WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.412 --> 00:00:04.556 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. 2 00:00:05.277 --> 00:00:09.180 The JSC has closed its doors for another day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock 3 00:00:09.180 --> 00:00:09.320 shadow. 4 00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:16.007 And it's the first 5 o'clock shadow of 2025 with David Shapiro from SAS 5 00:00:16.007 --> 00:00:18.007 FinSecurities and Viv Govender from 6 00:00:18.007 --> 00:00:20.007 RAND Swiss. 7 00:00:20.007 --> 00:00:22.007 And gentlemen, welcome. 8 00:00:22.007 --> 00:00:22.653 Looking forward to a very interesting 2025. 9 00:00:22.673 --> 00:00:24.154 That's the kindest way I can put it. 10 00:00:24.154 --> 00:00:25.976 And David, a very interesting day. 11 00:00:26.336 --> 00:00:30.099 in one of their favorite athletic classes, which has been under a wee bit of 12 00:00:30.099 --> 00:00:30.299 pressure. 13 00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:31.741 It's called Luxury Goods. 14 00:00:32.121 --> 00:00:36.024 And today I looked at a headline that said Richemont up 17%. 15 00:00:36.064 --> 00:00:37.586 And all the others, of course, followed. 16 00:00:37.906 --> 00:00:39.067 What on earth has gone on? 17 00:00:40.408 --> 00:00:41.609 Yes, demand. 18 00:00:42.089 --> 00:00:44.431 And I think it came in the third quarter, 19 00:00:44.491 --> 00:00:49.976 which was way above where analysts were expecting demand to be. 20 00:00:50.476 --> 00:00:51.918 It was a blowout number. 21 00:00:52.438 --> 00:00:57.541 And, Lindsay, if you analyze it, A lot of it is coming from tourism, 22 00:00:57.982 --> 00:01:02.324 tourism in Europe and tourism in the U.S., tourism wherever. 23 00:01:02.764 --> 00:01:05.066 In Japan as well, Southeast Asia. 24 00:01:05.206 --> 00:01:09.928 Yes, China was down, but not at the same rate it was down before. 25 00:01:10.388 --> 00:01:13.150 So I think it caught everybody by surprise. 26 00:01:13.250 --> 00:01:15.211 No one expected anything like this. 27 00:01:15.591 --> 00:01:19.674 And it was particularly in the jewelry area and, of course, in watches, 28 00:01:19.754 --> 00:01:23.295 which we haven't seen for a long time in. 29 00:01:24.316 --> 00:01:30.159 you know, in Richemont or in the market for very expensive watches. 30 00:01:30.499 --> 00:01:32.280 And I must say, you know, 31 00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:38.803 when I came back from the United States through UK in the middle of October, 32 00:01:39.703 --> 00:01:44.585 you know, I noticed the enormous number of people in the airports and I couldn't 33 00:01:44.585 --> 00:01:46.585 believe it. 34 00:01:46.585 --> 00:01:47.307 I might have, on our shows, we might have mentioned it, etc. 35 00:01:47.667 --> 00:01:53.318 But, you know, wherever you went, you were… You were, you know, elbowing people 36 00:01:53.318 --> 00:01:55.318 out the way and so on. 37 00:01:55.318 --> 00:01:57.381 There just seemed to be a huge number of people traveling. 38 00:01:57.921 --> 00:02:03.645 And while they were traveling, I don't know whether we could translate that into 39 00:02:03.645 --> 00:02:05.645 actually buying goods. 40 00:02:05.645 --> 00:02:07.645 And these are expensive goods. 41 00:02:07.645 --> 00:02:10.670 So I'm saying, you know, when you see Richemont, as you mentioned, I'm just 42 00:02:10.670 --> 00:02:12.670 looking now, 43 00:02:12.670 --> 00:02:12.992 it's up something in Europe. 44 00:02:13.552 --> 00:02:15.694 It's up something like 15.5%. 45 00:02:15.974 --> 00:02:17.675 I mean, that's an enormous gain. 46 00:02:17.755 --> 00:02:18.455 Massive. 47 00:02:18.455 --> 00:02:18.856 And it gives you an idea. 48 00:02:19.040 --> 00:02:20.461 It gives you 15%. 49 00:02:20.461 --> 00:02:25.064 It gives you an idea of how the markets are responding. 50 00:02:25.765 --> 00:02:28.327 LVMH in Europe is up over 7%, 51 00:02:28.407 --> 00:02:34.070 but we've seen Kering and Hermes and all these companies as well benefiting, 52 00:02:34.070 --> 00:02:36.070 saying, okay, you know, 53 00:02:36.070 --> 00:02:37.473 if they show those kind of sales, we're going to see a turnaround. 54 00:02:37.533 --> 00:02:43.797 So it is a surprise in a market where people thought, you know, we're slowing 55 00:02:43.797 --> 00:02:45.797 down. 56 00:02:45.797 --> 00:02:47.797 It's very interesting. 57 00:02:47.797 --> 00:02:49.797 It's also to do with the global economy. 58 00:02:49.797 --> 00:02:51.797 Maybe before I come to... 59 00:02:51.797 --> 00:02:53.797 go to Viv on the AI story, David. 60 00:02:53.797 --> 00:02:55.797 How do you think it compares? 61 00:02:55.797 --> 00:02:56.362 You go to an airport and you're wandering around, you've got two hours to wait 62 00:02:56.362 --> 00:02:58.362 because you have to get there early, 63 00:02:58.362 --> 00:03:01.124 and you see an LVMH shop, whichever one of their brands it is, 64 00:03:01.744 --> 00:03:06.965 and do you really go there and buy a $20,000 watch? 65 00:03:07.245 --> 00:03:12.427 What are the comparisons between, for example, the shops at an airport and say, 66 00:03:12.987 --> 00:03:16.828 a shop on Fifth Avenue in New York or a shop on Bond Street in London? 67 00:03:16.908 --> 00:03:17.608 What do you... 68 00:03:20.010 --> 00:03:22.552 First of all, you don't get duty-free in America. 69 00:03:23.133 --> 00:03:25.695 You know, you don't get it in the airports. 70 00:03:26.035 --> 00:03:29.238 You might have luxury goods there, but there's no real benefit. 71 00:03:29.558 --> 00:03:30.959 Maybe you're saving a bit of tax. 72 00:03:31.500 --> 00:03:36.724 But when I came back from Sydney, you are saving various taxes. 73 00:03:36.784 --> 00:03:41.628 You're certainly saving that, and you're saving what other taxes might be on it. 74 00:03:42.008 --> 00:03:46.032 But I don't think the difference is that great, and that's what I can't understand. 75 00:03:46.432 --> 00:03:50.574 And if you analyze the luxury businesses, 76 00:03:51.035 --> 00:03:57.878 you'll see that the amount of sales of perfumes and goods 77 00:03:57.938 --> 00:04:04.182 like that, of beauty products, of bags in Australia, the entire Sydney airport. 