WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.412 --> 00:00:05.193 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams. 2 00:00:05.193 --> 00:00:08.474 JSC has closed its doors for another day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock shadow. 3 00:00:08.794 --> 00:00:15.456 And as always on a Thursday, I speak to Viv Govender from Ransuisse and David 4 00:00:15.456 --> 00:00:17.456 Shapira from Sasfin Securities, both in Johannesburg. 5 00:00:17.456 --> 00:00:22.618 Now, Viv, I want to start with you because David and I were just chatting off air and 6 00:00:22.618 --> 00:00:24.618 see the S&Ps down about 1.4, 1.5%. 7 00:00:24.618 --> 00:00:29.660 And from what I can gather from the mainstream commentary, people like CNN and 8 00:00:29.660 --> 00:00:31.660 CNBC, it's because the big... 9 00:00:31.660 --> 00:00:35.782 tech stocks are spending too much on R&D or projected to on AI. 10 00:00:35.922 --> 00:00:42.825 Now, I don't know if this is a valid argument or if it is a valid argument, 11 00:00:42.825 --> 00:00:44.825 then it presents a buying opportunity because they've got to do so. 12 00:00:44.825 --> 00:00:46.967 What is your assessment of the situation of the tech stocks and their results this 13 00:00:46.967 --> 00:00:47.247 week? 14 00:00:47.867 --> 00:00:54.710 Look, I would say it's the $640 billion question, you know, trillion dollar 15 00:00:54.710 --> 00:00:54.970 question, 16 00:00:54.970 --> 00:00:55.410 however you want to call it. 17 00:00:56.411 --> 00:00:59.212 It is the question of whether or not AI is going to scale. 18 00:00:59.956 --> 00:01:00.656 into the future. 19 00:01:00.656 --> 00:01:01.797 We don't know that for certain yet. 20 00:01:02.238 --> 00:01:07.742 We have people like some coming out and saying that new models are much, much 21 00:01:07.742 --> 00:01:09.742 better and it's going very well. 22 00:01:09.742 --> 00:01:11.742 But we don't know. 23 00:01:11.742 --> 00:01:13.742 We haven't seen them. 24 00:01:13.742 --> 00:01:15.742 Now, if it does scale, no, this is not overspending. 25 00:01:15.742 --> 00:01:17.742 This is pretty much what a logical person would do. 26 00:01:17.742 --> 00:01:19.742 We're talking about the greatest technology ever. 27 00:01:19.742 --> 00:01:20.531 It's like trying to say, should you save money on warships during a war? 28 00:01:21.011 --> 00:01:22.732 No, you need them and you need to get them. 29 00:01:23.132 --> 00:01:24.633 And the one that has the most is going to win. 30 00:01:24.653 --> 00:01:25.834 The one that has the least is going to lose. 31 00:01:26.154 --> 00:01:26.995 And so you're just going to spend. 32 00:01:27.315 --> 00:01:28.196 If I ever had this stuff. 33 00:01:28.520 --> 00:01:35.145 does stall, if there is some black wall that we're going to hit, that's going to 34 00:01:35.145 --> 00:01:37.145 mean that more computing power and more data does not mean a better 35 00:01:37.145 --> 00:01:39.145 outcome. 36 00:01:39.145 --> 00:01:42.449 Then yeah, we're talking the biggest infrastructure spend, these companies are 37 00:01:42.449 --> 00:01:44.449 doing the biggest infrastructure spend in history. 38 00:01:44.449 --> 00:01:48.373 There's nothing that's ever been done in the next like in a period of a year or so 39 00:01:48.373 --> 00:01:50.373 that like these guys are planning for the next year. 40 00:01:50.373 --> 00:01:55.298 Any country or anything, including building power systems, including going to 41 00:01:55.298 --> 00:01:57.298 the moon, including building highway systems, nothing like that. 42 00:01:57.298 --> 00:01:58.180 So it all depends on whether or not the technology is going to... 43 00:01:58.300 --> 00:01:59.000 bear fruit. 