WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.392 --> 00:00:05.614 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. 2 00:00:05.614 --> 00:00:09.556 The JSC has closed its doors for another day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock 3 00:00:09.556 --> 00:00:09.656 shadow. 4 00:00:09.996 --> 00:00:15.678 And as always on a Thursday, I speak to David Shapiro from Sasson Securities and 5 00:00:15.678 --> 00:00:17.678 Viv Govender from RAND Swiss, 6 00:00:17.678 --> 00:00:19.678 and they're both in Johannesburg. 7 00:00:19.678 --> 00:00:22.961 And David, I'll start with you, because it's been, it's been a busy week, and 8 00:00:22.961 --> 00:00:24.961 we'll start with economic stuff, because first of all, 9 00:00:24.961 --> 00:00:28.784 we had the Fed Minutes, and secondly, we had, no, we didn't have the Fed Minutes, 10 00:00:28.784 --> 00:00:30.784 sorry, we had... 11 00:00:30.784 --> 00:00:33.227 We had CPI and then we had Jerome Powell before Congress. 12 00:00:33.547 --> 00:00:40.071 CPI being a little bit stubborn, ticking up to 2.9% and core inflation, I think, 3% 13 00:00:40.171 --> 00:00:40.992 or the other way around. 14 00:00:41.192 --> 00:00:44.294 But whatever, it ticked up fractionally. 15 00:00:44.815 --> 00:00:46.816 Is that a worrisome thing for the markets? 16 00:00:47.717 --> 00:00:48.417 No. 17 00:00:48.417 --> 00:00:50.518 No, the markets are basically brushed it aside. 18 00:00:50.919 --> 00:00:52.720 And if you look at the S&P at the moment, 19 00:00:52.780 --> 00:00:58.564 it's up yesterday as well when the CPI came out. 20 00:00:59.088 --> 00:01:00.829 I thought that there'd be concern. 21 00:01:00.869 --> 00:01:03.129 I thought that the market would take a bit of a knock. 22 00:01:03.189 --> 00:01:08.511 But at the end of the day, it recovered whatever it had lost and ended up almost 23 00:01:08.511 --> 00:01:10.511 flat. 24 00:01:10.511 --> 00:01:13.492 And I think, look, the PPI was out today without getting too technical. 25 00:01:14.512 --> 00:01:21.254 And just reading commentary, the view is that it didn't add, you know, the Fed 26 00:01:21.254 --> 00:01:23.254 watches the PCE, 27 00:01:23.254 --> 00:01:24.195 which is the personal consumption expenditure. 28 00:01:24.515 --> 00:01:25.895 They use that as an indicator. 29 00:01:25.995 --> 00:01:28.656 And from the numbers that have come out. 30 00:01:31.117 --> 00:01:37.981 it looks like that's under control it's not going to go down this year but it'll 31 00:01:37.981 --> 00:01:39.981 probably level out and it won't 32 00:01:39.981 --> 00:01:44.765 be uh there won't be massive increases but bottom line to get to that is that is 33 00:01:44.765 --> 00:01:46.765 unlikely to be 34 00:01:46.765 --> 00:01:50.368 any reductions in the in interest rates but you know to cut to the chase markets 35 00:01:50.408 --> 00:01:57.131 are just brushing it aside and carrying on and and picking up and i'm just looking 36 00:01:57.131 --> 00:01:59.131 now the you know the the nasdaq is up 37 00:01:59.131 --> 00:02:00.469 all the indices up Shares, equities are going better. 38 00:02:00.489 --> 00:02:02.030 I haven't looked at the bond market yet. 39 00:02:02.430 --> 00:02:04.291 It did kick up yesterday, but I haven't seen. 40 00:02:04.371 --> 00:02:06.993 Or 51, I think, the 10-year, which is behaving itself. 41 00:02:08.273 --> 00:02:09.414 It is behaving itself. 42 00:02:09.714 --> 00:02:12.896 And that's the best way we can describe the market. 43 00:02:13.516 --> 00:02:20.440 And I think from now on through to the next end of the year, we're going to be 44 00:02:20.440 --> 00:02:22.440 driven by economic growth, 45 00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:26.163 you know, how the US economy is getting on and how companies are doing. 46 00:02:26.724 --> 00:02:27.424 So I think. 47 00:02:27.628 --> 00:02:31.251 Taking it all into consideration, all that you mentioned, we're okay. 48 00:02:31.792 --> 00:02:33.313 That's the best way I can describe it. 49 00:02:34.254 --> 00:02:36.876 No major sell-offs, no major worries. 50 00:02:37.797 --> 00:02:38.497 Okay. 51 00:02:38.497 --> 00:02:39.559 Viv, would you concur with that? 52 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:45.624 And have some specific reference here to the Magnificent Seven and also AI-related 53 00:02:45.624 --> 00:02:47.624 stocks. 54 00:02:47.624 --> 00:02:51.389 Because after the flurry of announcements, we're going to spend this and we're going 55 00:02:51.389 --> 00:02:53.389 to spend that on research and development. 56 00:02:53.389 --> 00:02:55.389 Has there been any fallout? 57 00:02:55.389 --> 00:02:57.389 Has there been a little bit of a... 58 00:02:57.389 --> 00:03:00.795 taken a back sort of stance saying wait a second how are you gonna justify spending 59 00:03:00.795 --> 00:03:02.795 all that money what's been happening 60 00:03:02.795 --> 00:03:09.360 well uh well my i do you know i do run an ai portfolio um which is not basically 61 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:11.360 looking at some of the smaller stocks is 62 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:15.083 basically investing in some of the biggest ai companies out there yeah and year to 63 00:03:15.083 --> 00:03:17.083 date we're up nine percent and 64 00:03:17.083 --> 00:03:21.867 this is basically the last six weeks so you can imagine that it's it hasn't 65 00:03:21.867 --> 00:03:23.867 exactly been negative for these things 66 00:03:23.867 --> 00:03:28.229 um so yes i mean the one thing i've come to the conclusion of looking at the latest 67 00:03:28.229 --> 00:03:30.229 like stuff coming 68 00:03:30.229 --> 00:03:31.830 through and uh i'm more convinced than ever that there is no 69 00:03:32.010 --> 00:03:38.792 wall uh with ai at the immediate future meaning that as these guys put more money 70 00:03:38.792 --> 00:03:40.792 and you're gonna get better and better basically 71 00:03:40.792 --> 00:03:45.774 