78 00:04:04.202 --> 00:04:05.703 There's no such thing as duty free. 79 00:04:05.843 --> 00:04:12.667 I mean, you know, when you used to go into an airport, you could buy soccer tops or 80 00:04:12.667 --> 00:04:14.667 football tops or rugby tops. 81 00:04:14.667 --> 00:04:14.768 Those shops don't exist today. 82 00:04:15.088 --> 00:04:16.229 You can buy a tracksuit. 83 00:04:16.529 --> 00:04:18.049 It's all luxury. 84 00:04:18.630 --> 00:04:20.811 And somehow, 85 00:04:21.311 --> 00:04:27.293 whether you've got guilty businessmen buying or whatever it is, but I have a 86 00:04:27.293 --> 00:04:27.653 rule. 87 00:04:27.653 --> 00:04:29.234 I never cross that threshold. 88 00:04:29.655 --> 00:04:30.975 And people say, come in. 89 00:04:30.975 --> 00:04:32.856 I say, no, I'm not coming in. 90 00:04:33.496 --> 00:04:39.299 Just because, not that I'm going to buy, but it's just crazy what the prices are. 91 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:41.560 But obviously, people are buying. 92 00:04:42.661 --> 00:04:44.702 You know, they've got the kind of money they could buy. 93 00:04:44.702 --> 00:04:45.402 People are buying. 94 00:04:45.402 --> 00:04:49.546 The global economy is growing, which we'll come to later on with our little bit of a 95 00:04:49.546 --> 00:04:51.546 macro analysis. 96 00:04:51.546 --> 00:04:54.030 But this comes from David Shapiro, who is an investor in the luxury goods sector. 97 00:04:55.171 --> 00:04:57.873 And he's done well out of it for himself and his clients. 98 00:04:58.173 --> 00:05:03.418 And I'm not speaking out of turn here, but he still wears a swatch that he bought 27 99 00:05:03.418 --> 00:05:05.418 years ago. 100 00:05:06.180 --> 00:05:07.761 Viv, let's talk about AI now. 101 00:05:07.781 --> 00:05:10.844 I thought about you several times over our break. 102 00:05:11.304 --> 00:05:16.372 And today I thought about you as well, because you sent me an article that I 103 00:05:16.372 --> 00:05:18.372 couldn't open from the New York Times. 104 00:05:18.372 --> 00:05:20.372 And you said it was quite shocking. 105 00:05:20.372 --> 00:05:22.372 Please tell us more. 106 00:05:22.372 --> 00:05:24.372 Well, it's an interesting article. 107 00:05:24.372 --> 00:05:28.258 I've been talking to you guys for a while about the different demographic changes in 108 00:05:28.258 --> 00:05:30.258 the world, as well as political changes and AI and so on. 109 00:05:30.258 --> 00:05:32.921 And Ezra Klein, who's one of the smartest guys, even if you read the New York Times, 110 00:05:32.921 --> 00:05:34.921 all the New York Times, 111 00:05:34.921 --> 00:05:39.266 certainly above the caliber of someone like a Friedman or a David Brooks or 112 00:05:39.266 --> 00:05:41.266 something like that there. 113 00:05:41.266 --> 00:05:43.709 He wrote an article, which the title was, This is the Time of Monsters. 114 00:05:44.329 --> 00:05:50.233 And he basically refers back to an Italian philosopher from the last, I think it was, 115 00:05:50.233 --> 00:05:50.533 I think it was, 116 00:05:50.533 --> 00:05:56.959 previous century before the last and we're just talking about the technological 117 00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:58.959 changes happening in the world and mentioned that you know when you have such 118 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:03.744 uncertainty then you have monsters arise and it's quite interesting because just 119 00:06:03.744 --> 00:06:05.744 after that you had world war one world war two and all those crazy things 120 00:06:05.744 --> 00:06:11.170 and uh yeah it's an interesting thing the thing that i would like to point out this 121 00:06:11.170 --> 00:06:13.170 week in ai is that the us right uh has gone out 122 00:06:13.170 --> 00:06:17.796 and made a very strong play to basically cut china and a lot of the rest of the 123 00:06:17.796 --> 00:06:19.796 world out of the ai chip market 124 00:06:19.796 --> 00:06:24.741 what they've done is they created three tiers right for ai chips but the first 125 00:06:24.741 --> 00:06:26.741 tier is the us western europe japan 126 00:06:26.741 --> 00:06:29.064 australia and they you can do whatever you want there the other tier is everything 127 00:06:29.064 --> 00:06:31.064 from yemen down 128 00:06:31.064 --> 00:06:35.728 to singapore uh basically a huge swath of the world uh and you have restricted how 129 00:06:35.728 --> 00:06:37.728 many ai chips you can get and then there's china you can get 130 00:06:37.728 --> 00:06:40.091 nothing and what's amazing about this is the following if you think ai is going to 131 00:06:40.091 --> 00:06:40.371 take say 132 00:06:40.631 --> 00:06:47.256 10 15 years to come about you know take a long time to come about what they have 133 00:06:47.256 --> 00:06:49.256 done is destroyed the us uh tech sector 134 00:06:49.256 --> 00:06:53.285 or chip sector why because they've said to everyone from india to brazil to malaysia 135 00:06:53.285 --> 00:06:55.285 indonesia like 136 00:06:55.285 --> 00:06:55.548 i said every country in the world besides northern western europe 137 00:06:55.888 --> 00:07:02.294 japan australia and the us this is entirely china's market if you want an ai 138 00:07:02.294 --> 00:07:04.294 chip you go to china right 139 00:07:04.294 --> 00:07:09.341 uh and if they basically see ai taking 10 years to happen the chinese will develop a 140 00:07:09.341 --> 00:07:11.341 chip sector that will supply the world you know 141 00:07:11.341 --> 00:07:15.830 what i mean so this is a very aggressive move on their part that i think is quite 142 00:07:15.830 --> 00:07:17.830 interesting And so what you're saying is, I remember reading a book, 143 00:07:17.830 --> 00:07:17.972 wasn't it a book called The Scramble for Africa? 144 00:07:18.032 --> 00:07:23.715 And what you're talking about is people scrambling to get a foothold into this 145 00:07:23.715 --> 00:07:25.715 particular market. 146 00:07:25.715 --> 00:07:27.657 And it's pretty chaotic, Aviv, but is it chaotic in a good way? 147 00:07:27.657 --> 00:07:33.340 I mean, is all this that you've just described briefly constructive or 148 00:07:33.340 --> 00:07:35.340 destructive for the AI industry? 