WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.404 --> 00:00:05.448 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. 2 00:00:05.508 --> 00:00:09.251 Welcome to Shapiro World and it's a special edition of Shapiro World. 3 00:00:09.311 --> 00:00:14.616 Normally on a Monday, today it's a Tuesday, of course, and that was a 4 00:00:14.616 --> 00:00:16.616 technical issue with me yesterday. 5 00:00:16.616 --> 00:00:19.740 But the reason it's a special edition is because David and I are joined by Wayne 6 00:00:19.740 --> 00:00:21.740 McCurry, 7 00:00:21.740 --> 00:00:26.606 who used to be a portfolio manager at F&B Wealth and Investment and the person that 8 00:00:26.606 --> 00:00:28.606 populated Wayne on Wednesday. 9 00:00:28.606 --> 00:00:29.428 The very, very popular podcast and... 10 00:00:29.688 --> 00:00:30.869 It's now, of course, defunct. 11 00:00:30.869 --> 00:00:35.853 So it's a bittersweet day for me with Wayne retiring, but I think he deserves 12 00:00:35.853 --> 00:00:35.952 it. 13 00:00:35.952 --> 00:00:36.553 Don't you, David? 14 00:00:38.014 --> 00:00:38.714 No. 15 00:00:38.875 --> 00:00:39.635 No, I don't either. 16 00:00:43.118 --> 00:00:44.058 He's far too young. 17 00:00:44.899 --> 00:00:45.760 That's nonsense. 18 00:00:47.701 --> 00:00:50.703 Well, talking about… I think he's got other copies, but still. 19 00:00:50.703 --> 00:00:51.403 Yeah, exactly. 20 00:00:51.404 --> 00:00:57.008 I think the industry is going to miss a very valid and useful voice. 21 00:00:57.636 --> 00:01:01.098 And I must tell you something, Wayne, I was with Koki Koiman this morning. 22 00:01:01.198 --> 00:01:01.898 Yes. 23 00:01:01.898 --> 00:01:06.201 I was with Pete Major and we were doing a seminar. 24 00:01:06.241 --> 00:01:12.104 They flew up for something this morning and they couldn't stop talking about 25 00:01:12.444 --> 00:01:19.428 Wayne. And then what was also interesting is that there was a young audience that 26 00:01:19.428 --> 00:01:21.428 was there and they 27 00:01:21.428 --> 00:01:21.789 kept asking, what about Wayne? 28 00:01:21.829 --> 00:01:22.610 Where's he gone? 29 00:01:22.670 --> 00:01:23.650 Where can we find him? 30 00:01:24.131 --> 00:01:26.332 And I even got some job offers for him. 31 00:01:29.934 --> 00:01:31.755 I don't think he needs job offers. 32 00:01:32.775 --> 00:01:39.599 The one bit of advice I got about retirement was the lifestyle is good, but 33 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:41.599 the pay is not great. 34 00:01:43.561 --> 00:01:46.383 David, you were talking about Wayne's too young to retire. 35 00:01:46.963 --> 00:01:51.285 And that brings us on to the other part of the celebratory nature of this podcast. 36 00:01:51.325 --> 00:01:55.167 I'm going to say it's 77th birthday yesterday. 37 00:01:55.948 --> 00:01:56.648 Yes. 38 00:01:57.060 --> 00:01:57.760 Yeah. 39 00:01:57.760 --> 00:01:58.160 So? 40 00:01:58.941 --> 00:02:02.303 So, I've started to get, I've been old, but now I'm really getting old. 41 00:02:02.884 --> 00:02:08.707 So, and when I looked at Koki and Pete, and I looked at all of us, I sort of, you 42 00:02:08.707 --> 00:02:10.707 know, we were all kind of, 43 00:02:10.707 --> 00:02:13.750 you can see that slower walk up the stairs, you know what I mean? 44 00:02:13.750 --> 00:02:20.354 No, but look, I mean, Shapiro, Lindsay and I have discussed this on numerous 45 00:02:20.354 --> 00:02:22.354 occasions. 46 00:02:22.354 --> 00:02:23.456 I've known you forever. 47 00:02:24.284 --> 00:02:27.006 Lindsay's also known you for a very long time, 48 00:02:27.707 --> 00:02:31.990 and you look exactly the same as when we first met you. 49 00:02:32.730 --> 00:02:37.554 And in fact, Lindsay and I have speculated on this on more than one occasion. 50 00:02:38.094 --> 00:02:41.136 We think you look the same as you do now when you were born. 51 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:47.941 It's almost a backhanded compliment, isn't it? 52 00:02:47.941 --> 00:02:52.024 You look the same as you have always, but for the first 40 years of your life. 53 00:02:52.264 --> 00:02:54.025 You look like a 75-year-old. 54 00:02:55.026 --> 00:02:56.787 But I don't think that's true. 55 00:02:56.787 --> 00:02:58.929 But anyway, congratulations to both of you. 56 00:02:58.989 --> 00:03:04.152 And one of the reasons I wanted to do this podcast was, A, to sign for Wayne to sign 57 00:03:04.152 --> 00:03:04.392 off, 58 00:03:04.492 --> 00:03:10.597 because he's explained to me how much his job committed him to media commitments. 59 00:03:10.637 --> 00:03:12.358 And that made me feel a little bit guilty. 60 00:03:12.398 --> 00:03:15.200 But nonetheless, I think he enjoyed quite a lot of them. 61 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:20.063 But between you, you must have, what, 85, 90 years of experience? 62 00:03:20.083 --> 00:03:20.783 I don't know. 63 00:03:20.783 --> 00:03:21.444 Wayne, how long have you been in? 64 00:03:21.544 --> 00:03:24.285 business i know david it's over 50 years what about you 65 00:03:25.706 --> 00:03:32.409 35 years okay so we're talking david what are you up to 52 53 now since you joined 66 00:03:32.409 --> 00:03:32.789 the 67 00:03:32.789 --> 00:03:37.451 jsc yeah yeah but wayne's 35 were double mine you know so 68 00:03:37.852 --> 00:03:44.815 uh it was my my first few working years was as a accountant 69 00:03:45.315 --> 00:03:50.949 you know what i was trained to do you I was running orders on the floor, 70 00:03:50.989 --> 00:03:52.709 which wasn't what I was trying to do. 71 00:03:54.550 --> 00:03:58.291 So you're both accountants, so there's a wealth of experience in the bean counting, 72 00:03:58.751 --> 00:04:03.312 but also in the trading side and the portfolio management side. 73 00:04:03.312 --> 00:04:04.812 So where did it start, Wayne? 74 00:04:04.852 --> 00:04:06.493 Tell us, because you're a Kimberley boy. 75 00:04:07.073 --> 00:04:10.494 Yes, I'm a born and bred Kimberley lad. 76 00:04:11.314 --> 00:04:17.596 And when I went off into the army in 1976, I went home. 77 00:04:18.216 --> 00:04:24.781 one weekend on a weekend pass and I happened to go to my old school to watch a 78 00:04:24.781 --> 00:04:26.781 play that they had 79 00:04:26.781 --> 00:04:32.326 put on there and I saw a very beautiful young lady there that I didn't know who 80 00:04:32.326 --> 00:04:34.326 she was but I thought in for a 81 00:04:34.326 --> 00:04:37.629 penny in for a pound so I introduced myself and that was on the Friday night so 82 00:04:38.190 --> 00:04:42.673 I thought you know what do you do in Kimberley over the weekend in the 83 00:04:43.654 --> 00:04:50.505 1970s and there wasn't many options so I introduced myself and said Would you like 84 00:04:50.505 --> 00:04:52.505 to go out to the drive-in? 85 00:04:52.505 --> 00:04:54.352 Because that was about all there was available in Kimberley. 86 00:04:54.848 --> 00:04:58.030 And to my surprise and great delight, she said yes. 87 00:04:58.730 --> 00:04:59.430 Nice. 88 00:04:59.430 --> 00:05:05.714 So we went to go and see a really fantastic film called One for the 89 00:05:05.714 --> 00:05:07.714 Hippopotamus with Terence, 90 00:05:07.714 --> 00:05:09.714 Yule, and Bud Spencer. 