Hey, how are you? This episode of Something Shifted
forms part of a global movement called podcast Thon. Back in 2023.
Podcast thon started with just 300 podcasters in France, but today,
over 1600 podcasters from all over the world are participating,
which makes podcast Thon the world's largest podcast charity
initiative for a week in March. Podcast is around the World
publish an episode in an effort to raise awareness for a charitable
cause close to their heart. As a parent to a child with
special needs, I want you to know more about the work of a
Cape Town based organization called the Kayley Campaign.
So my plan was to rock up at their head office and have a
look around it, but life. So instead I'm going super old school
and I'm just going to pick up the phone and try to get hold of the CEO.
Kerry campaign. Good morning. Morning. Hi, this is Sean speaking.
I'm looking for Zelda. Minecraft, please. Sure. It's all.
Thank you. Hi. Silver speaking. Morning, Zelda. It's Sean speaking.
How are you? I'm Sean. If that last name Mycroft is
sounding familiar to you, you score an extra ten points.
It should, because it means you've been listening to the previous
episodes of Something Shifted. You'll remember I spoke with
Kaley Mycroft not too long ago. The Kaley campaign is the
organization that Kaley started with a group of friends.
Good to hear your voice. So could you tell me more about
the Kaley campaign, please? The Kaley campaign is a social
Justice Foundation that celebrates its 21st birthday this year.
Um, I think one of the special features is that, uh,
origin story is quite special. Uh, we were founded 21 years ago
by five girls between the ages of six and 12.
Two sets of sisters, um, who created employment for both their mothers.
I don't think many other, um, organizations can can have that
their track record. So the mother of the founders.
Um, Justine, Karen and Chelsea Diane has been the financial manager of
our organization for 21 years. And Kenny and Erin are my members,
and I've been the CEO for the past 21 years.
So I think the most important thing about our organization is we
built on love and relationships. We carry that ethos through to
the work that we do with disabled children, their families,
their communities. And, um, we truly look at
disability inclusion as being necessary across all the layers
of disabled people's lives. What started off as five girls
raising 20,000 grand to get a motorized wheelchair for their
sister and their friend, created the realization that
what was actually being gifted was independence and choice.
And it's those softer, um, skills and values that really
focus on the fact that even though we have Isoquant inefficient.
Every year we work directly with about 30% of that would be
disabled people, children, youth and adults, and 70%.
Majority of our work happens with non-disabled people because
that's where the inclusion paradigm shift has to happen.
Those stats are incredible to hear. Can you tell me, you know, what are
the things that you're involved in then? So we were involved in.
Inclusive education, focusing on early childhood development,
because we believe that if children before the age of six can be set,
a framework in which inclusion happens easily and automatically,
um, that sets them up as inclusion actors for the rest of their lives.
So our early preschool inclusive preschool play the Katie Cottage
Preschool is really a living example of that ethos.
We also work in community in about 40 mainstream preschools to also install
that ethos of inclusion and then, um, adaptive sports leadership
development and then general advocacy in all spaces is the broad mandate of
what the Kaylie campaign stands for. That's really incredible.
I'm sure you probably hear that quite often that the work you're
doing is incredible. Um, and I hope you're hearing
that often that the work you're doing is incredible.
Um, the lives and the number of lives that you've already
touched up until this point, and you're saying you're marking
your 21st birthday, what are you looking forward to, to next?
What what else is there that you still feel you have scope to achieve?
Zelda. Well, you know,
I think the difficult thing working in the disability sector is that
so often we have to revisit so many of the same things, and that
you can't be despondent because we continuously find new people,
new non-disabled people who do not understand the value of what disabled
people bring to their communities. So I think in general terms,
what what we're aiming to do is for, um, communities and society at large,
recognising that disability excellence is a reality, that if we
create space for disabled people to have an opportunity to reach their
full potential, everybody wins. And, um, in broad strokes,
that it we need to be present in every aspect of life.
And so often disabled people are given, um, you know, the short straw.