149 00:07:35.340 --> 00:07:41.805 I think what this is, it shows that the US government especially thinks that AI is 150 00:07:41.805 --> 00:07:43.805 not just going to come, it's going to come really quickly. 151 00:07:43.805 --> 00:07:46.529 They're saying that AI is not going to take 10 years to come about or 20 years to 152 00:07:46.529 --> 00:07:46.868 come about. 153 00:07:46.869 --> 00:07:51.352 Because if that was the case, you're giving the Chinese market more than enough 154 00:07:51.352 --> 00:07:53.352 time to create their own system internally. 155 00:07:53.352 --> 00:07:57.317 And you're also handing them all of India, all of Brazil, South America, basically 156 00:07:57.317 --> 00:07:59.317 Africa, most of Asia, 157 00:07:59.317 --> 00:08:00.500 over to China as basically the sole supplier of these chips. 158 00:08:00.760 --> 00:08:03.362 And Vidya can't supply to these guys because they are restricted by law. 159 00:08:03.742 --> 00:08:09.467 You're taking your most productive chip maker and saying you can't supply to these 160 00:08:09.467 --> 00:08:11.467 people because you're limited. 161 00:08:11.467 --> 00:08:11.649 And that's obviously giving the market over to China. 162 00:08:12.077 --> 00:08:19.039 You don't do that unless you believe it's going to happen so quickly that the 163 00:08:19.039 --> 00:08:21.039 Chinese won't have a chance to actually catch up because they don't have enough 164 00:08:21.039 --> 00:08:23.039 time to make 165 00:08:23.039 --> 00:08:25.039 up their own chip sector. 166 00:08:25.039 --> 00:08:27.039 So that is what's really interesting about this. 167 00:08:27.039 --> 00:08:29.039 OK, we'll go from chips to the application of chips later on, Viv, 168 00:08:29.039 --> 00:08:31.342 because I noticed there was a bit of a problem with Apple over the time since 169 00:08:31.342 --> 00:08:33.342 we've last spoken. 170 00:08:33.342 --> 00:08:33.983 But anyway, I want to move straight back to David, 171 00:08:34.423 --> 00:08:41.125 because the bank's results are out this week or coming out this week from the 172 00:08:41.125 --> 00:08:43.125 United States of America, shooting the lights out. 173 00:08:43.125 --> 00:08:45.125 up, David. 174 00:08:45.125 --> 00:08:46.567 It's mainly their asset management industry because the market's going up, of 175 00:08:46.567 --> 00:08:46.807 course. 176 00:08:47.048 --> 00:08:48.348 Yeah, it is that. 177 00:08:49.429 --> 00:08:52.390 They're not making money on lending money. 178 00:08:52.490 --> 00:08:55.371 In other words, the interstate differential or anything like that. 179 00:08:55.751 --> 00:09:01.794 It's all on trading and it's all on M&A and issues around that. 180 00:09:02.194 --> 00:09:04.475 So they are very good results. 181 00:09:04.535 --> 00:09:08.197 And I mean, if you go through them without exception. 182 00:09:09.277 --> 00:09:12.639 Morgan Stanley were out today, I've still got to go through it, I think at Bank of 183 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:12.838 America. 184 00:09:12.959 --> 00:09:16.340 But likewise, they've all beaten their forecast. 185 00:09:16.340 --> 00:09:18.121 So there is a lot of activity. 186 00:09:18.441 --> 00:09:21.962 I've got to be honest, I thought that it was too early for that. 187 00:09:22.303 --> 00:09:27.605 You know, one of the things we were looking forward to was that with rates 188 00:09:27.605 --> 00:09:29.605 coming down, 189 00:09:29.605 --> 00:09:32.247 we were going to see a lot more happening in the banking world. 190 00:09:33.447 --> 00:09:38.169 But it happened earlier than we thought, and I think a lot of deals are going to 191 00:09:38.169 --> 00:09:38.469 take place. 192 00:09:38.469 --> 00:09:40.091 place is going to be a lot of consolidation. 193 00:09:40.411 --> 00:09:42.513 So these are monstrous companies as well. 194 00:09:42.513 --> 00:09:45.715 I mean, they're very, very huge and they're big results. 195 00:09:45.996 --> 00:09:50.580 What I do like about it is that the market is responding to good numbers. 196 00:09:51.781 --> 00:09:56.825 In other words, even with Richemont, as we saw, when good numbers come out, the 197 00:09:56.825 --> 00:09:58.825 market responds. 198 00:09:58.825 --> 00:10:04.391 And I find that encouraging, and especially over the results, because I 199 00:10:04.391 --> 00:10:06.391 think if there's one thing that's going to define the market this 200 00:10:06.391 --> 00:10:08.391 year, it's going to be earnings. 201 00:10:08.391 --> 00:10:13.118 you know more so than worrying about inflation or geopolitical issues and that 202 00:10:13.118 --> 00:10:15.118 and as long as businesses can come out with decent 203 00:10:15.118 --> 00:10:20.142 earnings i think that's going to be the prop that doesn't mean we're going to have 204 00:10:20.142 --> 00:10:22.142 a blowout market like last year but i mean it's going 205 00:10:22.142 --> 00:10:24.142 to give support 206 00:10:24.142 --> 00:10:28.148 and just steadily push up the uh um you know like the s p and so um i'm 207 00:10:28.308 --> 00:10:35.253 i'm encouraged by by what we're seeing in the response to um those kind of numbers 208 00:10:35.253 --> 00:10:37.253 okay macroeconomics now uh 209 00:10:37.253 --> 00:10:42.618 viv i saw something that came from the bank of america actually and it said that 210 00:10:42.618 --> 00:10:44.618 the world's bond markets uh 211 00:10:44.618 --> 00:10:48.962 develop world bonds markets are in their sixth long-term bear market since the year 212 00:10:49.482 --> 00:10:54.526 17 I don't know how many years we've been in this bear market, 213 00:10:54.886 --> 00:10:56.647 but it's extraordinary to hear that. 214 00:10:56.667 --> 00:11:02.731 If you've just come and got a job at a financial services company as trading on 215 00:11:02.731 --> 00:11:04.731 the desk, you thought last year, goodness me, 216 00:11:04.731 --> 00:11:06.731 we were in a bull bond market, but we're not. 217 00:11:06.731 --> 00:11:10.877 In September, I think last year, the US 10-year was trading at something like 3.6% 218 00:11:10.877 --> 00:11:12.877 yield. 