products coming out uh which is going to translate into you know more and more 72 00:03:45.774 --> 00:03:47.774 activity more and more impact and therefore 73 00:03:47.774 --> 00:03:52.156 more valuable companies so uh some of the bottlenecks that we were talking about 74 00:03:52.156 --> 00:03:54.156 like last year things like for instance uh you know 75 00:03:54.156 --> 00:03:58.880 be around data there's no more human data to basically mine because we use the 76 00:03:58.880 --> 00:04:00.880 entire internet that's not a problem anymore uh spheres about 77 00:04:00.880 --> 00:04:05.784 basically um you know the expense of some of these models deep seek if anything just 78 00:04:05.784 --> 00:04:07.784 showed that you know a little bit big innovation is 79 00:04:07.784 --> 00:04:09.486 just increasing you know a pace uh these 80 00:04:09.506 --> 00:04:15.949 guys yes they did copy a lot of stuff from the americans and they it did like call 81 00:04:15.949 --> 00:04:17.949 itself you know uh gpt at some point in time 82 00:04:17.949 --> 00:04:23.013 but it obviously has you know innovation and it's coming from china And I don't 83 00:04:23.013 --> 00:04:25.013 think that these Chinese, because of the way they've structured it, 84 00:04:25.013 --> 00:04:25.513 they've basically made this all open source. 85 00:04:26.174 --> 00:04:28.494 Whatever the Chinese have invented is going to be copied by the Americans. 86 00:04:28.634 --> 00:04:32.175 As much as they want to say that they are the leaders, they are going to copy the 87 00:04:32.175 --> 00:04:34.175 Chinese innovations as well. 88 00:04:34.175 --> 00:04:35.876 So this is just going to continue at pace, I think, at least for the foreseeable 89 00:04:35.876 --> 00:04:37.876 future. 90 00:04:37.876 --> 00:04:41.558 So I have no doubt that this is basically, I have less doubt right now than I did a 91 00:04:41.558 --> 00:04:41.658 few months ago, 92 00:04:41.658 --> 00:04:45.679 that this technology is just going to be gaining this year more than we've ever 93 00:04:45.679 --> 00:04:46.039 seen. 94 00:04:46.039 --> 00:04:46.659 Very good. 95 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:47.940 Just staying with you, Viv. 96 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:50.865 There was an AI conference in Paris. 97 00:04:51.205 --> 00:04:54.872 I still don't understand what it was about, and I didn't understand what J.D. 98 00:04:55.072 --> 00:04:58.798 Vance, as they call him, the vice president, said. 99 00:04:59.359 --> 00:05:01.283 Did you get anything useful out of Paris? 100 00:05:02.723 --> 00:05:08.725 Yeah, basically he came out and said the Europeans can't threaten American 101 00:05:08.725 --> 00:05:10.725 companies or slow them down by regulation. 102 00:05:10.725 --> 00:05:13.386 What has been happening is that the Americans have been innovating and been 103 00:05:13.386 --> 00:05:15.386 producing mostly AI stuff. 104 00:05:15.386 --> 00:05:18.928 There's one company called Mistral, which is a French company that has done some 105 00:05:18.928 --> 00:05:20.928 really clever things. 106 00:05:20.928 --> 00:05:22.989 And there's no doubt that the Europeans, just like the Chinese, have a lot of 107 00:05:22.989 --> 00:05:23.089 brainpower. 108 00:05:23.089 --> 00:05:25.730 It's just that the Americans are the ones that can actually commercialize the stuff 109 00:05:25.730 --> 00:05:25.930 properly. 110 00:05:26.590 --> 00:05:29.411 And he's basically come out and said that, you know, we are going to innovate. 111 00:05:29.451 --> 00:05:30.151 And if you. 112 00:05:30.391 --> 00:05:36.855 I think you're going to stop our companies by, you know, putting things like, for 113 00:05:36.855 --> 00:05:38.855 instance, the protection of, you know, personal information stuff out there, 114 00:05:38.855 --> 00:05:40.855 all the other kind of things that the Europeans have been doing. 115 00:05:40.855 --> 00:05:42.855 We are not the Biden administration. 116 00:05:42.855 --> 00:05:44.855 We will fight you on these things. 117 00:05:44.855 --> 00:05:48.361 And which I think has been seen very positively by the AI companies, but not so 118 00:05:48.361 --> 00:05:50.361 positively by the Europeans. 119 00:05:50.361 --> 00:05:55.385 OK, David, a couple of things on the JSC today, which you can skim over if you want 120 00:05:55.385 --> 00:05:55.765 to. 121 00:05:55.765 --> 00:05:59.127 But if you've got something to say, South 32, 5.4 percent higher. 122 00:05:59.587 --> 00:06:02.408 The one that caught my eye, though, is British American Tobacco. 123 00:06:02.828 --> 00:06:08.411 It came out with its preliminary results for the year ended 31st of December last 124 00:06:08.411 --> 00:06:10.411 year, 8% down. 125 00:06:10.411 --> 00:06:12.411 Did you read them? 126 00:06:12.411 --> 00:06:14.493 You know, I don't think that's unexpected. 127 00:06:14.713 --> 00:06:19.795 I mean, I don't know what the pure numbers were. 128 00:06:19.895 --> 00:06:22.496 I went, I skimmed through, literally skimmed through them. 129 00:06:22.736 --> 00:06:23.436 Yeah. 130 00:06:23.436 --> 00:06:28.579 And, but, you know, it's, how can I say this? 131 00:06:30.039 --> 00:06:35.343 You know, really, you're in an area, even though they're coming out with these 132 00:06:35.343 --> 00:06:37.343 smokeless ones, and I hope they can, 133 00:06:37.343 --> 00:06:37.424 because I never understand what they are. 134 00:06:37.905 --> 00:06:40.266 All I know is… Well, the vapes you mean. 135 00:06:40.266 --> 00:06:40.966 You're vaping. 136 00:06:41.067 --> 00:06:43.709 No, but the other kind of slow burning and so on. 137 00:06:44.529 --> 00:06:46.851 It's an industry that nobody wants. 138 00:06:47.171 --> 00:06:52.955 You know, I know that European smoke, and I think in emerging markets they smoke, 139 00:06:52.955 --> 00:06:54.955 and maybe in China they're big smokers. 140 00:06:54.955 --> 00:06:56.955 I don't know. 141 00:06:56.955 --> 00:06:58.955 You're not a smoker. 