WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.412 --> 00:00:04.556 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. 2 00:00:05.476 --> 00:00:09.099 The JSC has closed its doors for another day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock 3 00:00:09.099 --> 00:00:09.219 shadow. 4 00:00:09.219 --> 00:00:15.024 And as always on a Thursday, I speak to David Shapiro from Sasson Securities and 5 00:00:15.024 --> 00:00:17.024 Viv Govender from RAND Swiss. 6 00:00:17.024 --> 00:00:19.188 I want to start with you, Viv, because everyone was waiting for NVIDIA yesterday. 7 00:00:19.528 --> 00:00:20.429 How did they deliver? 8 00:00:20.509 --> 00:00:23.931 What did you make of their numbers, which is they beat expectations. 9 00:00:25.513 --> 00:00:27.494 Yeah, but NVIDIA is not a problem. 10 00:00:27.494 --> 00:00:29.176 NVIDIA is beating expectations. 11 00:00:29.580 --> 00:00:36.225 by such a large amount each time uh you know it's come out recently the market 12 00:00:36.225 --> 00:00:38.225 doesn't expect the bt expects a spectacular beat and 13 00:00:38.225 --> 00:00:42.990 unfortunately did not get that this time and so we find the share price down about 14 00:00:42.990 --> 00:00:44.990 four and a half percent today i think the only 15 00:00:44.990 --> 00:00:49.114 reason is the project thing in the number objectively was the fact that margins were 16 00:00:49.114 --> 00:00:51.114 under pressure um but 17 00:00:51.114 --> 00:00:55.819 i mean images margins are gigantic you know famously gigantic so uh you know it 18 00:00:55.819 --> 00:00:57.819 probably doesn't make sense that if their only 19 00:00:57.819 --> 00:01:02.504 mode is to be better than the other guy They should be spending more money to try 20 00:01:02.504 --> 00:01:04.504 and improve their performance effectively. 21 00:01:04.504 --> 00:01:05.486 But yeah, objectively, results are great. 22 00:01:05.686 --> 00:01:12.351 But the market was so used to smashing results that I think this was just not 23 00:01:12.351 --> 00:01:14.351 good enough to be positive. 24 00:01:14.351 --> 00:01:14.612 The market is slightly more mature. 25 00:01:14.652 --> 00:01:19.115 I mean, the share price and the company progression is more mature. 26 00:01:19.196 --> 00:01:24.940 So it's going to have to get a bigger and bigger beat every time in order to infuse 27 00:01:24.940 --> 00:01:26.940 investors. 28 00:01:26.940 --> 00:01:27.605 What about the R&D in the future? 29 00:01:27.665 --> 00:01:30.847 Because that has been a theme of many tech companies saying, 30 00:01:31.007 --> 00:01:35.750 I'm going to spend $150 billion over the next year on development. 31 00:01:35.790 --> 00:01:38.211 What did NVIDIA say about the future? 32 00:01:38.751 --> 00:01:42.013 Well, I think NVIDIA has had a couple of setbacks this year, especially, I think, 33 00:01:42.053 --> 00:01:46.095 around what is happening with regards to China. 34 00:01:46.535 --> 00:01:48.156 I think that may have been an issue. 35 00:01:48.536 --> 00:01:54.360 There was a recent news story about Microsoft and what they are doing with 36 00:01:54.360 --> 00:01:56.360 regards to this. 37 00:01:56.360 --> 00:01:58.360 cancelling some data centers. 38 00:01:58.360 --> 00:02:00.802 I think that also probably was a bit of bad news around it. 39 00:02:01.182 --> 00:02:04.363 But in terms of ROD, that's pretty much Vijaya's whole spend. 40 00:02:05.323 --> 00:02:08.224 They are not the company that basically produces these chips. 41 00:02:08.264 --> 00:02:11.785 They are not the company that has to go and build the factories and so on. 42 00:02:12.485 --> 00:02:16.626 Their main thing is basically the amount of tools. 43 00:02:16.926 --> 00:02:19.227 They basically design, make sure it's fine, 44 00:02:19.767 --> 00:02:24.068 and then they go out and they employ TSMC basically. 45 00:02:24.528 --> 00:02:29.251 uh to do what they what needs to be done uh i think you know 46 00:02:29.812 --> 00:02:36.356 16 billion in rd spending uh you know is is compared to what revenue they basically 47 00:02:36.356 --> 00:02:38.356 begin isn't that rd is 48 00:02:38.356 --> 00:02:43.381 primarily the main like cost uh it's not exactly i think a huge uh you know optic 49 00:02:43.381 --> 00:02:45.381 or a huge uh you know it was 50 00:02:45.381 --> 00:02:49.885 a danger right now so the rd spending thing out of a whack but to summarize 51 00:02:49.885 --> 00:02:51.885 you're still involved in 52 00:02:51.885 --> 00:02:55.093 nvidia and david you as well i'll start with you you still like it Yeah. 53 00:02:55.153 --> 00:03:01.056 The only thing I see that might be a danger to NVIDIA is that people think that 54 00:03:01.056 --> 00:03:03.056 NVIDIA's chips are what make them the outlier leader. 55 00:03:03.056 --> 00:03:05.056 But actually, their software is called CUDA. 56 00:03:05.056 --> 00:03:07.760 And the only thing I see as dangerous here is that DeepSeek has shown, that's the 57 00:03:07.760 --> 00:03:09.760 Chinese company, 58 00:03:09.760 --> 00:03:14.223 that it's possible to get around CUDA and get some really great results without it. 59 00:03:14.944 --> 00:03:20.727 If they lose that advantage in CUDA, I think that might be the thing because that 60 00:03:20.727 --> 00:03:22.727 would be the one mode that they can lose out on. 61 00:03:22.727 --> 00:03:23.889 But other than that, you know… As Jensen Wan said, 62 00:03:24.209 --> 00:03:28.731 the new reasoning models that are coming out use 100 times more computing power per 63 00:03:28.731 --> 00:03:28.951 query. 64 00:03:29.592 --> 00:03:31.993 That's just all-time good for tools than video. 65 00:03:32.414 --> 00:03:33.114 Okay. 66 00:03:33.114 --> 00:03:35.095 David, do you still like it, of course? 67 00:03:35.095 --> 00:03:36.556 I just like all the tech stocks. 68 00:03:36.636 --> 00:03:42.439 I think that this has given us, for the first time in a few months, quite 69 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:44.439 considerable months, 70 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.862 that I feel quite comfortable to go in and start picking up stock. 71 00:03:48.222 --> 00:03:51.064 You know, despite the noise, this is a year that I... 72 00:03:51.616 --> 00:03:56.337 that I knew or forecast that it's not going to be a great year. 73 00:03:56.377 --> 00:03:59.258 It's going to be, if we can get 10%, I'd be thrilled. 