219 00:11:12.877 --> 00:11:14.599 Now it's, well, a few days ago, it was close to 5%. 220 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:18.582 Now back to 4.68% or something like that. 221 00:11:18.842 --> 00:11:19.623 But the point is... 222 00:11:19.943 --> 00:11:20.643 The U.S. 223 00:11:20.643 --> 00:11:21.544 economy is still doing well. 224 00:11:21.684 --> 00:11:22.805 Jobs are being created. 225 00:11:23.065 --> 00:11:27.647 The inflation number from yesterday, I think it was, came in at 2.9 percent. 226 00:11:27.647 --> 00:11:30.449 And people seem to be delighted with that, Viv. 227 00:11:30.469 --> 00:11:32.010 Do you think the world is doing well? 228 00:11:32.570 --> 00:11:38.093 Do you think China is going to do well in order to embellish the U.S.'s performance? 229 00:11:38.373 --> 00:11:42.475 And do you think, Viv, that people are richer and that's why they're buying 230 00:11:42.475 --> 00:11:44.475 watches at Sydney Airport? 231 00:11:44.475 --> 00:11:48.999 I think also people are, I mean, not to bring it back to politics here, but I 232 00:11:48.999 --> 00:11:50.999 mean, look at the banking, you know. 233 00:11:50.999 --> 00:11:52.999 announcements yesterday. 234 00:11:52.999 --> 00:11:54.999 These guys are making record profits. 235 00:11:54.999 --> 00:11:56.999 And what are they talking about? 236 00:11:56.999 --> 00:11:57.385 Lower regulation and lower taxes because the Trump administration is boosting 237 00:11:57.385 --> 00:11:59.385 confidence. 238 00:11:59.385 --> 00:12:04.470 Okay, so you're already seeing like Mark Zuckerberg going out and basically, if you 239 00:12:04.470 --> 00:12:06.470 watch him, the Joe Rogan podcast, 240 00:12:06.470 --> 00:12:08.470 totally going crazy about how wonderful Trump is. 241 00:12:08.470 --> 00:12:11.275 And William has a statement on that thing about how horrible Biden is and how good 242 00:12:11.275 --> 00:12:11.354 Trump is. 243 00:12:12.096 --> 00:12:16.719 Amazon put a $40 million package together for a documentary on Melania Trump. 244 00:12:16.975 --> 00:12:18.817 I don't know how interesting Melania Trump is, but she's not... 245 00:12:19.097 --> 00:12:20.158 She's not interesting at all. 246 00:12:20.498 --> 00:12:21.259 Hey, hold on a sec. 247 00:12:21.259 --> 00:12:24.362 $40 million. 248 00:12:24.362 --> 00:12:25.703 It's probably the most expensive documentary. 249 00:12:25.703 --> 00:12:27.685 It's like David Attenborough's whole series of stuff. 250 00:12:27.685 --> 00:12:30.287 It probably doesn't cost $40 million. 251 00:12:30.607 --> 00:12:34.611 So I'm saying to you that corporate America is seeing regulations falling. 252 00:12:34.671 --> 00:12:36.432 It's seeing taxes coming down. 253 00:12:36.793 --> 00:12:38.775 And they are getting basically all in. 254 00:12:38.775 --> 00:12:40.596 I mean, and here's another interesting fact. 255 00:12:40.596 --> 00:12:43.038 You know, TikTok was banned, right, in the US? 256 00:12:43.971 --> 00:12:46.412 Guess who's going to be at the Trump inauguration? 257 00:12:46.912 --> 00:12:47.612 The TikTok CEO. 258 00:12:47.612 --> 00:12:50.534 It's because he's paid a million dollars to be there. 259 00:12:50.554 --> 00:12:51.274 That's why, Viv. 260 00:12:51.554 --> 00:12:55.456 Not because he's going to be pardoned, or rather TikTok is going to be unbanned. 261 00:12:55.576 --> 00:12:59.738 Oh, I don't know if TikTok won't be unbanned because Trump is pro-TikTok. 262 00:13:00.098 --> 00:13:05.940 If you listen to him talk about it, because obviously they're one of the 263 00:13:05.940 --> 00:13:07.940 places that allowed him to talk when he was banned on Facebook and other places. 264 00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:10.322 Well, you must have read Biden's speech yesterday. 265 00:13:10.442 --> 00:13:12.123 I don't know if you're going to read it. 266 00:13:12.123 --> 00:13:12.823 I did, I did. 267 00:13:12.823 --> 00:13:15.129 Did you get through it on New York Times? 268 00:13:15.429 --> 00:13:16.510 It's covered there as well. 269 00:13:16.830 --> 00:13:18.732 He speaks about the oligarchs. 270 00:13:18.732 --> 00:13:19.432 Yes. 271 00:13:19.432 --> 00:13:20.573 The tech industrial complex. 272 00:13:21.094 --> 00:13:21.794 Yeah. 273 00:13:21.794 --> 00:13:22.815 The tech industrial complex. 274 00:13:23.376 --> 00:13:26.078 And look, I mean, the thing is that he's talking about it too late. 275 00:13:26.078 --> 00:13:27.699 He should have been talking about it two, three years ago. 276 00:13:27.699 --> 00:13:30.481 But the problem is at that point in time, they were on his side. 277 00:13:30.962 --> 00:13:32.263 You know, Facebook was on his side. 278 00:13:32.643 --> 00:13:39.349 But he was always realizing when it comes to these things that you can never put any 279 00:13:39.349 --> 00:13:41.349 of these restrictions in place or support these industries too much because 280 00:13:41.349 --> 00:13:42.231 one day they'll be on your side, the other day they'll be against you. 281 00:13:42.563 --> 00:13:44.944 You've got to plan as if you want to be against them, you know what I mean? 282 00:13:45.324 --> 00:13:47.805 And that is the mistake that I think the Democrats have made here. 283 00:13:48.145 --> 00:13:54.648 And what I'm talking about with regards to all of the stuff is that I do think that 284 00:13:54.648 --> 00:13:56.648 we are going to see a very volatile here in the market. 285 00:13:56.648 --> 00:13:57.389 But it's possible that we could see things like China do really well. 286 00:13:58.089 --> 00:14:04.532 If Trump comes in and he basically reverses some of these Biden 287 00:14:04.532 --> 00:14:06.532 administration things, you could see there is a possibility you see China take off. 288 00:14:06.532 --> 00:14:10.575 If he reverses the TikTok ban and the Tencent listing as a military company. 289 00:14:11.795 --> 00:14:14.037 China could do really well, surprisingly. 290 00:14:14.437 --> 00:14:16.659 And this is something that people are underestimating. 291 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:25.205 David, just before you go on, and before you lose your thread, when Viv was talking 292 00:14:25.205 --> 00:14:27.205 about our dear First Lady, soon-to-be First Lady, 293 00:14:27.205 --> 00:14:31.089 Melania Trump, the immigrant, why did you intervene there? 