142 00:06:58.955 --> 00:07:00.955 I know that. 143 00:07:00.955 --> 00:07:02.955 But, I mean, is this a company that is going to… 144 00:07:02.955 --> 00:07:05.145 just eventually either have to either reinvent yourself which is trying to do or 145 00:07:05.145 --> 00:07:07.145 or disappear completely uh 146 00:07:07.145 --> 00:07:12.831 viv quickly before you go back to you david sorry one factor yeah yes it's down 147 00:07:12.831 --> 00:07:13.071 eight 148 00:07:13.071 --> 00:07:18.316 percent today but yeah but basically year to date so the last month and a half 149 00:07:18.316 --> 00:07:20.316 basically it's up five percent the 150 00:07:20.316 --> 00:07:24.582 market was expecting some you know reasonably good results and in the last 151 00:07:24.582 --> 00:07:26.582 year it's still up 23 24 percent uh 152 00:07:26.582 --> 00:07:29.746 the This is a stock that people understand what the future is. 153 00:07:30.187 --> 00:07:32.649 They think that it's going to be going towards zero eventually. 154 00:07:32.749 --> 00:07:37.033 But until that point, it's giving you some solid returns. 155 00:07:37.534 --> 00:07:44.280 And the market does understand, I think, that it's declining industry, but a 156 00:07:44.280 --> 00:07:46.280 company that's going to make you money over time. 157 00:07:46.280 --> 00:07:47.023 And that's why we've seen such a huge uptick in the last year. 158 00:07:47.663 --> 00:07:50.386 I think the market is maybe expecting a bit too much from these results. 159 00:07:50.386 --> 00:07:51.667 And that's why we saw this pullback today. 160 00:07:52.207 --> 00:07:56.430 Okay, David, you don't understand what's going on, but would you say that Viv is 161 00:07:56.430 --> 00:07:56.630 correct? 162 00:07:56.670 --> 00:08:01.194 Eventually, it'll probably fizzle out or get taken over, get reinvented, whatever 163 00:08:01.194 --> 00:08:01.293 it is. 164 00:08:01.654 --> 00:08:05.877 But for now, you know, good dividends and share price performing well. 165 00:08:06.778 --> 00:08:13.483 You know, it's one of these stocks, yes, because they make cash and they make very 166 00:08:13.483 --> 00:08:15.483 high margins on the products they sell. 167 00:08:15.483 --> 00:08:19.347 But it's a business where kind of, you know, volumes are going down. 168 00:08:19.739 --> 00:08:25.303 People are not smoking like they used to smoke, or they may be, but it's certainly 169 00:08:25.303 --> 00:08:27.303 not the kind of company in the past. 170 00:08:27.303 --> 00:08:31.627 And it's also, it's a company where the authorities will keep putting pressure on 171 00:08:31.627 --> 00:08:32.047 them. 172 00:08:32.047 --> 00:08:33.789 You know, there's going to be ongoing cases. 173 00:08:34.069 --> 00:08:37.671 They might have got a little bit of a kick because in America, 174 00:08:38.412 --> 00:08:43.175 Trump has withdrawn the ban on menthol, which was a very popular cigarette. 175 00:08:43.195 --> 00:08:45.417 So I don't know, I don't follow it. 176 00:08:45.417 --> 00:08:48.679 You know, it's one of these companies that I say, I don't want to be involved in 177 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:48.758 smoking. 178 00:08:49.019 --> 00:08:55.542 and yet most of our large institutions in this country have very high exposure to 179 00:08:55.542 --> 00:08:57.542 it, together with, 180 00:08:57.542 --> 00:09:02.125 because of exactly what Viv said, you know, and I said, okay, you know, this is, 181 00:09:02.125 --> 00:09:04.125 why do you want that? 182 00:09:04.125 --> 00:09:06.867 And all it does is, I think, exposes just the few options, 183 00:09:07.407 --> 00:09:13.690 how few options we have in this country, you know what I mean, in the market, that 184 00:09:13.690 --> 00:09:15.690 you have to go for a cigarette company. 185 00:09:15.690 --> 00:09:16.511 I know Philip Morris and there are a couple around, but... 186 00:09:17.187 --> 00:09:20.770 Honestly, this is literally a dying industry. 187 00:09:22.171 --> 00:09:22.871 Okay. 188 00:09:22.871 --> 00:09:23.352 Talking about Trump. 189 00:09:23.352 --> 00:09:26.854 But I just, you know, oh, God, you know, British American banker. 190 00:09:26.994 --> 00:09:28.576 Yeah. 191 00:09:28.576 --> 00:09:30.417 Talking about Trump doing something, which he were. 192 00:09:31.378 --> 00:09:32.138 He's so petty. 193 00:09:32.999 --> 00:09:38.743 Because Biden introduced this banning of single-use plastic straws, Trump says, no, 194 00:09:38.743 --> 00:09:39.103 no. 195 00:09:39.103 --> 00:09:43.026 He says, have you ever tried to drink a drink with a paper straw? 196 00:09:43.106 --> 00:09:43.806 So he's. 197 00:09:44.267 --> 00:09:46.709 unbanning single-use plastic straws. 198 00:09:46.829 --> 00:09:50.111 I mean, this man is such a child. 199 00:09:51.652 --> 00:09:58.256 But on the other hand, and this is the interesting one, what he did last night 200 00:09:58.256 --> 00:10:00.256 was less than childish with, what's his name, 201 00:10:00.256 --> 00:10:02.256 Putin, because... 202 00:10:02.256 --> 00:10:06.436 It has been reiterated by his defense secretary that no matter what negotiations 203 00:10:06.436 --> 00:10:08.436 they go into, Zelensky, 204 00:10:08.436 --> 00:10:10.457 Trump and Putin, they will not get their land back. 205 00:10:10.597 --> 00:10:13.318 Ukraine will not get its land back that's been taken by the Russians. 206 00:10:13.619 --> 00:10:18.420 And it's not realistic to think of them going back into 207 00:10:19.481 --> 00:10:22.262 NATO. I know you watch this keenly. 208 00:10:22.582 --> 00:10:29.125 That was a very interesting submission by Trump to Putin. In other words, he's 209 00:10:29.125 --> 00:10:31.125 submissive to him. 210 00:10:31.125 --> 00:10:32.795 You mentioned a negotiation between Trump, Zelensky and Putin. 211 00:10:33.235 --> 00:10:35.557 It's a negotiation between Trump and Putin. 212 00:10:35.677 --> 00:10:36.377 Yes, exactly. 213 00:10:36.377 --> 00:10:37.158 He will inform Zelensky. 