WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.412 --> 00:00:04.554 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. 2 00:00:05.635 --> 00:00:10.638 It's Monday, so it's time for Shapiro World with David Shapiro from Sassfin 3 00:00:10.638 --> 00:00:12.638 Securities in Johannesburg. 4 00:00:12.638 --> 00:00:12.899 But he's in New York, of course. 5 00:00:12.919 --> 00:00:19.162 It's that time of year where he gets away and tests the pulse of US society, 6 00:00:19.582 --> 00:00:21.103 both economic and social. 7 00:00:21.764 --> 00:00:26.626 Now, David, you've obviously done a little bit of informal research, as only you can. 8 00:00:26.666 --> 00:00:29.608 You speak to the chap that gives you an orange juice and a bagel in the morning. 9 00:00:30.308 --> 00:00:31.369 to Iran and everything. 10 00:00:31.689 --> 00:00:35.412 What is the mood amongst average Joe? 11 00:00:37.353 --> 00:00:38.053 Very angry. 12 00:00:38.774 --> 00:00:42.697 People are, Trump has lost his credibility. 13 00:00:43.638 --> 00:00:46.660 I know that's a very bold statement for me to make, 14 00:00:48.341 --> 00:00:50.863 but people don't believe him anymore. 15 00:00:51.343 --> 00:00:57.868 You know, when he stands in front of the Air Force One, goes into, you know, all of 16 00:00:57.868 --> 00:00:59.868 a sudden now you're... 17 00:00:59.868 --> 00:01:04.192 The images that we're seeing is he talks to journalists flying around, wherever he 18 00:01:04.192 --> 00:01:06.192 is flying around. 19 00:01:06.192 --> 00:01:06.694 That's where they interview him. 20 00:01:07.174 --> 00:01:13.939 And he comes out and comes out with these views that everything's under control and 21 00:01:13.939 --> 00:01:15.939 they're making so much 22 00:01:15.939 --> 00:01:17.939 money. 23 00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:19.939 But no one believes him. 24 00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:21.445 They don't believe Lutnik anymore and they don't believe Bissent anymore, who's the 25 00:01:21.445 --> 00:01:23.445 Secretary of Treasury. 26 00:01:23.445 --> 00:01:26.188 And what makes you, why I make the statement? 27 00:01:26.724 --> 00:01:31.126 is how the market actually crashed after last Wednesday. 28 00:01:31.666 --> 00:01:33.347 You know, and the one thing that... 29 00:01:34.167 --> 00:01:36.028 I'm in the camp, I like the markets. 30 00:01:36.108 --> 00:01:39.910 I like the markets, to me, are always an indicator of sentiment. 31 00:01:40.290 --> 00:01:42.291 And, Lindsay, you know, it's bipartisan. 32 00:01:42.831 --> 00:01:45.572 In other words, it's not 33 00:01:46.293 --> 00:01:50.635 Democrats versus Republicans or the British versus the... 34 00:01:50.755 --> 00:01:51.955 It's everybody. 35 00:01:52.255 --> 00:01:53.656 You know, everybody's got to vote. 36 00:01:54.448 --> 00:02:00.170 And they all come together in the market, and that tells you what people think. 37 00:02:00.650 --> 00:02:07.532 And I think the fact that this market crashed after Trump's announcement just 38 00:02:07.532 --> 00:02:09.532 showed you how they believed in it or how they 39 00:02:09.532 --> 00:02:10.392 understood what it will do to the global economy. 40 00:02:11.012 --> 00:02:15.094 I think over and above that, and I'm going to bring Musk in at this point, 41 00:02:15.234 --> 00:02:21.875 the fact that his Tesla shares have collapsed just shows that he's now running 42 00:02:21.875 --> 00:02:23.875 a it's a 43 00:02:23.875 --> 00:02:25.875 brand that has lost its appeal. 44 00:02:25.875 --> 00:02:27.818 You know, it's a broken brand and nobody wants to buy Tesla. 45 00:02:27.878 --> 00:02:29.859 No one wants to be associated with him. 46 00:02:30.259 --> 00:02:32.340 And he's kind of shriveled out of Washington. 47 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:33.500 You don't see him anymore. 48 00:02:34.161 --> 00:02:39.643 But I think at the moment, even though the S&P is up a little bit here, 49 00:02:39.703 --> 00:02:45.646 there's a bit of a reaction because there's views now as we talk that Trump's 50 00:02:45.646 --> 00:02:47.646 going to delay 51 00:02:47.646 --> 00:02:48.867 imposing tariffs for 90 days or so on. 52 00:02:49.247 --> 00:02:50.608 I haven't seen the full news. 53 00:02:51.052 --> 00:02:55.534 But I mean, it just shows you how fast the markets have turned around, you know, on 54 00:02:55.534 --> 00:02:55.894 this. 55 00:02:55.894 --> 00:02:58.935 So whether he's blinked or not, we're not sure. 56 00:02:58.995 --> 00:03:04.258 But the point that I'm bringing across is that no one's going to believe him 57 00:03:04.258 --> 00:03:04.438 anymore. 58 00:03:04.658 --> 00:03:05.358 You know what I mean? 59 00:03:05.358 --> 00:03:09.800 No one that, you know, you know, that bravado that he had when he was elected, 60 00:03:09.820 --> 00:03:16.523 the bravado when he had when he gave his inauguration speech, all those phenomenal, 61 00:03:16.523 --> 00:03:18.523 great. 62 00:03:18.523 --> 00:03:20.523 I think people are tired of that. 63 00:03:20.523 --> 00:03:22.523 And, uh. 64 00:03:22.523 --> 00:03:26.367 I think if they had an election today around the country, I think you'd see a 65 00:03:26.367 --> 00:03:28.367 very different result coming out. 66 00:03:28.367 --> 00:03:32.009 I think people have just had enough of him and don't quite trust where he's taking 67 00:03:32.009 --> 00:03:34.009 America. 