14:07.325
Hmm.

264
00:14:07.325 --> 00:14:14.251
Yeah, and you're not going to remind me
again because for the past two weeks you

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00:14:14.251 --> 00:14:16.251
Remembered JC that you

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00:14:16.251 --> 00:14:18.251
we go.

267
00:14:18.251 --> 00:14:20.251
There we go.

268
00:14:20.251 --> 00:14:21.802
So I'm an interesting when you could see
the volumes definitely picked up Lately,

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00:14:21.802 --> 00:14:23.802
we you know,

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00:14:23.802 --> 00:14:28.739
we've been we've been talking about this
You can clearly see the daily daily value

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00:14:28.739 --> 00:14:30.739
traded on the J's been picking up But the
ship

272
00:14:30.739 --> 00:14:33.474
was not really reacting when you look at
the J's II itself.

273
00:14:33.864 --> 00:14:34.677
I see all shit

274
00:14:35.193 --> 00:14:41.894
A year-to-date performance is currently
literally trading at just shy of 18%

275
00:14:42.054 --> 00:14:42.754
year-to-date.

276
00:14:42.933 --> 00:14:47.074
When you look at the year-to-date
performance of the JSE itself, JSE share

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00:14:47.074 --> 00:14:47.196
price,

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00:14:47.933 --> 00:14:50.355
not even 8.5%.

279
00:14:50.356 --> 00:14:54.222
So, yeah, definitely not following suit.

280
00:14:54.691 --> 00:15:00.254
So that can either mean there's an
opportunity because we know that if your

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00:15:00.254 --> 00:15:02.254
volumes increase,

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00:15:02.254 --> 00:15:03.879
then the earnings could follow.

283
00:15:04.541 --> 00:15:06.661
Okay, well, let's talk about those volumes
in a moment.

284
00:15:06.741 --> 00:15:10.743
Yeah, give us the closing indices and the
volume to close the chat, if you would.

285
00:15:11.903 --> 00:15:17.387
So the JSEG day, close the day, as I
mentioned, literally just it's in the

286
00:15:17.387 --> 00:15:19.387
positive.

287
00:15:19.387 --> 00:15:22.043
Oh, no, actually, now with the most recent
updates, it's three basis points down.

288
00:15:22.340 --> 00:15:24.028
So flat.

289
00:15:24.122 --> 00:15:24.840
Yeah, exactly.

290
00:15:24.841 --> 00:15:27.684
So 97,230 points.

291
00:15:28.153 --> 00:15:30.590
Resources were positive with a quarter of
a percentage.

292
00:15:31.231 --> 00:15:31.931
Industrials.

293
00:15:32.385 --> 00:15:33.726
Down 11 basis points.

294
00:15:34.147 --> 00:15:37.230
Financials were flat, just flat.

295
00:15:37.249 --> 00:15:42.671
It was up one basis point while the SA
property index were up 20 basis points.

296
00:15:43.054 --> 00:15:48.734
And as you questioned, I mean, the
turnover on the JSC today,

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00:15:48.781 --> 00:15:55.327
let me quickly just refresh my screen
there because if that didn't refresh, then

298
00:15:55.327 --> 00:15:57.327
let's just quickly have a look.

299
00:15:57.327 --> 00:15:59.327
Okay.

300
00:15:59.327 --> 00:16:00.031
Bitcoin has gone back down to 109,000
while you're talking.

301
00:16:00.621 --> 00:16:02.683
S&P 500 up a quarter of a percent.

302
00:16:03.283 --> 00:16:04.166
What else have we got here?

303
00:16:04.185 --> 00:16:05.205
Nothing going on there.

304
00:16:05.267 --> 00:16:05.967
Waiting.

305
00:16:05.967 --> 00:16:07.670
People are waiting for things to happen,
Scott.

306
00:16:07.990 --> 00:16:08.690
What have you got there?

307
00:16:08.690 --> 00:16:09.408
This is the case.

308
00:16:09.509 --> 00:16:10.209
This is the case.

309
00:16:10.213 --> 00:16:15.595
I mean, yesterday we had a 20 billion day,
but the day before that, we had 14

310
00:16:15.595 --> 00:16:17.595
billion.

311
00:16:17.595 --> 00:16:18.361
The day before that, 13.4 billion.

312
00:16:18.362 --> 00:16:21.095
That's setting the tone for the rest of
the South African wind.

313
00:16:21.096 --> 00:16:22.127
There we go.

314
00:16:22.142 --> 00:16:22.842
Oh, gosh.

315
00:16:23.298 --> 00:16:27.173
And today, literally just surpassed the 15
billion mark.

316
00:16:29.408 --> 00:16:33.299
Quiet, Okay, Skalk, thanks very much for
your time this evening on this quiet day.

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00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.803
Skalk Lowe is a portfolio manager at PSG
Wealth, Old Oak in Cape Town,

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00:16:36.822 --> 00:16:41.490
and that was the

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00:16:41.592 --> 00:16:44.108
5

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00:16:44.834 --> 00:16:53.842
o'clock

321
00:16:55.108 --> 00:16:57.108
shadow.

322
00:16:58.277 --> 00:17:01.940
of the position of any other entity other
than the speaker or the author.

323
00:17:02.221 --> 00:17:07.425
And since we are critically thinking human
beings, these views are always subject to

324
00:17:07.425 --> 00:17:07.524
change,

325
00:17:07.706 --> 00:17:10.268
revision and rethinking at any time.

326
00:17:10.565 --> 00:17:12.995
Please do not hold us to them in
perpetuity.