91 00:05:09.714 --> 00:05:10.357 Okay. 92 00:05:10.357 --> 00:05:12.298 We're supposed to know who Terence, Yule, and Bud Spencer are. 93 00:05:12.318 --> 00:05:13.018 Who are they? 94 00:05:13.018 --> 00:05:18.862 A lot of people wouldn't know who they are, but they were spaghetti western guys, 95 00:05:18.862 --> 00:05:20.862 and they were absolutely awful. 96 00:05:20.862 --> 00:05:21.543 They were Italian. 97 00:05:21.583 --> 00:05:23.653 So these were the… What did they call them? 98 00:05:23.673 --> 00:05:27.375 The Italian... Spaghetti Westerns. 99 00:05:27.395 --> 00:05:28.095 Spaghetti Westerns, yeah, yeah. 100 00:05:28.095 --> 00:05:29.236 They were spaghetti Westerns. 101 00:05:29.796 --> 00:05:31.877 But she came from Peter Maritzburg. 102 00:05:31.917 --> 00:05:38.180 So when I was heading towards the end of my army career, her parents said to me, 103 00:05:38.180 --> 00:05:38.420 you know, 104 00:05:39.381 --> 00:05:41.402 would you like to move to Maritzburg? 105 00:05:41.442 --> 00:05:45.244 So I said, well, look, my dad's organized me a job on the mines in Kimberley. 106 00:05:46.125 --> 00:05:48.026 Can you get me a job in Maritzburg? 107 00:05:48.066 --> 00:05:50.067 So they said, no, fine, we'll organize it. 108 00:05:50.127 --> 00:05:51.988 And her dad was a banker. 109 00:05:52.048 --> 00:05:58.813 manager he knew a few people in town so he organized me a job with the firm of 110 00:05:58.813 --> 00:06:00.813 chartered accountants 111 00:06:00.813 --> 00:06:06.678 and and i mean i only did accountancy for six months and standard six at school so i 112 00:06:06.678 --> 00:06:08.678 said well 113 00:06:08.678 --> 00:06:11.902 okay so i went for an interview and i was i got the job and i joined there and 114 00:06:11.902 --> 00:06:18.146 then they said to me you know what university are you going to study through 115 00:06:18.146 --> 00:06:20.146 so i said you study yeah they said yeah yeah yeah 116 00:06:20.146 --> 00:06:22.493 so um i went to unita And, you know, 117 00:06:22.653 --> 00:06:26.375 and that's how I ended up becoming a chartered accountant eventually. 118 00:06:27.195 --> 00:06:33.619 And then I came up to Johannesburg and I joined the predecessor of the predecessor 119 00:06:33.619 --> 00:06:35.619 of Momentum First Rand. 120 00:06:35.619 --> 00:06:35.961 It was a company called LifeGrow. 121 00:06:36.921 --> 00:06:41.084 And a good friend of mine there, a good friend of mine there was the chief. 122 00:06:41.164 --> 00:06:42.224 I was an accountant there. 123 00:06:42.525 --> 00:06:46.287 He was the chief admin guy in the investments division. 124 00:06:48.988 --> 00:06:53.811 I mean, Shapiro will know this so well, where the Greg Blank story happened. 125 00:06:54.051 --> 00:06:56.092 That was 1989, wasn't it? 126 00:06:57.052 --> 00:06:57.752 Yeah. 127 00:06:57.752 --> 00:07:01.855 And one of our portfolio managers was involved in this. 128 00:07:02.575 --> 00:07:03.896 And he left. 129 00:07:03.956 --> 00:07:07.278 And this good friend of mine from the admin side said, please, 130 00:07:07.338 --> 00:07:13.581 won't I come and help him on the admin side in investments because of this whole 131 00:07:13.581 --> 00:07:15.581 turmoil with this 132 00:07:15.581 --> 00:07:16.623 portfolio manager leaving. 133 00:07:16.683 --> 00:07:18.304 So I went and helped on the admin there. 134 00:07:18.972 --> 00:07:21.653 And a very tragic set of circumstances, 135 00:07:23.153 --> 00:07:29.775 the chap they hired to replace him as a portfolio manager actually committed 136 00:07:29.775 --> 00:07:31.775 suicide in our building. 137 00:07:31.775 --> 00:07:33.775 Ow. 138 00:07:33.775 --> 00:07:37.758 And the head of investments, Peter de Tooy, who I still see regularly. 139 00:07:37.778 --> 00:07:39.138 I, in fact, saw him last week. 140 00:07:40.198 --> 00:07:42.859 A lot of it went out for our annual year-end lunch. 141 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:44.980 Peter de Tooy asked me. 142 00:07:45.492 --> 00:07:49.254 Won't I please come and stand in and help with portfolio management? 143 00:07:50.295 --> 00:07:52.456 And that's how I ended up in portfolio management. 144 00:07:53.036 --> 00:07:54.757 And did you take to it like a duck to water? 145 00:07:54.757 --> 00:07:59.260 I mean, could you apply your accountancy skills to portfolio management? 146 00:07:59.440 --> 00:08:00.260 Are they interlinked? 147 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:02.982 I mean, I imagine they are because David was an accountant. 148 00:08:04.462 --> 00:08:07.204 You try to, but they're actually two very different fields. 149 00:08:08.685 --> 00:08:13.167 Accountancy is far more stable, if you could like to put it that way. 150 00:08:13.207 --> 00:08:14.528 It's far, you can learn accounting. 151 00:08:14.928 --> 00:08:16.128 You can't learn investments. 152 00:08:16.128 --> 00:08:16.828 Yeah. 153 00:08:18.409 --> 00:08:24.451 And from then on, you stayed with what is now the First Round Group and just moved 154 00:08:24.451 --> 00:08:26.451 from place to place. 155 00:08:26.451 --> 00:08:27.252 Well, I stayed in more or less the same place. 156 00:08:27.252 --> 00:08:29.392 The company's name just changed quite often. 157 00:08:32.073 --> 00:08:33.053 Okay. 158 00:08:33.233 --> 00:08:34.393 David, you're the same. 159 00:08:34.413 --> 00:08:35.614 You've been with one firm. 160 00:08:35.894 --> 00:08:37.454 You changed once, didn't you, David? 161 00:08:37.774 --> 00:08:44.644 I did change through mainly because through the… We were taken out. 162 00:08:45.585 --> 00:08:50.807 Our firm was bought out by Societe Generale, who split the firm into two 163 00:08:50.807 --> 00:08:50.847 divisions, 164 00:08:50.847 --> 00:08:53.508 a retail and an institutional division. 165 00:08:53.608 --> 00:08:58.670 I was with the institutional division, and the French were all over the place. 166 00:08:58.690 --> 00:09:03.953 And this was when they, although they had bought us, very difficult people to deal 167 00:09:03.953 --> 00:09:04.232 with. 168 00:09:04.533 --> 00:09:09.835 And after the internet bubble burst and markets collapsed, they decided it was 169 00:09:09.835 --> 00:09:10.015 enough. 170 00:09:10.015 --> 00:09:11.856 They didn't want to be in emerging markets. 171 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:13.801 They sold out of Singapore. 172 00:09:13.841 --> 00:09:15.222 They sold out of Brazil. 173 00:09:15.322 --> 00:09:20.665 They sold out of all emerging markets, which included South Africa. 174 00:09:21.365 --> 00:09:24.267 So I was at a loose end, and I said, you know, I've had enough. 175 00:09:25.288 --> 00:09:26.408 There was deregulation. 176 00:09:26.468 --> 00:09:31.171 I said, I just want a little office, and I want to sit there and build up clients. 177 00:09:31.912 --> 00:09:35.754 And that was in the early 2000s. I went back to… 178 00:09:36.394 --> 00:09:43.180 what was what is today sasfin and alan greenstein was there was such a mess 179 00:09:43.180 --> 00:09:45.180 things were so bad that um 180 00:09:45.180 --> 00:09:50.446 you know he couldn't give me a job and i floated for a year and a half too i don't 181 00:09:50.446 --> 00:09:52.446 want to i don't want to even discuss it because it was an awful part of my 182 00:09:52.446 --> 00:09:54.446 life but but 183 00:09:54.446 --> 00:09:58.733 i mean just it was unsettled part and then after about two and a half years i came 184 00:09:58.733 --> 00:10:00.733 back and they 185 00:10:00.733 --> 00:10:04.078 offered me they said okay you're on the radio do our publicity you can have the 186 00:10:04.138 --> 00:10:06.099 50% of the income you produce. 