68 00:03:34.009 --> 00:03:36.951 Or put it in another way, they don't like the America that he's shaping. 69 00:03:37.771 --> 00:03:40.673 So that's from my understanding here. 70 00:03:40.674 --> 00:03:41.393 I'm in New York. 71 00:03:41.573 --> 00:03:42.693 New York's a blue state. 72 00:03:43.174 --> 00:03:44.534 It's a democratic state. 73 00:03:44.914 --> 00:03:48.876 But the people, this is not what... 74 00:03:49.876 --> 00:03:50.576 they want. 75 00:03:50.576 --> 00:03:56.119 They want to be who they used to be, a country that everybody looked upon, 76 00:03:56.599 --> 00:04:01.682 that held up in high esteem, a world leader. 77 00:04:02.602 --> 00:04:08.405 They still want to be that, although they do recognize that certain things might 78 00:04:08.405 --> 00:04:10.405 have been unfair in the past. 79 00:04:10.405 --> 00:04:12.405 We can discuss that. 80 00:04:12.405 --> 00:04:14.405 But, Lindsay, there's another point as well. 81 00:04:14.405 --> 00:04:16.405 I'm in Manhattan. 82 00:04:16.405 --> 00:04:18.405 I'm in the heart of New York. 83 00:04:18.405 --> 00:04:20.405 Yes. 84 00:04:20.405 --> 00:04:22.405 And funny enough, one of the roads that run past where I stay is Broadway. 85 00:04:22.405 --> 00:04:26.216 And one of the problems is that they've already picked up the 86 00:04:27.197 --> 00:04:28.298 anti-American feeling. 87 00:04:28.678 --> 00:04:33.703 You know, fewer Canadians are coming to America. 88 00:04:34.824 --> 00:04:36.985 So a huge amount of tourists come. 89 00:04:37.045 --> 00:04:41.029 It's very early days, you know, because this has only been going on for a short 90 00:04:41.029 --> 00:04:41.148 time. 91 00:04:41.549 --> 00:04:43.691 So fewer Canadians are coming in. 92 00:04:44.351 --> 00:04:45.092 They've noticed that. 93 00:04:45.212 --> 00:04:48.514 that Europeans are also cancelling some of their trips. 94 00:04:48.954 --> 00:04:55.498 It might not be evident yet, and it might only be a small percentage, but Manhattan 95 00:04:55.498 --> 00:04:57.498 relies on it. 96 00:04:57.498 --> 00:04:59.498 They rely on those tourists. 97 00:04:59.498 --> 00:05:01.498 It comes in summer. 98 00:05:01.498 --> 00:05:04.583 These are the tourists who kind of crowd around Fifth Avenue, or they're in Central 99 00:05:04.583 --> 00:05:06.583 Park. 100 00:05:06.583 --> 00:05:09.525 They're riding on those carriages, and they're going to Broadway. 101 00:05:09.625 --> 00:05:10.846 They're eating in the restaurants. 102 00:05:10.847 --> 00:05:13.888 They're going to the Carnegie Deli or the Carnegie... 103 00:05:15.070 --> 00:05:16.915 diner as it's now called and so on. 104 00:05:18.448 --> 00:05:21.070 So it's very important for them. 105 00:05:21.150 --> 00:05:25.573 Broadway is exceptionally important for tourists. 106 00:05:25.853 --> 00:05:27.154 They rely on the tourists. 107 00:05:27.234 --> 00:05:31.077 People come here from even out of America just to see shows. 108 00:05:31.317 --> 00:05:35.060 So I think that's a big concern. 109 00:05:35.140 --> 00:05:42.065 There's a concern that people by choice will not want to buy American goods and 110 00:05:42.065 --> 00:05:44.065 will not want to come 111 00:05:44.065 --> 00:05:44.467 and visit America as long as Trump. 112 00:05:45.059 --> 00:05:51.964 has adopted this attitude you know you've raped you've pillaged us you've what you 113 00:05:51.964 --> 00:05:53.964 know all the all the other views that he 114 00:05:53.964 --> 00:05:58.929 that he has you've ripped us off so um you know that that that's my my understanding 115 00:05:58.929 --> 00:06:00.929 from 116 00:06:00.929 --> 00:06:04.733 just talking to people around here watching them watching the local news 117 00:06:04.733 --> 00:06:06.733 which i love you know um new 118 00:06:06.733 --> 00:06:11.518 york one which is um one of the channels that i watch carefully so it's it's not a 119 00:06:11.518 --> 00:06:13.518 happy place 120 00:06:13.518 --> 00:06:17.400 okay I, as you're one of the few people that know that I had quite a bit of time 121 00:06:17.400 --> 00:06:19.400 on my hands 122 00:06:19.400 --> 00:06:19.541 last week lying around in bed. 123 00:06:19.941 --> 00:06:26.143 And one of the things I had attached to me was a load of electrodes and people were 124 00:06:26.143 --> 00:06:28.143 monitoring various 125 00:06:28.143 --> 00:06:29.264 functions, notably my heart. 126 00:06:30.164 --> 00:06:35.745 And I was sitting there and I had my, I was sitting there with my notepad and I 127 00:06:35.745 --> 00:06:37.745 started thinking about Trump. 128 00:06:37.745 --> 00:06:38.046 And I just thought, this is one man. 129 00:06:38.146 --> 00:06:41.267 Nobody else came up with this crap that he's come up with. 130 00:06:41.907 --> 00:06:43.287 about this formula. 131 00:06:43.288 --> 00:06:46.148 I mean, the formula was like baby stuff. 132 00:06:46.188 --> 00:06:48.189 It was like primary school stuff. 133 00:06:48.589 --> 00:06:51.430 And we take this and we take this and then we divide it by two. 134 00:06:52.130 --> 00:06:54.470 And that's your tariff rate. 135 00:06:54.951 --> 00:06:57.691 I mean, it was seriously embarrassing. 136 00:06:58.271 --> 00:07:01.412 But this man, he says he wants to make America great again. 137 00:07:01.432 --> 00:07:04.253 He wants to make every American wealthy. 138 00:07:04.333 --> 00:07:05.133 No, he doesn't. 139 00:07:05.834 --> 00:07:07.554 He doesn't care about America. 