214 00:10:37.518 --> 00:10:38.298 That's the term he used. 215 00:10:38.298 --> 00:10:41.000 He said he will inform Zelensky of the outcome, basically. 216 00:10:42.181 --> 00:10:49.145 Look, I mean, from a purely, no, forgetting about the market, sorry, the 217 00:10:49.145 --> 00:10:51.145 ethical thing, which is obviously very one-sided here. 218 00:10:51.145 --> 00:10:52.947 We know who the good guy is, we know who the bad guy is, and who's in the right and 219 00:10:52.947 --> 00:10:53.027 who's in the wrong. 220 00:10:53.287 --> 00:10:55.869 And that's obviously Russia's in the wrong, Ukraine's in the right. 221 00:10:56.353 --> 00:10:59.196 From a market point of view, this is actually positive for the following 222 00:10:59.196 --> 00:10:59.335 reasons. 223 00:10:59.335 --> 00:11:02.699 Firstly, it's going to bring not just Russia's oil and stuff back into the 224 00:11:02.699 --> 00:11:02.978 market. 225 00:11:03.019 --> 00:11:09.724 It's going to mean that what Ukraine has, you know, in terms of exports and such, 226 00:11:09.724 --> 00:11:11.724 will be more easily delivered to the market right now if a deal is made. 227 00:11:11.724 --> 00:11:13.848 Ukraine is still a massive producer of agricultural products. 228 00:11:14.228 --> 00:11:17.671 That's going to be, you know, obviously bringing down the price of some of these 229 00:11:17.671 --> 00:11:17.691 things globally. 230 00:11:18.812 --> 00:11:19.512 Sorry? 231 00:11:19.512 --> 00:11:20.514 No, no, no. 232 00:11:23.136 --> 00:11:24.317 Sorry, go over. 233 00:11:24.957 --> 00:11:27.459 And that will be positive for, I think, all prices will come down. 234 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:29.960 Inflation might come down a little bit based on this year. 235 00:11:30.420 --> 00:11:34.863 And the more important thing is that if we do see supplies of energy going back to 236 00:11:34.863 --> 00:11:35.183 Europe, 237 00:11:35.243 --> 00:11:40.806 it's going to mean basically Europe is not going to be quite as greedy globally as it 238 00:11:40.806 --> 00:11:42.806 has been with regards to energy 239 00:11:43.288 --> 00:11:43.988 products. 240 00:11:43.988 --> 00:11:50.312 And that might also mean a positive effect for emerging markets because it will 241 00:11:50.312 --> 00:11:52.312 reduce the demand and therefore reduce the price of these emerging markets. 242 00:11:52.312 --> 00:11:54.312 And for the U.S. 243 00:11:54.312 --> 00:11:56.312 point of view as well. 244 00:11:56.312 --> 00:11:58.312 It's probably going to be negative for demand for their commodity. 245 00:11:58.312 --> 00:12:00.660 Obviously, they're the world's largest producer of fossil fuels, 246 00:12:00.700 --> 00:12:04.803 but it could actually turn their currency weaker, which might be positive for them 247 00:12:04.803 --> 00:12:05.063 as well. 248 00:12:05.063 --> 00:12:07.505 So overall, from a market point of view, this is the positive. 249 00:12:07.626 --> 00:12:11.869 But from a justice point of view, this is obviously a case for the bad guy one. 250 00:12:11.969 --> 00:12:16.273 I was going to ask that because, you know, what happens to Russia? 251 00:12:17.814 --> 00:12:20.236 Are relations now normalized? 252 00:12:20.496 --> 00:12:21.217 Is there a peace deal? 253 00:12:21.717 --> 00:12:26.380 with giving away half a Ukraine or a third, whatever it is, you know, to 254 00:12:26.380 --> 00:12:26.559 Russia? 255 00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:28.461 Are they now going to behave themselves? 256 00:12:28.761 --> 00:12:30.302 Are the Europeans going to trust them? 257 00:12:30.682 --> 00:12:36.866 You know, yes, gas will flow and other things will flow and it will bring down 258 00:12:36.866 --> 00:12:38.866 prices of commodities. 259 00:12:38.866 --> 00:12:39.887 But what is Trump's outcome? 260 00:12:40.007 --> 00:12:41.288 What will happen to Russia? 261 00:12:41.708 --> 00:12:43.770 Are they going to be allowed back into the Olympics? 262 00:12:43.790 --> 00:12:46.791 Are people going to treat them in the same kind of way? 263 00:12:47.151 --> 00:12:49.513 Are the oligarchs going to be let loose? 264 00:12:50.041 --> 00:12:56.625 everything freed, you know, all the assets that have been marginalized, frozen, 265 00:12:56.625 --> 00:12:56.684 sorry, 266 00:12:56.684 --> 00:12:57.525 I couldn't think of the word. 267 00:12:57.625 --> 00:12:59.746 You know, so what's going to happen? 268 00:13:00.307 --> 00:13:01.007 I don't know. 269 00:13:01.007 --> 00:13:02.848 That's an interesting point you make, actually. 270 00:13:04.089 --> 00:13:08.371 I don't think they can just say, oh, well, you know, that was just a slap on the 271 00:13:08.371 --> 00:13:10.371 wrist, and now that 272 00:13:10.371 --> 00:13:14.995 Putin and his henchmen have stopped the war, then you can have your yacht back, 273 00:13:14.995 --> 00:13:16.995 Mr. 274 00:13:16.995 --> 00:13:17.837 Abramovich, or one of your 11 yachts back, Mr. 275 00:13:17.897 --> 00:13:18.597 Abramovich. 276 00:13:18.757 --> 00:13:23.340 It's a very interesting question, David, because a lot of the money, actually, 277 00:13:23.560 --> 00:13:27.423 that they recovered has been used for Ukraine in some way. 278 00:13:28.003 --> 00:13:31.606 So they're not just going to say, oh, sorry, here's your 10 billion back. 279 00:13:32.366 --> 00:13:33.066 Yeah. 280 00:13:33.066 --> 00:13:33.907 And what about the ICC? 281 00:13:34.548 --> 00:13:35.248 You know, Mr. 282 00:13:35.288 --> 00:13:41.573 Putin is a criminal under the, according to the ICC, he can't travel anywhere. 283 00:13:41.593 --> 00:13:42.713 So what's going to happen? 284 00:13:42.753 --> 00:13:44.094 They're going to say, no, he's not a criminal. 