You know, people, um, often speak about we need to practice tolerance.
But tolerance is an awful word. We need to expect, um, acceptance.
Because all of us are different. And, see, we are common ground.
Work towards filling those spaces where we have common interests.
And it is to the advantage of everybody.
If every member of a family and every member of our community,
um, is harness their gifts, their talents are harnessed to,
um, complete that family in that community. Absolutely nobody.
Yeah. Nobody should. You know, you often have this the
thing that is, there was a movement. um, which, uh, and it's quoted all
the time nothing about us without us. And we kind of we've edited that.
We don't believe. We believe that's quite a dated
concept. Nothing about us. Without us.
We believe that it should be nothing without us, because it shouldn't
just be issues that affect our lives as disabled people or families.
Um, with disabled family member, we are human beings who have a right
to have a voice in every space. 100% agree, and I immediately start
thinking of universal design. And I know you're talking about
space incorporating more than just a physical space.
But if we do look at physical spaces, uh, they aren't always designed
universally. They're not universally friendly for
everybody to be able to access them. And and I'm hoping and I'm pretty
sure that the work that you're doing is opening people's eyes.
Uh. Have you. What? What are the things that you're
seeing? The biggest changes. Where have you seen some of the
biggest changes? Uh, is it just in perception, or are
there physical things that others are able to look at and go, wow,
the Kaylee campaign has had an impact here. Look at what they've done.
I believe that the biggest impact we've had, first of all,
our definition of sustainability has got nothing to do with money.
Our definition of sustainability is we are still here.
Um, and and really, you have to be tenacious.
You have to be resilient in the space and you have to keep showing up.
And I think to pick one example, um, in adaptive sports,
we we are second in the Kaley Sports and Recreation Club.
In 2016, um served legal papers on the Comrades Marathon because
the rules Rule stated no wheelchairs for Katie and Anita.
After two months of robust fighting and serving legal papers,
and including every man and his dog in a high profile position
in those legal papers, and then eventually threatening to
take them to the Equality Court, resulted in Anita and Kelly as
assistant adapted athletes being able to do the Comrades Marathon in 2016.
Um, and we have to keep showing up. So it wasn't a one day wonder.
And the following year, Kelly was the first person, first wheelchair
user to get her back to back medal. Um, and then in 2018,
a wonderful thing happened because of our advocacy, um,
is now in the road running rulebook for Athletics South Africa.
There is a section all about the inclusion of wheelchair athletes, and
all the seven years down the track, Kaylie has completed six comrades.
Anita has competed multiple comrades. I think it's 4 or 5 and other
people are following suit. But for me, the important thing
is we have a tangible reference in heading changed the athletics
of Africa, not only the perception but their rulebook.
And it means that we don't have to fight this fight because
we've got it in writing that it is disabled wheelchair athletes
right to participate. So I always hold that up as a
very big milestone moment. But it's only a writing on paper
if we we have to continue showing up in those spaces.
Sure. Yeah. What a cool story. I mean, I was smiling from ear
to ear and had, you know, tears leaking out the side of my
eye all at the same time because it's such a joyous thing and really,
that emotion that drives that forward, bringing people together
essentially is what you're doing, um, which is such a wonderful thing.
Absolutely. And, Sean, you know, the thing that I
find most important is that when you when you continue to show up,
you we believe very strongly in, um, person to person advocacy because
when somebody has met a need, when somebody has made butter,
when somebody has made ceilidh, it changes their lives forever.
Change perceptions about ability and what people can do.
And it's in those changed perceptions which again,
we don't want alive is a lovely word. But what we want, um,
is more than that. We want Collaborators and and we
want people to actually make good trouble with us on our behalf.
So you need more than collaborators. You need conspirators who go out to
help change the world to be a more inclusive space and in, um, making
time to do one on one advocacy. Arriving in unexpected spaces is
so important. Um, you know, you you mentioned the
physical environment and space and all of the things that possibly make
it more difficult for royalty users, for example, to access a building.