140 00:07:07.834 --> 00:07:09.274 He doesn't care about Americans. 141 00:07:09.475 --> 00:07:11.175 He doesn't care about his family even. 142 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:13.740 He cares about one thing, and that's Donald 143 00:07:14.201 --> 00:07:21.045 Trump. And everything he does is designed to make him look good because of his 144 00:07:21.045 --> 00:07:23.045 desperate, desperate insecurity. 145 00:07:23.045 --> 00:07:26.087 Because he is, and I think he even recognises, when he goes to bed at night, 146 00:07:26.107 --> 00:07:32.511 that he is the most spectacularly mediocre human being that's ever been in the White 147 00:07:32.511 --> 00:07:32.631 House. 148 00:07:32.851 --> 00:07:39.295 And not just ever been in the White House, that's ever, you know, tried to get into 149 00:07:39.295 --> 00:07:41.295 the White House or held public office. 150 00:07:41.295 --> 00:07:44.629 He is the most horrible, horrible, loathsome specimen that I can ever 151 00:07:44.629 --> 00:07:44.669 remember. 152 00:07:44.669 --> 00:07:45.489 I don't hate people. 153 00:07:45.709 --> 00:07:48.351 In my later years, I always said, you mustn't hate people. 154 00:07:48.391 --> 00:07:49.091 That's too strong. 155 00:07:49.131 --> 00:07:49.871 Just ignore them. 156 00:07:50.211 --> 00:07:51.292 But you can't ignore him. 157 00:07:51.332 --> 00:07:52.212 That's the thing, David. 158 00:07:52.512 --> 00:07:53.773 You cannot ignore Trump. 159 00:07:53.793 --> 00:07:58.795 You turn on the television and there he is making up some lies. 160 00:08:00.335 --> 00:08:06.158 One of his great things is like you've never seen before, like the world's never 161 00:08:06.158 --> 00:08:08.158 seen before. 162 00:08:08.158 --> 00:08:08.659 And it's trillions coming in because of my tariffs. 163 00:08:09.059 --> 00:08:14.702 And now, having said, and all his boot-licking toady sycophants have said, 164 00:08:15.282 --> 00:08:16.502 he's not going to change his mind. 165 00:08:16.923 --> 00:08:19.584 Well, he's just changed his mind, hasn't he, as we've been speaking? 166 00:08:20.264 --> 00:08:20.964 We don't. 167 00:08:20.964 --> 00:08:22.025 I'm still waiting. 168 00:08:22.045 --> 00:08:27.907 I hope you've got the headlines there, because I've only picked it up as a banner 169 00:08:27.907 --> 00:08:29.907 headline that came across my screen. 170 00:08:29.907 --> 00:08:35.030 But I think there is so much pressure on him to do so from people who supported 171 00:08:35.030 --> 00:08:35.070 him, 172 00:08:35.111 --> 00:08:36.071 like Bill Ackman. 173 00:08:37.576 --> 00:08:42.700 I'm trying to think of the other fund manager that's also gone negative on him. 174 00:08:42.760 --> 00:08:43.460 They're quite a few. 175 00:08:43.460 --> 00:08:49.766 Jamie Diamond has also come out this afternoon and said, this morning New York 176 00:08:49.766 --> 00:08:51.766 time, has come out against it as well. 177 00:08:51.766 --> 00:08:55.871 But the problem with the market is a 90-day, what's the word I'm looking for? 178 00:08:55.872 --> 00:08:56.572 Delay. 179 00:08:56.892 --> 00:08:57.592 Delay. 180 00:08:57.592 --> 00:08:57.993 There's another word. 181 00:08:58.033 --> 00:08:59.674 Exponement, yeah. 182 00:08:59.694 --> 00:09:00.394 Yeah. 183 00:09:00.575 --> 00:09:01.796 A stay of execution. 184 00:09:01.856 --> 00:09:02.877 That's the phrase. 185 00:09:03.177 --> 00:09:04.819 A 90-day stay of execution. 186 00:09:05.347 --> 00:09:06.568 It's not fooling the market. 187 00:09:06.588 --> 00:09:10.269 And you said to me off air, people don't believe him anymore. 188 00:09:10.309 --> 00:09:11.470 They're fed up with his lies. 189 00:09:11.670 --> 00:09:16.632 The S&P was down 4% on the opening, within the first half hour of opening. 190 00:09:16.912 --> 00:09:22.115 It then rallied as we were on air by about 3.5%. 191 00:09:22.116 --> 00:09:26.517 So a 7.5% swing, it's now flat again, the futures that is. 192 00:09:26.957 --> 00:09:31.899 So people are saying, okay, we were short the market, we covered half of our shorts. 193 00:09:32.439 --> 00:09:38.321 But we're going to reinstate them again if it rallies anymore, because this is not 194 00:09:38.321 --> 00:09:40.321 going to solve itself. 195 00:09:40.321 --> 00:09:42.323 And even if you banned all tariffs now, the damage is done. 196 00:09:42.723 --> 00:09:44.263 The stock market has fallen. 197 00:09:45.404 --> 00:09:49.745 S&P's, sorry, NASDAQ's fallen more than 20%, so technically in a bear market. 198 00:09:50.226 --> 00:09:51.626 S&P close to doing so. 199 00:09:53.187 --> 00:09:53.987 That's right. 200 00:09:53.988 --> 00:09:57.088 The credibility is not there to buy the market yet. 201 00:09:57.828 --> 00:09:58.709 So you're right. 202 00:09:58.789 --> 00:09:59.789 People just don't. 203 00:10:00.561 --> 00:10:04.164 don't know what's going to come out of his mouth, you know, in the next day or so. 204 00:10:06.785 --> 00:10:10.027 And as I say, Lindsay, people are getting bored of him. 205 00:10:10.348 --> 00:10:11.589 You know, they're tired of him. 206 00:10:11.969 --> 00:10:15.972 They're tired of the, they heard it for four years and they thought things might 207 00:10:15.972 --> 00:10:16.091 change. 208 00:10:16.091 --> 00:10:17.192 In fact, it's become worse. 209 00:10:17.713 --> 00:10:24.217 And, you know, the adjectives that he uses, his invictive that he uses, you 210 00:10:24.217 --> 00:10:26.217 know, is that the right word? 211 00:10:26.217 --> 00:10:28.217 You know, he's vicious. 