294 00:14:31.089 --> 00:14:32.250 You wanted to say something. 295 00:14:33.491 --> 00:14:39.535 Well, if you know her history, you'd like to see a documentary about her, you know, 296 00:14:39.535 --> 00:14:41.535 a fully explicit one as well. 297 00:14:41.535 --> 00:14:42.040 I mean, understanding where she came from. 298 00:14:42.140 --> 00:14:45.883 She came from the old Yugoslavia, didn't she? 299 00:14:46.623 --> 00:14:47.323 Oh, no. 300 00:14:47.324 --> 00:14:48.605 She had a very beautiful mother. 301 00:14:48.845 --> 00:14:50.126 She wasn't, yeah, I know. 302 00:14:50.206 --> 00:14:51.447 She was beautiful herself. 303 00:14:51.907 --> 00:14:56.850 She wasn't exactly came out of a monastery or whatever it is. 304 00:14:57.891 --> 00:14:58.591 Anyway. 305 00:14:58.591 --> 00:15:00.953 So what you're saying is that you will be watching this documentary? 306 00:15:01.573 --> 00:15:02.694 Oh, yes. 307 00:15:05.276 --> 00:15:06.277 It's so predictable. 308 00:15:08.239 --> 00:15:14.143 The other thing is, just on the Biden speech, which you both read, and I've sort 309 00:15:14.143 --> 00:15:16.143 of watched snippets of it, 310 00:15:17.286 --> 00:15:22.851 his concerns over the new oligarchy in the United States was compared to a speech, I 311 00:15:22.851 --> 00:15:24.851 think it was Eisenhower, 312 00:15:24.851 --> 00:15:25.313 am I getting my memory right? 313 00:15:25.313 --> 00:15:31.358 Eisenhower made in 1961. And he was saying that either he lifted it from there, 314 00:15:31.678 --> 00:15:32.399 or it's just a... 315 00:15:32.659 --> 00:15:38.865 a convenient coincidence what is what are your thoughts on that one both of you I 316 00:15:38.865 --> 00:15:40.865 didn't read Eisenhower's speech. 317 00:15:40.865 --> 00:15:42.865 I was a little too young at that stage. 318 00:15:42.865 --> 00:15:44.865 But 319 00:15:44.865 --> 00:15:45.767 I think the point he makes is right. 320 00:15:46.367 --> 00:15:51.309 And what he's referring to is the whole, what do you call them, 321 00:15:53.169 --> 00:15:57.651 the PayPal mafia or Peter Thiel and all those people, 322 00:15:57.791 --> 00:16:01.892 all those ultra-rich people who are muscling their way into government. 323 00:16:02.388 --> 00:16:07.410 And he's saying it's not for the good of all the people, it's for the good of 324 00:16:07.410 --> 00:16:09.410 themselves and self-enrichment. 325 00:16:09.410 --> 00:16:11.410 And I think that's the whole message, 326 00:16:11.410 --> 00:16:15.213 is that the people who are running it are not really running it for the good of the 327 00:16:15.213 --> 00:16:15.393 country, 328 00:16:15.694 --> 00:16:17.574 but more with a lot of self-interest. 329 00:16:19.075 --> 00:16:24.337 Yes, with one straw that's stirring that drink, and that straw is Donald J. 330 00:16:24.998 --> 00:16:25.698 Trump. 331 00:16:25.698 --> 00:16:27.999 And I'd love to know what's going on there. 332 00:16:27.999 --> 00:16:30.460 Okay, it's a million dollars for a seat at the inauguration. 333 00:16:30.780 --> 00:16:36.784 But there must be so much more stuff going on behind the scenes. 334 00:16:37.045 --> 00:16:37.745 I think you're wrong. 335 00:16:37.745 --> 00:16:43.829 Look, I mean, Marc Andreessen, the guy that did Netscape, is interviewing 336 00:16:43.829 --> 00:16:45.829 candidates for the Trump administration. 337 00:16:45.829 --> 00:16:48.873 So he's actually basically the hiring manager for the Trump administration. 338 00:16:49.473 --> 00:16:50.174 Marc Andreessen, okay? 339 00:16:51.175 --> 00:16:51.955 Peter Thiel, okay? 340 00:16:52.376 --> 00:16:54.497 We're talking about, obviously, we know J.D. 341 00:16:54.577 --> 00:16:57.199 Vance was a Peter Thiel employee, vice president. 342 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:04.681 Basically, One of the biggest moves, my AI portfolio, the biggest return I had last 343 00:17:04.681 --> 00:17:06.681 year was in Palantir, 344 00:17:06.681 --> 00:17:08.681 founded by Peter Thiel. 345 00:17:08.681 --> 00:17:10.681 Okay, 200 plus percent up for the year. 346 00:17:10.681 --> 00:17:15.550 Okay, obviously, you know, but Elon Musk, obviously, you know about Chikoros, you 347 00:17:15.550 --> 00:17:17.550 know, Ramaswamy as well. 348 00:17:17.550 --> 00:17:19.550 He's also a billionaire. 349 00:17:19.550 --> 00:17:21.550 He's like, not as much as a billionaire as Musk, but a billionaire, still a 350 00:17:21.550 --> 00:17:23.550 billionaire. 351 00:17:23.550 --> 00:17:25.550 And of course, we're talking about, you know, like this Amazon thing. 352 00:17:25.550 --> 00:17:25.699 It's obviously bribery. 353 00:17:25.719 --> 00:17:26.860 I mean, you can't be... 354 00:17:27.020 --> 00:17:27.720 two ways about it. 355 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:34.065 You may argue that she's going to have an interesting documentary and whatever, but 356 00:17:34.065 --> 00:17:36.065 $40 million for a documentary about a first lady, 357 00:17:36.065 --> 00:17:38.065 that is just bribery. 358 00:17:38.065 --> 00:17:40.065 It's no other word for it. 359 00:17:40.065 --> 00:17:42.065 Okay. 360 00:17:42.065 --> 00:17:43.672 And basically what Zuckerberg is doing, what's the Zuckerberg interview with 361 00:17:44.413 --> 00:17:49.016 Rogan? And he comes across as being like, almost like he had a gun to his head 362 00:17:49.016 --> 00:17:51.016 because of Biden. 363 00:17:51.016 --> 00:17:53.600 And Biden was this monster that was basically shouting at him on the phone and 364 00:17:53.600 --> 00:17:53.619 that kind of stuff. 365 00:17:54.368 --> 00:17:59.052 He talks about Biden officials basically charging the phone and threatening him 366 00:17:59.052 --> 00:18:01.052 with prison and whatnot, 367 00:18:01.052 --> 00:18:01.493 and how he's almost free for the first time under Trump. 368 00:18:01.954 --> 00:18:03.615 And this kind of move is... 369 00:18:05.596 --> 00:18:11.360 I thought they'd be more favorable towards Trump than Biden because of a number of 370 00:18:11.360 --> 00:18:13.360 factors, but what I've seen over the last couple of weeks has been amazing. 