187 00:10:06.459 --> 00:10:08.700 So 50% of nothing equals nothing. 188 00:10:09.180 --> 00:10:11.381 So I never had clients. 189 00:10:11.401 --> 00:10:14.342 I literally had to start one by one by one. 190 00:10:15.003 --> 00:10:18.024 And that was almost 20 years ago. 191 00:10:20.165 --> 00:10:21.745 And so, yeah, I've enjoyed it. 192 00:10:22.246 --> 00:10:28.448 But it's, you know, youngsters don't know what it's like to build up a client base 193 00:10:28.448 --> 00:10:30.448 one by one by one. 194 00:10:30.448 --> 00:10:32.448 So tell me about your client base. 195 00:10:32.448 --> 00:10:32.870 And sorry, Wayne, this is interesting to me because I haven't heard this before. 196 00:10:33.342 --> 00:10:39.146 Was it individual clients you maybe went to, the Jewish community, people that you 197 00:10:39.146 --> 00:10:41.146 know, and people that know you? 198 00:10:41.146 --> 00:10:42.387 Because Wayne and I often, don't we, Wayne, we talk about Shapiro. 199 00:10:43.908 --> 00:10:46.150 It's mainly about two things, how gregarious. 200 00:10:47.090 --> 00:10:53.454 Wayne, before we get to you, David, we talk about… Before David carries on, 201 00:10:53.494 --> 00:10:54.655 before David carries on. 202 00:10:54.655 --> 00:10:55.355 Yeah, go on. 203 00:10:55.855 --> 00:10:59.638 Shapiro knows everyone. 204 00:10:59.638 --> 00:11:03.661 You go… anywhere with Shapiro, you'll know a few people. 205 00:11:04.381 --> 00:11:08.544 Lots of people know Shapiro, but I can tell you one thing. 206 00:11:09.025 --> 00:11:09.725 Yeah. 207 00:11:10.346 --> 00:11:12.087 All the girls know Shapiro. 208 00:11:13.248 --> 00:11:14.128 Because he's a pest. 209 00:11:15.690 --> 00:11:16.630 No, not at all. 210 00:11:16.630 --> 00:11:17.831 He's such a charming man. 211 00:11:20.093 --> 00:11:20.793 That's funny. 212 00:11:21.974 --> 00:11:28.219 The one thing I always joke about the Jewish community is dealing with them is 213 00:11:28.219 --> 00:11:30.219 that They never want to pay you fees. 214 00:11:30.219 --> 00:11:32.219 You know, that's the whole thing. 215 00:11:32.219 --> 00:11:33.201 They've always got to negotiate. 216 00:11:33.281 --> 00:11:34.642 We'll get to the other reason that we... 217 00:11:34.642 --> 00:11:35.322 I'm just kidding. 218 00:11:35.322 --> 00:11:35.702 I'm just saying. 219 00:11:36.402 --> 00:11:37.783 It was the base, but... 220 00:11:38.723 --> 00:11:42.145 But it wasn't just institutional clients that you got. 221 00:11:42.145 --> 00:11:43.966 It was just high net worth individuals. 222 00:11:44.586 --> 00:11:49.348 I want to tell you something which is so relevant and 223 00:11:51.489 --> 00:11:53.190 it's also indicative of the country. 224 00:11:53.666 --> 00:11:59.529 Because I knew some people in the institutional market and I would go and 225 00:11:59.529 --> 00:12:01.529 speak to them and they would say to me, 226 00:12:01.529 --> 00:12:04.352 I'm sorry, we can't give you business because you're white. 227 00:12:05.192 --> 00:12:08.094 We've got to give it to black economic power. 228 00:12:08.094 --> 00:12:10.175 I said, but I'm by myself. 229 00:12:10.315 --> 00:12:11.256 That's my business. 230 00:12:11.576 --> 00:12:12.316 I mean, that's me. 231 00:12:12.957 --> 00:12:15.158 I'm only a one person business. 232 00:12:15.878 --> 00:12:17.799 Even though I was part of SASPEN and that. 233 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:22.662 So I decided in an institutional business, in other words, to. 234 00:12:23.202 --> 00:12:30.105 To go in that direction was very, very difficult because of the huge requirements 235 00:12:30.105 --> 00:12:32.105 that they were putting on you. 236 00:12:32.105 --> 00:12:34.105 And I couldn't fulfill that. 237 00:12:34.105 --> 00:12:36.105 You know, literally, it was me. 238 00:12:36.105 --> 00:12:40.209 And even today, there are only five of us that run my particular division within 239 00:12:40.209 --> 00:12:42.209 SASFIN. 240 00:12:42.209 --> 00:12:44.209 And it's big. 241 00:12:44.209 --> 00:12:48.072 You know, when I say we've built up a very, very solid base, and it's a large 242 00:12:48.072 --> 00:12:50.072 business today, 243 00:12:50.072 --> 00:12:52.114 and a lot of that came because I made the switch offshore. 244 00:12:52.726 --> 00:12:53.886 very early stages. 245 00:12:53.906 --> 00:12:59.828 You know, we started investing outside as soon as they started to ease exchange 246 00:12:59.828 --> 00:13:01.828 controls. 247 00:13:01.828 --> 00:13:03.569 And so it gave me an advantage over a lot of other divisions. 248 00:13:04.950 --> 00:13:05.650 But that was it. 249 00:13:05.710 --> 00:13:06.590 So, yeah. 250 00:13:07.010 --> 00:13:13.832 I would have thought that, again, from anecdotal evidence from both of you, you 251 00:13:13.832 --> 00:13:15.832 both stayed loyal apart from a brief period of you, 252 00:13:15.832 --> 00:13:16.373 David, going off and having a bad time of it. 253 00:13:16.373 --> 00:13:18.654 But coming back now, and thank goodness you did. 254 00:13:19.414 --> 00:13:20.114 But... 255 00:13:20.114 --> 00:13:26.436 Because of the regulations and the rules and the paperwork and the bureaucracy 256 00:13:26.436 --> 00:13:28.436 involved with switching companies, 257 00:13:28.436 --> 00:13:30.436 people don't do that anymore. 258 00:13:30.436 --> 00:13:34.998 They get embedded in a company because I would imagine, Wayne, you did very well 259 00:13:34.998 --> 00:13:36.998 and there would be certain people you would speak to and say, well, look, 260 00:13:36.998 --> 00:13:38.599 Wayne, you might have said hypothetically, I'm moving to this company. 261 00:13:38.979 --> 00:13:39.739 Will you support me? 262 00:13:39.739 --> 00:13:40.940 And that person would say yes. 263 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:42.000 And the same with you, David. 264 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:46.481 But you said you can't do it because it is an onerous experience. 265 00:13:46.621 --> 00:13:47.321 Yeah. 266 00:13:47.321 --> 00:13:49.762 Look, I know a good few people. 267 00:13:49.862 --> 00:13:54.264 people that have set up their own shop, two people in particular, 268 00:13:55.265 --> 00:13:57.066 and it is horrendous. 269 00:13:59.848 --> 00:14:05.751 You actually got to, obviously, you must be qualified as a portfolio manager and 270 00:14:05.751 --> 00:14:07.751 have all of those things, 271 00:14:07.751 --> 00:14:09.553 because certainly when David and I started, it was nothing like that. 272 00:14:09.593 --> 00:14:13.996 But I mean, that's not the end of the world to pass those exams, quite honestly. 273 00:14:14.076 --> 00:14:18.238 They're very reasonable exams, and that's not too onerous. 274 00:14:19.062 --> 00:14:25.629 But the only way you actually can do it without killing yourself with 275 00:14:25.629 --> 00:14:27.629 administrations to do what David's done is you 276 00:14:27.629 --> 00:14:32.496 essentially join a company with all the compliance and all the ledger and 277 00:14:32.496 --> 00:14:34.496 everything done as a 278 00:14:34.496 --> 00:14:36.496 portfolio manager. 