WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.404 --> 00:00:05.986 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. 2 00:00:05.986 --> 00:00:09.146 The JSC has closed its doors for another day and indeed another week. 3 00:00:09.266 --> 00:00:12.827 Although it's Thursday, tomorrow is Human Rights Day in South Africa. 4 00:00:13.007 --> 00:00:14.708 So it's a long weekend coming up. 5 00:00:14.768 --> 00:00:18.029 With me is Viv Govender from Ransuisse in Johannesburg. 6 00:00:18.289 --> 00:00:23.390 And he's joined, as always, by David Shapiro from Sassvin Securities in that 7 00:00:23.390 --> 00:00:25.390 same city. 8 00:00:25.390 --> 00:00:27.390 Viv, can I start with you? 9 00:00:27.390 --> 00:00:29.390 Three central banks this week. 10 00:00:29.390 --> 00:00:29.752 We had the Bank of Japan held their rate at, what is it? 11 00:00:29.792 --> 00:00:31.874 a quarter of a percent or half a percent or something. 12 00:00:32.474 --> 00:00:35.777 US Federal Reserve last night keeping their rate unchanged as well, 13 00:00:35.777 --> 00:00:41.663 but quite a dovish sort of commentary around that from the Fed chair, Jerome 14 00:00:41.663 --> 00:00:43.663 Powell, 15 00:00:43.663 --> 00:00:45.807 and then the Bank of England today also unchanged. 16 00:00:46.647 --> 00:00:52.132 And you've got the JN, you've got the Reserve Bank. 17 00:00:52.132 --> 00:00:52.812 The Reserve Bank, us. 18 00:00:52.812 --> 00:00:53.293 Yeah, us, yeah. 19 00:00:53.293 --> 00:00:53.493 Oh, of course, yes. 20 00:00:53.493 --> 00:00:53.794 I forgot about that. 21 00:00:53.854 --> 00:00:55.956 So that's the Reserve Bank unchanged. 22 00:00:56.296 --> 00:00:59.137 Maybe wrap up the central bank situation for us a few words. 23 00:00:59.157 --> 00:01:01.677 Sorry about that. 24 00:01:01.697 --> 00:01:06.379 Basically, we're over the guaranteed rate cut future. 25 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:10.560 And now we're looking at basically a situation in which these central banks 26 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:12.560 don't know what's going to be happening. 27 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:13.961 We are seeing enough weakness in the global economy to worry. 28 00:01:14.521 --> 00:01:16.922 But we're also seeing signs that inflation is starting to rise again. 29 00:01:17.462 --> 00:01:20.663 And so they're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place at the moment. 30 00:01:20.683 --> 00:01:22.483 And they don't know exactly what to do going forward. 31 00:01:22.903 --> 00:01:25.824 And that's why they're in a situation where they're probably looking at data 32 00:01:25.824 --> 00:01:27.824 each time. 33 00:01:27.824 --> 00:01:29.824 to make a decision. 34 00:01:29.824 --> 00:01:31.416 And I think that is going to make these interest rate decisions much more 35 00:01:31.416 --> 00:01:31.475 interesting. 36 00:01:31.896 --> 00:01:34.197 Because if something is totally expected, the market prices it in. 37 00:01:34.978 --> 00:01:37.099 We're not going to have that, I think, for the next few meetings, at least. 38 00:01:37.420 --> 00:01:42.603 I saw some commentator today, Viv, staying with you, and said there's only one cut 39 00:01:42.603 --> 00:01:44.603 this year coming. 40 00:01:44.603 --> 00:01:47.066 That's what the market's expecting from the US Federal Reserve, the most important 41 00:01:47.066 --> 00:01:49.066 central bank, of course. 42 00:01:49.066 --> 00:01:51.066 And that will be in August. 43 00:01:51.066 --> 00:01:53.066 Would you agree with that summary? 44 00:01:53.066 --> 00:01:55.066 I don't know. 45 00:01:55.066 --> 00:01:57.066 I mean, this is the bet that you have to be taking. 46 00:01:57.066 --> 00:01:59.066 It could be. 47 00:01:59.066 --> 00:02:01.066 It could be. 48 00:02:01.066 --> 00:02:03.066 You could even be seeing rate hikes by the start of next year, depending on how 49 00:02:03.066 --> 00:02:05.066 things go. 50 00:02:05.066 --> 00:02:07.459 But this is a situation in which we just don't know what the world economy looks 51 00:02:07.459 --> 00:02:09.459 like, what the U.S. 52 00:02:09.459 --> 00:02:11.459 economy looks like six months from now. 53 00:02:11.459 --> 00:02:13.459 And I think that is the danger in the moment. 54 00:02:13.459 --> 00:02:17.384 It's the fact that there's so much uncertainty that we just don't have the 55 00:02:17.384 --> 00:02:19.384 ability to make these predictions out even a few months. 56 00:02:19.384 --> 00:02:24.708 And talking about uncertainty, David, extraordinary volatility in markets at the 57 00:02:24.708 --> 00:02:24.988 moment. 58 00:02:24.988 --> 00:02:30.671 I mean, one day the S&P, I'll go to bed with the S&P closing down 70, 80 points. 59 00:02:30.671 --> 00:02:32.832 The next day, it's up 60. 60 00:02:32.992 --> 00:02:34.213 This morning, it was down. 61 00:02:35.254 --> 00:02:36.414 The futures market was down. 62 00:02:36.755 --> 00:02:38.315 And now I see it's turned around again. 63 00:02:38.395 --> 00:02:41.557 So it's great for day traders if you get it right. 64 00:02:41.837 --> 00:02:43.098 If you get it wrong, it's horrible. 65 00:02:43.138 --> 00:02:43.878 You're out of a job. 66 00:02:44.259 --> 00:02:46.240 But a lot of uncertainty out there. 67 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:48.481 No one can read this. 68 00:02:49.101 --> 00:02:50.442 Absolutely no one can read it. 69 00:02:50.702 --> 00:02:53.964 I don't care how smart you are unless you're playing. 70 00:02:54.220 --> 00:02:59.842 You know, you have an algorithm that tracks the very, 71 00:02:59.942 --> 00:03:01.963 very short-term movements in a market. 72 00:03:02.423 --> 00:03:09.206 But you have to put a lot of money and have to have ultra-high-speed type of 73 00:03:09.206 --> 00:03:11.206 computers to kind of get in front of the orders that eventually 74 00:03:11.206 --> 00:03:14.008 find themselves to whatever system you're trying to get in front of. 75 00:03:14.589 --> 00:03:15.369 It's impossible. 