Um, we've always been of the opinion that they are space.
So now we we actually want to get into that building because there cool
things happening in that building. So let's find a couple of strong
men And, you know, not resisting or fighting the
fact you can do that as well. So this place needs to become
physically more accessible around universal accessibility guidelines.
But if we can change the attitude of people to get us into rooms in spite
of those physical predicaments and challenges, those people lifting
Kaylee's very heavy wheelchair up first steps are definitely going
to look at those steps differently the next time they walk up there.
So it was changed perceptions, working on that all the time. Yeah.
A story I told somebody once about how having someone in your family,
and obviously my child is still very small with her disabilities.
And the challenges that you feel you feel people are looking at you,
you feel isolated. And invariably the reason you
don't see a lot of us out there is because we we might very well
feel exactly that isolated. I don't feel welcome in this space,
so I choose not to go out. Yeah. But as as Zoey has gotten older
and as we have realized, people need to see us out.
People need to see us as a family. People need to see us using spaces.
Exactly to your point, they need to see us.
Um, I try my words so carefully, but if I'm struggling in an environment,
then step up and help me. If you've experienced that with me,
you can see why it's important to advocate going forward.
Absolutely. Collaboration. And I think I'm very fortunate that,
um, as a former school teacher, I was very happy to, um,
pass on instructions to total strangers and children.
So from the time that Kelly could started speaking and it was a little
we we gave her framework on how to interact with people because
right from the beginning, kids particularly are kids are delightful.
They need to know. So they are. Yeah. And kids would come up to me all the
time and say, what's wrong with her? And I'd say, there's nothing wrong
with her, but why don't you ask her? And then we frame this conversation
with Kaylee followed, saying, there's nothing wrong with my legs.
They just don't work the same way they choose to.
Yes, look a cool way in which I now work and walk in inverted
commas in the script. And an important thing that
happens all the time. The two words that we we often
concepts we battle against all the time.
The one is wheelchair bound when everybody says and that's that's
sort of the go to descriptor. She is wheelchair bound.
And we say, no, no, no, no, she is wheelchair empowered.
If she didn't have a wheelchair, she'd be homebound. Correct.
So always trying to to get people to see things positively.
And then the other thing that we always push against is the word
normal. Yes. Um, because you go to a normal
school, does she have normal friends? And, um, we just had it this weekend.
We were we were in Bloemfontein. Um, Kaylee and the running
partner Schonfeld at the marathon in bloom last Saturday.
And this is very lovely, man. Elderly man came and walked next
to us and said to us, well, you know what?
When she meets her maker, you don't have to worry because
when she meets her maker, she will be totally normal.
And I had to actually just total stranger say to him,
she's totally normal right now and in fact has accomplished a lot.
But she is exactly. If you want to use a religious
reference, this is the way she was made.
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, people. Well, people can use those terms
so loosely and so frequently and with the assumption of children
being less than. Mhm. So that is the main perception
that I feel we need to constantly do battle with.
And sometimes it's ticking with a feather and sometimes it's
speaking because. I love that. And let's, let's hope we don't have
the beat with too many sticks and can rather tickle with the feathers.
And they get it quickly. Huh? Um, I. Think sometimes, sometimes you
have to be two thirds thick. You know, you can.
Only because there's a time for for all of these actions.
If you if if I go back to the the, um, comrades marathon thing,
we tickled with the Sabres for a good few weeks, ran out of time,
and then we had to start, you know, we had the legal papers
and we had to actually threatened that we had to be prophetic.
Yeah, there's there's a lot of work to be done.
And I think you've definitely. You've you've spearheaded the
way forward. Um, and again, congratulations on
everything that the Kelly campaign has achieved up until this point.
And I believe it will continue to do very much more.
I will most certainly include details in the show notes of this
episode for people to find you. But since I do have you on the phone,
Zelda, what is the best thing that people can do to support those,
uh, that are in predicaments that we're dealing with through
the Kelly campaign or adjacent to the Kelly campaign?