279 00:14:36.496 --> 00:14:38.496 Then you essentially just enter into a. 280 00:14:38.496 --> 00:14:40.757 a profit sharing arrangement with this other company. 281 00:14:40.777 --> 00:14:46.320 So even though you're running your own business, you're essentially piggybacking 282 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:48.320 off someone else's license. 283 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:48.341 It's in fact the only way you can do it. 284 00:14:49.501 --> 00:14:54.423 And compliance today, Lindsay, is you have no idea how, 285 00:14:55.944 --> 00:14:57.405 what sort of draining it is. 286 00:14:57.765 --> 00:15:01.867 You know, in the olden days, we used to have maybe a compliance officer. 287 00:15:01.927 --> 00:15:08.161 Today, You have no idea how many people are in compliance and on in fact at the 288 00:15:08.161 --> 00:15:08.300 moment 289 00:15:08.300 --> 00:15:15.103 the most annoying thing that's happening to me I keep getting these These emails to 290 00:15:15.103 --> 00:15:17.103 tell me to do my crypto 291 00:15:17.103 --> 00:15:19.103 Not crypto. 292 00:15:19.103 --> 00:15:23.305 Sorry cyber cyber training My training job and I'm a 293 00:15:24.145 --> 00:15:29.967 And it's one course of the other and they get cross because they do compliance point 294 00:15:29.967 --> 00:15:30.147 of view 295 00:15:30.587 --> 00:15:37.089 fulfill that i have to do it otherwise i get the firm into trouble yeah david 296 00:15:37.089 --> 00:15:39.089 obviously works for a bank same as i worked for a bank 297 00:15:39.089 --> 00:15:44.091 and one of my true pleasures two weeks ago whatever it was i got a letter 298 00:15:44.351 --> 00:15:50.953 saying you have to complete your you have training to complete it and i could just 299 00:15:50.953 --> 00:15:52.953 reply back 300 00:15:52.953 --> 00:15:54.953 and say i'm retiring 301 00:15:54.953 --> 00:15:59.335 in two days time so you have the true highlights is that i forced the same as 302 00:15:59.375 --> 00:16:02.392 david asu You've got training to complete. 303 00:16:03.013 --> 00:16:04.293 I could just reply back. 304 00:16:05.634 --> 00:16:08.616 And I'm going to finish it by the end of November. 305 00:16:08.636 --> 00:16:11.377 And I've said I'm retiring the end of October. 306 00:16:11.958 --> 00:16:13.418 Thank you very much. 307 00:16:13.418 --> 00:16:18.481 So you had to sit in the class with other people, presumably of all different age 308 00:16:18.481 --> 00:16:20.481 groups and all different backgrounds, 309 00:16:20.481 --> 00:16:21.603 to learn about cybersecurity or something. 310 00:16:21.823 --> 00:16:23.424 All of our training was online. 311 00:16:23.784 --> 00:16:24.484 Oh, I see. 312 00:16:24.484 --> 00:16:25.005 Okay. 313 00:16:25.005 --> 00:16:25.545 No. 314 00:16:25.765 --> 00:16:26.686 No, I'm not. 315 00:16:27.026 --> 00:16:27.726 What a world. 316 00:16:27.726 --> 00:16:28.387 So I'm going and... 317 00:16:28.507 --> 00:16:35.393 poppy and all of these things yeah it's it's it's probably right and probably 318 00:16:35.393 --> 00:16:37.393 justified but it was it 319 00:16:37.393 --> 00:16:41.758 was it was it was a lot of a lot of hours you had to put in and yet with all this 320 00:16:41.838 --> 00:16:44.841 compliance and all this regulation you 321 00:16:44.841 --> 00:16:51.706 know it doesn't stop the ponzi schemes it doesn't stop no any of this no everything 322 00:16:51.706 --> 00:16:53.706 we'll we'll 323 00:16:53.706 --> 00:16:58.252 come to what's changed in a moment yeah but just very briefly Because I don't want 324 00:16:58.252 --> 00:16:58.511 to get this, 325 00:16:58.511 --> 00:17:02.454 I don't want to go on a love fest nostalgia trip here, but you've obviously 326 00:17:02.454 --> 00:17:04.454 got respect for each other. 327 00:17:04.454 --> 00:17:06.454 Where did you first meet? 328 00:17:06.454 --> 00:17:07.898 Was it, I mean, I can remember you being on TV up until a few weeks ago. 329 00:17:07.998 --> 00:17:08.758 I can't remember now. 330 00:17:08.758 --> 00:17:11.860 But anyway, you're always on that show with Julieta Tlevi. 331 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:13.921 And that was always good fun. 332 00:17:14.221 --> 00:17:15.302 But where did you first meet? 333 00:17:15.302 --> 00:17:16.443 At a conference or something? 334 00:17:17.223 --> 00:17:17.923 David? 335 00:17:17.923 --> 00:17:18.204 I don't know. 336 00:17:18.204 --> 00:17:18.664 I don't know. 337 00:17:18.664 --> 00:17:20.245 I just knew. 338 00:17:20.245 --> 00:17:21.546 I remember we were in the 90s. 339 00:17:21.566 --> 00:17:22.907 It was early 90s. Yeah. 340 00:17:23.671 --> 00:17:25.292 Wayne was with RMB. 341 00:17:25.592 --> 00:17:27.294 He was a portfolio manager there. 342 00:17:28.154 --> 00:17:29.795 And always clever. 343 00:17:29.895 --> 00:17:31.737 I've got to say there's something about Wayne. 344 00:17:31.797 --> 00:17:32.497 Here we go. 345 00:17:32.497 --> 00:17:34.899 There's one thing that, no, no, this is not, you know what? 346 00:17:34.919 --> 00:17:35.619 No, I like this. 347 00:17:35.619 --> 00:17:41.123 The thing that people miss is that Wayne has got the most incredible brain. 348 00:17:41.383 --> 00:17:46.707 Julietta will ask him a question and he'll just sit there and I'm saying, oh, God, 349 00:17:46.707 --> 00:17:48.707 how am I going to answer this one? 350 00:17:48.707 --> 00:17:48.968 And Wayne will just say, there are three points. 351 00:17:49.068 --> 00:17:51.590 I said, how do you know there are three points? 352 00:17:52.050 --> 00:17:52.750 You know what I mean? 353 00:17:53.271 --> 00:17:54.432 Where do you get this from? 354 00:17:55.712 --> 00:18:00.455 And methodically, he'd go through number one, number two, number three. 355 00:18:00.455 --> 00:18:03.397 You know, I'm still grasping, saying, oh, God, I don't know what to do. 356 00:18:03.537 --> 00:18:04.857 I don't know how to answer this. 357 00:18:05.258 --> 00:18:11.781 And he had that one, and I mean it, you know, he had this incredible, clear, and 358 00:18:11.781 --> 00:18:13.781 thorough line of thought, 359 00:18:13.781 --> 00:18:14.102 whatever he answered, you know, everything like that. 360 00:18:14.503 --> 00:18:16.744 Well, thanks for that, David. 361 00:18:16.764 --> 00:18:22.287 But, I mean, just as another comment, Lindsay and I have also discussed your 362 00:18:22.287 --> 00:18:24.287 knowledge base. 363 00:18:24.287 --> 00:18:26.229 And we also say, you know, he's actually quite smug in his knowledge. 364 00:18:30.771 --> 00:18:32.492 I claim the fifth on this one, by the way. 365 00:18:34.774 --> 00:18:40.357 And I'm saying that's what people love about Wayne and what they can do. 366 00:18:40.437 --> 00:18:44.699 Because the one thing, if I may say, about the two of us, 367 00:18:46.580 --> 00:18:51.763 there was never, I don't think on any show either Wayne... 368 00:18:52.003 --> 00:18:53.384 or myself wanted to brag. 369 00:18:53.785 --> 00:19:00.571 You know, you never wanted to show we were cleverer than the rest and kind of quote 370 00:19:00.571 --> 00:19:02.571 earnings to the fourth decimal 371 00:19:02.571 --> 00:19:04.054 point or try and brag, you know, 372 00:19:04.094 --> 00:19:07.877 use words that no one could understand and fancy language. 