76 00:03:15.669 --> 00:03:17.150 But you know what? 77 00:03:17.410 --> 00:03:21.972 If I listened to Powell last night, I actually went through his… 78 00:03:23.072 --> 00:03:30.036 his meeting and it was quite interesting because he was very calm but just uh you 79 00:03:30.036 --> 00:03:32.036 know echoing what viv said 80 00:03:32.036 --> 00:03:37.921 he doesn't know what's happening and he admitted it you know in not so many words 81 00:03:37.921 --> 00:03:39.921 i mean or in those words nobody 82 00:03:39.921 --> 00:03:45.225 understands inflation at the moment and everybody's guessing at it and therefore 83 00:03:45.225 --> 00:03:47.225 it's almost impossible for 84 00:03:47.225 --> 00:03:50.888 them to try and make any kind of forecast about what lies ahead all he could 85 00:03:51.272 --> 00:03:54.133 All he could say was that the U.S. 86 00:03:54.173 --> 00:03:55.734 economy was in decent shape. 87 00:03:56.034 --> 00:03:57.495 They weren't going to get a recession. 88 00:03:58.095 --> 00:04:04.338 And kind of brushed aside, they are withdrawing the, what do you call it? 89 00:04:04.458 --> 00:04:05.158 It's monetary. 90 00:04:06.278 --> 00:04:07.219 Got to get this right. 91 00:04:07.699 --> 00:04:08.399 How would you say? 92 00:04:08.399 --> 00:04:14.562 In other words, they're not selling the bonds that they bought during the easing 93 00:04:14.562 --> 00:04:16.562 period where they 94 00:04:16.562 --> 00:04:18.562 put liquidity into the market. 95 00:04:18.562 --> 00:04:20.562 They're actually holding back. 96 00:04:20.562 --> 00:04:22.562 They don't want to sap out liquidity. 97 00:04:22.562 --> 00:04:26.798 from the market at the moment by reducing their book you know that one that they 98 00:04:26.798 --> 00:04:28.798 built up during the covert year so there were a 99 00:04:28.798 --> 00:04:33.604 couple of points but the market actually responded quite positively to what he had 100 00:04:33.604 --> 00:04:35.604 to say i think they were expecting 101 00:04:35.604 --> 00:04:36.307 worse on the inflation front so as 102 00:04:36.307 --> 00:04:43.173 a result i think this is what's giving us a little bit of a lift at the moment and i 103 00:04:43.173 --> 00:04:45.173 think we're also just 104 00:04:45.173 --> 00:04:49.972 tending to you know when he used the word transitory And I'd like Viv to come in, or 105 00:04:49.972 --> 00:04:51.972 even you, Lindsay, you know. 106 00:04:51.972 --> 00:04:52.820 That was three years ago, wasn't it, when he said transphobia? 107 00:04:53.081 --> 00:04:54.264 He used it last night. 108 00:04:54.324 --> 00:04:55.024 Oh, did he? 109 00:04:55.024 --> 00:04:55.526 Okay. 110 00:04:55.526 --> 00:04:56.207 Yeah. 111 00:04:56.300 --> 00:04:58.102 He said that this was transitory. 112 00:04:58.182 --> 00:05:01.945 In other words, the issue around tariffs. 113 00:05:02.446 --> 00:05:08.731 What I think he's saying is what I've been believing is that Trump is in such a mess 114 00:05:08.731 --> 00:05:10.731 at the moment. 115 00:05:10.731 --> 00:05:12.214 I don't think he understands from minute to minute what he's doing. 116 00:05:12.654 --> 00:05:16.758 Somewhere along the line, all of this is going to unravel against him. 117 00:05:17.118 --> 00:05:22.282 And he's going to have to kind of draw back or pull back on everything that he's 118 00:05:22.282 --> 00:05:22.482 done. 119 00:05:22.663 --> 00:05:24.184 You know, from Musk. 120 00:05:24.364 --> 00:05:26.725 to these 200% 121 00:05:27.326 --> 00:05:31.868 threats on French champagne and so on. 122 00:05:32.308 --> 00:05:38.572 So I think all of this is going to just be a bad dream in a month or two, you know, a 123 00:05:38.572 --> 00:05:40.572 couple of months as well. 124 00:05:40.572 --> 00:05:41.654 I mean, I don't think he can keep up with all these... 125 00:05:44.175 --> 00:05:45.536 Viv, I think you've got to come in here. 126 00:05:45.556 --> 00:05:50.458 David and I always speak together on a Monday, and we have a full go at Trump. 127 00:05:50.518 --> 00:05:53.240 I mean, it's our sort of rant afternoon. 128 00:05:53.540 --> 00:05:55.461 But he is quite haphazard, isn't he? 129 00:05:55.501 --> 00:05:58.062 Things that come out of his mouth have only just popped into his head. 130 00:05:58.342 --> 00:06:04.425 And then afterwards he says, huh, okay, 50% on whiskey, so I'll make it 200% 131 00:06:04.485 --> 00:06:06.306 on French wine and champagne. 132 00:06:06.446 --> 00:06:07.366 Yeah, that sounds good. 133 00:06:07.686 --> 00:06:08.747 And off he goes. 134 00:06:08.747 --> 00:06:09.647 Do you agree with that? 135 00:06:10.247 --> 00:06:13.169 Look, I agree that Trump doesn't have an idea, 136 00:06:13.389 --> 00:06:17.630 a philosophical economic approach to how the world works that is coherent. 137 00:06:18.351 --> 00:06:21.052 That is not to say that this administration doesn't. 138 00:06:21.500 --> 00:06:26.802 I think there's people in there that have spotted a person that they think is a 139 00:06:26.802 --> 00:06:28.802 vehicle for their plans going forward. 140 00:06:28.802 --> 00:06:29.482 Musk is not basically following Trump's plan. 141 00:06:29.502 --> 00:06:33.783 He's basically doing what he wants in a system, using Trump as a vehicle. 142 00:06:34.164 --> 00:06:37.004 People like Stephen Miller are using Trump as a vehicle to do what they want. 143 00:06:37.725 --> 00:06:42.706 Do you think Trump has any idea about the Foreign Alien Act, 144 00:06:43.446 --> 00:06:46.227 that was signed by John Adams back in the revolutionary days? 145 00:06:46.227 --> 00:06:49.928 Do you think he has any idea as to how... 146 00:06:50.208 --> 00:06:56.491 treasury works and how you know whose database has column has to be filled in uh 147 00:06:56.491 --> 00:06:58.491 you know to get you know payments done 148 00:06:58.491 --> 00:07:04.256 i think trump because of his of his almost always have hazardous in the first 149 00:07:04.256 --> 00:07:06.256 administration he was contained because he didn't have enough of a 150 00:07:06.256 --> 00:07:10.579 plan and the people around he wanted to contain this is a different administration 151 00:07:10.579 --> 00:07:12.579 which the people around him want to change things and his 152 00:07:12.579 --> 00:07:17.523 hazardousness basically makes it makes them able to do these things like iran 153 00:07:17.523 --> 00:07:19.523 must apparently doesn't run doge it's some woman that lives in 154 00:07:19.523 --> 00:07:19.744 tennessee that runs doge according to the law 155 00:07:20.400 --> 00:07:24.562 But if you think that's the technical thing, 156 00:07:24.562 --> 00:07:28.403 but the reality is obviously he's doing it. 157 00:07:28.423 --> 00:07:31.605 Stephen Miller basically doesn't have too much power, 158 00:07:31.645 --> 00:07:38.408 but he's able to basically defy a government or 159 00:07:38.528 --> 00:07:44.850 a judge's order by saying, according to this particular interpretation of the law, 160 00:07:44.850 --> 00:07:46.850 the plane has taken off and you can't do anything about it. 161 00:07:46.850 --> 00:07:48.850 It's international waters. 