212 00:10:28.217 --> 00:10:29.781 And I think just people want him to go away. 213 00:10:30.309 --> 00:10:32.231 kind of thing or whatever it is. 214 00:10:32.311 --> 00:10:35.954 Just say, you know, they want responsible managers. 215 00:10:35.994 --> 00:10:37.035 They don't want showmen. 216 00:10:37.115 --> 00:10:43.820 They don't want someone insulting their neighbours and insulting their allies or 217 00:10:43.820 --> 00:10:44.260 their 218 00:10:44.260 --> 00:10:44.560 friends. 219 00:10:45.542 --> 00:10:51.867 So, you know, yes, he might have those fringe supporters who live in caves 220 00:10:51.867 --> 00:10:53.867 somewhere in Tennessee or, 221 00:10:53.867 --> 00:10:55.867 I don't know, Montana. 222 00:10:55.867 --> 00:10:57.867 I don't know. 223 00:10:57.867 --> 00:10:59.867 You know, those chaps who come out in bearskins and they've got big knives. 224 00:10:59.867 --> 00:11:01.867 You know, but I think... 225 00:11:01.867 --> 00:11:06.197 Brian Lodge, the East Coast, West Coast, the Chicago's, I think, I believe have had 226 00:11:06.197 --> 00:11:06.417 enough. 227 00:11:06.817 --> 00:11:11.239 And the way that he doesn't listen to people, you know, 228 00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:18.503 it's whether it's Larry Summers, whether it's Warren Buffett, whether it's The 229 00:11:18.503 --> 00:11:20.503 Economist, The Wall Street Journal, 230 00:11:20.503 --> 00:11:25.507 Bloomberg, you name it, everybody has been scathing about his imposition of these 231 00:11:25.507 --> 00:11:27.507 tariffs and the fact 232 00:11:27.507 --> 00:11:29.507 that he doesn't listen to anybody. 233 00:11:29.507 --> 00:11:31.507 Even Scott Besant. 234 00:11:31.507 --> 00:11:33.352 wasn't there when they came up with these calculations. 235 00:11:33.713 --> 00:11:36.295 No one can understand how they got to these levels. 236 00:11:37.136 --> 00:11:42.880 And it's, you know, to go back to Ricardian, what's it, 237 00:11:43.060 --> 00:11:49.706 Ricardo's views, you know, that you should have reciprocal, you know, there should be 238 00:11:49.706 --> 00:11:51.706 balance between. 239 00:11:51.706 --> 00:11:52.468 But he was from a different age. 240 00:11:52.488 --> 00:11:57.953 You know, in other words, if I buy from you, you buy from me, and it evens itself 241 00:11:57.953 --> 00:11:57.992 out. 242 00:11:58.293 --> 00:11:59.394 Well, you can't do that. 243 00:11:59.714 --> 00:12:01.235 And, Lindsay, the story, 244 00:12:01.375 --> 00:12:07.098 one of the funniest stories or sad story is Lesotho. 245 00:12:07.558 --> 00:12:08.699 You know where Lesotho is. 246 00:12:08.999 --> 00:12:10.600 It's used to be called Basotho Land. 247 00:12:11.300 --> 00:12:15.362 The people there, it's a very high, it's in the Drakensberg. 248 00:12:15.363 --> 00:12:16.483 It can be very cold. 249 00:12:16.883 --> 00:12:21.025 But what's happened is that factories have opened there where they make Levi jeans, 250 00:12:21.026 --> 00:12:25.268 and I think they make Calvin Klein clothing as well. 251 00:12:25.788 --> 00:12:27.529 So you're supporting a very… 252 00:12:27.753 --> 00:12:34.256 poor population the last thing that those people can do and admittedly there might 253 00:12:34.256 --> 00:12:36.256 be some something 254 00:12:36.256 --> 00:12:41.299 sinister because probably those factories are owned by chinese or proxies of the 255 00:12:41.299 --> 00:12:43.299 chinese you know because they 256 00:12:43.299 --> 00:12:45.761 get around quotas by by moving their factories to other lands but 257 00:12:45.781 --> 00:12:52.364 i mean still at the end of the day and that's what i'm saying at the end of the 258 00:12:52.364 --> 00:12:54.364 day you're supplying you're giving work 259 00:12:54.364 --> 00:12:59.411 to this poor nation whatever it is So whether it's owned by Chinese, whoever it 260 00:12:59.411 --> 00:13:01.411 is, yes, okay, 261 00:13:01.411 --> 00:13:05.475 come down around the table, sell those factories to Americans, but whatever, I 262 00:13:05.475 --> 00:13:05.735 don't know. 263 00:13:05.775 --> 00:13:12.440 But that's the kind of outcomes that you're going to have where 264 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:18.104 nations like Mauritius, like Lesotho, so on, 265 00:13:18.524 --> 00:13:21.766 are going to be absolutely decimated by these policies. 266 00:13:22.767 --> 00:13:25.809 And they're not going to be first in line to negotiate. 267 00:13:26.645 --> 00:13:32.889 So I just think a lot more thought should have been applied and say, look, 268 00:13:32.989 --> 00:13:34.089 this is what we're going to do. 269 00:13:35.530 --> 00:13:36.791 You know, this is what we're going to do. 270 00:13:36.831 --> 00:13:37.871 This is what we intend to. 271 00:13:37.971 --> 00:13:40.033 It's not fair, but let's negotiate this. 272 00:13:40.333 --> 00:13:41.673 But he's not that kind of person. 273 00:13:42.794 --> 00:13:43.494 He's not. 274 00:13:43.494 --> 00:13:44.755 I guess where he was on the weekend. 275 00:13:44.815 --> 00:13:46.656 Well, I know what happened over the weekend. 276 00:13:47.216 --> 00:13:53.920 This was a real kick in the teeth for the average American because he's playing golf 277 00:13:53.920 --> 00:13:55.920 in Estinia's tournament. 