373 00:19:09.278 --> 00:19:12.862 Now, look, that's one thing I learned in investments at a very young age. 374 00:19:12.862 --> 00:19:15.704 There's two ways you can be an investment person. 375 00:19:15.744 --> 00:19:18.867 You can either be, you know, have a lot of hubris. 376 00:19:19.791 --> 00:19:23.133 Be very arrogant about your knowledge base and how good you are, 377 00:19:23.953 --> 00:19:30.397 but that you soon fall short on that because, quite honestly, in investments, 378 00:19:31.137 --> 00:19:32.318 no one's a genius. 379 00:19:32.358 --> 00:19:36.420 Everyone makes mistakes and plenty and plenty. 380 00:19:37.172 --> 00:19:43.156 Or the other way is you talk in normal language, you try and explain things, 381 00:19:43.176 --> 00:19:47.219 you don't talk down to people, you know, I know what I'm doing, you stupid, 382 00:19:47.239 --> 00:19:53.484 so therefore you must give me your money so I can invest it for you better than 383 00:19:53.484 --> 00:19:55.484 what you can do that. 384 00:19:55.484 --> 00:19:59.928 So, I mean, it's always been my sort of approach to clients and to the, you know, 385 00:19:59.928 --> 00:20:04.531 the general audience is you don't have to impress people how clever you are. 386 00:20:04.551 --> 00:20:05.251 You've got to. 387 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:11.463 Your primary objective is to explain things logically that people can 388 00:20:11.463 --> 00:20:13.463 understand. 389 00:20:13.463 --> 00:20:17.967 Yes, and you do that very well, which is why, as I said, this is a bittersweet 390 00:20:17.967 --> 00:20:19.967 podcast that we're conducting now because 391 00:20:19.967 --> 00:20:21.967 I won't have this again. 392 00:20:21.967 --> 00:20:26.272 But David, just to embellish the point that you said, on a Wednesday, when I say 393 00:20:26.272 --> 00:20:28.272 getting ready for Wayne on Wednesday, 394 00:20:28.272 --> 00:20:30.272 I've read a bit during the day, etc. 395 00:20:30.272 --> 00:20:33.696 But I'm not really sure what the format of the program is going to be, the podcast is 396 00:20:33.696 --> 00:20:35.696 going to be, because I know... 397 00:20:35.696 --> 00:20:36.077 that Wayne is going to come up with something. 398 00:20:36.177 --> 00:20:38.037 I'll say, well, what about platinum group metals? 399 00:20:38.297 --> 00:20:41.218 What about the tech sector on the NASDAQ, et cetera? 400 00:20:41.578 --> 00:20:42.558 And he'll come up with it. 401 00:20:42.838 --> 00:20:47.000 I'll go make a cup of tea, get myself a biscuit, come back, and he's still 402 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.000 talking. 403 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:49.880 I don't need to be there. 404 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.101 It's almost just a few Wayne. 405 00:20:53.261 --> 00:20:57.702 That's also one thing that I've also understood in my investment career. 406 00:20:58.703 --> 00:21:05.585 Between David and myself, and there's one other individual, chap who works for a 407 00:21:05.585 --> 00:21:07.585 very, 408 00:21:07.585 --> 00:21:12.028 very well-known asset management company who also heads their offices in Melrose 409 00:21:12.028 --> 00:21:14.028 Arch. 410 00:21:14.028 --> 00:21:14.549 Very well-known, big asset management company. 411 00:21:15.269 --> 00:21:16.590 If you take the three of us, 412 00:21:17.230 --> 00:21:23.312 you should never be short of words because we can wing it, 413 00:21:23.513 --> 00:21:29.875 we can swing it, we can waffle away forever on many, 414 00:21:29.975 --> 00:21:31.596 many subjects. 415 00:21:31.896 --> 00:21:33.077 I didn't want to say his name. 416 00:21:33.117 --> 00:21:36.480 I love doing presentations with Kevin because you can sit back. 417 00:21:37.681 --> 00:21:40.043 Is he still standing? 418 00:21:41.264 --> 00:21:41.964 Yeah. 419 00:21:41.964 --> 00:21:42.444 Is he? 420 00:21:42.444 --> 00:21:43.146 He's a great economist. 421 00:21:43.406 --> 00:21:44.587 I really enjoy his stuff. 422 00:21:44.807 --> 00:21:47.689 But he reduces his views, yes. 423 00:21:48.070 --> 00:21:52.714 He said, whenever you invite him for a conference or to speak, 424 00:21:53.494 --> 00:21:55.176 you've got to give him an hour and a half. 425 00:21:55.236 --> 00:21:58.859 And he'll tell you, listen, I can't do it in less than one and a half hours. 426 00:21:58.859 --> 00:22:00.320 I can't do it in less than one and a half hours. 427 00:22:01.996 --> 00:22:02.696 Be prepared. 428 00:22:02.756 --> 00:22:05.957 But everything he does is easy to understand. 429 00:22:06.437 --> 00:22:09.718 His charts are one-line charts, and he gets to the point. 430 00:22:10.318 --> 00:22:12.319 But very enjoyable. 431 00:22:13.699 --> 00:22:16.420 But Wayne, yeah, you've got to give him one and a half hours. 432 00:22:16.420 --> 00:22:18.021 You've got the okay. 433 00:22:18.761 --> 00:22:20.662 We've got the Mutual Appreciation Society. 434 00:22:20.982 --> 00:22:22.082 I'm in the middle of it. 435 00:22:22.082 --> 00:22:28.764 But one thing I will say, David, is that despite the fact that Wayne talks a lot, 436 00:22:28.764 --> 00:22:30.764 and when I say a lot, a lot of sense. 437 00:22:30.764 --> 00:22:33.635 And also at the end of our programs, which will come to a moment, we talk about food, 438 00:22:33.635 --> 00:22:35.635 but that's another matter. 439 00:22:35.635 --> 00:22:36.697 But your name often comes up. 440 00:22:36.797 --> 00:22:42.221 Firstly, and we've already mentioned this, or Wayne has, you are a well-liked 441 00:22:42.221 --> 00:22:44.221 individual. 442 00:22:44.221 --> 00:22:47.785 And ladies apparently enjoy your charm and the fact that you know how to talk to a 443 00:22:47.785 --> 00:22:48.085 woman. 444 00:22:48.366 --> 00:22:50.567 But the other thing is, is the way you dress. 445 00:22:50.627 --> 00:22:52.128 Now, Wayne won't mind me saying this. 446 00:22:52.208 --> 00:22:53.790 He buys his clothes from Pick and Pay. 447 00:22:53.810 --> 00:22:55.871 Yeah. 448 00:22:55.891 --> 00:22:56.591 And. 449 00:22:58.356 --> 00:23:01.337 And he'll say, I don't care, Lindsay. 450 00:23:01.477 --> 00:23:05.659 I'm going into my garage, my factory, for my other hobby. 451 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:11.942 And I don't need to look natty, but Shapiro is walking down Fifth Avenue and 452 00:23:11.942 --> 00:23:13.942 going into 453 00:23:13.942 --> 00:23:14.923 Giorgio Armani or something like that. 454 00:23:15.904 --> 00:23:18.505 Shapiro is a natty dresser. 455 00:23:18.505 --> 00:23:19.205 He's natty. 456 00:23:20.565 --> 00:23:24.047 But I'll tell you two very quick stories about Shapiro. 457 00:23:24.127 --> 00:23:26.188 Shapiro and I once went on a... 458 00:23:26.584 --> 00:23:29.485 We did presentations in Durban and we meet at 459 00:23:30.306 --> 00:23:34.947 OR Tambo here and we're flying to Durban and we're standing in the queue to board 460 00:23:34.947 --> 00:23:36.947 the aeroplane. 461 00:23:36.947 --> 00:23:41.470 And just in front of us was a group of young ladies, early 462 00:23:42.050 --> 00:23:46.412 20s. And they were part of a percussion band called Chicks with Sticks. 463 00:23:46.412 --> 00:23:48.533 So they played drums and cymbals and that. 464 00:23:49.733 --> 00:23:53.135 And very, very pretty girls, you know, very pretty girls. 