162 00:07:48.850 --> 00:07:48.912 These are the kind of moves I think are going to have 163 00:07:49.512 --> 00:07:55.014 some significant impacts internationally and nationally right into the future. 164 00:07:55.034 --> 00:07:57.255 I don't think this is going to be transitory, unfortunately. 165 00:07:58.096 --> 00:07:58.796 Okay. 166 00:07:59.356 --> 00:08:03.998 The so-called border czar, he did say, he said, I don't care what the judges say. 167 00:08:04.078 --> 00:08:07.899 How can you say that in the world's, supposedly the world's greatest democracy? 168 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:10.060 I don't care what the judges say. 169 00:08:10.220 --> 00:08:11.421 We're going to do this. 170 00:08:12.221 --> 00:08:14.302 It's the most extraordinary situation, David. 171 00:08:14.362 --> 00:08:15.062 Sorry. 172 00:08:15.102 --> 00:08:15.802 Go on. 173 00:08:15.802 --> 00:08:16.543 No, of course it is. 174 00:08:16.603 --> 00:08:21.125 But I think that, you know, Roberts, Chief Justice Roberts has come down on him. 175 00:08:21.505 --> 00:08:27.246 And I think he's going to find his administration involved in a huge number 176 00:08:27.246 --> 00:08:29.246 of court cases, 177 00:08:29.246 --> 00:08:31.246 regardless of what he says. 178 00:08:31.246 --> 00:08:31.908 I think the American people will rise against him. 179 00:08:31.968 --> 00:08:33.748 I think I really mean that. 180 00:08:33.848 --> 00:08:39.630 I think that, you know, initially it was a lot of fun to have somebody like this come 181 00:08:39.630 --> 00:08:41.630 in as well and to 182 00:08:41.630 --> 00:08:43.630 shake up Europe and so on. 183 00:08:43.630 --> 00:08:45.630 But he's going much deeper than that. 184 00:08:45.630 --> 00:08:46.232 I mean, his attack on the education on Colombia. 185 00:08:46.808 --> 00:08:50.809 And I've been reading quite a bit like that because I'm going to New York next 186 00:08:50.809 --> 00:08:51.069 week. 187 00:08:51.309 --> 00:08:52.150 I know Columbia. 188 00:08:52.210 --> 00:08:53.290 I often run through it. 189 00:08:54.110 --> 00:08:59.612 And the problem is that, you know, he is by withdrawing the $400 million, 190 00:09:00.652 --> 00:09:02.752 most of that actually goes to the sciences. 191 00:09:03.353 --> 00:09:09.574 And, you know, though that university is very close to a number of hospitals where 192 00:09:09.574 --> 00:09:11.574 the money goes 193 00:09:11.574 --> 00:09:12.555 into research, it's not in the liberal arts side of it. 194 00:09:13.015 --> 00:09:15.216 And the people involved on that side are not. 195 00:09:15.336 --> 00:09:17.317 not necessarily the people who've been protesting. 196 00:09:17.677 --> 00:09:19.518 So I think there are a lot of issues. 197 00:09:19.758 --> 00:09:23.320 He's gone for Penn as well, you know, because they won't change, 198 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:28.783 that they're allowing transgender people into their sports teams or something like 199 00:09:28.783 --> 00:09:29.203 this. 200 00:09:29.203 --> 00:09:30.224 I mean, this is nonsense. 201 00:09:30.725 --> 00:09:35.207 You know, that kind of stuff is also, there's got to be a backlash against it. 202 00:09:35.587 --> 00:09:36.688 You know, I don't care if... 203 00:09:37.424 --> 00:09:38.224 Whatever, you know, 204 00:09:38.264 --> 00:09:44.426 do I care about Pennsylvania's university swimming team or something like that? 205 00:09:44.426 --> 00:09:51.288 The interesting thing talking about that is that the Pentagon yesterday were 206 00:09:51.288 --> 00:09:53.288 instructed to say to go to put 207 00:09:53.288 --> 00:09:57.310 in keywords with some with some program and put in the keywords, you know, D.I. 208 00:09:57.510 --> 00:10:00.310 or black or transgender, whatever. 209 00:10:00.731 --> 00:10:05.852 And to get all of the articles that were on the Pentagon website. 210 00:10:06.132 --> 00:10:09.075 or in Pentagon archives and delete them all. 211 00:10:09.315 --> 00:10:11.617 24,000 were deleted. 212 00:10:11.617 --> 00:10:13.519 I mean, they didn't vet them. 213 00:10:13.839 --> 00:10:18.823 I mean, there's certain things that, or gay was the other word that came up. 214 00:10:19.004 --> 00:10:24.548 And they're just expunging American history with one push of a button. 215 00:10:24.829 --> 00:10:29.233 And again, Viv, I have to blame you about this song because it's not the greatest 216 00:10:29.233 --> 00:10:31.233 times of real life. 217 00:10:31.233 --> 00:10:33.233 I'm sorry. 218 00:10:33.233 --> 00:10:35.233 But it is quite sinister. 219 00:10:35.233 --> 00:10:37.960 I mean, even Viv, even you would agree with me that you have to manage 220 00:10:38.540 --> 00:10:40.862 AI and algorithms and all that sort of thing. 221 00:10:42.203 --> 00:10:42.903 Oh, yeah, most certainly. 222 00:10:42.903 --> 00:10:47.968 I mean, and in fact, I'm quite a, if you have to, there's a thing that's called, 223 00:10:47.968 --> 00:10:49.968 people are called accelerations and doomers. 224 00:10:49.968 --> 00:10:50.550 People that want to go faster, people that are afraid of what might happen. 225 00:10:50.590 --> 00:10:51.290 I'm a doomer. 226 00:10:51.611 --> 00:10:52.952 I really do think that, you know. 227 00:10:52.952 --> 00:10:53.652 Really? 