44 00:01:59.260 --> 00:02:00.761 And at the moment, I don't know. 45 00:02:01.141 --> 00:02:04.282 I could just look at the tea leaves, but I don't have information saying whether or 46 00:02:04.282 --> 00:02:04.321 not that's true or not. 47 00:02:04.662 --> 00:02:05.362 Okay. 48 00:02:05.362 --> 00:02:06.482 What about the actual results themselves? 49 00:02:06.542 --> 00:02:09.123 I'll stay with you on this one, Viv, before going to David. 50 00:02:09.383 --> 00:02:14.464 The actual results without the projected AI spend in the future, were there any 51 00:02:14.464 --> 00:02:16.464 surprises? 52 00:02:16.464 --> 00:02:19.346 I noticed Uber got a bit of a whack today, but I don't call that big tech, really. 53 00:02:19.386 --> 00:02:20.706 What about the other ones? 54 00:02:21.886 --> 00:02:23.347 Look, I mean, the results are reasonably good. 55 00:02:23.347 --> 00:02:24.927 I mean, they were beating expectations. 56 00:02:24.927 --> 00:02:26.688 They were not... 57 00:02:26.688 --> 00:02:27.408 I just couldn't stop. 58 00:02:27.708 --> 00:02:28.429 looking terribly bad. 59 00:02:28.429 --> 00:02:33.451 I mean, some of the stuff that came out, even if you look at Meta, right, for 60 00:02:33.451 --> 00:02:35.451 instance, look at Meta for the last five days. 61 00:02:35.451 --> 00:02:37.451 It's basically flat. 62 00:02:37.451 --> 00:02:41.556 One of the reasons that the stock basically is down is because it came after 63 00:02:41.556 --> 00:02:43.556 the Google numbers, which were really good, you know, and the Google numbers, 64 00:02:43.556 --> 00:02:45.618 or let me say alphabet numbers, apologies, were really good. 65 00:02:45.638 --> 00:02:48.360 And therefore, the market actually pushed the price up. 66 00:02:48.580 --> 00:02:50.241 And you look at the same thing with Microsoft as well. 67 00:02:50.561 --> 00:02:56.545 Over the last five days, you know, or the last week or so, this The share price is 68 00:02:56.545 --> 00:02:58.545 not that bad. 69 00:02:58.545 --> 00:03:00.545 The article is falling at the moment. 70 00:03:00.545 --> 00:03:02.545 It is, you know, 71 00:03:02.545 --> 00:03:06.150 it's after a significant rally so far over the last little while. 72 00:03:07.311 --> 00:03:09.092 I think these results are reasonable. 73 00:03:09.112 --> 00:03:09.932 They're not terrible. 74 00:03:10.473 --> 00:03:15.636 But the market basically, I think, like you said, is scared by the expenditure 75 00:03:15.636 --> 00:03:17.636 into the future, as well as some fears about, you know, 76 00:03:17.636 --> 00:03:19.078 revenues coming in as well from these new technologies. 77 00:03:19.498 --> 00:03:20.198 Okay. 78 00:03:20.198 --> 00:03:21.519 David, were you happy with the numbers? 79 00:03:21.519 --> 00:03:22.920 You were heavily invested in tech. 80 00:03:23.476 --> 00:03:25.197 I think the numbers are brilliant. 81 00:03:25.617 --> 00:03:31.339 I mean, if you look at it in absolute terms, I mean, if you look at the number, 82 00:03:31.339 --> 00:03:33.339 the earnings, 83 00:03:33.339 --> 00:03:37.962 the amount of cash that they're generating, what's flowing to the bottom 84 00:03:37.962 --> 00:03:39.962 line, what they have and are able to spend, 85 00:03:39.962 --> 00:03:41.962 I think it's incredible. 86 00:03:41.962 --> 00:03:46.726 I think I have more faith in the people running the businesses than the chaps who 87 00:03:46.726 --> 00:03:48.726 are writing the reports, you know, 88 00:03:48.726 --> 00:03:49.627 who sit and who are not quite sure what's up. 89 00:03:49.627 --> 00:03:50.628 This is their industry. 90 00:03:51.160 --> 00:03:57.525 But what's also quite significant, Lindsay, is that if you start to look at 91 00:03:57.525 --> 00:03:59.525 the multiples, 92 00:03:59.525 --> 00:04:02.329 and I'm not a multiple person, you know, I like to buy it on the story. 