371 00:18:13.360 --> 00:18:16.964 It is coming down to almost like I mentioned, the tech industrial complex, 372 00:18:17.204 --> 00:18:21.127 where it's almost a group of oligarchs have gotten together and said, we can 373 00:18:21.127 --> 00:18:23.127 control the world now. 374 00:18:23.127 --> 00:18:28.390 But there's this you know what's interesting and and if you look at 375 00:18:28.390 --> 00:18:30.390 zuckerberg zuckerberg was it uh by 376 00:18:30.390 --> 00:18:33.672 by nature he would have been a democrat he would have been brought up as a democrat 377 00:18:33.672 --> 00:18:35.672 you know understanding 378 00:18:35.672 --> 00:18:36.614 his background and and what is interesting 379 00:18:36.654 --> 00:18:43.516 what his attitude does is almost depict what's happened to the democrat you know 380 00:18:43.516 --> 00:18:45.516 democratic party 381 00:18:45.516 --> 00:18:49.179 how it's changed its attitudes because it was always uh 382 00:18:49.179 --> 00:18:52.901 it was a blue collar company you know it was the blue collar party, 383 00:18:55.043 --> 00:18:59.166 really favoring kind of people like Zuckerberg, et cetera. 384 00:18:59.186 --> 00:19:01.048 You know, just their general upbringing. 385 00:19:01.048 --> 00:19:07.574 The fact that he's gone and they put pressure on him says a lot for people's 386 00:19:07.574 --> 00:19:09.574 views towards the Democrats. 387 00:19:09.574 --> 00:19:14.681 You know, how this neo-left or these left liberals started to take over and put kind 388 00:19:14.681 --> 00:19:16.681 of pressure or tie and 389 00:19:16.681 --> 00:19:18.264 enforce their, you know, their policies. 390 00:19:18.788 --> 00:19:24.971 And I think it had a lot to do with, you know, it had a lot to do with the demise 391 00:19:24.971 --> 00:19:26.971 or the fall of the Democrats. 392 00:19:26.971 --> 00:19:30.394 So when I'm looking at more from a social point of view, he would have been brought 393 00:19:30.394 --> 00:19:32.394 up a Democrat. 394 00:19:32.394 --> 00:19:35.477 You know, now that he's saying, oh, thank goodness we got rid of them, I think says 395 00:19:35.477 --> 00:19:35.677 a lot. 396 00:19:36.278 --> 00:19:37.318 Yeah, it does. 397 00:19:37.418 --> 00:19:44.002 And the other thing that says a lot is the grilling of the Trump nominees for his 398 00:19:44.002 --> 00:19:46.002 cabinet, for want of a better word. 399 00:19:46.002 --> 00:19:47.544 And I saw I watched with great deal of fascination. 400 00:19:48.056 --> 00:19:49.698 Morbid fascination of 401 00:19:50.098 --> 00:19:56.904 Pete Hegseth getting grilled by people and yet people were slapping him on the back 402 00:19:56.904 --> 00:19:58.904 and there was lots of 403 00:19:58.904 --> 00:20:00.387 fist pumping and smiles afterwards. 404 00:20:01.128 --> 00:20:02.048 He's a disaster. 405 00:20:02.769 --> 00:20:06.192 And also Rav Aswami, who you just mentioned, Viv, 406 00:20:06.432 --> 00:20:10.316 they say he's the other one that will get a grilling but will still get through. 407 00:20:10.696 --> 00:20:12.978 And who's that other woman, Tulsi, what's her name? 408 00:20:13.038 --> 00:20:13.839 Yavit. 409 00:20:14.339 --> 00:20:15.039 Yes. 410 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.443 Vivek Ramaswamy won't be grilled because he's not going to be in a position that 411 00:20:19.443 --> 00:20:19.483 has a grilling. 412 00:20:19.904 --> 00:20:20.644 He's like Elon Musk. 413 00:20:20.644 --> 00:20:26.049 He's appointed to something that that's what people were mistaken when they saw 414 00:20:26.049 --> 00:20:28.049 Ramaswamy and Musk being given these positions at Doge. 415 00:20:28.049 --> 00:20:30.049 They thought, oh, this has no power. 416 00:20:30.049 --> 00:20:34.215 In reality, it is much more powerful, do you think, because it doesn't have that 417 00:20:34.215 --> 00:20:36.215 same grilling that these guys go through. 418 00:20:36.215 --> 00:20:38.359 Gabbard will be grilled because of links apparently to Russia. 419 00:20:39.740 --> 00:20:40.661 Rubio is already through. 420 00:20:40.981 --> 00:20:44.444 The other pawn is Bondi, who is the AG that's been replaced. 421 00:20:45.444 --> 00:20:51.906 that's the place that Matt Gaetz I saw her yesterday as well she did okay I think but 422 00:20:51.906 --> 00:20:52.266 the thing 423 00:20:52.266 --> 00:20:58.427 with Pete Hexer that you don't realise is that he's playing to the MAGA base or 424 00:20:58.427 --> 00:21:00.427 whatever you want to call it 425 00:21:00.427 --> 00:21:04.169 and these guys are much they like to see a tough guy what is Trump? 426 00:21:04.369 --> 00:21:09.350 Trump is basically a tough guy with a veneer of toughness that's what they how 427 00:21:09.350 --> 00:21:09.430 is Hexer 428 00:21:09.850 --> 00:21:11.912 not playing exactly the same role Trump is playing. 429 00:21:12.112 --> 00:21:17.836 In fact, you would probably see he has higher competence levels than Trump 430 00:21:17.836 --> 00:21:19.836 because he went to, I think, a couple of high school schools. 431 00:21:19.836 --> 00:21:21.836 Not difficult. 432 00:21:21.836 --> 00:21:23.836 He's served multiple years. 433 00:21:23.836 --> 00:21:25.836 But he's served in the military for several years. 434 00:21:25.836 --> 00:21:26.442 He's got, in terms of like pure ability, in terms of like whatever, he's got more 435 00:21:26.442 --> 00:21:26.562 ability than Trump. 436 00:21:26.562 --> 00:21:31.886 He's qualified to be like the Virginia is, but he's not going to be kicked out 437 00:21:31.886 --> 00:21:33.886 because of his inability. 438 00:21:33.886 --> 00:21:37.390 He's showing the kind of, how can I say, almost the macho thing that Trump is 439 00:21:37.390 --> 00:21:39.390 pushing forward with. 440 00:21:39.390 --> 00:21:40.487 That's why they're supporting it because that's what they're paying for. 441 00:21:40.487 --> 00:21:41.947 They're not paying for ability. 442 00:21:42.007 --> 00:21:44.668 They're paying for this much of posturing that is so. 443 00:21:45.608 --> 00:21:46.308 Yeah. 444 00:21:46.308 --> 00:21:50.690 Okay, gentlemen, let's get back to reality now and have a look at some market prices. 