228 00:10:53.793 --> 00:10:58.376 You look at any kind of historical, even the invention of the printing press, you 229 00:10:58.376 --> 00:10:58.656 know what I mean? 230 00:10:58.757 --> 00:11:01.019 Caused like, you know, decades of war in Europe. 231 00:11:01.299 --> 00:11:02.800 And that was just basically movable time. 232 00:11:03.452 --> 00:11:10.037 uh you're talking about the radio and you have the rise of fascism around the world 233 00:11:10.037 --> 00:11:12.037 the internet causes you saw the internet caused the rise of 234 00:11:12.037 --> 00:11:16.921 populism uh you know also things like for instance you know uh girls uh you know 235 00:11:16.921 --> 00:11:18.921 harming themselves any big technology is 236 00:11:18.921 --> 00:11:21.044 going to have you know negative side effects the bigger the technology the 237 00:11:21.044 --> 00:11:23.044 bigger the side effects are going to be and 238 00:11:23.044 --> 00:11:27.909 this is a very big technology and it's going to have remarkably bad you know 239 00:11:27.909 --> 00:11:29.909 impacts on certain people out there it's it's uh it's it's a 240 00:11:29.909 --> 00:11:34.301 given uh but going back to this thing about you know uh this uh Remember when 241 00:11:34.301 --> 00:11:36.301 people said, oh, 242 00:11:36.301 --> 00:11:39.923 Elon Musk had that 18 months to do stuff on Doge, and therefore that was meant to 243 00:11:39.923 --> 00:11:41.923 be like, oh, 244 00:11:41.923 --> 00:11:43.923 Trump was basically neutering him. 245 00:11:43.923 --> 00:11:48.027 Actually, it worked out to be the reverse, because he only sees himself as having 246 00:11:48.027 --> 00:11:50.027 another year to go, basically. 247 00:11:50.027 --> 00:11:54.730 And I think even Trump doesn't see himself having more than about another year and a 248 00:11:54.730 --> 00:11:56.730 half in terms of political power, because after that, 249 00:11:56.730 --> 00:11:58.730 he becomes a lame duck. 250 00:11:58.730 --> 00:12:00.730 I think these guys are going to be doing... 251 00:12:00.730 --> 00:12:05.257 some significant things and and the philosophy that musk says he has when it 252 00:12:05.257 --> 00:12:07.257 comes to these kind of things is overdo it and if you are overdoing 253 00:12:07.257 --> 00:12:12.122 reverse what you have to do but don't underdo it because you're never gonna have 254 00:12:12.122 --> 00:12:14.122 a chance again i think that's what's happening there and i i told you a couple 255 00:12:14.122 --> 00:12:16.122 weeks ago 256 00:12:16.122 --> 00:12:19.247 uh david so i think it was lindsay that this is going to be the most uh you know 257 00:12:19.247 --> 00:12:21.247 impactful presidency in our lifetimes i 258 00:12:21.247 --> 00:12:26.192 i think that is true i mean we've seen the usa id is gone but even though it's been 259 00:12:26.192 --> 00:12:28.192 reversed by a judge it's effectively over 260 00:12:28.192 --> 00:12:29.898 I think we're about to see the House of Education gone. 261 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:34.181 We're about to see just the way the U.S. 262 00:12:34.321 --> 00:12:35.682 works gone. 263 00:12:35.742 --> 00:12:37.303 And I don't think it's going to be good for the U.S. 264 00:12:37.363 --> 00:12:41.586 after a couple of years because what Trump is doing is he's taking all the trust the 265 00:12:41.586 --> 00:12:41.986 U.S. 266 00:12:41.986 --> 00:12:45.029 has earned over the last 70 years and he's spending it now. 267 00:12:45.649 --> 00:12:49.912 So people have built the trust in how the world works on the U.S.'s stability. 268 00:12:50.632 --> 00:12:52.794 You design your defense forces around the U.S. 269 00:12:53.114 --> 00:12:55.175 You design your financial system around the U.S. 270 00:12:55.256 --> 00:12:55.956 financial system. 271 00:12:56.304 --> 00:13:02.708 And Trump right now is able to take all that kind of built-in kind of like inertia 272 00:13:02.708 --> 00:13:04.708 and trust and say, you know, 273 00:13:04.708 --> 00:13:04.970 we're going to destroy how the world works. 274 00:13:05.450 --> 00:13:07.332 Because we've all depended on it for so long. 275 00:13:07.652 --> 00:13:08.652 You're totally on the back foot. 276 00:13:09.173 --> 00:13:10.914 And we're going to have a lot of power for a short period of time. 277 00:13:11.334 --> 00:13:15.537 But in a few years' time, it's going to be totally different because everybody's not 278 00:13:15.537 --> 00:13:17.537 going to trust the US anymore. 279 00:13:17.537 --> 00:13:18.199 And we're going to build new systems that have changed how the world works. 280 00:13:19.139 --> 00:13:20.661 And this goes back to the analog world. 281 00:13:20.661 --> 00:13:23.522 I mean, continuing this theme, but as I say, analog. 282 00:13:24.163 --> 00:13:25.684 The UK has the... 283 00:13:26.128 --> 00:13:29.250 the BBC World Service, which is a fantastic resource. 284 00:13:29.530 --> 00:13:35.533 And it doesn't matter where you are, you get your little shortwave radio, you could 285 00:13:35.533 --> 00:13:37.533 be in Mogadishu, wherever, wherever on earth it is, 286 00:13:37.533 --> 00:13:39.295 and you can hear proper news, unbiased news, in my opinion. 287 00:13:39.916 --> 00:13:42.337 Voice of America has virtually been shut down. 288 00:13:42.677 --> 00:13:46.559 You're turning on, you turn on Voice of America because it's unbiased reporting, 289 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:51.962 but because it doesn't fawn on Trump's ideas, he's closed it down. 290 00:13:51.962 --> 00:13:53.183 I mean, what is that? 291 00:13:53.683 --> 00:13:55.124 That is a classic dick. 292 00:13:55.184 --> 00:13:58.848 dictator, censoring everything that doesn't agree with him. 293 00:13:59.889 --> 00:14:02.071 But the Detroit of America was fine. 294 00:14:02.291 --> 00:14:04.313 It was propaganda, but so what? 295 00:14:04.714 --> 00:14:08.357 You know, when I say propaganda, you're going into the whole of Africa. 296 00:14:08.438 --> 00:14:10.360 You're going into all these regions. 