278 00:13:55.920 --> 00:13:57.920 And, um... 279 00:13:57.920 --> 00:14:03.649 This was when people had had time to reflect on Thursdays and Fridays, very 280 00:14:03.649 --> 00:14:05.649 sinister action, because I thought Thursday, 281 00:14:05.649 --> 00:14:07.649 that was it. 282 00:14:07.649 --> 00:14:09.532 It was going to be a quick washout, you know, 5, 6 percent on all the major 283 00:14:09.532 --> 00:14:11.532 indices. 284 00:14:11.532 --> 00:14:11.814 And I thought it can't happen again on the Friday. 285 00:14:12.274 --> 00:14:13.335 But goodness me, it did. 286 00:14:14.235 --> 00:14:15.636 And more in some cases. 287 00:14:16.236 --> 00:14:18.097 And so the market closed on Friday. 288 00:14:18.457 --> 00:14:23.220 Saturday, he plays his golf and he goes through to the next round of the seniors 289 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:25.220 tournament. 290 00:14:25.220 --> 00:14:27.220 And then there's a White House. 291 00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:31.196 Communique comes out and you think, oh, he's going to say something about the 292 00:14:31.196 --> 00:14:33.196 stock market and, you know. 293 00:14:33.196 --> 00:14:35.196 I know. 294 00:14:35.196 --> 00:14:37.196 But no, it said, we're pleased to announce that Mr. 295 00:14:37.196 --> 00:14:38.019 Trump won his round and went into the next round and said, just spoke about the Gulf. 296 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:41.381 And it was really sarcastic and nasty, I thought. 297 00:14:41.521 --> 00:14:42.221 Yeah. 298 00:14:42.289 --> 00:14:45.091 And golf is an elitist sport. 299 00:14:45.291 --> 00:14:46.231 Not everybody can. 300 00:14:46.371 --> 00:14:48.012 I find that so insulting. 301 00:14:48.352 --> 00:14:53.555 And there's already, you know who one of the most popular figures around us is 302 00:14:53.555 --> 00:14:55.555 Bernie Sanders. 303 00:14:55.555 --> 00:14:56.637 Yes, he did a tap on the other night and they loved him. 304 00:14:57.437 --> 00:15:03.721 They love him because he's walking around that Trump is basically supporting 305 00:15:03.721 --> 00:15:05.721 billionaires. 306 00:15:05.721 --> 00:15:09.024 And he's referring to the inauguration where you had all the tech billionaires 307 00:15:09.024 --> 00:15:11.024 around there. 308 00:15:11.024 --> 00:15:11.285 And you've got Elon Musk and so on. 309 00:15:11.857 --> 00:15:17.722 So he's gaining a lot of support as well, for whatever reason, around, you know, 310 00:15:17.982 --> 00:15:21.846 around his views, because he's deeply socialist, you know, he's deeply left. 311 00:15:22.506 --> 00:15:25.249 He's bordering on Marxist, actually. 312 00:15:25.269 --> 00:15:27.591 Oh, well. 313 00:15:27.592 --> 00:15:30.873 He's an independent, you know, but I mean… He's a decent fellow, though. 314 00:15:30.874 --> 00:15:31.594 He means well, I think. 315 00:15:32.695 --> 00:15:34.577 But you don't do that. 316 00:15:34.578 --> 00:15:41.574 You know, you want to play golf, you don't go put out at a time where people are 317 00:15:41.574 --> 00:15:43.574 losing their… Lindsay, $5 trillion. 318 00:15:43.676 --> 00:15:48.220 S&P 500 companies have lost over $5 trillion of worth. 319 00:15:49.161 --> 00:15:53.425 If we add on today, because we're back in negative territory, you're going to get 320 00:15:53.425 --> 00:15:53.465 this volatility. 321 00:15:53.465 --> 00:15:54.126 Look at that. 322 00:15:54.126 --> 00:15:56.828 It was 3.5% up, now 1.6% down. 323 00:15:57.169 --> 00:15:59.230 This is astonishing volatility, David. 324 00:15:59.411 --> 00:16:00.612 I don't know what the VIX has done. 325 00:16:00.613 --> 00:16:02.594 It's probably gone into the 40s, 50s. 326 00:16:03.634 --> 00:16:06.137 But it's unbelievable. 327 00:16:06.537 --> 00:16:09.758 Musk is an interesting case point because he's obviously been banished. 328 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:16.501 He didn't go to the ridiculous Liberation Day speech where he held up that cardboard 329 00:16:16.621 --> 00:16:17.321 thing. 330 00:16:18.302 --> 00:16:19.002 What was that? 331 00:16:19.002 --> 00:16:20.283 Why couldn't he get a stand for it? 332 00:16:21.063 --> 00:16:23.104 And a pointer and say, right, there we go, that's it. 333 00:16:23.284 --> 00:16:24.204 He had to stand there. 334 00:16:24.244 --> 00:16:25.225 So undignified. 335 00:16:26.085 --> 00:16:27.526 Does he not know how foolish he looks? 336 00:16:27.546 --> 00:16:28.986 He's the President of the United States. 337 00:16:29.547 --> 00:16:32.408 You've got millions of people that could stand around and hold it for you. 338 00:16:32.428 --> 00:16:33.928 But no, you do it yourself. 339 00:16:34.048 --> 00:16:35.029 It looks so awkward. 340 00:16:35.549 --> 00:16:36.550 But Musk wasn't there. 341 00:16:37.410 --> 00:16:42.094 And the interesting thing is that I think behind the scenes, Musk and Trump don't 342 00:16:42.094 --> 00:16:44.094 always agree. 343 00:16:44.094 --> 00:16:45.956 In fact, Trump said as much in an interview. 344 00:16:46.657 --> 00:16:53.101 But he went to, Musk that is, flew to a right-wing political conference in Italy. 345 00:16:53.161 --> 00:16:55.323 Obviously, Italy run by that right-wing woman. 346 00:16:55.363 --> 00:16:56.063 What's her name? 347 00:16:57.284 --> 00:16:58.445 Melania. 348 00:16:58.545 --> 00:16:59.245 Melania. 349 00:16:59.245 --> 00:17:00.046 Melania something or other. 