465 00:23:53.815 --> 00:23:56.156 Before we boarded the aeroplane. 466 00:23:56.636 --> 00:23:59.538 Shapiro knew all their names and their life history. 467 00:24:00.099 --> 00:24:04.362 They're standing in the queue to go through the gate to get to the airplane. 468 00:24:05.623 --> 00:24:07.164 Yeah, chicks with sticks. 469 00:24:07.204 --> 00:24:14.169 And then we're at that Durban, and we were on the beachfront, and Shapiro and I got 470 00:24:14.169 --> 00:24:16.169 up early, so we said, let's, it was summer, it was lovely, 471 00:24:16.169 --> 00:24:17.611 let's go to the beachfront and go and find a coffee there. 472 00:24:17.631 --> 00:24:20.353 So we found a place that does skiing lessons. 473 00:24:20.353 --> 00:24:24.216 You know, the moms and dads drop off their youngsters to come. 474 00:24:24.436 --> 00:24:25.899 to learn to swim before... 475 00:24:25.999 --> 00:24:26.981 Surfing, surfing, sorry. 476 00:24:27.522 --> 00:24:28.222 Surfing, yeah. 477 00:24:28.243 --> 00:24:30.808 Before school starts, they go surfing. 478 00:24:31.269 --> 00:24:36.580 And there was this very young waitress in a little beach outfit. 479 00:24:37.188 --> 00:24:39.450 sort of thing, whatever, but a pretty girl. 480 00:24:40.091 --> 00:24:41.532 And Shapiro and I were sitting. 481 00:24:41.912 --> 00:24:45.395 Within 10 minutes, this lady was sitting next to Shapiro, 482 00:24:45.876 --> 00:24:51.681 and every other patron there didn't get a cup of coffee or a toasted sandwich for 483 00:24:51.681 --> 00:24:53.681 the next half an hour. 484 00:24:53.681 --> 00:24:58.667 If Linda Shapiro is listening to this podcast this evening, then it's all good 485 00:24:58.667 --> 00:25:00.667 natured stuff, Linda. 486 00:25:00.667 --> 00:25:02.667 Don't worry. 487 00:25:02.667 --> 00:25:04.712 Look, I always tease David and say the reason why young girls like him so much. 488 00:25:05.236 --> 00:25:07.437 He's very much the grandfather figure. 489 00:25:07.837 --> 00:25:09.098 Ah, I see. 490 00:25:09.258 --> 00:25:09.958 Yes. 491 00:25:10.779 --> 00:25:11.539 Yes, yes, yes. 492 00:25:12.159 --> 00:25:12.859 Exactly. 493 00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:14.880 The wise man with the twinkle in his eye. 494 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.441 Yes, I see what you mean. 495 00:25:16.801 --> 00:25:20.583 Now, let's get on to the markets again, finally, before a quick food story from 496 00:25:20.583 --> 00:25:20.883 Wayne. 497 00:25:20.903 --> 00:25:25.325 Wayne, when you sat down at your desk, when that tragedy occurred at your office, 498 00:25:25.565 --> 00:25:31.688 and it gave you an opportunity to become a portfolio manager, when you sat down at 499 00:25:31.688 --> 00:25:33.688 your desk, you had certain principles. 500 00:25:33.688 --> 00:25:34.977 that were instilled in you from the training that you'd had. 501 00:25:35.637 --> 00:25:39.178 And over the decades that you've been in the business, things have changed. 502 00:25:39.198 --> 00:25:44.639 The dissemination of information, the screens, the products, the ETFs and 503 00:25:44.639 --> 00:25:46.639 everything, 504 00:25:46.639 --> 00:25:50.701 the proliferation of products and the complication of financial services and 505 00:25:50.701 --> 00:25:52.701 financial markets. 506 00:25:52.701 --> 00:25:54.002 The principles still must stay the same. 507 00:25:54.022 --> 00:26:00.364 No matter how many things change extraneously, the principles of investing 508 00:26:00.364 --> 00:26:02.364 are the same as when you first started. 509 00:26:02.364 --> 00:26:04.364 Yeah. 510 00:26:04.364 --> 00:26:07.047 Look, the biggest single change, obviously, what you invest in changes all 511 00:26:07.047 --> 00:26:09.047 the time and always will. 512 00:26:09.047 --> 00:26:12.290 You know, shares go up, shares go down, sectors, new ideas, all of that. 513 00:26:12.550 --> 00:26:13.551 That's investments. 514 00:26:14.291 --> 00:26:19.814 So what really the fundamental change has been the dissemination of information. 515 00:26:19.834 --> 00:26:20.534 There you are. 516 00:26:20.835 --> 00:26:25.317 You know, you used to rely on magazines, the newspaper, but especially the brokers. 517 00:26:26.498 --> 00:26:29.299 You know, you've very seldom met company management. 518 00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:30.400 Now you. 519 00:26:30.460 --> 00:26:36.946 get all that information yourself and it's readily available via sends by the 520 00:26:36.946 --> 00:26:38.946 company's websites i mean there weren't 521 00:26:38.946 --> 00:26:42.772 websites david will remember and he might even remember the chap's name in the early 522 00:26:43.272 --> 00:26:50.078 90s there was you didn't have you didn't have a chart on your computer of the price 523 00:26:50.078 --> 00:26:52.078 of a share yeah there was a line i can't 524 00:26:52.078 --> 00:26:55.944 remember used to men yes chap used to manually draw it on graph paper 525 00:26:56.432 --> 00:26:58.914 and then photocopied and sent it to you each month. 526 00:26:58.954 --> 00:27:02.576 So you had the last five years history of share prices. 527 00:27:02.596 --> 00:27:04.117 You didn't even have all of that. 528 00:27:04.137 --> 00:27:10.962 So the information is a lot more readily available, obviously, and there's a lot 529 00:27:10.962 --> 00:27:12.962 more analytical tools you can use, 530 00:27:12.962 --> 00:27:14.962 which you didn't have. 531 00:27:14.962 --> 00:27:18.587 But everything, so everything's changed, but everything has stayed the same. 532 00:27:19.448 --> 00:27:24.872 You know, Lindsay, my story, and when you talk about communication, I'll just... 533 00:27:25.292 --> 00:27:26.773 extend this very briefly. 534 00:27:27.193 --> 00:27:28.814 When I went onto the floor, 535 00:27:30.034 --> 00:27:34.276 we used to deal with our counterparts in the UK through telex. 536 00:27:34.576 --> 00:27:36.517 I mean, it was very expensive. 537 00:27:37.077 --> 00:27:42.679 And if you, you know, where you had a direct line with your counterpart, so you 538 00:27:42.679 --> 00:27:44.679 were, you know, 539 00:27:44.679 --> 00:27:46.679 you couldn't afford too many lines. 540 00:27:46.679 --> 00:27:49.642 But we also used to use coded telegrams because there was no direct dialing. 541 00:27:50.343 --> 00:27:53.704 So there was a, the time that it took. 542 00:27:54.220 --> 00:28:00.262 Even if we had a direct line, there was like a five-minute to ten-minute break 543 00:28:00.262 --> 00:28:02.262 before you sent a message through to 544 00:28:02.262 --> 00:28:02.582 your counterpart overseas and he came back. 545 00:28:03.163 --> 00:28:05.623 And if you sent telegrams, it was like 30 minutes. 546 00:28:06.063 --> 00:28:11.245 And then once they brought in direct dialing, it was, you know, you could just 547 00:28:11.245 --> 00:28:13.245 phone your mates on the 548 00:28:13.245 --> 00:28:16.486 London Stock Exchange and you got automatic, you know, it took away 549 00:28:16.486 --> 00:28:18.486 arbitrage. 550 00:28:18.486 --> 00:28:21.548 It took away the trading of price differences between those markets. 