297 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:16.826 Just whether you're not, you know, whether it's propaganda, I mean in the sense that 298 00:14:16.826 --> 00:14:18.826 it's Google's type. 299 00:14:19.216 --> 00:14:19.916 in a views. 300 00:14:20.197 --> 00:14:21.898 No, I don't think it was like that. 301 00:14:22.619 --> 00:14:25.361 I used to do a lot of reports for the Voice of America. 302 00:14:27.002 --> 00:14:31.706 Joe DiCaprio used to phone me often and just have a chat about things. 303 00:14:32.787 --> 00:14:34.128 There was absolutely nothing. 304 00:14:34.128 --> 00:14:39.792 He would ask me something and I would give him a true objective view of what was 305 00:14:39.792 --> 00:14:41.792 happening in South Africa. 306 00:14:41.792 --> 00:14:43.575 He used to ask me some very, not leading, but nice chats. 307 00:14:43.575 --> 00:14:44.275 He was great. 308 00:14:44.688 --> 00:14:47.970 And I've listened you've listened to BBC World Service. 309 00:14:47.990 --> 00:14:49.450 You've listened to Voice of America. 310 00:14:49.830 --> 00:14:55.893 I've never regarded that as biased or propaganda, but, I mean, it does spread. 311 00:14:57.774 --> 00:15:00.716 You know, it's like any kind of advertising. 312 00:15:00.956 --> 00:15:02.797 You know, advertising is propaganda. 313 00:15:02.837 --> 00:15:06.278 You know, buy these what's the name? 314 00:15:06.318 --> 00:15:07.159 Buy this coffee. 315 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:07.979 Buy this beer. 316 00:15:08.079 --> 00:15:08.779 What do you think? 317 00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:15.922 Anyway, but But to go to those kind of extents and start breaking down what has 318 00:15:15.922 --> 00:15:17.922 made America, 319 00:15:17.922 --> 00:15:19.922 I don't know. 320 00:15:19.922 --> 00:15:21.922 It's just two years old. 321 00:15:21.922 --> 00:15:23.922 Go there, Lindsay. 322 00:15:23.922 --> 00:15:25.922 I'll be there. 323 00:15:25.922 --> 00:15:27.922 I'll be there next Thursday evening. 324 00:15:27.922 --> 00:15:29.922 I'm leaving next Thursday. 325 00:15:29.922 --> 00:15:31.922 We will talk on the Monday. 326 00:15:31.922 --> 00:15:33.922 Yes. 327 00:15:33.922 --> 00:15:35.922 And I will get a good view of what's happening on the ground there, how people 328 00:15:35.922 --> 00:15:37.922 are believing, 329 00:15:37.922 --> 00:15:39.922 certainly coming from New York. 330 00:15:39.922 --> 00:15:41.922 You will be our voice of America. 331 00:15:41.922 --> 00:15:43.922 I will be your voice of America. 332 00:15:43.922 --> 00:15:45.922 Viv, do you want to interject to that? 333 00:15:45.922 --> 00:15:47.922 This is the weird thing, right? 334 00:15:47.922 --> 00:15:49.922 It's like he's not a dictator because a dictator wants to have power. 335 00:15:49.922 --> 00:15:52.762 What he's doing is he's going and he's destroying all the levers that a future 336 00:15:52.762 --> 00:15:54.762 leader would use to do things. 337 00:15:54.762 --> 00:15:56.485 Like the voice of America, USAID, okay, here's the thing. 338 00:15:57.025 --> 00:15:59.647 USAID is not only about aid. 339 00:15:59.727 --> 00:16:01.108 In fact, his name doesn't mean aid. 340 00:16:01.108 --> 00:16:03.429 It means the International Agency for Development. 341 00:16:05.051 --> 00:16:06.392 And it's not a... 342 00:16:07.092 --> 00:16:09.053 a purely charitable organization. 343 00:16:09.513 --> 00:16:10.554 It's a way of the U.S. 344 00:16:10.614 --> 00:16:12.615 to exercise soft power around the world. 345 00:16:13.015 --> 00:16:17.378 But you would think if you ran the U.S., you'd want to have more ability to 346 00:16:17.378 --> 00:16:19.378 exercise soft power around the world. 347 00:16:19.378 --> 00:16:24.662 You would think that if you have the voice of America, which is not entirely, like 348 00:16:24.662 --> 00:16:26.662 David said, you know, unbiased, it's going to have a U.S. 349 00:16:26.662 --> 00:16:28.662 bias. 350 00:16:28.662 --> 00:16:30.662 It's called voice of America. 351 00:16:30.662 --> 00:16:32.662 It's America's voice. 352 00:16:32.662 --> 00:16:34.662 But he, this is a weird case in which a guy that is basically a strong man in 353 00:16:34.662 --> 00:16:36.662 charge of a 354 00:16:36.662 --> 00:16:38.662 state doesn't trust the state he's in charge of. 355 00:16:38.662 --> 00:16:40.662 And he's just... 356 00:16:40.662 --> 00:16:42.662 destroying the state he's in charge of. 357 00:16:42.662 --> 00:16:44.662 That is the weird thing. 358 00:16:44.662 --> 00:16:46.874 I don't think you can find any example, anywhere in history, when somebody took 359 00:16:46.874 --> 00:16:48.874 over a country like this and became the strongman, 360 00:16:48.874 --> 00:16:53.417 like leader, and then decided to take away all the tools that the strongman will use 361 00:16:53.417 --> 00:16:55.417 to control the country. 362 00:16:55.417 --> 00:16:58.080 It's going to be a very, very weird place for the US in the next decade or so. 363 00:16:58.300 --> 00:16:59.000 Okay. 364 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:01.142 Let's get back to South Africa now, talking about weird places. 365 00:17:02.002 --> 00:17:03.483 Get back to South Africa with you, David. 366 00:17:03.983 --> 00:17:05.364 I'm just looking at results today. 367 00:17:05.784 --> 00:17:06.484 momentum. 368 00:17:06.984 --> 00:17:12.446 Didn't we comment upon the trading update a couple of weeks ago, and the share price 369 00:17:12.446 --> 00:17:14.446 was up 15%? 370 00:17:14.446 --> 00:17:19.668 It's probably gone down since then, and it's bounced back after the people see the 371 00:17:19.668 --> 00:17:21.668 results in black and white, up 11% today. 372 00:17:21.668 --> 00:17:22.089 And this is a sort of a sleepy company to me. 373 00:17:23.689 --> 00:17:25.270 In fact, it's not a sleepy company. 374 00:17:25.290 --> 00:17:26.150 Well, obviously not. 375 00:17:28.371 --> 00:17:35.314 And that's why, you know, it's always been overlooked by the the power of Sunlum and 376 00:17:35.314 --> 00:17:37.314 old Mutual and Discovery, 377 00:17:37.314 --> 00:17:38.897 you know, they've got most of the attention. 