74 00:03:59.718 --> 00:04:03.359 So it's going to be a year where earnings catch up with share prices. 75 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:05.820 And I think we're going through that experience. 76 00:04:07.421 --> 00:04:10.061 The outlook still remains incredibly positive. 77 00:04:10.421 --> 00:04:12.502 Trying to perfect this, you know, 78 00:04:12.562 --> 00:04:18.764 trying to get the absolute perfect prices in each one of these companies is going to 79 00:04:18.764 --> 00:04:20.764 be impossible. 80 00:04:20.764 --> 00:04:22.764 But... 81 00:04:22.764 --> 00:04:24.569 If you take out the absolute result of all these big companies, they're still solid. 82 00:04:24.769 --> 00:04:25.950 They're still growing. 83 00:04:26.070 --> 00:04:27.491 They're still generating cash. 84 00:04:28.232 --> 00:04:30.694 And for me, that's what I'm looking at. 85 00:04:31.795 --> 00:04:34.417 Is there anything that's going to throw them off their perch? 86 00:04:35.278 --> 00:04:37.119 Not in the foreseeable future. 87 00:04:37.119 --> 00:04:39.001 And I think the same thing applies to NVIDIA. 88 00:04:39.001 --> 00:04:42.284 There's absolutely no doubt that along the way, 89 00:04:43.265 --> 00:04:46.047 we're going to see other companies come and challenge them. 90 00:04:46.451 --> 00:04:48.952 you know, challenge them for superiority, whatever. 91 00:04:49.032 --> 00:04:49.732 It's going to happen. 92 00:04:50.172 --> 00:04:53.333 But, I mean, for the meantime, you know, 93 00:04:53.413 --> 00:04:59.895 I'm quite happy to start building up and just be quiet about it, ignore the noise, 94 00:04:59.895 --> 00:05:01.895 and, 95 00:05:01.895 --> 00:05:05.056 you know, start picking up some decent positions. 96 00:05:05.636 --> 00:05:06.377 And we'll see. 97 00:05:06.737 --> 00:05:10.378 You know, there was nothing in the numbers that really shook me. 98 00:05:10.758 --> 00:05:12.718 I think, you know, we all look for something. 99 00:05:14.259 --> 00:05:14.959 And... 100 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:19.484 I suppose in every result that comes out, 101 00:05:19.844 --> 00:05:22.566 you can write a bullish report and you can write a bearish report. 102 00:05:23.748 --> 00:05:27.091 For each company, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. 103 00:05:27.611 --> 00:05:31.155 So I'm relaxed. 104 00:05:31.155 --> 00:05:38.081 I have to handle clients who like to watch their share prices, not on a daily basis, 105 00:05:38.141 --> 00:05:39.423 but on every five minutes. 106 00:05:40.415 --> 00:05:43.297 And I think that's the hardest thing to control. 107 00:05:43.457 --> 00:05:45.018 You must educate these people, David. 108 00:05:45.038 --> 00:05:51.242 You must educate them to take a deep breath and stop watching the news and stop 109 00:05:51.242 --> 00:05:53.242 listening to stupid podcasts. 110 00:05:53.242 --> 00:05:53.423 That's what they do. 111 00:05:53.843 --> 00:05:55.164 That's what they do. 112 00:05:55.304 --> 00:05:59.107 Also to point out a fact here, Nvidia in the last year is up 62%. 113 00:06:00.027 --> 00:06:05.831 And today on these results is down under 5%, 4% at the moment. 114 00:06:06.859 --> 00:06:10.361 That is almost no reaction to the market for the market that's basically been as 115 00:06:10.361 --> 00:06:12.361 positive as it is on the stock. 116 00:06:12.361 --> 00:06:14.022 So it's almost a nothing burger, quite frankly. 117 00:06:14.523 --> 00:06:18.244 Unlike Tesla, of course, which since December the 17th has fallen 39 percent. 118 00:06:18.404 --> 00:06:20.685 And that was as of the close last night. 119 00:06:21.326 --> 00:06:27.128 And people are defiling Tesla motorcars in Europe and the United States of America, 120 00:06:27.228 --> 00:06:32.210 putting red X's on them and just generally spraying them with stuff. 121 00:06:32.611 --> 00:06:33.311 And Mr. 122 00:06:33.311 --> 00:06:33.791 Trump. 123 00:06:33.791 --> 00:06:36.852 You know, everyone talks about him being worth 300, 400 billion, whatever it is. 124 00:06:37.172 --> 00:06:39.493 It's all paper money, of course, or most of it. 125 00:06:39.894 --> 00:06:44.996 And he, in that period, had his wealth reduced by 78 billion. 126 00:06:45.156 --> 00:06:51.418 Viv, you've always gone on about this not being a motor car company, but a tech 127 00:06:51.418 --> 00:06:53.418 company. 128 00:06:53.418 --> 00:06:55.580 Is this an opportunity for people when it's down in a double bear market? 129 00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:58.161 Yeah, look, I mean, there's a couple of things coming for Tesla. 130 00:06:58.161 --> 00:06:59.321 I actually did a report on this today. 131 00:06:59.722 --> 00:07:03.003 Firstly, of course, there's the Elon Musk, you know, like you mentioned, the brand 132 00:07:03.003 --> 00:07:03.123 issue. 133 00:07:03.443 --> 00:07:09.807 The second thing is the fact that Trump has reduced the benefits that you have for 134 00:07:09.807 --> 00:07:11.807 electric vehicles. 135 00:07:11.807 --> 00:07:13.807 It's obviously a negative. 136 00:07:13.807 --> 00:07:15.807 And also the Chinese market. 137 00:07:15.807 --> 00:07:15.872 I mean, I've seen reports of the Chinese market. 138 00:07:15.992 --> 00:07:20.635 The Chinese, apparently in China, the only people that buy electric vehicles who buy 139 00:07:20.635 --> 00:07:22.635 Tesla are the guys that don't know 140 00:07:22.635 --> 00:07:24.017 cars and they go and buy the most reliable, well-known name. 141 00:07:24.518 --> 00:07:25.578 It's like the Toyota of cars. 142 00:07:25.799 --> 00:07:29.761 Effectively, you buy a Toyota because it's not going to go wrong on it. 143 00:07:30.202 --> 00:07:35.989 But if you look at the other options available, with regards to like you know 144 00:07:35.989 --> 00:07:37.989 the chinese markets there's some spectacular i mean uh 145 00:07:37.989 --> 00:07:39.652 you know features on that on those on those cars and there's some of the like 146 00:07:39.652 --> 00:07:41.652 the technological 147 00:07:41.652 --> 00:07:46.456 things like charging rates and so on are insanely good uh so i do think there's a 148 00:07:46.456 --> 00:07:48.456 lot of things but look even if tesla was to have the best 149 00:07:48.456 --> 00:07:53.341 profit margins of any car company and created the majority of cars in the world 150 00:07:53.341 --> 00:07:55.341 that were sold in the world it would not be worth what it is currently 151 00:07:55.341 --> 00:07:57.964 so it has to be the full self-driving it has to be the robot taxi it has to be the 152 00:07:57.964 --> 00:07:59.964 the 153 00:07:59.964 --> 00:08:04.024 uh the robot and because i do believe that those things are coming I'm still a holder 154 00:08:04.024 --> 00:08:04.044 of Tesla. 