350 00:17:01.267 --> 00:17:04.149 And he said, I really think that there should be. 351 00:17:04.789 --> 00:17:07.771 zero tariffs between the European Union and the United States. 352 00:17:07.791 --> 00:17:09.352 In other words, a free trade zone. 353 00:17:10.053 --> 00:17:15.056 I mean, Trump must have been gnashing his super white teeth over when he heard that. 354 00:17:15.657 --> 00:17:22.641 Yeah, he lost all credibility on this election up in Wisconsin for the judge of 355 00:17:22.641 --> 00:17:23.121 the 356 00:17:23.121 --> 00:17:27.044 Supreme Court, you know, between a liberal and a conservative. 357 00:17:27.064 --> 00:17:28.225 They didn't say Democrat. 358 00:17:28.305 --> 00:17:33.429 Well, the Democrats supported the liberals and the Republicans supported the 359 00:17:33.429 --> 00:17:35.429 conservative. 360 00:17:35.429 --> 00:17:38.031 And Trump, I mean, Musk sunk $26 million. 361 00:17:38.032 --> 00:17:42.254 He was there handing out those million-dollar checks again, as he did 362 00:17:42.254 --> 00:17:44.254 during the day. 363 00:17:44.254 --> 00:17:47.937 And the conservative judge or the candidate got thumped, 364 00:17:48.677 --> 00:17:50.678 55 to 45. 365 00:17:50.679 --> 00:17:52.920 Yeah, 10 or 15 points, whatever it was, yeah. 366 00:17:53.320 --> 00:17:56.181 Which is huge in terms of that area. 367 00:17:56.822 --> 00:18:02.885 And, you know, all it shows is, I mean, it was a humiliating loss, and that was the 368 00:18:02.885 --> 00:18:04.885 end of Musk. Yeah. 369 00:18:04.885 --> 00:18:07.087 His share prices, his share, I don't know, it's down another 6%, 7%. 370 00:18:07.147 --> 00:18:08.027 I haven't seen lately. 371 00:18:08.507 --> 00:18:10.028 But, I mean, he's lost all his value. 372 00:18:10.088 --> 00:18:13.930 No one wants to touch a Tesla share, Tesla car. 373 00:18:14.490 --> 00:18:16.571 You know, there's protests around the world. 374 00:18:17.111 --> 00:18:20.693 So, this is going to come back to bite him heavily. 375 00:18:20.833 --> 00:18:26.635 Yeah, he might still be the world's richest person, but I think it's going to 376 00:18:26.635 --> 00:18:28.635 reflect on the brand. 377 00:18:28.635 --> 00:18:33.876 So, in my view, that gives you… what people think of Musk, what they think of 378 00:18:33.876 --> 00:18:34.115 Trump, 379 00:18:34.115 --> 00:18:35.497 what they think of his policies. 380 00:18:35.957 --> 00:18:36.758 You know, there it is. 381 00:18:36.858 --> 00:18:38.520 And that's why I love the market. 382 00:18:39.260 --> 00:18:41.883 It's a very good gauge of people's sentiment. 383 00:18:42.624 --> 00:18:46.327 And, you know, it's around that that I say Trump has lost it. 384 00:18:46.807 --> 00:18:49.670 What was the high on Tesla? 385 00:18:49.730 --> 00:18:55.155 Sorry to interrupt you, but I've got my Tesla price here, 228 we'll call it, 386 00:18:55.156 --> 00:18:56.876 down nearly 5%. 387 00:18:58.093 --> 00:19:00.155 I think it was 488, wasn't it, the high? 388 00:19:00.675 --> 00:19:01.896 I'm going to give it to you now. 389 00:19:02.436 --> 00:19:03.517 Last year or something. 390 00:19:04.498 --> 00:19:11.122 I'll give you a, if my computer could work fast, it would be fine. 391 00:19:12.163 --> 00:19:16.586 But it's, you know, it had a rally recently, 392 00:19:16.846 --> 00:19:19.808 and it's given that back plus change. 393 00:19:19.888 --> 00:19:21.810 It's been a huge fall. 394 00:19:22.110 --> 00:19:24.712 It went into the 180s, sorry, 280s, I think. 395 00:19:24.752 --> 00:19:25.672 There you are. 396 00:19:26.373 --> 00:19:27.073 Where was it? 397 00:19:27.293 --> 00:19:27.993 W.H. 398 00:19:27.993 --> 00:19:32.516 Whitehouse Press Secretary, Caroline Leavitt, or Leavitt, or whatever her name 399 00:19:32.516 --> 00:19:32.997 is. 400 00:19:32.997 --> 00:19:33.697 Oh, she's a nasty little... 401 00:19:33.917 --> 00:19:34.617 Terrible. 402 00:19:34.617 --> 00:19:35.097 So-and-so. 403 00:19:35.097 --> 00:19:37.779 Potential 90-day pause in... 404 00:19:38.139 --> 00:19:40.100 Oh, oh, as fake news. 405 00:19:43.085 --> 00:19:45.647 Oh, that's why. 406 00:19:45.648 --> 00:19:49.289 Someone was short the market, wanted to get low. 407 00:19:49.569 --> 00:19:53.631 Because there's been so much demand for that. 408 00:19:54.512 --> 00:20:01.295 Okay, so that explains a complete reversal of that. 409 00:20:02.256 --> 00:20:04.837 But I mean, there was hope for a second. 410 00:20:05.478 --> 00:20:06.598 Then we go into Tesla. 411 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:09.600 So Tesla reached a high. 412 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:11.340 Of? 413 00:20:11.340 --> 00:20:12.121 488. 414 00:20:13.061 --> 00:20:13.981 262. 415 00:20:13.982 --> 00:20:14.682 On a close. 416 00:20:14.682 --> 00:20:15.882 I think that was like. 417 00:20:15.883 --> 00:20:17.762 479, 480. 418 00:20:17.842 --> 00:20:18.542 So you're right. 419 00:20:18.882 --> 00:20:19.582 Okay. 420 00:20:19.582 --> 00:20:24.564 Which was on the 17th of December, and it's now down at 227. 421 00:20:24.664 --> 00:20:26.185 So it's virtually halved. 422 00:20:26.665 --> 00:20:30.926 Well, it's more than halved if you take the intraday high, which I think was 488. 