285 00:13:44.114 --> 00:13:45.775 He can now go wherever he wants to. 286 00:13:46.136 --> 00:13:47.837 I know America is not part of it. 287 00:13:48.793 --> 00:13:55.477 but america that's not your part of it america is starting to basically sanction 288 00:13:55.477 --> 00:13:57.477 the icc because of what's happened in israel yeah so unfortunately 289 00:13:57.477 --> 00:14:02.561 unless you know europe basically has built up a a kind of a power base that is that 290 00:14:02.561 --> 00:14:04.561 is based on the 291 00:14:04.561 --> 00:14:06.923 idea that you know their regulations and their uh you know laws etc will 292 00:14:06.923 --> 00:14:13.847 be backed up to something by the americans but if you take out the american support 293 00:14:13.847 --> 00:14:15.847 for these things i don't know the europeans alone are enough to do much in 294 00:14:15.847 --> 00:14:17.847 the 295 00:14:17.847 --> 00:14:18.470 world um you know the economies are weak uh they have internal strife, 296 00:14:18.510 --> 00:14:24.473 we're seeing basically people like the AFD, Marine Le Pen, 297 00:14:25.233 --> 00:14:28.535 you know, obviously Oban in 298 00:14:29.136 --> 00:14:34.098 Hungary, they are much more pro-Putin than the current administrations everywhere. 299 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:41.903 I think that without the American support, the Russians may not have the same kind 300 00:14:41.903 --> 00:14:43.903 of, you know, soft power, 301 00:14:43.903 --> 00:14:45.903 whatever you want to call it, like the unbix, etc. 302 00:14:45.903 --> 00:14:50.469 that they had in the past, but I don't think you know 10 billion or so here are 303 00:14:50.469 --> 00:14:52.469 there for these oligarchs it's going to matter when the 304 00:14:52.469 --> 00:14:57.475 oil starts flowing again and you know now they have access to the european resources 305 00:14:57.475 --> 00:14:59.475 of the ukrainian resources as well yeah and what's people 306 00:14:59.475 --> 00:15:03.543 going to do sit back and say okay i'm going to retire And we're going to be a 307 00:15:03.543 --> 00:15:05.543 well-behaved nation from now on. 308 00:15:05.543 --> 00:15:07.543 Not going to happen. 309 00:15:07.543 --> 00:15:09.543 No, he's there for life. 310 00:15:09.543 --> 00:15:11.543 He's there for life. 311 00:15:11.543 --> 00:15:13.543 Viv mentioned Israel, David, 312 00:15:13.543 --> 00:15:16.330 and I watched a live press conference with Trump and a gaggle of reporters around his 313 00:15:16.330 --> 00:15:18.330 desk in his favourite part of the 314 00:15:18.330 --> 00:15:20.330 White House. 315 00:15:20.330 --> 00:15:21.473 And he said it was almost as though he made it up. 316 00:15:21.553 --> 00:15:23.874 He suddenly thought of this because he said, 317 00:15:24.354 --> 00:15:29.357 if they don't release all of the hostages by 12 o'clock on Saturday, then... 318 00:15:29.717 --> 00:15:31.097 that all hell is going to break loose. 319 00:15:31.277 --> 00:15:33.298 And then he thought, that sounds like quite a good idea. 320 00:15:33.458 --> 00:15:35.939 And he actually said, you know what, I think that's quite a good time. 321 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:37.519 So he'd made it up on the spot. 322 00:15:37.699 --> 00:15:42.120 He repeated it four times, and he repeated, all hell will break loose three 323 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:42.140 times. 324 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:43.381 So he got very proud. 325 00:15:43.401 --> 00:15:50.363 And then I think Netanyahu must have been listening to this, and the right wing in 326 00:15:50.363 --> 00:15:52.363 the Israeli cabinet must have said, yeah, this is good, 327 00:15:52.363 --> 00:15:54.363 we like this. 328 00:15:54.363 --> 00:15:56.363 But Netanyahu just stood. 329 00:15:56.363 --> 00:15:56.644 He didn't say all the hostages, he just said the Jewish hostages. 330 00:15:56.704 --> 00:15:58.445 So he was taken aback by this as well. 331 00:16:00.565 --> 00:16:02.046 First of all, Saturday is Shabbos. 332 00:16:02.566 --> 00:16:03.266 Exactly. 333 00:16:03.266 --> 00:16:03.947 Holy day. 334 00:16:04.247 --> 00:16:06.528 So why he chose Shabbos, I don't know. 335 00:16:06.528 --> 00:16:07.689 He could have chosen Sunday. 336 00:16:08.089 --> 00:16:08.789 But he did. 337 00:16:09.129 --> 00:16:09.829 I saw that. 338 00:16:09.829 --> 00:16:14.432 He just said, you know, if they're not by Saturday, 12 o'clock or something like 339 00:16:14.432 --> 00:16:14.811 that. 340 00:16:14.811 --> 00:16:15.172 He made it up. 341 00:16:15.172 --> 00:16:15.492 He did make it up. 342 00:16:16.012 --> 00:16:16.853 And you know what happened? 343 00:16:16.873 --> 00:16:17.713 Hamas have listened. 344 00:16:19.334 --> 00:16:21.195 They will return hostages. 345 00:16:21.695 --> 00:16:23.696 Yes, but not all of them like Trump wants. 346 00:16:24.676 --> 00:16:26.017 Just the ones that they agreed to. 347 00:16:27.097 --> 00:16:32.622 yeah that's that's another fascinating thing i mean we could talk for hours about 348 00:16:32.622 --> 00:16:34.622 the riviera of of the middle east 349 00:16:34.622 --> 00:16:41.130 but one thing you mustn't forget here is what he's done with usaid right it's 350 00:16:41.130 --> 00:16:43.130 incredibly painful to 351 00:16:43.130 --> 00:16:46.755 jordan the jordan the jordan jordanian sorry have basically built their budget 352 00:16:46.755 --> 00:16:48.755 around the 353 00:16:48.755 --> 00:16:53.320 idea they get this money from the us the fact that he's gone up and taken us out is 354 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:55.320 going to it means that they are absolutely vulnerable to anything 355 00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:00.274 he wants them to do And so the idea that the Jordanians are basically, I mean, 356 00:17:00.514 --> 00:17:02.255 have the rug pulled from under them. 357 00:17:02.395 --> 00:17:07.800 And I think that's one of the things that's going to be very important going 358 00:17:07.800 --> 00:17:08.019 forward. 359 00:17:08.120 --> 00:17:09.961 Because he wants to try and do things that move people. 