378 00:17:39.278 --> 00:17:42.841 And yet this company has done really well under its new management. 379 00:17:43.261 --> 00:17:49.866 I'm not, I can't even name the CEO, but slowly they've kind of, 380 00:17:50.527 --> 00:17:57.493 you know, remember it came from Metropolitan, a combination of 381 00:17:57.493 --> 00:17:59.493 Metropolitan and Momentum. 382 00:17:59.493 --> 00:18:01.493 Yes. 383 00:18:01.493 --> 00:18:03.493 And now it's just called Momentum, but it's a... 384 00:18:03.493 --> 00:18:05.457 It's a really good business that produces some very solid numbers. 385 00:18:05.997 --> 00:18:10.078 And that it's up 10%, I'm not quite sure because we did know these results. 386 00:18:10.999 --> 00:18:14.080 I don't know what was seen in the results that we didn't pick up. 387 00:18:14.580 --> 00:18:17.601 But, you know, it has happened. 388 00:18:18.261 --> 00:18:22.862 I think if you look at it relative to the others, it's probably cheap, you know, 389 00:18:23.062 --> 00:18:25.463 relative to the others and with a solid record. 390 00:18:26.883 --> 00:18:27.583 Very good. 391 00:18:27.583 --> 00:18:29.784 You know, there's only one thing, sorry, and I have to say this. 392 00:18:30.244 --> 00:18:31.265 Apologies, Lindsay. 393 00:18:31.265 --> 00:18:31.965 Okay. 394 00:18:31.965 --> 00:18:33.626 There's no top line. 395 00:18:33.686 --> 00:18:35.448 Going through the results, that's a worry. 396 00:18:35.728 --> 00:18:36.628 There's no top line. 397 00:18:37.149 --> 00:18:41.452 And I think this is I go back to the argument that we've been having for some 398 00:18:41.452 --> 00:18:43.452 time now. 399 00:18:43.452 --> 00:18:44.214 You can't grow companies without top line. 400 00:18:44.574 --> 00:18:45.635 They're not selling product. 401 00:18:46.075 --> 00:18:47.876 In other words, they're not getting new clients. 402 00:18:49.317 --> 00:18:50.418 You've got the old clients. 403 00:18:50.738 --> 00:18:52.099 They're becoming quite efficient. 404 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:58.944 Below the line on the insurance side, the claims are good. 405 00:18:59.828 --> 00:19:01.251 they're well covered and so on. 406 00:19:02.292 --> 00:19:06.500 But the big worry with all the companies that are reporting now, 407 00:19:07.052 --> 00:19:13.755 top line is static and it's it's reflective of what's happening in the 408 00:19:13.755 --> 00:19:15.755 economy so that's just one 409 00:19:15.755 --> 00:19:20.739 point you've got to watch out for that okay very good point indeed let's have a 410 00:19:20.739 --> 00:19:22.739 look at some markets now the rand's doing well it's up one 411 00:19:22.739 --> 00:19:26.001 and a half percent against the us dollar or rather the dollars fallen one and a 412 00:19:26.001 --> 00:19:28.001 half percent against the rand let's 413 00:19:28.001 --> 00:19:31.724 put it in the correct order 1818 british pound against around 2356 euro 414 00:19:32.444 --> 00:19:37.148 Rand is €1969, €108.30. 415 00:19:37.168 --> 00:19:43.974 Onto commodities, gold price is €3040. I mean, every time I look at that, I think, 416 00:19:43.974 --> 00:19:45.974 what is that, 417 00:19:45.974 --> 00:19:47.974 in rands or something? 418 00:19:47.974 --> 00:19:49.974 No, it's dollars. 419 00:19:49.974 --> 00:19:50.739 It's $3040 an ounce, up $14 an ounce today. 420 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:53.502 The white metals, though, they're so lackluster. 421 00:19:53.502 --> 00:20:00.027 €993 for platinum, still in three figures, which is down $8 today. 422 00:20:00.167 --> 00:20:00.888 And palladium... 423 00:20:01.492 --> 00:20:06.035 is down $16 to $950 an ounce. 424 00:20:06.115 --> 00:20:10.759 Now, the oil price, I was really bearish on oil last year, but all sorts of things 425 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:12.759 keep on happening, 426 00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:13.901 the Houthis and Yemen and everything else going on. 427 00:20:15.001 --> 00:20:19.244 So we got West Texas crude, $68.05, up 1.7%. 428 00:20:19.284 --> 00:20:24.408 Brent is $71.92, which is up 1.6%. 429 00:20:26.209 --> 00:20:27.230 What else is happening here? 430 00:20:27.230 --> 00:20:30.112 We've got the S&P 500, as I said earlier on. 431 00:20:30.852 --> 00:20:34.035 Futures were down about 0.6% this morning. 432 00:20:34.515 --> 00:20:37.198 Now the real market is up around about 0.4%. 433 00:20:37.278 --> 00:20:40.520 S&P 500 futures for the June delivery, 434 00:20:40.560 --> 00:20:44.504 5,753. 435 00:20:44.504 --> 00:20:45.204 U.S. 436 00:20:45.204 --> 00:20:50.168 10-year Treasury bond yield, 422 we'll call it, 4.22%. 437 00:20:50.228 --> 00:20:54.932 South African 10-year after the Reserve Bank today, 10.84%. 438 00:20:55.173 --> 00:20:59.236 And finally, Bitcoin is 86,000. 439 00:20:59.356 --> 00:21:02.017 just above 86,000, which is about a 2% gain. 440 00:21:02.337 --> 00:21:07.938 Viv, there was a nice retail sales number from South Africa yesterday, quite a 441 00:21:07.938 --> 00:21:09.938 startling number, actually, nearly 8% up. 442 00:21:09.938 --> 00:21:09.939 Has that affected the retailers at all? 443 00:21:10.299 --> 00:21:14.840 And if not, do you think the retailers should be looked at, 444 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.301 given what we've just seen yesterday with that number I just mentioned? 445 00:21:19.722 --> 00:21:20.422 It did. 446 00:21:20.422 --> 00:21:22.583 I mean, you saw the retail stocks yesterday did quite well. 447 00:21:23.123 --> 00:21:26.284 We're leading the market by it, so I think, yeah, it did kind of affect the 448 00:21:26.284 --> 00:21:26.564 market. 449 00:21:27.264 --> 00:21:33.946 it just doesn't make sense from the neighbors i don't see how these guys are 450 00:21:33.946 --> 00:21:35.946 going to be able to adjust going forward i think the 451 00:21:35.946 --> 00:21:41.108 question about is the economy is growing you know barely you know just over a 452 00:21:41.108 --> 00:21:43.108 percent yeah how do we justify these these 453 00:21:43.108 --> 00:21:45.809 massive you know because retail city increases year on year uh when 454 00:21:45.929 --> 00:21:52.651 people don't have any money more money i mean where is it coming from howard unless 455 00:21:52.651 --> 00:21:54.651 the the the told us uh the informal economy is growing gangbusters 456 00:21:54.651 --> 00:21:56.856 i just don't see how this uh these numbers are sustainable Okay. 457 00:21:56.976 --> 00:22:00.717 David, you're not a fan of the retailers we were speaking about again on Monday. 