423 00:20:30.927 --> 00:20:33.507 But the point is that for a stock like that. 424 00:20:33.867 --> 00:20:38.028 And the interesting thing about it is it's not just because of Musk's 425 00:20:38.660 --> 00:20:45.185 absurd antics with chainsaws and jumping up and down like a like a like a gibbon at 426 00:20:45.545 --> 00:20:52.210 rallies with trump it's also because um chinese chinese 427 00:20:52.710 --> 00:20:54.371 electric vehicles are 428 00:20:54.471 --> 00:21:01.356 outstripping him when it comes to technology and affordability they've got 429 00:21:01.356 --> 00:21:03.356 more gizmos more 430 00:21:03.356 --> 00:21:08.236 gadgets and it costs costs less um that's the first thing the second thing is 431 00:21:08.236 --> 00:21:10.236 Obviously, Tesla's, 432 00:21:10.236 --> 00:21:12.236 by comparison, more expensive. 433 00:21:12.236 --> 00:21:12.558 And it's an aging fleet, David. 434 00:21:12.878 --> 00:21:15.038 They haven't got any new models coming through. 435 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:15.739 They haven't had any. 436 00:21:15.998 --> 00:21:21.540 And the reason for that is that Musk has said, no, I want to muck about at the 437 00:21:21.540 --> 00:21:21.561 White House. 438 00:21:22.360 --> 00:21:27.362 And if there's no direction to Chukot, your CEO is very important, even if he's 439 00:21:27.362 --> 00:21:29.362 not on the shop floor every day. 440 00:21:29.422 --> 00:21:30.923 He's a talisman to the company. 441 00:21:30.924 --> 00:21:33.403 Well, it's hurting the people who work for him. 442 00:21:33.683 --> 00:21:34.964 It's hurting the distributors. 443 00:21:35.024 --> 00:21:36.084 It's hurting everybody. 444 00:21:36.504 --> 00:21:38.205 That's associated with this company. 445 00:21:38.225 --> 00:21:42.228 You know, people don't want to buy Teslas. 446 00:21:42.909 --> 00:21:47.712 You know, and even my daughter who works, who drives one in, 447 00:21:48.212 --> 00:21:53.756 who's had one for a few years and is, you know, it's on lease, so she's giving it 448 00:21:53.756 --> 00:21:55.756 back in August. 449 00:21:55.756 --> 00:21:57.499 But she said, you know, she's driven past people in Boston who booed her. 450 00:21:58.479 --> 00:22:03.983 There have been, you know, there has been some kind of backlash against them. 451 00:22:05.652 --> 00:22:10.096 writing all over the motor cars and so on. 452 00:22:10.516 --> 00:22:12.938 But I mean, you get booed if you drive a Tesla. 453 00:22:13.999 --> 00:22:19.283 The interesting point I wanted to make is that, if you look at a five-year cycle, 454 00:22:21.065 --> 00:22:26.389 if you look at a five-year cycle on the market, remember we bring in 2020. 455 00:22:26.489 --> 00:22:30.112 So you're getting that distorted view of that huge gain that happened. 456 00:22:30.113 --> 00:22:34.576 If we take it down to a four-year cycle, you're looking at... 457 00:22:34.716 --> 00:22:36.998 Tesla over five, four years has done nothing. 458 00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:41.281 It's now back where it was four years ago. 459 00:22:41.861 --> 00:22:46.905 So the five-year gives it the COVID bounce, but I mean, 460 00:22:46.945 --> 00:22:52.969 take out the COVID bounce and you're back to, you've done nothing over four years. 461 00:22:52.989 --> 00:22:53.689 You're up 2%. 462 00:22:53.689 --> 00:22:59.094 So it gives you an idea of how Tesla has performed and what this means to his 463 00:22:59.094 --> 00:22:59.273 wealth. 464 00:23:00.114 --> 00:23:02.236 I really wish I'd had my video camera about... 465 00:23:02.396 --> 00:23:09.242 two weeks ago when when Tesla was starting to exert some negative influence 466 00:23:09.342 --> 00:23:12.665 on on on people who didn't like Tesla owners 467 00:23:13.786 --> 00:23:20.692 I I there's a street cat that comes and visits me every day and he when he wants 468 00:23:20.692 --> 00:23:22.692 to leave he meows at the door and I 469 00:23:22.692 --> 00:23:27.618 let him out and watch what he's up to and there's a car next door the next door 470 00:23:27.618 --> 00:23:29.618 neighbor you're not allowed to park 471 00:23:29.618 --> 00:23:32.101 in my street you but if you've got a residence permit You can park there for 472 00:23:32.101 --> 00:23:34.101 half an hour or something. 473 00:23:34.101 --> 00:23:35.164 And he's got a Tesla. 474 00:23:36.505 --> 00:23:42.570 And the cat went up to the Tesla, looked at it, turned round, 475 00:23:43.270 --> 00:23:45.932 lifted his tail and peed on it. 476 00:23:47.774 --> 00:23:50.456 And I thought, this is a clever cat, this one. 477 00:23:50.716 --> 00:23:54.039 But more seriously, there's been some horrible violence. 478 00:23:55.580 --> 00:24:01.002 I think the best way you can protest against Tesla is sell the one you've got 479 00:24:01.002 --> 00:24:03.002 now or don't buy the one you were planning to buy. 480 00:24:03.002 --> 00:24:05.144 Yeah. 481 00:24:05.145 --> 00:24:05.884 It'll tell on him. 482 00:24:06.845 --> 00:24:12.027 And he's the kind of person who would get up and get a crowd reaction. 483 00:24:12.207 --> 00:24:12.907 Not anymore. 484 00:24:13.128 --> 00:24:13.828 I don't think. 485 00:24:13.928 --> 00:24:20.331 You know, the protests that we saw around the country on Saturday, across the 486 00:24:20.331 --> 00:24:22.331 country, across every state, including Washington. 487 00:24:22.331 --> 00:24:24.331 50 states, yes, exactly. 488 00:24:24.331 --> 00:24:26.331 There are thousands of people. 489 00:24:26.331 --> 00:24:28.331 came out there. 