360 00:17:10.021 --> 00:17:10.722 Where's he going to move them to? 361 00:17:11.222 --> 00:17:13.144 Probably not Egypt, but maybe Jordan. 362 00:17:13.724 --> 00:17:15.546 And the Jordanians, like I said, have no choice. 363 00:17:16.026 --> 00:17:19.669 He's going to put them in the Sinai Desert or the other deserts. 364 00:17:19.729 --> 00:17:21.411 It's another thing he made up. 365 00:17:21.411 --> 00:17:24.133 He said when he was talking to King Abdullah of Jordan, he said... 366 00:17:24.353 --> 00:17:28.175 Well, we've got a parcel of land in Jordan and we've got a parcel of land in Egypt. 367 00:17:28.235 --> 00:17:32.818 Now, I don't know where he finds these parcels of land, as you say, unless it's a 368 00:17:32.818 --> 00:17:34.818 desert somewhere. 369 00:17:34.818 --> 00:17:35.580 But I'm thinking, OK, you've got a parcel of land. 370 00:17:35.840 --> 00:17:36.860 There's no infrastructure. 371 00:17:36.860 --> 00:17:37.621 There's no water. 372 00:17:37.661 --> 00:17:38.401 There's no sewage. 373 00:17:38.481 --> 00:17:39.622 There's no electricity. 374 00:17:39.902 --> 00:17:40.983 There's no communications. 375 00:17:41.003 --> 00:17:41.703 There's no roads. 376 00:17:41.903 --> 00:17:42.724 There's no houses. 377 00:17:43.044 --> 00:17:44.485 So who's going to pay for this? 378 00:17:44.845 --> 00:17:46.466 I don't know. 379 00:17:46.486 --> 00:17:48.027 It's unbelievable, this man. 380 00:17:48.347 --> 00:17:49.107 You know what happened? 381 00:17:49.107 --> 00:17:51.469 That's why I say every day we've got something. 382 00:17:51.913 --> 00:17:55.014 And you try and put it all together and kind of work through it. 383 00:17:55.014 --> 00:17:55.775 It's impossible. 384 00:17:56.315 --> 00:17:58.656 And, you know, you wake up to something new every day. 385 00:17:59.756 --> 00:18:00.537 It's fascinating. 386 00:18:01.077 --> 00:18:06.299 I mean, it'll be a very sad day if he ever does leave the White House, although the 387 00:18:06.299 --> 00:18:08.299 way things are going, 388 00:18:08.299 --> 00:18:09.100 he'll probably change the Constitution so he can go for a third term. 389 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:09.921 But we'll see. 390 00:18:09.961 --> 00:18:11.401 Let's have a look at the markets now, gentlemen. 391 00:18:11.401 --> 00:18:15.183 Dollar Rand is 1851, ahead of next week's budget, of course. 392 00:18:15.203 --> 00:18:19.044 We've got the British pound against the Rand, 2315. 393 00:18:19.044 --> 00:18:20.165 And the Euro Rand is... 394 00:18:20.505 --> 00:18:26.807 19.30 euro dollar 104.30 which is virtually unchanged from last night and 395 00:18:26.807 --> 00:18:28.807 British pound is 396 00:18:28.807 --> 00:18:29.288 125.10. 397 00:18:29.288 --> 00:18:36.110 Okay gold price is doing well again it's 2,919 up 10 dollars an ounce and somebody 398 00:18:36.110 --> 00:18:38.110 told me yesterday who's the most rabid 399 00:18:38.110 --> 00:18:40.731 gold bull I've ever spoken to he said that Anglo-Gold Ashanti is up 44% 400 00:18:41.331 --> 00:18:47.493 and I thought what over the year he said no just this year it's up 44% which is 401 00:18:47.493 --> 00:18:49.493 quite a staggering move. 402 00:18:49.493 --> 00:18:54.286 and i still i still can't quite believe it the platinum is 1046 up another seven 403 00:18:54.286 --> 00:18:56.286 dollars and 404 00:18:56.286 --> 00:18:57.169 palladium is also going back into four figures 405 00:18:57.729 --> 00:19:04.615 10 11 per ounce up nearly three percent on the day now what else have i got here and 406 00:19:04.615 --> 00:19:05.095 the 407 00:19:05.095 --> 00:19:11.561 crb index i'm sure i had that up there somewhere but i noticed that the oil price 408 00:19:11.561 --> 00:19:13.561 was down 0.7 anyway uh south african 409 00:19:13.561 --> 00:19:15.945 10-year bond yield again ahead of the budget 10.82 percent 410 00:19:16.305 --> 00:19:21.387 which is a decent rise in the yield, and that's bad for the bonds, obviously. 411 00:19:21.847 --> 00:19:22.547 U.S. 412 00:19:22.547 --> 00:19:26.529 10-year is 4.55%, we'll call it. 413 00:19:27.310 --> 00:19:32.292 S&P 500 futures, they were looking a bit dodgy yesterday, currently bouncing back 414 00:19:32.292 --> 00:19:34.292 quite nicely, 415 00:19:34.292 --> 00:19:36.454 up a third of a percent to 6,093. 416 00:19:36.574 --> 00:19:37.674 And, yeah, that's it, really. 417 00:19:38.254 --> 00:19:44.157 Anything, Viv, I wanted to ask you about Tesla, because somebody said to me in an 418 00:19:44.157 --> 00:19:46.157 interview, he said, Tesla's rolling over. 419 00:19:46.157 --> 00:19:49.806 No wonder, because Mr Musk is so busy with doing other things. 420 00:19:50.066 --> 00:19:50.766 Is this true? 421 00:19:50.968 --> 00:19:52.170 Has it come off the boil a bit? 422 00:19:53.442 --> 00:19:54.142 Not just that. 423 00:19:54.142 --> 00:20:00.086 I mean, he's look, Musk is basically now Trump's, you know, kind of proxy. 424 00:20:00.626 --> 00:20:05.969 You see, Christina Friedland of Canada talk about the fact that if Trump 425 00:20:05.969 --> 00:20:07.969 basically tries to push tariffs on her, 426 00:20:07.969 --> 00:20:12.833 the first thing she's going to do is she's, by the way, was Justin Trudeau's 427 00:20:12.833 --> 00:20:14.833 second in command, effectively, in Canada. 428 00:20:14.833 --> 00:20:17.495 And she's told me she basically stabbed him in the back a few months ago, causing 429 00:20:17.495 --> 00:20:19.495 him to announce his resignation. 430 00:20:19.495 --> 00:20:22.038 But she said that what they're going to do is they're going to basically go after 431 00:20:22.038 --> 00:20:24.038 Trump proxies. 