458 00:22:01.317 --> 00:22:05.018 I mean, that's going to be nasty, but you were quite disparaging about them. 459 00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:06.759 I am. 460 00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:11.820 I just think they, you know, I just think exactly what Viv says and what I've 461 00:22:11.820 --> 00:22:11.980 repeated. 462 00:22:11.980 --> 00:22:12.700 There's no top line. 463 00:22:13.381 --> 00:22:17.542 And even though, you know, it happened, the January sales numbers were very good. 464 00:22:17.602 --> 00:22:20.042 But I was a bit confused by it. 465 00:22:20.042 --> 00:22:23.804 I went into econometrics and looked what the problem was. 466 00:22:23.884 --> 00:22:25.464 I said last January. 467 00:22:25.784 --> 00:22:28.966 Going back to January 24 was a very bad month, 468 00:22:29.626 --> 00:22:32.828 and therefore on the comparative basis you got this kicker. 469 00:22:34.489 --> 00:22:39.332 Look, there's also been the two-pot system, people withdrawing their pensions 470 00:22:39.332 --> 00:22:41.332 in advance, 471 00:22:41.332 --> 00:22:45.796 and real wages are up because inflation's come down and so on, 472 00:22:46.256 --> 00:22:47.056 interest rates are down. 473 00:22:47.076 --> 00:22:53.200 So there's a little bit more money around, but I don't think enough to make a strong 474 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:55.200 case for… 475 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.981 any of the financials and for any of the retailers in our market. 476 00:22:57.981 --> 00:22:58.681 Okay. 477 00:22:58.681 --> 00:22:59.962 Let's have a look at individual stocks now. 478 00:23:00.002 --> 00:23:00.942 We've mentioned Momentum. 479 00:23:00.982 --> 00:23:02.042 That was the standout. 480 00:23:02.743 --> 00:23:08.424 On the upside, Shaftesbury Capital. There was some sort of market speculation which 481 00:23:08.424 --> 00:23:10.424 has propelled that one 482 00:23:10.424 --> 00:23:12.424 up over 7%. 483 00:23:12.424 --> 00:23:14.424 Harmony up nearly 5%. 484 00:23:14.424 --> 00:23:15.366 On the downside, is there an ex-div story here, David? 485 00:23:15.426 --> 00:23:20.447 Process and NASPS both getting hit over 5%. 486 00:23:20.447 --> 00:23:21.648 Is that… Ex-10 cent was down. 487 00:23:21.848 --> 00:23:22.548 Oh, I see. 488 00:23:23.084 --> 00:23:30.027 Tencent had very good results, but the market was a little upset because they're 489 00:23:30.027 --> 00:23:32.027 not spending enough on AI and knocked them in 490 00:23:32.027 --> 00:23:34.027 Hong Kong this morning. 491 00:23:34.027 --> 00:23:36.027 So we suffer the consequences. 492 00:23:36.027 --> 00:23:38.027 OK. 493 00:23:38.027 --> 00:23:38.911 But this is the volatility you're talking of, Lindsay. 494 00:23:39.271 --> 00:23:41.812 We don't know from one day to the next what's going to happen. 495 00:23:41.872 --> 00:23:43.093 But that was the story today. 496 00:23:43.533 --> 00:23:44.233 OK. 497 00:23:44.233 --> 00:23:46.534 Vestek down nearly 4%, PLC that is. 498 00:23:47.054 --> 00:23:50.536 Aspen down 3.6% and Subanya still water down just over. 499 00:23:51.076 --> 00:23:51.776 3%. 500 00:23:51.776 --> 00:23:54.040 Give us the indices ahead of the long weekend, please, David. 501 00:23:55.061 --> 00:24:00.927 Well, the all-share index has closed down 0.7% at 89519. 502 00:24:00.927 --> 00:24:03.490 That's after touching an all-time high yesterday. 503 00:24:04.271 --> 00:24:08.355 Resorts are still busy, I think, on the back of that gold price. 504 00:24:08.435 --> 00:24:10.498 And there is money flowing into that. 505 00:24:10.518 --> 00:24:12.640 The all-share, I mean, the resource index up. 506 00:24:13.250 --> 00:24:17.633 0.6% with the precious metal side of it up 1.2%. 507 00:24:18.133 --> 00:24:21.355 That has been the trend over the last couple of weeks. 508 00:24:21.435 --> 00:24:22.977 Banks down slightly. 509 00:24:24.518 --> 00:24:31.062 The broader financial market, I think, picked up by, I'm talking about an 510 00:24:31.062 --> 00:24:33.062 insurance picked up by that momentum move. 511 00:24:33.062 --> 00:24:35.062 Industrial market down 512 00:24:35.062 --> 00:24:41.069 2.25%. And that's on the back of the downward moves in process, NASPERS, 513 00:24:41.069 --> 00:24:43.069 Richemont, 514 00:24:43.069 --> 00:24:45.069 author, under a bit of pressure. 515 00:24:45.069 --> 00:24:47.069 So I think... 516 00:24:47.069 --> 00:24:48.594 Those three stocks have a big weighting on the industrial index. 517 00:24:49.014 --> 00:24:49.714 Okay. 518 00:24:49.714 --> 00:24:50.395 So that's about it. 519 00:24:50.835 --> 00:24:51.536 Very good. 520 00:24:51.556 --> 00:24:53.477 Value's been up, I must say, Lindsay. 521 00:24:53.557 --> 00:24:58.901 We've seen over the last few weeks way above the kind of activity that we saw 522 00:24:58.901 --> 00:25:00.901 last year. 523 00:25:00.901 --> 00:25:01.143 Oh, today something must have happened. 524 00:25:01.523 --> 00:25:03.224 They must have been rebalancing today. 525 00:25:03.384 --> 00:25:06.666 Or is today the end of a that's March. 526 00:25:06.747 --> 00:25:08.228 Oh, it's futures closeout. 527 00:25:08.408 --> 00:25:09.548 Oh, of course it is, yeah. 528 00:25:09.548 --> 00:25:11.410 Last Thursday of the quarter, yes. 529 00:25:12.078 --> 00:25:17.421 or nearly 87 billion went through the market that must be an all-time record 530 00:25:17.842 --> 00:25:24.646 87 billion well that's a lot about that's yeah in fact it's more it's a yeah it's 531 00:25:24.646 --> 00:25:26.646 about 88 with nice bears making up 532 00:25:26.646 --> 00:25:31.650 11 billion of that angler gold five and a half billion of that and so on so all 533 00:25:31.650 --> 00:25:33.650 right big day for 534 00:25:33.650 --> 00:25:38.014 today good night good one for the jse limited very quickly viv i saw the head of 535 00:25:38.014 --> 00:25:40.014 nvidia 536 00:25:40.014 --> 00:25:43.678 looking very enthusiastic and very nasty in his leather jacket on stage with a 537 00:25:43.678 --> 00:25:45.678 robot last night. 