155 00:08:05.165 --> 00:08:10.688 As a car company alone, if Tesla, like I said, number one car company in the world, 156 00:08:10.688 --> 00:08:12.688 sold the most cars with the biggest profit margin, 157 00:08:12.688 --> 00:08:14.470 I would short it at this level because it does not make sense from that point of 158 00:08:14.470 --> 00:08:14.610 view. 159 00:08:14.610 --> 00:08:15.170 Very good. 160 00:08:15.231 --> 00:08:16.511 Couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow. 161 00:08:16.751 --> 00:08:23.335 I got very, last week I told you I was very depressed about Trump saying that 162 00:08:23.335 --> 00:08:25.335 Zelensky was a dictator. 163 00:08:25.335 --> 00:08:29.379 Last night at around about six o'clock European time, I watched that, the 164 00:08:29.379 --> 00:08:29.398 sideshow. 165 00:08:29.723 --> 00:08:36.487 that was the cabinet meeting and the main show which was the press asking trump and 166 00:08:36.487 --> 00:08:38.487 musk questions during the cabinet 167 00:08:38.487 --> 00:08:43.431 meeting and all the other cabinet members saying nothing and musk standing there in 168 00:08:43.431 --> 00:08:45.431 an emblazoned t-shirt and an 169 00:08:45.431 --> 00:08:50.415 ill-fitting black cap it was just undignified to watch that but anyway 170 00:08:50.415 --> 00:08:52.415 nonetheless david on to south africa now 171 00:08:52.415 --> 00:08:52.656 you said you said no you did right i 172 00:08:52.656 --> 00:08:57.539 i just think it's something that that is dragging down the whole 173 00:08:57.939 --> 00:09:04.925 Trump administration that you've got someone like Musk going into the White 174 00:09:04.945 --> 00:09:07.828 House, which is really the nerve center of 175 00:09:08.488 --> 00:09:12.472 America, which is the most powerful country in the world. 176 00:09:13.392 --> 00:09:19.798 Here you've got him treating it like, you know, it's his golf club or whatever it 177 00:09:19.798 --> 00:09:21.798 is, his local pub, 178 00:09:21.798 --> 00:09:25.103 you know, to walk in like that and not give it the dignity that it deserves. 179 00:09:25.203 --> 00:09:25.903 I mean. 180 00:09:25.903 --> 00:09:27.912 I don't know how they can carry on like that. 181 00:09:28.212 --> 00:09:35.014 And I don't want to say conservative people, but I mean just people who've got 182 00:09:35.014 --> 00:09:37.014 respect for history, got respect for the institution. 183 00:09:37.014 --> 00:09:39.014 You know, that's not the way you carry on. 184 00:09:39.014 --> 00:09:41.836 You know, they've turned it into a sandpit, like the kindergarten sandpit. 185 00:09:42.236 --> 00:09:43.997 You know, I take... 186 00:09:44.449 --> 00:09:49.914 I genuinely, I take a lot of exception to the way that they carry on and the way 187 00:09:49.914 --> 00:09:51.914 they, you know, 188 00:09:51.914 --> 00:09:53.497 they treat the United States as, oh, well, this is the golf club, you know, 189 00:09:53.517 --> 00:10:00.142 let's decide whether to start selling burgers or something like, you know, I 190 00:10:00.142 --> 00:10:02.142 mean, that kind of level. 191 00:10:02.142 --> 00:10:02.144 Do you understand what I'm saying? 192 00:10:02.164 --> 00:10:03.325 I know exactly what you're saying. 193 00:10:03.405 --> 00:10:08.309 And the only reason that it's happening is because Trump knows that in three and 194 00:10:08.309 --> 00:10:10.309 three quarter years time, 195 00:10:10.309 --> 00:10:12.633 he won't be president unless he manages to change the constitution like Putin did. 196 00:10:12.913 --> 00:10:14.353 in Russia, but that's not going to happen. 197 00:10:15.154 --> 00:10:16.594 So he's having a load of fun. 198 00:10:16.634 --> 00:10:20.055 David, the JSC is in the middle of results season. 199 00:10:20.355 --> 00:10:21.535 There's so much to look at. 200 00:10:21.875 --> 00:10:25.416 Motors currently down 13.3%. 201 00:10:25.496 --> 00:10:27.477 That's a big move we've had in Parler Platinum. 202 00:10:27.957 --> 00:10:31.978 MTN with numbers or trading updates and so many more. 203 00:10:32.038 --> 00:10:35.919 Yesterday we had ABN Biv, which was up 7.5% at one stage. 204 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:39.300 We've got Harmony today and all sorts of other things. 205 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:42.481 You're going to have to obviously be selective and tell us which one. 206 00:10:42.785 --> 00:10:43.846 You've managed to skim. 207 00:10:44.246 --> 00:10:45.987 Well, I started to look at MTN. 208 00:10:46.227 --> 00:10:48.949 You know, they came out early this morning as a trading update. 209 00:10:49.270 --> 00:10:51.111 We knew the results were going to be bad. 210 00:10:51.151 --> 00:10:52.232 It's an annual result. 211 00:10:52.292 --> 00:10:56.355 And also that they were absolutely hammered by the depreciation of the Naira. 212 00:10:56.875 --> 00:10:58.556 That's the Nigerian currency. 213 00:10:59.557 --> 00:11:04.060 So I think all the bad news in their results had already been discounted. 214 00:11:04.400 --> 00:11:07.202 There was nothing new in what came out. 215 00:11:07.522 --> 00:11:09.344 The other one that upset me was SPAR. 216 00:11:09.664 --> 00:11:11.005 They came out with an 18. 217 00:11:11.573 --> 00:11:12.914 week trading update. 218 00:11:12.934 --> 00:11:13.634 You know, we... 219 00:11:13.634 --> 00:11:15.615 Down 62% currently. 220 00:11:15.615 --> 00:11:16.776 Yeah, that's a big fall. 221 00:11:17.036 --> 00:11:18.157 Yeah, that's a big fall. 222 00:11:19.778 --> 00:11:26.522 Switzerland, Ireland, and Southwest UK still issues there, not, 223 00:11:26.582 --> 00:11:28.743 you know, not finding any kind of support. 224 00:11:29.103 --> 00:11:32.865 And the local market, nothing to, you know, to be excited about as well. 225 00:11:33.305 --> 00:11:34.606 So, but... 226 00:11:34.686 --> 00:11:36.327 And the other was motors. 227 00:11:36.627 --> 00:11:39.149 You know, you mentioned motors down 30%. 