432 00:20:24.038 --> 00:20:25.320 such as tesla and this and she says she's discussed the idea of 433 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:32.484 100 tax on tesla not just in canada but also with european partners as well so 434 00:20:32.484 --> 00:20:34.484 look he's he's gotten 435 00:20:34.484 --> 00:20:40.028 a very bad reputation because of this but look it doesn't really matter that the 436 00:20:40.028 --> 00:20:42.028 price of tesla quite frankly the value fundamental value of tesla if 437 00:20:42.028 --> 00:20:45.571 all you thought was tesla was a car that sold these electric also a company sold 438 00:20:45.571 --> 00:20:47.571 these electric vehicles electric cars there's 439 00:20:47.571 --> 00:20:50.594 no way the valuation should be anywhere near this not only is tesla the most 440 00:20:50.594 --> 00:20:52.594 valuable car company in the world at the moment 441 00:20:52.594 --> 00:20:57.776 it's more valuable than every other car company virtually combined it doesn't make 442 00:20:57.776 --> 00:20:59.776 sense in the world like this the only way tesla is this valuable is if 443 00:20:59.776 --> 00:21:04.398 you believe ai is going to come about you're going to have driverless vehicles 444 00:21:04.398 --> 00:21:06.398 number one which i don't think is that difficult to assume but even with 445 00:21:06.398 --> 00:21:08.398 driverless vehicles i'm not sure it 446 00:21:08.398 --> 00:21:10.539 justifies this price you actually add in the autonomous robots as well to justify 447 00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:12.539 the current valuation of this company so 448 00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:17.641 it is a play on things that are beyond just normal car sales at the moment but 449 00:21:17.641 --> 00:21:19.641 cost of the moment is down in 450 00:21:19.641 --> 00:21:23.523 china i think 10 11 it's down massively in europe I mean, some places down, like, you 451 00:21:23.523 --> 00:21:25.523 know, more than 50% 452 00:21:25.523 --> 00:21:27.244 in parts of Europe from year on year, from January this year to January last year. 453 00:21:28.224 --> 00:21:32.286 And how much of that is due to the fact that Musk right now has a bit of a 454 00:21:32.286 --> 00:21:32.506 toxic... 455 00:21:33.406 --> 00:21:36.787 Yeah, Tesla registration numbers so far this year, 456 00:21:37.127 --> 00:21:43.189 since he sort of cozied up with the alternative for Deutschland party, they 457 00:21:43.189 --> 00:21:45.189 have plunged. 458 00:21:45.189 --> 00:21:47.189 People hate Tesla. 459 00:21:47.189 --> 00:21:49.189 So... 460 00:21:49.189 --> 00:21:51.189 Righto. 461 00:21:51.189 --> 00:21:53.189 Let's have a look at some of the shares that have moved today on the JSE. 462 00:21:53.189 --> 00:21:54.538 On the upside, South32 up 6.4% now on the close after the auction. 463 00:21:54.878 --> 00:22:00.342 Mondi up 4.75%, Alphamin up 4.25%, Richemont, David, you must love these 464 00:22:00.342 --> 00:22:02.342 luxury goods. 465 00:22:02.342 --> 00:22:04.342 I saw your LinkedIn notice. 466 00:22:04.342 --> 00:22:06.342 This is the big surprise of the year. 467 00:22:06.342 --> 00:22:07.188 3.2% up for Richemont and DRD Gold up 3.2%. 468 00:22:07.468 --> 00:22:09.070 You're itching to tell us about this. 469 00:22:09.230 --> 00:22:14.374 No, you know, there has been a surprise. 470 00:22:14.414 --> 00:22:15.575 be the year of luxury. 471 00:22:17.156 --> 00:22:24.000 When you look at the companies like Richemont, Richemont is now the second 472 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:26.000 biggest company on the JSC in terms of market cap, 473 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:28.562 exceeding the British American tobacco ABM and all the miners. 474 00:22:29.803 --> 00:22:31.124 Only BHP is bigger. 475 00:22:31.824 --> 00:22:35.867 No one thought, listen, the results haven't been outstanding. 476 00:22:36.407 --> 00:22:41.390 What has happened though, they're certainly nowhere near as bad as everybody 477 00:22:41.390 --> 00:22:43.390 had anticipated. 478 00:22:43.390 --> 00:22:47.561 So we've seen, even yesterday, Kering came out with their numbers, which were, I 479 00:22:47.561 --> 00:22:49.561 thought, very disappointing. 480 00:22:49.561 --> 00:22:51.504 But what happened, they showed a slightly improving trend in the fourth quarter. 481 00:22:51.824 --> 00:22:53.024 Shares were up 5%, 6%. 482 00:22:53.865 --> 00:22:59.708 We've got Hermes, Hermes as I would call them, coming out as well, which is another 483 00:22:59.708 --> 00:23:01.708 luxury company. 484 00:23:01.708 --> 00:23:06.452 If you look at Ferrari, the same thing, super results, incredibly good numbers 485 00:23:06.452 --> 00:23:08.452 that came out. 486 00:23:08.452 --> 00:23:09.754 So, you know, I think this is... 487 00:23:09.994 --> 00:23:13.116 taken everybody by surprise, they're solid companies. 488 00:23:13.416 --> 00:23:17.038 I think what it also shows is that they're not really impacted. 489 00:23:17.078 --> 00:23:24.002 I'm talking the upper end of the luxury market, not really impacted by economic 490 00:23:24.002 --> 00:23:26.002 conditions. 491 00:23:26.002 --> 00:23:28.024 But I will add one thing, is that even some of the lower ones, the smaller, you 492 00:23:28.024 --> 00:23:28.504 know, 493 00:23:28.504 --> 00:23:34.067 the lesser luxury goods like Burberry have done incredibly well, also showing 494 00:23:34.067 --> 00:23:36.067 turnaround. 495 00:23:36.067 --> 00:23:37.329 So, you know, for me, it's been a complete surprise. 496 00:23:38.950 --> 00:23:45.754 to see the strength that these shares have shown well a welcome surprise and a good 497 00:23:45.754 --> 00:23:47.754 call david despite the fact you had a couple of wobbly moments last 498 00:23:47.754 --> 00:23:52.798 year on the downside on the jse a british american tobacco down eight percent 499 00:23:52.798 --> 00:23:54.798 northern's down five and three quarters implants down four and a 500 00:23:54.798 --> 00:23:59.721 quarter uh despite the strength of the white metals and sassel down 4.2 percent 501 00:23:59.721 --> 00:24:01.721 closing indices please david 502 00:24:01.721 --> 00:24:03.483 we'll give that to you so we ended down 0.11 percent at 503 00:24:03.483 --> 00:24:08.326 87841 um resources marginally better You know, 504 00:24:08.486 --> 00:24:11.128 it wasn't a great day in terms of gains. 