What would you suggest to them? Oh, well, I think just in everyday
interaction, the thing that, um, separates non-disabled communities
from disabled people is fear. The fear of not being understood.
The fear of being embarrassed. The fear of catching something, you
know, all of those unspoken fears. And my, my encouragement would
be when you see somebody who is different to you. Do not be fearful.
Just how would you treat any other person? You go up and you treat.
You speak to that person in the wheelchair as a person because
that's what they are. So do not make let your own fears
of um not being up to the task or not knowing how to respond.
Be brave, get into or get out of your comfort
zone and allow an interaction. Encourage an interaction with
somebody who is not like you in order for you to grow.
Because so often people feel, you know,
I'm doing a favor to this person, I'm going to push them in this race.
I'm going to volunteer my time to school.
And the biggest takeaway ever. And it's always the case is when
I'm doing something that I think is a good thing for somebody else,
and I spend my time doing it. I am always the winner.
So, you know, we feel that we've always felt
that we needed to foist Kaylee on other people with gay abandon
because they were the lucky ones. People who meet our children,
people who meet our friends who are disabled.
Um, they are the lucky ones because they are the ones who
are gaining something special. They're learning lessons that
they can learn nowhere else, and it's enriching their lives.
And I think just just before us, what's on my mind?
I'm sure Katie has also mentioned to you that we're very intentional in
using, um, identity first language as opposed to people first language.
Um, with the acknowledged red speaking or the generally accepted
way speaking is saying I'm a person with a disability because there
was that whole movement around. People first see me before you
see my wheelchair. And that's where the nothing about
us without us also grew out of. But a more modern, um, movement
is to claim disability pride. Because when you say I'm a person
with a disability and you put disability on the backburner,
there's almost an implication of don't see my disability,
see me as a person. And disability does define Way
in which you deserve. You know, when people say
disability doesn't define me, Keisha Kelly kicks against that
all the time. It does define me. My disability defines what I do
with every minute of my day. And as a result,
I need to have pride in my disability as part of my identity.
So we we don't say person with a disability,
we say disabled person purposefully because we claiming the disabled
tag as something to be proud of. I hear you and back to what you
were saying as well about, uh, being fearful maybe of an
interaction with a disabled person. I can say wholeheartedly that our
friends that interact with my child who has who is disabled, always come
away feeling that much more enriched. Uh, so there's definitely something
that they're gaining by doing so, by stepping out of their comfort
zone and embracing, you know, whatever that fear that they may
think they have. Stepping beyond that goes goes a
long way for them and for those around them and exactly what we're
looking for, right, with the Kelly campaign. So thank you, Zelda.
Is there anything else you want to say before I, before I let
you go back to your very busy day of being a CEO and managing
all sorts of various entities. You know, I just feel a need to
finish on one quote that was coined by one of our founders when she was
six years old, Chelsea Kerry, um, spoke about how inclusion can't
be learned. It has to be lived. And that's kind of become one of
our really calls. Um, inclusion can't be learned.
It has to be lived. And I think that is central to
all the work that we do. When was with the relationships,
the conversations, the opportunities, um,
seeing challenges as opportunities. It's all about interconnectedness
and inviting other people along for the journey with us so that they
can to learn the magic of what it's like to have every member of your
community seen, heard, and truly appreciated. Such a great quote.
Perfection. Yeah, lovely. Zelda,
thank you so much for your time. Um, this has been really lovely.
And again, I'm sorry I couldn't visit, but hopefully in the near
future I can pop around for a coffee or something and.
We look forward to that. We look forward to that and we look
forward to meeting Zoe as well. Yes, we must make that happen.
Yes, let's do it. Thanks, Sean. Have a good one. Thanks, Zelda.
Okay. Bye bye. Thank you for listening to this
episode of Something Shifted. We make this show as a labor of love.
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My name is Shawn and this is something shifted by.