228 00:11:39.149 --> 00:11:39.849 And this... 229 00:11:40.309 --> 00:11:44.051 What's interesting about Motus is, in fact, 230 00:11:44.191 --> 00:11:48.094 all the results are pointing towards consumers under pressure, 231 00:11:48.534 --> 00:11:53.577 higher interest rates and lower disposable income. 232 00:11:53.917 --> 00:12:00.141 So what's happening in Motus case, you know, 233 00:12:00.181 --> 00:12:06.824 they bring in motor vehicles from South Korea and good motor vehicles. 234 00:12:06.924 --> 00:12:07.865 But what's happening? 235 00:12:08.085 --> 00:12:09.946 At one stage, they were affordable. 236 00:12:10.406 --> 00:12:11.446 Now, no longer. 237 00:12:11.466 --> 00:12:17.029 They now become, now everybody's switching to the cheaper Chinese models that are 238 00:12:17.029 --> 00:12:19.029 flooding this country. 239 00:12:19.029 --> 00:12:22.351 So by trading down to the cheaper vehicles, 240 00:12:23.511 --> 00:12:25.612 it's hurting their sales. 241 00:12:25.812 --> 00:12:29.694 And so the results were disappointing. 242 00:12:30.114 --> 00:12:34.956 And that's why the market, I haven't gone through them in great detail to understand 243 00:12:34.956 --> 00:12:36.956 why it's 13%, 244 00:12:36.956 --> 00:12:37.457 but I think that's a general trend. 245 00:12:37.797 --> 00:12:42.839 But, Lindsay, that's what we are seeing across our market. 246 00:12:43.660 --> 00:12:46.261 Consumers under pressure, haven't got the money. 247 00:12:46.721 --> 00:12:49.222 I think in all cases, even in retailers, 248 00:12:49.482 --> 00:12:54.844 we're starting to see a lot of pressure on many of them. 249 00:12:54.924 --> 00:12:56.025 Two-worths results out. 250 00:12:56.085 --> 00:12:56.965 I haven't had a look. 251 00:12:57.305 --> 00:12:59.746 Two-worths, share price up a couple of percent. 252 00:12:59.806 --> 00:13:02.988 They used to come out with great results, but, yeah. 253 00:13:03.208 --> 00:13:04.088 Look at it on the year. 254 00:13:04.168 --> 00:13:05.949 It's down about 20% on the year. 255 00:13:06.645 --> 00:13:07.566 which gives an idea. 256 00:13:08.266 --> 00:13:09.287 But a lot to go through. 257 00:13:09.307 --> 00:13:15.111 I think if I could just summarize it, there is a lot of pressure. 258 00:13:15.391 --> 00:13:20.715 ABMB doesn't do any business here besides SA Breweries, which had very good numbers. 259 00:13:20.815 --> 00:13:23.437 But I think there again, they're reducing debt. 260 00:13:24.358 --> 00:13:27.420 I don't think volume sales where people are crowing about their results, 261 00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:34.305 but I still think that had to do with more efficiencies rather than going out there 262 00:13:34.305 --> 00:13:36.305 and selling lots and 263 00:13:36.305 --> 00:13:38.305 lots of beer. 264 00:13:38.305 --> 00:13:40.305 Viv, would you agree with David? 265 00:13:40.305 --> 00:13:43.676 When I look at these results that have come out over the last week or so of 266 00:13:43.676 --> 00:13:45.676 results season, it's not a sort of a blanket buy, 267 00:13:45.676 --> 00:13:47.676 a blanket sell or a blanket hold. 268 00:13:47.676 --> 00:13:49.879 There are certain companies that are adapting and certain companies that are 269 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:50.259 not. 270 00:13:50.319 --> 00:13:52.460 You look at Spar down six and two thirds percent. 271 00:13:52.780 --> 00:13:58.062 You see Trueworths, although longer term, horribly down up to two point six percent 272 00:13:58.062 --> 00:14:00.062 today. 273 00:14:00.062 --> 00:14:04.285 So is it very much a sniper shot market rather than a shotgun market? 274 00:14:05.093 --> 00:14:07.395 I think that is quite likely true, at least at the moment. 275 00:14:07.655 --> 00:14:09.817 I mean, there have obviously been these big trends over time. 276 00:14:09.857 --> 00:14:14.401 And if you look at it internationally, it has been the tech trend that has driven 277 00:14:14.401 --> 00:14:14.600 things, 278 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.003 even though it has reversed quite strongly in the last couple of weeks. 279 00:14:17.824 --> 00:14:21.407 I do think that another big trend we saw today was the gold price. 280 00:14:21.707 --> 00:14:23.608 In fact, anything against the dollar was down. 281 00:14:24.129 --> 00:14:26.711 I think this has to do with the Trump tariff announcements that we had come out. 282 00:14:27.011 --> 00:14:33.957 So if you look at it over half an hour time, you saw the round, the euro, the 283 00:14:33.957 --> 00:14:35.957 pound, basically everything that's measured against the dollar. 284 00:14:35.957 --> 00:14:37.957 weakened significantly. 285 00:14:37.957 --> 00:14:41.650 You know, we were like 1840, we went to like 1850, like, you know, a very quick 286 00:14:41.650 --> 00:14:41.910 time. 287 00:14:41.910 --> 00:14:43.531 We saw some of the movements around the thing. 288 00:14:43.831 --> 00:14:46.854 So you could play those back road trends, you know, quite clearly. 289 00:14:47.274 --> 00:14:49.315 But it doesn't, individual stocks, yes, you are correct. 290 00:14:49.355 --> 00:14:50.956 This is, I mean, especially the retail sector. 291 00:14:50.976 --> 00:14:56.740 I do think the retail sector, people don't appreciate this, is going through a 292 00:14:56.740 --> 00:14:58.740 rebalancing that's going to be quite significant. 293 00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:00.002 And, you know, the winners are not going to be the ones that were winners in the 294 00:15:00.002 --> 00:15:00.342 past. 295 00:15:00.563 --> 00:15:05.086 Speaking to David's point about, you know, the Chinese cars, I'm looking to buy a car 296 00:15:05.086 --> 00:15:05.265 at the moment. 297 00:15:05.502 --> 00:15:09.866 When you go look at the Chinese vehicles for what you get, you know, you know, you 298 00:15:09.866 --> 00:15:10.065 know, 299 00:15:10.065 --> 00:15:15.050 for what you probably get like a middle level, you know, VW or something like that 300 00:15:15.050 --> 00:15:15.450 there. 301 00:15:15.511 --> 00:15:19.454 What the Chinese guys are offering is, you know, quite substantially better. 302 00:15:20.936 --> 00:15:24.759 And, you know, I think it's partly to do with the fact that, you know, that you 303 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:26.759 interest the market. 304 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:27.521 But also, I mean, these guys are the manufacturing of the world. 305 00:15:27.701 --> 00:15:28.842 They can manufacture iPhones. 