505 00:24:11.128 --> 00:24:16.452 It was mainly a negative day for the reasons that you mentioned, you know, that 506 00:24:16.452 --> 00:24:18.452 we did see, 507 00:24:18.452 --> 00:24:23.877 you know, Subanya and Cecil and British American Tobacco, all those that do move 508 00:24:23.877 --> 00:24:25.877 the needle down, 509 00:24:25.877 --> 00:24:26.098 they were under a bit of pressure. 510 00:24:26.138 --> 00:24:30.401 So generally financials also coming off the boil as well. 511 00:24:30.601 --> 00:24:37.286 We've seen that as a trend, as well as retailers, Lindsay, this year, having had 512 00:24:37.286 --> 00:24:39.286 a very good 24. 513 00:24:39.286 --> 00:24:39.468 also coming off the boil. 514 00:24:39.548 --> 00:24:44.936 So a couple of positive elements, as you mentioned, in consumer discretionary, 515 00:24:44.936 --> 00:24:46.936 which were 516 00:24:46.936 --> 00:24:49.141 Richemont and Mondi also had a pretty good day today. 517 00:24:49.221 --> 00:24:51.444 Process NASBUS, also positive. 518 00:24:52.105 --> 00:24:55.850 So the bank index was down 0.7%. 519 00:24:56.714 --> 00:25:01.277 Industrial index up 0.1%. Hardly there as well. 520 00:25:01.317 --> 00:25:03.838 Property also under a bit of pressure. 521 00:25:03.858 --> 00:25:05.299 I'll give you the value traded. 522 00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:06.059 Yes, please. 523 00:25:06.059 --> 00:25:06.900 It's been quite good recently. 524 00:25:07.820 --> 00:25:08.520 It has been. 525 00:25:08.881 --> 00:25:13.183 We're at about $25 billion today, which is above usual. 526 00:25:13.563 --> 00:25:19.467 This is a lot of trade in British American tobacco today, together with NASPERS as 527 00:25:19.467 --> 00:25:19.646 usual. 528 00:25:19.707 --> 00:25:21.888 And the banks are always among the big traders. 529 00:25:21.968 --> 00:25:23.349 Capitec, one of the favorites. 530 00:25:23.389 --> 00:25:25.410 Well, listen, Capitec's number two now. 531 00:25:25.710 --> 00:25:27.811 First-hand, can't be taken out of the bank. 532 00:25:27.811 --> 00:25:28.511 Unbelievable. 533 00:25:28.511 --> 00:25:29.272 In terms of market cap, yeah. 534 00:25:29.272 --> 00:25:29.972 What a story. 535 00:25:30.032 --> 00:25:35.874 And people were writing it off five years ago when it was down at 700 grand a share, 536 00:25:35.874 --> 00:25:37.874 600 grand a share. 537 00:25:37.874 --> 00:25:39.874 But now, look at it go. 538 00:25:39.874 --> 00:25:41.857 Gentlemen, next week, we will be talking about the budget, which is February the 539 00:25:42.817 --> 00:25:46.659 19th. So we'll get very essay-centric next week. 540 00:25:47.159 --> 00:25:48.940 Should we get our hopes up very quickly, Viv? 541 00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:53.402 Should we be looking forward to an expansive budget to get growth going? 542 00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:59.101 No, I think considering all the stuff happening in the world, 543 00:25:59.401 --> 00:26:05.725 the fact that the South African government is looking at doing things like the NHI 544 00:26:05.725 --> 00:26:07.725 and so on is absolutely insane. 545 00:26:07.725 --> 00:26:13.849 We are in, you know, some of the things that have been done, some of the moves 546 00:26:13.849 --> 00:26:15.849 that the government is doing at the moment really don't make 547 00:26:15.849 --> 00:26:17.849 sense from a long term strategic point of view. 548 00:26:17.849 --> 00:26:21.854 I don't know whether it's the fact that, you know, they try to roll the dice 549 00:26:21.854 --> 00:26:23.854 because the party, the ruling party is falling down in terms of popularity. 550 00:26:23.854 --> 00:26:27.161 And they're basically pushing through things that they think is going to boost 551 00:26:27.161 --> 00:26:29.161 their populism out there because they think they're losing things to, 552 00:26:29.161 --> 00:26:29.702 or protests to MK and to the EFF and so on. 553 00:26:30.442 --> 00:26:33.324 Or, you know, this is actually part of some longer term strategy. 554 00:26:33.744 --> 00:26:34.444 I don't know. 555 00:26:34.444 --> 00:26:40.488 But I do think that, you know, considering what the economy is, considering the 556 00:26:40.488 --> 00:26:42.488 growth rate in the country, the fact that we are going to go up 1.8% this year, 557 00:26:42.488 --> 00:26:43.730 which is not anywhere near enough, you know, to anything about our employment 558 00:26:43.730 --> 00:26:43.950 rate. 559 00:26:44.010 --> 00:26:48.672 And we want to go and do a spending action like, you know, national health. 560 00:26:49.693 --> 00:26:50.874 It doesn't make sense at all. 561 00:26:51.554 --> 00:26:52.295 Okay, well said. 562 00:26:52.515 --> 00:26:53.896 Gentlemen, thank you very much as always. 563 00:26:54.276 --> 00:26:59.179 Viv Governor is from Renswist in Johannesburg, David Shapiro from Sasson 564 00:26:59.179 --> 00:27:01.179 Securities, and that was the 5 o'clock shadow. 565 00:27:01.179 --> 00:27:07.205 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and 566 00:27:07.205 --> 00:27:09.205 various contributors and do not reflect the policy, 567 00:27:09.205 --> 00:27:10.948 position or opinion of any other agency, organisation, 568 00:27:11.288 --> 00:27:15.911 employer or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 569 00:27:16.392 --> 00:27:19.634 Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the opinions of the podcast. 570 00:27:19.674 --> 00:27:23.336 of the position of any other entity other than the speaker or the author. 571 00:27:23.616 --> 00:27:28.819 And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to 572 00:27:28.819 --> 00:27:28.919 change, 573 00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:31.660 revision and rethinking at any time. 574 00:27:31.961 --> 00:27:34.382 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.