551 00:28:23.008 --> 00:28:29.971 And that only came in 1978, direct dialing, where you can actually just pick 552 00:28:29.971 --> 00:28:31.971 up a phone and dial London and so on. 553 00:28:31.971 --> 00:28:35.753 And then, of course, as Wayne said, we had William Merola, 554 00:28:36.374 --> 00:28:37.614 who was in our library. 555 00:28:38.234 --> 00:28:43.717 William Merola would take the Star, the Brand Daily Mail, Financial Mail, 556 00:28:43.997 --> 00:28:46.838 or whatever publications were there, the Financial Gazette. 557 00:28:47.198 --> 00:28:51.860 There were quite a few publications, and he would go through it every day and cut 558 00:28:51.860 --> 00:28:51.900 out. 559 00:28:52.308 --> 00:28:57.993 articles, cut them out and stick them in a file, an article or the results and so on. 560 00:28:58.233 --> 00:29:02.056 And then we'd have a separate file where we would keep the balance sheets. 561 00:29:02.577 --> 00:29:07.201 Now if you wanted that information, you had to come to our library to see it. 562 00:29:07.341 --> 00:29:11.524 And it was only well into the 90s that things started to change. 563 00:29:11.584 --> 00:29:12.305 In the early... 564 00:29:12.705 --> 00:29:13.405 Yeah. 565 00:29:13.405 --> 00:29:14.086 Yeah. 566 00:29:14.086 --> 00:29:15.688 We also had an extensive... 567 00:29:15.728 --> 00:29:20.252 We had a library with probably four or five staff members in it. 568 00:29:20.272 --> 00:29:20.972 And it... 569 00:29:20.972 --> 00:29:22.393 It took up huge floor space. 570 00:29:23.053 --> 00:29:27.316 But our librarian was a sweet, 571 00:29:27.536 --> 00:29:30.618 sweet lady with one drawback. 572 00:29:31.538 --> 00:29:37.925 Every Friday lunchtime, she went across the road to the… New London. 573 00:29:37.985 --> 00:29:38.685 Hotel. 574 00:29:38.685 --> 00:29:40.506 And had a good couple of drinks there and came back. 575 00:29:40.546 --> 00:29:45.947 So if you wanted anything on a Friday afternoon after lunch, forget it. 576 00:29:46.007 --> 00:29:47.587 Wait till Monday morning. 577 00:29:47.587 --> 00:29:53.209 You're bringing me, you're taking me back now, because when I was working for a 578 00:29:53.209 --> 00:29:55.209 commodity company in Sandton, the owner of the company, 579 00:29:55.209 --> 00:30:00.811 he'd go into his office and there were these big pieces of graph paper on his 580 00:30:00.811 --> 00:30:02.811 wall and he would come in every day and get the 581 00:30:02.811 --> 00:30:03.532 closing prices from the Chicago Board of Trade, et cetera. 582 00:30:03.832 --> 00:30:10.814 let's say, for example, soybeans, he'd get his pencil, he'd sharpen his pencil, and 583 00:30:10.814 --> 00:30:12.814 it would be, he'd draw in a line, 584 00:30:12.814 --> 00:30:15.915 it was a bar graph, put in the high and the low, obviously, which was a vertical 585 00:30:15.915 --> 00:30:17.915 line, 586 00:30:17.915 --> 00:30:23.018 and then a little dash to the left where the market opened, and a little dash to 587 00:30:23.018 --> 00:30:25.018 the right of that line where it closed. 588 00:30:25.018 --> 00:30:28.059 And every single day he would do this religiously because, as you said, there 589 00:30:28.059 --> 00:30:30.059 was nothing on a screen. 590 00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:31.640 But David, David, I'm sure you'll remember there was this step. 591 00:30:32.196 --> 00:30:38.181 who used to advertise, used to put little photographs in the financial mail and 592 00:30:38.181 --> 00:30:40.181 maybe the newspapers of 593 00:30:40.181 --> 00:30:44.486 him sitting outside under a sun umbrella selling this service. 594 00:30:44.506 --> 00:30:45.707 Man, what was the guy? 595 00:30:45.707 --> 00:30:46.648 I can't remember them now. 596 00:30:46.868 --> 00:30:47.568 Anyway, it doesn't matter. 597 00:30:47.629 --> 00:30:49.630 I know Trendline was what they called it. 598 00:30:49.630 --> 00:30:51.071 No, this was one individual. 599 00:30:51.132 --> 00:30:51.832 This was one? 600 00:30:51.832 --> 00:30:53.453 Yeah. 601 00:30:53.453 --> 00:30:54.153 Yeah. 602 00:30:54.153 --> 00:30:58.177 And you know, Lindsay, we used to use point and figure. 603 00:30:59.638 --> 00:31:00.338 Yes. 604 00:31:00.338 --> 00:31:01.320 Yeah, noughts and crosses. 605 00:31:01.768 --> 00:31:02.468 Yeah. 606 00:31:02.468 --> 00:31:06.609 So you needed, before you even plotted, it depended on what your scale was. 607 00:31:07.610 --> 00:31:11.771 You would only, if it was a three-point or three-point reversal or three-point, you 608 00:31:11.771 --> 00:31:12.031 know, so, 609 00:31:12.891 --> 00:31:18.293 and those were very difficult graphs to understand, you know, not the line graphs 610 00:31:18.293 --> 00:31:20.293 that we have today. 611 00:31:20.293 --> 00:31:21.113 And there was no such thing as a linear graph. 612 00:31:21.313 --> 00:31:23.794 Everything was, you know, purely sequential. 613 00:31:23.794 --> 00:31:24.854 There was no linear graph. 614 00:31:24.894 --> 00:31:30.016 So, you know, a hundred-point move off a base of a hundred shows the same as a 615 00:31:30.016 --> 00:31:30.456 hundred. 616 00:31:31.537 --> 00:31:34.299 point move of the base of 5,000. 617 00:31:34.299 --> 00:31:37.601 Gentlemen, it's time for Wayne to sign off finally. 618 00:31:37.601 --> 00:31:43.386 I mean, he'll be back for a couple of interviews, I'm sure, over the years, but 619 00:31:43.386 --> 00:31:45.386 if we're still here, David and myself. 620 00:31:45.386 --> 00:31:48.990 But Wayne, what David and I do on a Monday, which is when normally Shapiro 621 00:31:48.990 --> 00:31:50.990 World is recorded, 622 00:31:50.990 --> 00:31:53.193 we talk about football afterwards and I know you're not a football supporter, but 623 00:31:53.573 --> 00:31:57.396 David, what Wayne and I talk about once we finish with the financial market nonsense. 624 00:31:59.093 --> 00:32:00.033 We talk about food. 625 00:32:00.414 --> 00:32:06.437 Now, Wayne, you said you had your Christmas party a little bit earlier, in 626 00:32:06.437 --> 00:32:08.437 my opinion, but nonetheless, did you have a farewell do? 627 00:32:08.437 --> 00:32:10.399 And if so, did you do yourself proud with a really good feast? 628 00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:17.803 Well, my main farewell lunch is still coming up, but I do, however, have a very 629 00:32:17.803 --> 00:32:19.803 good food story to tell. 630 00:32:19.803 --> 00:32:21.803 Oh, good. 631 00:32:21.803 --> 00:32:25.928 All of my old colleagues from Momentum Stroke First Rand, there's a group. 632 00:32:26.148 --> 00:32:32.393 of I don't know 12 14 of us and we go out to lunch regularly every year 633 00:32:32.993 --> 00:32:39.918 and now there's only one person of that group still working there were two but now 634 00:32:39.918 --> 00:32:41.918 there's only one person of that group 635 00:32:41.918 --> 00:32:41.999 still working so 636 00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:49.064 we went to an Italian restaurant in Pretoria this is about a week ago two 637 00:32:49.064 --> 00:32:51.064 weeks ago something like that 638 00:32:51.064 --> 00:32:53.908 your week ago and and it was recommended so we have one year in Pretoria 639 00:32:54.236 --> 00:32:57.339 because lots of chaps are based there and then one year in Johannesburg. 640 00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:05.265 And we've been to some lovely places, make no mistake, but this year we went to an 641 00:33:05.265 --> 00:33:07.265 Italian restaurant just off the Garsfontein 642 00:33:07.265 --> 00:33:07.307 off-ramp, so it's very close to the highway. 