445 00:21:50.690 --> 00:21:53.650 We've got the dollar round at 1884. 446 00:21:53.650 --> 00:21:56.151 We've got the British pound against the round at 2302. 447 00:21:56.231 --> 00:21:59.892 And the euro round is currently trading at 1940. 448 00:21:59.892 --> 00:22:02.793 Euro dollar, just below 103. 449 00:22:03.153 --> 00:22:04.273 When will it break parity? 450 00:22:04.373 --> 00:22:05.334 Will it break parity? 451 00:22:05.414 --> 00:22:06.714 Will it go into double figures? 452 00:22:07.294 --> 00:22:14.140 rather than the above one who knows but it's been a hell of a ride the dollar is a 453 00:22:14.140 --> 00:22:16.140 bull market let's face it british 454 00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:21.046 pound against the us dollar 122 18 and the woes of the uk with rachel reeves who's 455 00:22:21.046 --> 00:22:23.046 hopelessly out of her depth as chancellor of the 456 00:22:23.046 --> 00:22:24.529 exchequer has hit the pound horribly okay 457 00:22:24.989 --> 00:22:31.835 other things commodities gold price 27 15 it's up a couple of dollars nothing there 458 00:22:31.835 --> 00:22:33.835 platinum mired below a thousand 459 00:22:33.835 --> 00:22:34.738 nine fifty but it's up 18 today let's give it some credit 460 00:22:35.078 --> 00:22:41.744 and palladium is down seven to nine fifty eight dollars per ounce other commodities 461 00:22:41.744 --> 00:22:43.744 now this is an interesting one 462 00:22:43.744 --> 00:22:45.744 i've just looked at a 463 00:22:45.744 --> 00:22:50.150 25-year graph of the crb index the last time it was here where it is now which is 464 00:22:50.170 --> 00:22:57.056 376.04 an index level that is was in september 2008 uh so the 465 00:22:57.236 --> 00:23:03.942 it's it's gone from and i'm fiddling around with my senior downtrend clb this 466 00:23:03.942 --> 00:23:04.201 is a 467 00:23:04.322 --> 00:23:05.342 This is a huge uptrend. 468 00:23:05.422 --> 00:23:08.843 April 2020, it was at 126 point. 469 00:23:09.183 --> 00:23:09.883 What? 470 00:23:09.883 --> 00:23:11.064 It was 125, let's call it. 471 00:23:11.064 --> 00:23:12.224 It's now 376. 472 00:23:12.604 --> 00:23:13.825 Commodities are on the up. 473 00:23:13.845 --> 00:23:14.665 And we know why. 474 00:23:14.745 --> 00:23:18.146 It's the energy complex, which is hugely influential in the index. 475 00:23:18.526 --> 00:23:20.126 Brent crude oil, $81.33. 476 00:23:21.387 --> 00:23:24.828 And West Texas crude, $79.30. 477 00:23:25.328 --> 00:23:27.208 They're both down today nearly a percent. 478 00:23:27.589 --> 00:23:30.229 But these are really big moves to the upside. 479 00:23:30.389 --> 00:23:32.090 And other things, copper up 1.1%. 480 00:23:32.090 --> 00:23:32.790 100%. 481 00:23:33.190 --> 00:23:35.532 and steel up to an half percent and so on. 482 00:23:35.892 --> 00:23:36.753 I don't know what this is. 483 00:23:36.813 --> 00:23:40.056 Is it the US recovery or rather continued US boom? 484 00:23:40.456 --> 00:23:43.478 Is it the perception that China is going to do well? 485 00:23:43.538 --> 00:23:48.842 Because obviously that's inextricably linked with the fortunes of commodities. 486 00:23:49.083 --> 00:23:50.224 But nonetheless, there it is. 487 00:23:50.324 --> 00:23:55.307 Bitcoin is 98,000, we'll call it, down a little bit. 488 00:23:55.968 --> 00:23:58.350 South African 10-year bond, what is that doing? 489 00:23:58.826 --> 00:24:02.128 won't let me in so i'm not going to do let's go straight to the u.s 10-year 490 00:24:02.508 --> 00:24:08.951 4.66 we'll call it i was just going to get try and go back yes the south african 491 00:24:08.951 --> 00:24:10.951 10-year bond 492 00:24:10.951 --> 00:24:15.835 9.40 percent s&p 500 futures doing very little after a really good day best day 493 00:24:15.835 --> 00:24:17.835 for two months 494 00:24:17.835 --> 00:24:18.477 yesterday it's down slightly to 5 495 00:24:18.857 --> 00:24:24.500 980 which is the futures price and uh yeah david anything on the jsc today 496 00:24:25.721 --> 00:24:30.623 well i mean apart from regional yeah you Funny enough, that's all it is. 497 00:24:30.783 --> 00:24:35.584 Because if you look at, say, the top 25 capitalized stocks, I'll give you some 498 00:24:35.584 --> 00:24:35.964 other. 499 00:24:36.364 --> 00:24:40.826 The only one that really performed was Richemont up 14.85. 500 00:24:41.126 --> 00:24:45.387 And that has an enormous influence on the underlying index. 501 00:24:45.787 --> 00:24:46.507 Take that away. 502 00:24:46.688 --> 00:24:48.548 It was actually negative. 503 00:24:48.848 --> 00:24:53.350 We still saw, I'm just looking at some of the banks, they were negative. 504 00:24:53.650 --> 00:24:54.790 NASPAS was down. 505 00:24:55.158 --> 00:24:58.680 And the RAND was steady, so it didn't have anything like that. 506 00:24:58.700 --> 00:25:01.141 You know, ABM went down a bit, BHP. 507 00:25:01.302 --> 00:25:03.523 So all of those in negative territory. 508 00:25:04.143 --> 00:25:08.245 But of course, Richemont dictated where the index would be. 509 00:25:08.285 --> 00:25:13.448 It has a big, big weighting on, big influence on where the index closes. 510 00:25:13.508 --> 00:25:17.871 So, you know, just before that, we ended up 0.17%. 511 00:25:17.911 --> 00:25:23.254 But I think a lot of that had to do with, you know, with Richemont's contribution. 512 00:25:23.554 --> 00:25:24.835 It's a very unusual move. 513 00:25:24.875 --> 00:25:26.596 And I don't know. 514 00:25:26.616 --> 00:25:28.518 I don't know how you approach it as an investor. 515 00:25:29.478 --> 00:25:36.043 It seems to me that 17 percent for such a big company smacks of either thin 516 00:25:36.043 --> 00:25:38.043 conditions or short 517 00:25:38.043 --> 00:25:40.043 covering or both. 518 00:25:40.043 --> 00:25:42.043 Yeah. 519 00:25:42.043 --> 00:25:44.669 You know, this was an area where people were very when I say short, short in 520 00:25:44.669 --> 00:25:44.708 attitude, 521 00:25:44.989 --> 00:25:47.391 whether they actually put positions on the market. 522 00:25:47.451 --> 00:25:48.151 I'm not sure. 523 00:25:48.652 --> 00:25:50.553 But generally they were negative. 