306 00:15:28.842 --> 00:15:30.324 They can probably manufacture cars as well. 307 00:15:30.784 --> 00:15:32.706 And they bring in that manufacturing power to bear on. 308 00:15:33.046 --> 00:15:35.928 a market that they haven't really, you know, attacked internationally as 309 00:15:35.928 --> 00:15:36.228 strongly. 310 00:15:36.449 --> 00:15:43.074 And like I said, I mean, the feature set that you would get from a car comparable 311 00:15:43.074 --> 00:15:45.074 to like an entry-level BMW is astounding. 312 00:15:45.074 --> 00:15:46.557 That's a very important point there. 313 00:15:46.817 --> 00:15:47.517 Okay. 314 00:15:47.517 --> 00:15:49.239 And, you know, if you, Lindsay, 315 00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:55.825 it depends if you're a motor enthusiast and you love all the different buttons 316 00:15:55.825 --> 00:15:57.825 that will come out and, 317 00:15:57.825 --> 00:16:02.170 or the software that comes with these fancy German vehicles or high level. 318 00:16:02.690 --> 00:16:05.112 Okay, that's one thing, but you have to afford it. 319 00:16:05.352 --> 00:16:11.876 But if you just want to go from A to B, something like that, with your children or 320 00:16:11.876 --> 00:16:13.876 go shopping, whatever, 321 00:16:13.876 --> 00:16:15.876 who cares? 322 00:16:15.876 --> 00:16:17.876 Do you know what I mean? 323 00:16:17.876 --> 00:16:19.876 They will provide what you need. 324 00:16:19.876 --> 00:16:21.876 And I think this is what everyone's finding. 325 00:16:21.876 --> 00:16:26.226 I think they're taking South Africa by storm and 326 00:16:26.286 --> 00:16:29.849 making a big impact on traditional sales. 327 00:16:30.389 --> 00:16:34.271 You can see it, which would include… Toyota would include the Japanese. 328 00:16:34.772 --> 00:16:39.694 You know, now it's hitting Hyundai and it's hitting Kia, it's hitting all of 329 00:16:39.694 --> 00:16:41.694 those. 330 00:16:41.694 --> 00:16:44.517 Gentlemen, I will confess to this, I don't own a motor car, I don't drive, 331 00:16:44.537 --> 00:16:49.640 I don't think I'll ever drive again simply because I choose not to because I'm a sort 332 00:16:49.640 --> 00:16:51.640 of a pseudo-environmentalist. 333 00:16:51.640 --> 00:16:56.243 The last time I drove a motor car, I think I drove to Barcelona to watch a football 334 00:16:56.243 --> 00:16:58.243 match in a hired car and that was it. 335 00:16:58.243 --> 00:17:01.506 When I left South Africa seven, eight years ago, that was the last time I owned 336 00:17:01.506 --> 00:17:03.506 a car. 337 00:17:03.506 --> 00:17:05.537 And I'm sort of smugly proud of myself because of that. 338 00:17:05.717 --> 00:17:07.939 I noticed the S&P is down. 339 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:11.942 You can choose who answers this question. 340 00:17:12.243 --> 00:17:15.986 The S&P made a high today of 6,014 on the futures. 341 00:17:16.006 --> 00:17:18.588 It's now 5,944. 342 00:17:18.808 --> 00:17:22.952 Has there been data in the last half hour that has driven this market down? 343 00:17:23.232 --> 00:17:26.234 Or is everyone saying this is a sell the rallies market? 344 00:17:26.294 --> 00:17:27.495 Viv, I'll start with you, actually. 345 00:17:27.495 --> 00:17:30.578 I think this market is just adjusting to the Trump. 346 00:17:30.678 --> 00:17:37.481 tariff announcement uh i think that's that's the big thing i mean he's talked 347 00:17:37.481 --> 00:17:39.481 about uh you know basically next week uh china it was 348 00:17:39.481 --> 00:17:44.504 uh china big tariffs of uh canada also and soon to announce you know eu tariffs as 349 00:17:44.504 --> 00:17:46.504 well uh so i think 350 00:17:46.504 --> 00:17:49.686 that is what actually is the big story of the day and i think the market's trying to 351 00:17:49.686 --> 00:17:51.686 figure out what's what's going to be happening right 352 00:17:51.686 --> 00:17:52.947 now and that's what we're seeing at the moment is that uh uncertainty okay 353 00:17:52.967 --> 00:17:59.250 yeah all right it is looking oversold to me but um it doesn't like it when it goes 354 00:17:59.250 --> 00:17:59.570 up you 355 00:18:00.234 --> 00:18:06.677 I don't think even today at the end of today or the end of tomorrow will probably 356 00:18:06.677 --> 00:18:08.677 end up but at the moment 357 00:18:08.677 --> 00:18:13.900 everyone's confused no one if you're owning a pers if you're owning a business 358 00:18:13.900 --> 00:18:15.900 and you're trying to uh 359 00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:17.381 strategize the way forward or decide what to do with 360 00:18:17.481 --> 00:18:24.244 Trump in part with Trump in charge for that you can't make a decision you've got 361 00:18:24.244 --> 00:18:26.244 absolutely no idea 362 00:18:26.244 --> 00:18:31.039 what's coming and what's real what's strict what's not thick and and And I 363 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:33.039 think Viv's 100% right. 364 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:34.860 At the moment, people are just saying, you know, we can't make up our mind. 365 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:37.060 And I think it's coming through in traders as well. 366 00:18:37.641 --> 00:18:43.462 They can smell that there's weakness and, you know, they're having a field day. 367 00:18:43.562 --> 00:18:50.144 But as long as you know that we're much lower now, I haven't got the data in front 368 00:18:50.144 --> 00:18:50.384 of me, 369 00:18:50.384 --> 00:18:52.865 but I think we are much lower than when he was elected. 370 00:18:52.925 --> 00:18:55.066 When he was elected, we thought that... 371 00:18:56.399 --> 00:19:02.322 Everything was going to be fine, deregulation, lower taxes, even if there 372 00:19:02.322 --> 00:19:04.322 were tariffs and immigration. 373 00:19:04.322 --> 00:19:07.886 We thought that all of those, his whole policies would actually drive the U.S. 374 00:19:07.946 --> 00:19:11.308 economy stronger and that things would be better. 375 00:19:11.348 --> 00:19:14.470 We'd have what's called U.S. exceptionalism. 376 00:19:15.662 --> 00:19:16.623 You know, it's not. 377 00:19:16.683 --> 00:19:17.383 We're actually, 378 00:19:17.844 --> 00:19:24.769 what he's done is created unbelievable uncertainty in markets now that 379 00:19:24.769 --> 00:19:26.769 exceptionalism is 380 00:19:26.769 --> 00:19:28.769 being challenged. 