93 00:04:02.429 --> 00:04:06.653 But, I mean, if you look at Alphabet, if you go one year forward, 94 00:04:06.693 --> 00:04:11.056 I think their P-E ratio is down at around about 20. 95 00:04:11.577 --> 00:04:13.818 You know, even on the current numbers, I think it's 23. 96 00:04:13.878 --> 00:04:17.581 This has come from something like 36 or 35, 36. 97 00:04:17.641 --> 00:04:19.163 I don't know what the averages are. 98 00:04:19.903 --> 00:04:20.784 But, yeah. 99 00:04:21.004 --> 00:04:27.387 I think, you know, if you go forward, even on NVIDIA, you start to look, it's coming 100 00:04:27.387 --> 00:04:29.387 down to 46, 101 00:04:29.387 --> 00:04:31.387 and we haven't seen the results yet. 102 00:04:31.387 --> 00:04:36.412 So you're getting into value territory regardless of what you believe is the 103 00:04:36.412 --> 00:04:38.412 right amount to 104 00:04:38.412 --> 00:04:40.412 be spending. 105 00:04:40.412 --> 00:04:42.412 And this is the build stage. 106 00:04:42.412 --> 00:04:44.412 You know, the next stage comes is monetization. 107 00:04:44.412 --> 00:04:46.412 And you can't build. 108 00:04:46.412 --> 00:04:48.412 You can't have monetization if you're not building. 109 00:04:48.412 --> 00:04:52.705 So I'm not, I just think that we live in an industry where it's like a betting 110 00:04:52.705 --> 00:04:52.825 shop. 111 00:04:52.886 --> 00:04:55.307 You know, it's super bets, it's Hollywood bets. 112 00:04:56.608 --> 00:05:02.091 I just think everybody expects too much, too soon, too fast, and on a straight 113 00:05:02.091 --> 00:05:02.110 line. 114 00:05:02.451 --> 00:05:06.953 You know, you're never going to get an industry like this developing on a 115 00:05:06.953 --> 00:05:08.953 straight line. 116 00:05:08.953 --> 00:05:14.097 It's almost impossible that every quarter on quarter is going to be perfect and 117 00:05:14.097 --> 00:05:16.097 going to get what the 118 00:05:16.097 --> 00:05:18.097 analysts expect. 119 00:05:18.097 --> 00:05:21.594 I just, sometimes you've got to take a step backwards and say, look, these 120 00:05:21.594 --> 00:05:23.594 businesses, I mean, 121 00:05:23.594 --> 00:05:28.440 if you take away all the narratives and the descriptions and everything and see 122 00:05:28.440 --> 00:05:30.440 what their earnings are, 123 00:05:30.440 --> 00:05:36.226 when they're increasing their earnings, you know, whether in double digits or 124 00:05:36.226 --> 00:05:38.226 revenues by 30 odd percent or whatever, 125 00:05:38.226 --> 00:05:40.350 15, 16, 20 percent, I mean, this is incredible. 126 00:05:41.090 --> 00:05:43.072 These are mammoth, mammoth businesses. 127 00:05:43.072 --> 00:05:45.554 So I just shrug my eyes, you know. 128 00:05:46.142 --> 00:05:49.625 shake my head and say, move on, okay, let this run its way. 129 00:05:49.705 --> 00:05:50.706 Just one word, though. 130 00:05:51.006 --> 00:05:51.706 Yes. 131 00:05:51.787 --> 00:05:53.428 Sorry, I don't want to take away from Viv, 132 00:05:53.508 --> 00:05:59.213 but not in any respect disagreeing with him. 133 00:05:59.573 --> 00:06:01.535 I think this has a lot to do with the election. 134 00:06:01.855 --> 00:06:04.677 I think there's such a nervousness. 135 00:06:04.697 --> 00:06:08.400 You know, Lindsay, if you think what we're going through when I watch the headlines, 136 00:06:08.540 --> 00:06:15.386 you can understand why people are just so super sensitive and so worried about 137 00:06:15.386 --> 00:06:17.386 what's going to transpire. 138 00:06:17.386 --> 00:06:18.636 It has to have some impact on sentiment. 