524 00:25:50.753 --> 00:25:51.734 You know, they did make. 525 00:25:52.815 --> 00:25:59.243 They thought with Chinese consumerism under pressure, the economy under 526 00:25:59.243 --> 00:25:59.442 pressure, 527 00:25:59.442 --> 00:26:02.046 that's where the big demand for commodities came. 528 00:26:02.607 --> 00:26:05.110 And so it was a total surprise to see. 529 00:26:05.566 --> 00:26:12.391 you know the growth outside of china and how big that was so i'm sure there were 530 00:26:12.391 --> 00:26:14.391 people saying hold on a sec you know if we are short let's 531 00:26:14.391 --> 00:26:19.036 cover it we'll just watch what happens so uh it it we'll see if it holds you know if 532 00:26:19.036 --> 00:26:19.095 if these 533 00:26:19.096 --> 00:26:25.440 prices uh are sustainable as well which will give you a clue of where the market 534 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.440 was positioned of 535 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:32.285 the shares that will interest us on the upside on the jse today the aforementioned 536 00:26:32.285 --> 00:26:34.285 richmond about 14 and a half percent on the close 537 00:26:34.285 --> 00:26:34.667 angler gold ashanti Up 3.2%. 538 00:26:34.687 --> 00:26:37.769 On the downside, Implats down 4.6%. 539 00:26:37.809 --> 00:26:41.150 They're having a terrible, terrible time, these white metal producers. 540 00:26:41.511 --> 00:26:42.972 Sappy down 4.5%. 541 00:26:43.112 --> 00:26:45.173 Anglo-American Platinum down two and two-thirds. 542 00:26:45.653 --> 00:26:50.596 Sassl down 2% despite the booming oil market and the weaker rent. 543 00:26:51.236 --> 00:26:55.779 And yeah, Fortress B, the property company, down 1.9%. 544 00:26:56.259 --> 00:27:00.662 Outside of your AI obsession, Viv, anything else that you're looking at? 545 00:27:02.442 --> 00:27:07.284 I'm interested in what's been happening around Jekyll and Cecil here. 546 00:27:07.284 --> 00:27:10.926 I mean, it's had a very good run until just recently. 547 00:27:10.966 --> 00:27:14.007 I mean, obviously last year was a disaster for it. 548 00:27:14.047 --> 00:27:16.768 But, you know, the last few months, Cecil's come back quite nicely. 549 00:27:17.348 --> 00:27:20.249 You know, it's the last few weeks, in fact, not the last few months, last few 550 00:27:20.249 --> 00:27:20.589 weeks. 551 00:27:20.650 --> 00:27:23.931 And so, yeah, I would expect a bit of a pullback, you know, after a run like that. 552 00:27:24.471 --> 00:27:31.274 But I do think that, you know, the moment, it's a surprising thing, like you said, 553 00:27:31.274 --> 00:27:33.274 considering the fact that oil prices are recovering as they are, the round is as 554 00:27:33.274 --> 00:27:35.274 weak as it is. 555 00:27:35.274 --> 00:27:37.274 and this company is significantly lower than it was a year ago. 556 00:27:37.274 --> 00:27:41.380 David, give us the closing JSC indices, if you would, and also the all-important 557 00:27:41.380 --> 00:27:43.380 trading volume, trading value. 558 00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:43.641 I'll give you the value straight away. 559 00:27:44.361 --> 00:27:49.384 We traded around about just under 20 billion, and it was Richmond that 560 00:27:49.384 --> 00:27:51.384 dominated, 561 00:27:51.384 --> 00:27:55.828 making up 12.5% of the market, trading in about over 2 billion rand. 562 00:27:56.768 --> 00:27:59.650 Then came NASPERS, which every day is... 563 00:28:00.130 --> 00:28:06.895 at the top 1.3 billion traded seven and a half percent so a reasonable day uh 564 00:28:06.895 --> 00:28:08.895 nothing 565 00:28:08.895 --> 00:28:14.020 special we're starting to see this uh you know getting back to these kind of volumes 566 00:28:14.020 --> 00:28:16.020 which is still too low for us to make 567 00:28:16.020 --> 00:28:20.904 a living but they all share up 0.17 percent at eight three six five nine uh 568 00:28:20.904 --> 00:28:22.904 resources up north one 569 00:28:22.904 --> 00:28:27.589 one five percent uh without any real features there i think the big feature 570 00:28:27.589 --> 00:28:29.589 banks down 571 00:28:29.589 --> 00:28:30.888 funny um Financial generally under pressure. 572 00:28:31.268 --> 00:28:37.514 The industrial index was up 0.88% solely because of the Richmond contribution. 573 00:28:37.894 --> 00:28:40.677 And I'm looking at the consumer discretionary index, 574 00:28:40.777 --> 00:28:45.381 which was up over 4.5% again because of Richmond. 575 00:28:45.661 --> 00:28:47.944 But if I do go through the full, 576 00:28:49.205 --> 00:28:54.870 what I call the top 80 capitalized stocks, probably 50-50. 577 00:28:54.930 --> 00:28:57.992 there were as many gainers as there were losers. 578 00:28:58.032 --> 00:29:03.716 And you've mentioned, you know, those stocks that, you know, that were up and 579 00:29:03.716 --> 00:29:05.716 those that were down. 580 00:29:05.716 --> 00:29:07.716 Good. 581 00:29:07.716 --> 00:29:09.716 Okay. 582 00:29:09.716 --> 00:29:11.716 Gentlemen, thank you very much. 583 00:29:11.716 --> 00:29:13.716 It's lovely to have you back. 584 00:29:13.716 --> 00:29:15.716 David Shapiro is from SAS for Insecurities. 585 00:29:15.716 --> 00:29:17.716 Viv Govender from RAND Swiss, both in Johannesburg. 586 00:29:17.716 --> 00:29:19.716 And that was the 5 o'clock shadow, back same time next week. 587 00:29:19.716 --> 00:29:23.129 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and 588 00:29:23.129 --> 00:29:25.129 various contributors and do not reflect the policy, 589 00:29:25.129 --> 00:29:27.648 position, or opinion of any other agency, organization, employer, 590 00:29:27.988 --> 00:29:31.831 or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 591 00:29:32.291 --> 00:29:39.275 Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the position of any other 592 00:29:39.275 --> 00:29:41.275 entity other than the speaker or the author. 593 00:29:41.275 --> 00:29:45.439 And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to 594 00:29:45.439 --> 00:29:47.439 change, revision, 595 00:29:47.439 --> 00:29:47.580 and rethinking at any time. 596 00:29:47.900 --> 00:29:50.302 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.