381 00:19:28.769 --> 00:19:29.732 And it's not only going to challenge America, but challenge the rest of the 382 00:19:29.732 --> 00:19:31.732 world as well. 383 00:19:31.732 --> 00:19:32.274 No one has a clue. 384 00:19:33.775 --> 00:19:37.498 Someone has a clue because Tesla's 288 now, down a bit again, 385 00:19:37.958 --> 00:19:42.982 was 488 just about the same day that he was appointed as a special government 386 00:19:42.982 --> 00:19:44.982 employee. 387 00:19:44.982 --> 00:19:45.824 of the Department of Government Efficiency. 388 00:19:46.004 --> 00:19:48.506 So that's what the world thinks about that. 389 00:19:48.847 --> 00:19:55.132 David, you sent me an email early today about Ramaphosa having a nasty little dig 390 00:19:55.132 --> 00:19:55.211 at 391 00:19:55.672 --> 00:20:01.377 Trump, and you seem to be a little bit confused about this, if that's the correct 392 00:20:01.377 --> 00:20:03.377 word to use. 393 00:20:03.377 --> 00:20:05.377 Actually, a little bit surprised. 394 00:20:05.377 --> 00:20:08.803 And there's another couple of words you used as well, which I won't obviously 395 00:20:08.803 --> 00:20:10.803 broadcast. 396 00:20:10.803 --> 00:20:11.945 You know, my worry is South Africa. 397 00:20:11.965 --> 00:20:12.665 Uh... 398 00:20:12.842 --> 00:20:17.265 You're dealing with an unpredictable person, you know, a person that you can't 399 00:20:17.265 --> 00:20:19.265 read. 400 00:20:19.265 --> 00:20:23.048 Don't tell him that he's got the information wrong. 401 00:20:23.468 --> 00:20:26.410 In other words, don't correct him or lecture to him. 402 00:20:26.450 --> 00:20:28.491 I'm saying Rappaposa to Trump. 403 00:20:29.031 --> 00:20:34.134 He's not the kind of person that likes to be caught out and don't tell him that, you 404 00:20:34.134 --> 00:20:34.614 know, 405 00:20:34.614 --> 00:20:36.216 this is misinformation. 406 00:20:36.596 --> 00:20:41.915 So if South Africa wants to continue to trade with Trump, Just withdraw. 407 00:20:42.075 --> 00:20:46.477 Be a little humble and you know where the issues lie. 408 00:20:46.477 --> 00:20:51.920 The issue lies with South Africa's relationship with Iran, the whole ICC 409 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:53.920 case. 410 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:55.282 All of those issues are upsetting Trump. 411 00:20:55.782 --> 00:21:01.986 So if you want to do trade and you want to continue, just bear that in mind and don't 412 00:21:01.986 --> 00:21:03.986 lecture him. 413 00:21:03.986 --> 00:21:06.889 And that's what I'm worried is that Ramaphosa will not backtrack. 414 00:21:07.149 --> 00:21:08.670 The ANC will not backtrack. 415 00:21:08.730 --> 00:21:09.430 They say. 416 00:21:09.430 --> 00:21:10.531 We will not be bullied. 417 00:21:10.591 --> 00:21:11.751 I'm saying, hold on a sec. 418 00:21:12.171 --> 00:21:16.213 These are the Apple people, the Nvidia people, the Microsoft people, the Amazon. 419 00:21:16.513 --> 00:21:20.615 We use their products all the time, every day. 420 00:21:21.215 --> 00:21:24.116 Don't mess with him because he can pull the plug. 421 00:21:24.216 --> 00:21:25.857 You know, he's a spiteful person. 422 00:21:26.177 --> 00:21:28.558 He can pull the plug and turn the switch off. 423 00:21:28.938 --> 00:21:32.000 Just, you know, in other words, know who's strong. 424 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:37.202 I loved his face in the press conference with President Emmanuel Macron. 425 00:21:38.234 --> 00:21:39.935 yesterday or the day before, whenever it was. 426 00:21:40.255 --> 00:21:46.398 And he said, you know, the Europeans loan Ukraine money and Ukraine has to pay it 427 00:21:46.398 --> 00:21:46.597 back. 428 00:21:46.718 --> 00:21:53.400 And you saw Macron and he leant over with his right hand and put his right hand on 429 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:55.400 the arm of Donald Trump and said, 430 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:55.601 you're talking nonsense, essentially. 431 00:21:56.382 --> 00:21:58.002 And you could see Trump's face. 432 00:21:58.022 --> 00:21:59.583 He was screaming. 433 00:21:59.823 --> 00:22:03.484 He doesn't like to be taken to task. 434 00:22:04.065 --> 00:22:07.286 It's an amazing, it was an amazing press conference, I have to say. 435 00:22:07.486 --> 00:22:14.388 anyway gentlemen sorry the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 436 00:22:14.388 --> 00:22:16.388 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 437 00:22:16.388 --> 00:22:18.388 the the the the the the if you see what the merck's guy from uh if you see 438 00:22:18.388 --> 00:22:21.250 what the merck's guy from uh if you see what the merck's guy from uh germany is 439 00:22:21.250 --> 00:22:23.250 saying no go on um so the the germany is saying no go on um so the the germany is 440 00:22:23.250 --> 00:22:25.250 saying no 441 00:22:25.250 --> 00:22:26.871 go on um so the the most guy from germany basically the most guy from germany 442 00:22:26.871 --> 00:22:28.871 basically the most guy from germany basically the newly elected guy that tried 443 00:22:28.871 --> 00:22:30.871 to jump uh 444 00:22:30.871 --> 00:22:33.793 newly elected guy that tried to jump uh newly elected guy that tried to jump uh he 445 00:22:33.793 --> 00:22:35.793 came out and said basically uh i he came out and said basically uh i he came 446 00:22:35.793 --> 00:22:39.720 out and said basically uh i think it turns out like the usb doesn't you know, quite 447 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:41.720 reticent to take the lead role for obvious reasons. 448 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:47.044 But it does seem like the Germans are going to be, you know, at least the new 449 00:22:47.044 --> 00:22:49.044 German government is seeming to take a much more aggressive role about the U.S. 450 00:22:49.044 --> 00:22:49.845 and the German economy, of course, is still the largest in Europe. 451 00:22:50.206 --> 00:22:57.190 So I think Macron and the new German head here is going to be quite a different 452 00:22:57.190 --> 00:22:57.429 thing. 453 00:22:57.510 --> 00:23:03.233 Of course, the counterpart is that you're going to still see Obama on one side and 454 00:23:03.233 --> 00:23:05.233 Maloney on the other side, who are still quite pro-Trump. 455 00:23:05.233 --> 00:23:07.233 Let's see which faction wins there. 