139 00:06:19.217 --> 00:06:22.179 And then we've had the budget in the UK. 140 00:06:22.760 --> 00:06:25.162 We've had a faltering Europe. 141 00:06:25.402 --> 00:06:27.024 We have a China that's not growing. 142 00:06:27.224 --> 00:06:31.908 When you put it all up together, no wonder sentiment is like a test. 143 00:06:31.988 --> 00:06:34.090 You don't feel good at all about anything. 144 00:06:34.390 --> 00:06:37.312 There was a very interesting, I don't know what to believe. 145 00:06:38.233 --> 00:06:41.156 They've had 45, 50 million people already vote, I think. 146 00:06:41.556 --> 00:06:43.478 And someone did a survey. 147 00:06:43.986 --> 00:06:46.427 And it's trending on X at the moment. 148 00:06:46.467 --> 00:06:48.908 It's called, it's hashtag Harris surge. 149 00:06:49.608 --> 00:06:51.549 And look, some would, 150 00:06:51.889 --> 00:06:58.352 she's 63% versus 37% Trump in three quite important states. 151 00:06:58.372 --> 00:07:03.574 And I didn't really believe it, but there is a suddenly people are saying it's not 152 00:07:03.574 --> 00:07:05.574 as close as you think. 153 00:07:05.574 --> 00:07:08.156 Now, Viv, you gave us an analysis of this a couple of weeks ago when we last spoke. 154 00:07:08.416 --> 00:07:13.038 Have you changed your mind at all about the closeness of the race or whoever you 155 00:07:13.038 --> 00:07:15.038 think might? 156 00:07:15.038 --> 00:07:15.920 be in the White House in a couple of weeks? 157 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:16.620 I saw that poll. 158 00:07:16.620 --> 00:07:19.662 That poll was people that say they've already voted and what do they do? 159 00:07:20.083 --> 00:07:23.465 The problem is right now that Trump voters don't really respond to these votes. 160 00:07:23.905 --> 00:07:27.048 The way you'd look at it is looking at some states like Nevada, for instance, 161 00:07:27.048 --> 00:07:27.147 right? 162 00:07:27.928 --> 00:07:33.832 What they do is they give you an outline as to who's voting and what party they're 163 00:07:33.832 --> 00:07:33.932 voting for. 164 00:07:33.932 --> 00:07:38.355 Not who they're voting for, but like, you know, what party they're voting for. 165 00:07:39.376 --> 00:07:40.657 Or what party they're registered for, rather. 166 00:07:41.858 --> 00:07:42.558 Like you say... 167 00:07:42.558 --> 00:07:43.858 I'm just a Republican and I'm voting. 168 00:07:44.038 --> 00:07:44.779 You know what I mean? 169 00:07:44.779 --> 00:07:46.319 I'm an independent and I'm voting. 170 00:07:46.859 --> 00:07:50.800 Now, if you look at it from that point of view, there's a guy called Ralston, and I 171 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:52.800 follow him quite strongly. 172 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:57.042 And he's got a great blog. 173 00:07:57.902 --> 00:07:59.283 And he goes over these things. 174 00:07:59.323 --> 00:08:06.105 And he's saying that it's looking very bad for the Democrats because the Republicans 175 00:08:06.105 --> 00:08:08.105 are voting in numbers that are quite high. 176 00:08:08.105 --> 00:08:08.285 In the US right now, it's not about convincing anybody. 177 00:08:08.285 --> 00:08:10.486 It's about getting your people to the ballot box. 178 00:08:11.186 --> 00:08:15.428 And if you look at the other voting things, I mean, even places like, I think, 179 00:08:15.428 --> 00:08:17.428 New Jersey, 180 00:08:17.428 --> 00:08:20.830 the Republicans are basically voting on par with the Democrats. 181 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:27.093 And historically, the big advantage the Democrats have is getting the people to 182 00:08:27.093 --> 00:08:29.093 the voting station, getting people to vote. 183 00:08:29.093 --> 00:08:34.816 The question arises, is this huge kind of like a surge for Republican early voting 184 00:08:34.816 --> 00:08:36.816 going to really cannibalize it on Election Day? 185 00:08:36.816 --> 00:08:38.117 But like you said, 50 million plus people have voted already. 