643 00:33:08.288 --> 00:33:14.173 And I thought, Italian, okay, it's not my favorite favorite, but, you know, it's not 644 00:33:14.173 --> 00:33:14.212 my choice. 645 00:33:14.212 --> 00:33:16.395 It was the Pretoria contingent's choice. 646 00:33:17.276 --> 00:33:22.100 And we went there and the chap came through, the owner of the restaurant, and 647 00:33:22.100 --> 00:33:24.100 said, you know, here's our specials. 648 00:33:24.100 --> 00:33:29.225 and everything and then he mentioned this t-bone steak that they put a salt and 649 00:33:29.225 --> 00:33:31.225 pepper rub on 650 00:33:31.225 --> 00:33:36.752 and then they grilled it in the pizza oven it was the most delicious 651 00:33:37.512 --> 00:33:43.357 ever because the inside was nice and sort of medium rare but the outside was crispy 652 00:33:43.357 --> 00:33:43.477 and 653 00:33:43.477 --> 00:33:44.678 well done with the salt 654 00:33:44.738 --> 00:33:51.584 and pepper rub on it and some other spices and stuff it was truly delicious i mean 655 00:33:51.584 --> 00:33:51.703 normally 656 00:33:52.152 --> 00:33:58.274 I'm not a big T-bone steak fan, because normally the non-fillet side can be a 657 00:33:58.274 --> 00:34:00.274 little bit tough. 658 00:34:00.274 --> 00:34:01.255 This was absolutely fantastic. 659 00:34:01.275 --> 00:34:04.876 So we had, I mean, we had the most fun afternoon. 660 00:34:04.876 --> 00:34:10.117 I mean, that's really just reminiscing about, let's call it the old days, you 661 00:34:10.117 --> 00:34:12.117 know, when the company started. 662 00:34:12.117 --> 00:34:13.898 Now we all got together and, you know, other colleagues that we worked with, 663 00:34:13.898 --> 00:34:17.379 the successful ones and the not so successful ones. 664 00:34:17.819 --> 00:34:19.860 So it's a very memorable. 665 00:34:20.456 --> 00:34:21.657 occasion once a year. 666 00:34:21.677 --> 00:34:27.423 We'll be doing it now for a very long time and we'll hopefully continue to do it also 667 00:34:27.423 --> 00:34:29.423 for a long time. 668 00:34:29.423 --> 00:34:31.107 So it was really a nice afternoon. 669 00:34:31.528 --> 00:34:33.670 But then the end of this month, I've got my... 670 00:34:34.078 --> 00:34:40.784 Even though I've stopped working, I've got my real farewell lunch coming up on the 671 00:34:41.504 --> 00:34:42.204 29th. 672 00:34:42.585 --> 00:34:47.409 Hopefully you'll have an influence on where you go, maybe the Troiwool Hotel or 673 00:34:47.409 --> 00:34:49.409 something like that, Wayne. 674 00:34:49.409 --> 00:34:51.409 What do you think? 675 00:34:51.409 --> 00:34:51.973 We're going to a place like that, but not the Troiwool. 676 00:34:51.973 --> 00:34:55.316 The Troiwool is an absolutely magnificent place. 677 00:34:55.336 --> 00:35:01.842 I mean, as we've spoken about on many occasions, the family of Nando's have 678 00:35:01.842 --> 00:35:03.842 bought the company, bought the Troiwool. 679 00:35:03.842 --> 00:35:05.985 and they've really shaken the place up. 680 00:35:06.325 --> 00:35:09.067 It's very, very, it's really nice. 681 00:35:09.668 --> 00:35:11.369 And the menu is extensive. 682 00:35:11.369 --> 00:35:14.832 I mean, it's got one of the biggest menus I've ever seen. 683 00:35:14.832 --> 00:35:17.074 And no matter what you order on there, they say it's available. 684 00:35:17.234 --> 00:35:18.835 You don't worry, they've got it. 685 00:35:19.095 --> 00:35:19.795 Very good. 686 00:35:20.536 --> 00:35:24.700 Wayne, we've been speaking on radio and television and podcasts for so many years. 687 00:35:24.720 --> 00:35:27.442 Thank you so much for your unstinting support. 688 00:35:27.882 --> 00:35:31.684 And although it's a duty of yours, I know you do enjoy it sometimes as well. 689 00:35:31.684 --> 00:35:36.886 So thank you very much and very good luck with your retirement and your cars and 690 00:35:36.886 --> 00:35:38.886 enjoying yourself. 691 00:35:38.886 --> 00:35:43.749 As for you, David, I'll be pestering you again on Thursday for the five o'clock 692 00:35:43.749 --> 00:35:43.769 shadow. 693 00:35:44.169 --> 00:35:50.352 And maybe in 13 years time when you're 90, you might actually retire as well, 694 00:35:50.392 --> 00:35:54.433 which will also be a very, very sad day and we'll get Wayne back to reminisce 695 00:35:54.433 --> 00:35:56.433 again. 696 00:35:56.433 --> 00:35:58.433 Conversation. 697 00:35:58.433 --> 00:36:00.456 because I've got three of my grandchildren running wild here because we're looking 698 00:36:00.456 --> 00:36:02.456 after them. 699 00:36:02.456 --> 00:36:04.456 We're halfway looking after them. 700 00:36:04.456 --> 00:36:05.578 And I've got to find an excuse to not get out of this room. 701 00:36:05.598 --> 00:36:07.259 Sorry, your excuse has run out, David. 702 00:36:07.619 --> 00:36:14.182 You've had 35 minutes of it, so off you go and be a good grandfather, just like you 703 00:36:14.182 --> 00:36:16.182 are with the young ladies at airports. 704 00:36:16.182 --> 00:36:20.865 I must just say thank you very, very much, and I really appreciate it, David, as 705 00:36:20.865 --> 00:36:22.865 well, all the kind words. 706 00:36:22.865 --> 00:36:23.346 And I will also say that. 707 00:36:24.466 --> 00:36:25.987 I mean, we've had a lot of fun. 708 00:36:26.587 --> 00:36:28.568 We've had a lot of fun over the years. 709 00:36:29.329 --> 00:36:35.692 And I mean, that is one of the things that I'm going to miss is talking to people 710 00:36:35.692 --> 00:36:37.692 about investments. 711 00:36:37.692 --> 00:36:39.054 And you never know what might happen into the future. 712 00:36:39.074 --> 00:36:40.815 But for now, you know, 713 00:36:40.916 --> 00:36:46.159 being out of the investment field and sort of not being directly involved in it, 714 00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:48.740 I think this is the best decision for me. 715 00:36:49.460 --> 00:36:51.962 But, you know, as you said, you never know what happens. 716 00:36:52.310 --> 00:36:54.911 Well, whatever happens, we'll be here for you, Wayne. 717 00:36:54.931 --> 00:36:59.493 Wayne McCurry, formerly F&B Wealth and Investment, and now a gentleman of 718 00:36:59.493 --> 00:36:59.753 leisure, 719 00:36:59.753 --> 00:37:02.094 David Shapiro from Sastron Securities in Johannesburg. 720 00:37:02.094 --> 00:37:04.415 And that was a special edition of Shapiro World. 721 00:37:04.875 --> 00:37:11.818 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and 722 00:37:11.818 --> 00:37:13.818 various contributors and do not reflect the policy, 723 00:37:13.818 --> 00:37:16.340 position, or opinion of any other agency, organization, employer, 724 00:37:16.680 --> 00:37:20.522 or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 725 00:37:20.982 --> 00:37:27.945 Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the position of any other 726 00:37:27.945 --> 00:37:29.945 entity other than the speaker or the author. 727 00:37:29.945 --> 00:37:33.428 And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to 728 00:37:33.428 --> 00:37:33.527 change, 729 00:37:33.708 --> 00:37:36.269 revision and rethinking at any time. 730 00:37:36.569 --> 00:37:38.990 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.