456 00:23:07.233 --> 00:23:09.634 Yes, and we've also got Keir Starmer, the PM of Britain, who's a bit of a lame duck 457 00:23:09.634 --> 00:23:11.634 in my opinion, 458 00:23:11.634 --> 00:23:13.877 but he's there right at this moment meeting with the orange man. 459 00:23:14.278 --> 00:23:20.983 Anyway, I was going to talk about the Trump Gaza video, but again, it's very 460 00:23:20.983 --> 00:23:22.983 distasteful. 461 00:23:22.983 --> 00:23:27.189 Golden statues of that man who'd been made to look taller and slimmer as well by 462 00:23:27.189 --> 00:23:29.189 whoever came up with that nonsense. 463 00:23:29.189 --> 00:23:33.374 Anyway, the dollar round is 1846, which has barely changed in the last 24 hours. 464 00:23:34.018 --> 00:23:36.099 British pound against the rand 23.32. 465 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:38.219 The euro rand is 19.24. 466 00:23:38.239 --> 00:23:43.481 The euro dollar 104.25, which is a euro that has fallen by 0.3%. 467 00:23:43.561 --> 00:23:49.442 The gold price, as Viv said earlier on, 28.79, which is a big move. 468 00:23:49.802 --> 00:23:52.563 That's over $50 weaker, or nearly 2%. 469 00:23:53.143 --> 00:23:55.804 Platinum, the same sort of story, but less dramatic. 470 00:23:55.804 --> 00:23:57.885 A 9.65 down $4. 471 00:23:58.405 --> 00:24:02.226 And Palladium down $15 an ounce to $9.16. 472 00:24:02.526 --> 00:24:08.811 per ounce so the metals having had so much um good news for for a number of years now 473 00:24:09.452 --> 00:24:16.217 not doing badly the yellow metal that is a crude oil is doing well though up two and 474 00:24:16.217 --> 00:24:18.217 a quarter percent seventy dollars eighteen that's for west 475 00:24:18.217 --> 00:24:21.602 texas and bread crude oil is seventy four dollars on the nose which is up just over 476 00:24:21.602 --> 00:24:23.602 uh 477 00:24:23.602 --> 00:24:28.387 two percent wheat price down two and a half i'm trying to looking for other ones 478 00:24:28.387 --> 00:24:30.387 but uh no uh crb index is 479 00:24:30.387 --> 00:24:32.953 down quite sharply actually uh taking a break you That's a 10-year bond yield. 480 00:24:33.414 --> 00:24:38.984 That is 10.76%. The US 10-year. Oh, by the way, Viv, 481 00:24:39.044 --> 00:24:40.787 you're a student of these things. 482 00:24:42.728 --> 00:24:48.473 Yield on the 10-year has gone below the yield on the 3-year in America. 483 00:24:48.993 --> 00:24:50.695 Am I getting this right or wrong here? 484 00:24:51.115 --> 00:24:55.158 Anyway, it's an inverted yield curve now, and that says there's going to be an 485 00:24:55.158 --> 00:24:57.158 economic slowdown. 486 00:24:57.158 --> 00:24:59.158 I'll get the details. 487 00:24:59.158 --> 00:25:01.158 But an inverted yield curve, Viv, what does that mean? 488 00:25:01.158 --> 00:25:05.527 Yeah, basically, these yield curves indicate what people expect, of course, 489 00:25:05.527 --> 00:25:07.527 the future payouts to be. 490 00:25:07.527 --> 00:25:11.412 And if you are seeing the future returns being significantly lower than the current 491 00:25:11.412 --> 00:25:11.491 returns, 492 00:25:12.216 --> 00:25:16.157 then you are assuming that there is going to be a trouble ahead and we're going to 493 00:25:16.157 --> 00:25:18.157 be forced to cut into ahead of that. 494 00:25:18.157 --> 00:25:19.438 And so that, I think, is something to be aware of here. 495 00:25:19.818 --> 00:25:26.460 But look, I am more uncertain about what's going to be happening going forward 496 00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:28.460 because, you know, irrespective of what Trump is doing, 497 00:25:28.460 --> 00:25:32.762 irrespective of everything else, I'm just so positive about technological changes 498 00:25:32.762 --> 00:25:34.762 that I do think that, you know, 499 00:25:34.762 --> 00:25:40.224 some of the growth rates we are likely to see in two or three years' time are going 500 00:25:40.224 --> 00:25:42.224 to be, you know, just because of technological changes, it doesn't matter 501 00:25:42.224 --> 00:25:44.224 who's in charge. 502 00:25:44.224 --> 00:25:46.224 You invent the steam engine, your country is going to grow. 503 00:25:46.224 --> 00:25:48.224 You invent computers, your country is going to grow. 504 00:25:48.224 --> 00:25:50.224 You get AI coming about, your country is going to grow. 505 00:25:50.224 --> 00:25:51.850 And I think that is one of the things that I'm thinking some of this is being 506 00:25:51.850 --> 00:25:53.850 surprised at the moment. 507 00:25:53.850 --> 00:25:55.850 Okay. 508 00:25:55.850 --> 00:25:57.850 Actually, this is the story. 509 00:25:57.850 --> 00:25:59.850 I got it wrong, not the three-year. 510 00:25:59.850 --> 00:26:00.935 It says here, the 10-year Treasury yield passed below the three-month yield on 511 00:26:00.935 --> 00:26:00.995 Wednesday, 512 00:26:01.576 --> 00:26:03.857 sparking fears of an economic downturn. 513 00:26:03.857 --> 00:26:08.559 An inverted yield curve, as it's called, is the Fed's favourite recession 514 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.559 indicator, David. 515 00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:12.559 Yeah, yeah. 516 00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:15.386 In fact, what's happened from zero rate cuts now, the market's pricing in at least 517 00:26:15.386 --> 00:26:15.606 two. 518 00:26:16.147 --> 00:26:20.388 And that's a big change from where we were at the last Fed meeting. 519 00:26:21.129 --> 00:26:25.691 So, you know, there's certainly and 520 00:26:26.671 --> 00:26:33.054 I still believe this has been triggered by consumer 521 00:26:33.494 --> 00:26:37.916 confidence indices, which are plunging, you know, lowest in many, many years. 522 00:26:38.608 --> 00:26:41.069 the result of uncertainty around Trump. 523 00:26:41.409 --> 00:26:43.689 Nobody has a clue what's coming. 524 00:26:43.910 --> 00:26:48.331 You know, when you start talking about tariff increases, who pays for it? 525 00:26:48.331 --> 00:26:49.091 The consumers. 526 00:26:49.391 --> 00:26:53.252 You know, they've got absolutely no idea what's going to happen. 527 00:26:54.012 --> 00:26:57.353 To be honest, I don't even think Trump knows himself, honestly. 528 00:26:58.273 --> 00:27:04.695 I think he's, unfortunately, the chips in his head get wiped out clean every night, 529 00:27:04.695 --> 00:27:06.695 you know, like you turn off your computer. 