490 00:24:28.331 --> 00:24:30.331 I saw them in New York here as well. 491 00:24:30.331 --> 00:24:33.036 Yes, you know, some of these are seasoned protesters, you know, who were still 492 00:24:33.036 --> 00:24:35.036 around in the 60s and so on. 493 00:24:35.036 --> 00:24:37.036 It doesn't matter. 494 00:24:37.036 --> 00:24:41.979 Whatever it is, there are people who are very angry about what's happening, the 495 00:24:41.979 --> 00:24:43.979 loss of jobs, particularly in critical agencies. 496 00:24:43.979 --> 00:24:45.200 Not much thought has gone into it. 497 00:24:45.948 --> 00:24:47.809 And I think that's why they're angry. 498 00:24:47.869 --> 00:24:51.131 They're also angry that their prices are going to go up, you know, 499 00:24:51.551 --> 00:24:54.893 from everything from buying a motor car to buying an avocado. 500 00:24:55.633 --> 00:24:57.374 And it's soon to hit them. 501 00:24:57.375 --> 00:25:00.256 And they haven't got that margin anymore that they used to have. 502 00:25:00.676 --> 00:25:01.376 You know, it's gained. 503 00:25:01.576 --> 00:25:03.397 This is a tax on the people of America. 504 00:25:04.238 --> 00:25:07.400 Yes, you know, there's a promise of tax reductions coming. 505 00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:13.703 In fact, those tax reductions are nothing more than extending what was to be phased 506 00:25:13.703 --> 00:25:13.823 out. 507 00:25:14.663 --> 00:25:15.363 So. 508 00:25:15.820 --> 00:25:22.002 David, let's look at the JSC now because we've completely ignored it, but it's 509 00:25:22.002 --> 00:25:24.002 entirely justifiable. 510 00:25:24.002 --> 00:25:26.943 The all share and everything are doing pretty well, resources doing pretty well. 511 00:25:27.163 --> 00:25:32.165 But then you look to the right hand side of my screen, you see why it's doing well, 512 00:25:32.165 --> 00:25:34.165 because the RAND is an 18 month low. 513 00:25:34.165 --> 00:25:37.226 In fact, it's probably approaching all time record lows in real trade. 514 00:25:37.227 --> 00:25:40.327 I mean, it's done some overnight stuff in Nene Gate and things like that. 515 00:25:40.367 --> 00:25:43.408 But anyway, around about 1950. 516 00:25:43.788 --> 00:25:44.688 That's really bad. 517 00:25:44.868 --> 00:25:46.189 It's very bad for the country. 518 00:25:46.309 --> 00:25:47.009 I'm sorry. 519 00:25:47.009 --> 00:25:48.450 That's a reflection of two things. 520 00:25:48.490 --> 00:25:53.491 It's a reflection of Trump tariffs and what this will mean. 521 00:25:53.551 --> 00:26:00.353 And also, I think, concerns about the government and national unity and the 522 00:26:00.353 --> 00:26:02.353 budget and where South 523 00:26:02.353 --> 00:26:04.353 Africa's economy goes. 524 00:26:04.353 --> 00:26:06.353 Yeah. 525 00:26:06.353 --> 00:26:08.353 So I think it's two-way. 526 00:26:08.353 --> 00:26:10.353 You know, it's... 527 00:26:10.353 --> 00:26:12.353 But, yeah, where is it now? 528 00:26:12.353 --> 00:26:14.353 1948, 1949. 529 00:26:14.353 --> 00:26:14.605 Yes, 1948, exactly. 530 00:26:14.606 --> 00:26:15.306 Horrible stuff. 531 00:26:15.385 --> 00:26:18.348 Okay, David, otherwise, how long are you there for? 532 00:26:19.569 --> 00:26:20.570 No, I'm still here until May. 533 00:26:20.870 --> 00:26:21.570 May? 534 00:26:22.511 --> 00:26:24.493 We're going into Easter and Passover. 535 00:26:24.753 --> 00:26:25.754 Of course, yes, yes. 536 00:26:25.755 --> 00:26:26.875 I'm going up to Boston. 537 00:26:27.135 --> 00:26:28.316 My daughter's in Portugal. 538 00:26:28.416 --> 00:26:30.297 My kids are flying all over the place. 539 00:26:30.298 --> 00:26:33.380 So I'm going up there next Sunday, on Sunday, 540 00:26:33.460 --> 00:26:38.164 and I'll be there for the Easter and Passover and then come back here and 541 00:26:38.164 --> 00:26:38.524 then... 542 00:26:38.540 --> 00:26:43.062 back home. 543 00:26:43.063 --> 00:26:43.763 So, help. 544 00:26:43.763 --> 00:26:44.422 Well, good luck with that. 545 00:26:44.803 --> 00:26:46.143 I wish you well over Passover. 546 00:26:46.643 --> 00:26:50.485 And you'll be, what days might you not be available, David? 547 00:26:51.145 --> 00:26:53.246 No, I'm always available. 548 00:26:53.247 --> 00:26:55.887 All right. 549 00:26:56.187 --> 00:27:02.710 In that case, we'll speak to Viv on Thursday because we haven't had that 550 00:27:02.710 --> 00:27:04.710 little three-way feast of 551 00:27:04.710 --> 00:27:06.710 reason for quite a while. 552 00:27:06.710 --> 00:27:06.852 So, I'll book you for Thursday with Viv Govender. 553 00:27:07.412 --> 00:27:12.434 Greg Shapiro is from Sasson Securities in New York, and that was Shapiro World. 554 00:27:13.114 --> 00:27:20.057 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and 555 00:27:20.057 --> 00:27:22.057 various contributors and do not reflect the policy, 556 00:27:22.057 --> 00:27:24.579 position, or opinion of any other agency, organization, employer, 557 00:27:24.919 --> 00:27:28.761 or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 558 00:27:29.241 --> 00:27:36.204 Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the position of any other 559 00:27:36.204 --> 00:27:38.204 entity other than the speaker or the author. 560 00:27:38.204 --> 00:27:41.670 And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to 561 00:27:41.670 --> 00:27:41.789 change, 562 00:27:41.950 --> 00:27:44.513 revision and rethinking at any time. 563 00:27:44.813 --> 00:27:47.236 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.