538 00:25:45.678 --> 00:25:46.821 And he's talking about a collaboration with General Motors. 539 00:25:47.041 --> 00:25:52.105 Is this one of the things that is sort of chipping away at Tesla, for example, 540 00:25:52.105 --> 00:25:57.450 because they're talking about self-driving cars and NVIDIA says, right, we're going 541 00:25:57.450 --> 00:25:59.450 to assist you with this. 542 00:25:59.452 --> 00:26:02.354 Yeah, look, I mean, everybody's trying to do it at the moment. 543 00:26:02.434 --> 00:26:05.417 I don't know how it's going to be done exactly. 544 00:26:05.477 --> 00:26:06.898 There is this whole debate between. 545 00:26:07.334 --> 00:26:14.300 what's called lidar which is kind of like a laser radar and just cameras which what 546 00:26:14.300 --> 00:26:16.300 tesla uses tesla argues that you know humans use just 547 00:26:16.300 --> 00:26:20.885 their eyes they don't have you know a radar and therefore you should be able to 548 00:26:20.885 --> 00:26:22.885 just you know uh travel just with your eyes so there is a 549 00:26:22.885 --> 00:26:26.330 bit of a divergence there honestly uh i don't think it's the gm guys that are 550 00:26:26.330 --> 00:26:28.330 going to be the guys that are really a 551 00:26:28.330 --> 00:26:29.993 threat to tesla it's what's happening in china uh i don't know if you've looked 552 00:26:29.993 --> 00:26:36.618 at what the chinese vehicles look like at the moment they are unbelievably 553 00:26:36.618 --> 00:26:38.618 innovative you know it's a it it 554 00:26:38.618 --> 00:26:40.301 In China, Tesla is like the old-fashioned basic model. 555 00:26:41.982 --> 00:26:42.682 What you get from... 556 00:26:45.304 --> 00:26:46.004 And expensive. 557 00:26:46.004 --> 00:26:47.926 Yeah, and expensive. 558 00:26:47.926 --> 00:26:49.407 I saw a quote by one journalist. 559 00:26:49.447 --> 00:26:51.969 They say, Tesla is what you buy if you don't know about cars. 560 00:26:52.749 --> 00:26:55.111 So the Chinese are the real movers out there. 561 00:26:55.511 --> 00:26:57.012 And I think that is the real thing. 562 00:26:57.833 --> 00:27:00.575 I think it's also a real threat coming from China as well. 563 00:27:01.255 --> 00:27:04.578 Because you're seeing Huawei really moving up into the chip business. 564 00:27:04.938 --> 00:27:07.660 We are seeing, you know, the latest, like, developers from these guys. 565 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:08.461 It's the Chinese. 566 00:27:08.481 --> 00:27:10.503 Well, you've got BID as well, eh? 567 00:27:11.103 --> 00:27:11.803 Yeah. 568 00:27:11.803 --> 00:27:15.187 With a five-minute kind of charger. 569 00:27:15.307 --> 00:27:18.109 You know, you've got a battery that you can charge up in five minutes. 570 00:27:18.910 --> 00:27:21.592 Like, it's a petrol car. 571 00:27:22.092 --> 00:27:26.036 But the Chinese, the sanctions that the U.S. 572 00:27:26.036 --> 00:27:28.157 has put against China are backfiring, I think, massively. 573 00:27:28.998 --> 00:27:30.920 The sanctions against South Africa, we can't really do much. 574 00:27:31.320 --> 00:27:33.642 We don't have the capacity to really bake our own local industries. 575 00:27:34.610 --> 00:27:41.554 you sanctioned you know they give them a bit of a head wind that it's happening and 576 00:27:41.554 --> 00:27:43.554 they're going to start developing their own local industries and in some ways they 577 00:27:43.554 --> 00:27:45.554 are 578 00:27:45.554 --> 00:27:48.938 better suited in terms of intellectual power the amount of engineers they have 579 00:27:48.938 --> 00:27:50.938 the one of you know manufacturing capacity they have i mean first i saw this thing 580 00:27:50.938 --> 00:27:55.842 this was ridiculous china has i think 200 times not 20 percent times like the like 581 00:27:55.842 --> 00:27:57.842 the ship manufacturing capacity of the us 582 00:28:01.265 --> 00:28:05.799 is going to really take off because of the fact that they are basically being 583 00:28:05.799 --> 00:28:05.959 sanctioned. 584 00:28:06.099 --> 00:28:06.799 And here's the weird thing. 585 00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.840 I think a lot of the other parts of the world are going to support China because 586 00:28:09.840 --> 00:28:10.020 the U.S. 587 00:28:10.020 --> 00:28:12.601 sanctions against chips and so on are affecting places like Brazil and India. 588 00:28:13.141 --> 00:28:15.902 And those guys are going to be buying from China and not buying from NVIDIA going 589 00:28:15.902 --> 00:28:16.181 forward. 590 00:28:16.322 --> 00:28:20.323 On that note, gentlemen, please go away and have three days off and decompress. 591 00:28:20.423 --> 00:28:22.924 David, I'll speak to you on Monday, but 592 00:28:24.144 --> 00:28:29.725 Viv and I will listen to you the following Monday about your Voice of America 593 00:28:29.725 --> 00:28:31.725 broadcast. 594 00:28:31.725 --> 00:28:33.725 And, yeah. 595 00:28:33.725 --> 00:28:35.725 Have a lovely time. 596 00:28:35.725 --> 00:28:37.725 Gentlemen, thank you so much. 597 00:28:37.725 --> 00:28:38.940 Viv Govendale, 598 00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:42.581 this is Rand Swithson, 599 00:28:42.641 --> 00:28:48.142 David Shapiro 600 00:28:48.343 --> 00:28:53.064 from Sessvin 601 00:28:53.544 --> 00:28:59.646 Securities. And that was the five o'clock 602 00:28:59.726 --> 00:29:00.686 shadow. 603 00:29:01.066 --> 00:29:02.689 other than the speaker or the author. 604 00:29:02.989 --> 00:29:08.878 And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to 605 00:29:08.878 --> 00:29:10.878 change, revision, 606 00:29:10.878 --> 00:29:11.022 and rethinking at any time. 607 00:29:11.322 --> 00:29:13.746 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.