530 00:27:06.736 --> 00:27:07.436 Anyway. 531 00:27:08.757 --> 00:27:11.679 I watch him, as you know, with a lot of fascination. 532 00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:18.944 It's almost as though something comes into his head and he hasn't been listening to 533 00:27:18.944 --> 00:27:20.944 other people's comments or anything and he just blurts it 534 00:27:20.944 --> 00:27:22.944 out. 535 00:27:22.944 --> 00:27:24.944 Last night he talked for, I think, 536 00:27:24.944 --> 00:27:29.451 12 minutes non-stop with one question and the question that was asked of him took up 537 00:27:29.451 --> 00:27:31.451 about 47 seconds 538 00:27:31.451 --> 00:27:33.451 and then he goes off. 539 00:27:33.451 --> 00:27:35.451 He's off. 540 00:27:35.451 --> 00:27:37.451 He's rambling. 541 00:27:37.451 --> 00:27:39.451 He's like a puppy. 542 00:27:39.451 --> 00:27:41.451 You take him off the lead. 543 00:27:41.451 --> 00:27:42.041 and he just runs and runs and runs. 544 00:27:42.041 --> 00:27:42.741 He goes mad. 545 00:27:42.741 --> 00:27:44.763 But the counterpart to that says, okay, look at Germany, right? 546 00:27:44.983 --> 00:27:46.805 Run by proper grown-up people. 547 00:27:47.525 --> 00:27:52.569 They still went out and put down their power plants when they were dependent on 548 00:27:52.569 --> 00:27:52.649 Russian oil. 549 00:27:53.150 --> 00:27:54.831 You know, look at Xi Jinping. 550 00:27:55.151 --> 00:27:56.032 I think China's done well. 551 00:27:56.393 --> 00:28:00.316 And he goes and destroys his local tech industry just as AI is about to happen. 552 00:28:02.177 --> 00:28:03.578 None of these politicians know what they're doing. 553 00:28:03.698 --> 00:28:04.398 They are just... 554 00:28:04.398 --> 00:28:05.280 They're in a big... 555 00:28:06.661 --> 00:28:08.441 Look at the UK with Brexit, okay? 556 00:28:11.283 --> 00:28:14.504 Well caught out and smart about some things that you find. 557 00:28:14.584 --> 00:28:18.766 Trump, on the other hand, the one thing that's positive about him is because he's 558 00:28:18.766 --> 00:28:20.766 so erratic. 559 00:28:20.766 --> 00:28:22.766 He doesn't actually do anything. 560 00:28:22.766 --> 00:28:24.766 You know what I mean? 561 00:28:24.766 --> 00:28:26.766 And that is the positive effect of him. 562 00:28:26.766 --> 00:28:30.171 He says a lot of stuff but doesn't actually do anything, which might be 563 00:28:30.171 --> 00:28:32.171 actually much better than saying a lot of stuff and doing something. 564 00:28:32.692 --> 00:28:35.695 You've got to say, though, he's great fun, even though he's disturbing. 565 00:28:35.755 --> 00:28:37.236 He's really, really good fun. 566 00:28:37.276 --> 00:28:43.842 And when he goes, which he will, obviously, either, you know, as Viv, you 567 00:28:43.842 --> 00:28:45.842 said on a couple of occasions, 568 00:28:45.842 --> 00:28:47.842 he's obese. 569 00:28:47.842 --> 00:28:49.842 He's at a certain age. 570 00:28:49.842 --> 00:28:49.967 And statistically, he hasn't got that long. 571 00:28:50.007 --> 00:28:52.389 I don't wish him that, of course, because I shall miss him. 572 00:28:52.450 --> 00:28:55.452 But, yeah, what a man. 573 00:28:56.353 --> 00:28:59.596 On the JSC today, Fortress B up five and a third percent. 574 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:05.524 After the property index yesterday had a bad day, Outshore was up 2.5%, Italtal up 575 00:29:05.524 --> 00:29:07.524 2.1%, Tungela up 2%, 576 00:29:07.524 --> 00:29:08.026 and Truas nearly 2% to the good. 577 00:29:08.426 --> 00:29:14.030 Downside, the red ones, Motus down nearly 14% on the close after the auction, 578 00:29:14.490 --> 00:29:19.594 Spa down over 7%, Harmony down nearly 5%, Sappy down just over 4%, 579 00:29:20.234 --> 00:29:24.397 and Sibania still water in the red to the tune of 4%. 580 00:29:24.637 --> 00:29:26.138 David, the closing indices, please. 581 00:29:26.138 --> 00:29:28.760 Well, the Altair closed down 1%. 582 00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:35.684 point one three percent with weakness right across the board most of it coming 583 00:29:35.684 --> 00:29:37.684 from the mining sector platinum and gold shares 584 00:29:37.684 --> 00:29:41.088 but overall the resource index down 1.7 um banks down 585 00:29:41.208 --> 00:29:47.023 1.8 percent um the I'm just looking at the industrial index. 586 00:29:47.983 --> 00:29:51.124 That was down 0.9%. 587 00:29:51.144 --> 00:29:52.884 So, listed property up slightly, I think. 588 00:29:53.684 --> 00:29:56.945 Some of the I'm not quite sure what lifted them. 589 00:29:56.965 --> 00:29:58.606 I'm trying to find them as I talk to you. 590 00:29:59.066 --> 00:30:02.887 But Fortress, perhaps one of them that added to that industry. 591 00:30:02.987 --> 00:30:05.928 But, I mean, that's overall not a good day. 592 00:30:06.348 --> 00:30:10.689 Volumes, $22 billion, still dominated by gold shares and by 593 00:30:11.129 --> 00:30:15.671 NASPERS, which is still in demand by on a daily basis. 594 00:30:16.172 --> 00:30:20.936 Every day is kind of the most traded stock. 595 00:30:21.096 --> 00:30:22.617 That's about it. 596 00:30:22.657 --> 00:30:25.079 Well, David and Viv, thank you very much for your time. 597 00:30:25.159 --> 00:30:27.221 As always, fascinating insights from both of you. 598 00:30:27.441 --> 00:30:29.403 David Shapiro is from Sasson Securities. 599 00:30:29.543 --> 00:30:32.445 Viv Govender from Grand Swiss, both in Johannesburg. 600 00:30:32.746 --> 00:30:34.307 And that was the 5 o'clock shadow. 601 00:30:34.827 --> 00:30:41.773 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and 602 00:30:41.773 --> 00:30:43.773 various contributors and do not reflect the policy, 603 00:30:43.773 --> 00:30:46.272 position, or opinion of any other agency, organization, employer, 604 00:30:46.612 --> 00:30:50.455 or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 605 00:30:50.935 --> 00:30:57.899 Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the position of any other 606 00:30:57.899 --> 00:30:59.899 entity other than the speaker or the author. 607 00:30:59.899 --> 00:31:04.083 And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to 608 00:31:04.083 --> 00:31:06.083 change, revision, 609 00:31:06.083 --> 00:31:06.224 and rethinking at any time. 610 00:31:06.524 --> 00:31:08.946 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.