186 00:08:38.157 --> 00:08:39.718 So this is already like, you know. 187 00:08:40.338 --> 00:08:42.179 going to be a huge chunk of the total voters. 188 00:08:43.219 --> 00:08:45.640 So, yeah, a couple of things. 189 00:08:45.680 --> 00:08:47.221 Firstly, don't believe the polls. 190 00:08:47.481 --> 00:08:49.822 The reason being is that polls are too narrow. 191 00:08:50.342 --> 00:08:51.583 Everyone 1% are tied. 192 00:08:52.283 --> 00:08:56.545 That's not logical, given the margin of error and stuff, you know what I mean? 193 00:08:57.245 --> 00:09:01.587 And so it makes you believe that the polls have been adjusted by the pollsters to 194 00:09:01.587 --> 00:09:03.587 cover themselves, you know what I mean? 195 00:09:03.587 --> 00:09:05.769 So they're basically saying, oh, it's a tied race, so it's making it close, so 196 00:09:05.769 --> 00:09:07.769 we'll run with the pack. 197 00:09:07.769 --> 00:09:09.951 The second thing is that In terms of the polling guys, 198 00:09:10.391 --> 00:09:14.474 they've changed their methodology from 2016 to 2020. 199 00:09:14.474 --> 00:09:15.174 Okay. 200 00:09:15.314 --> 00:09:16.495 Just to give you guys a bit of a background. 201 00:09:16.555 --> 00:09:19.737 Sorry, this is the wrong person to ask this question. 202 00:09:19.737 --> 00:09:26.540 So if you look at polling in 2016, 2020, 203 00:09:26.580 --> 00:09:28.081 dramatically undercounted Republicans. 204 00:09:28.081 --> 00:09:31.963 2018, 2022, got it very right. 205 00:09:32.564 --> 00:09:33.264 Okay. 206 00:09:33.544 --> 00:09:36.286 There is a strong possibility that when Trump is on the ballot, he... 207 00:09:36.966 --> 00:09:39.188 don't count it properly for whatever reason. 208 00:09:39.708 --> 00:09:46.232 The question arises then is, has enough changed since then that people are not as 209 00:09:46.232 --> 00:09:48.232 ashamed to vote for Trump as they were in the past? 210 00:09:48.232 --> 00:09:50.232 And that's the kind of thing. 211 00:09:50.232 --> 00:09:51.536 Or are they also still giving us these, these, these, these, these lopsided 212 00:09:51.536 --> 00:09:51.656 things? 213 00:09:51.976 --> 00:09:55.218 Now that they had a search stuff, I wouldn't trust that. 214 00:09:55.639 --> 00:10:02.343 I would also would not trust some of the stuff that's saying, you know, massively 215 00:10:02.343 --> 00:10:04.343 ahead, just because of the fact that the, 216 00:10:04.343 --> 00:10:06.106 when you look at the actual places that you have information officially from, 217 00:10:06.686 --> 00:10:13.381 They don't show that there's a massive surge for Harris versus Trump unless a 218 00:10:13.381 --> 00:10:15.381 whole bunch of people that are registered as Republicans 219 00:10:15.381 --> 00:10:17.381 are suddenly voting for Harris. 220 00:10:17.381 --> 00:10:18.282 And that is the only way these numbers are giving a Harris surge. 221 00:10:18.522 --> 00:10:24.585 If the Republicans, people that are basically members of the Republican Party, 222 00:10:24.585 --> 00:10:26.585 just as Republicans, are voting, but they're not voting for Harris. 223 00:10:26.585 --> 00:10:28.585 And I don't know if that's the case here. 224 00:10:28.585 --> 00:10:30.585 Okay, so we've just got to wait a week. 225 00:10:30.585 --> 00:10:32.585 Okay. 226 00:10:32.585 --> 00:10:37.011 And see Donald Trump driving garbage trucks around after he's got off his 757, 227 00:10:37.011 --> 00:10:39.011 which is quite funny. 228 00:10:39.011 --> 00:10:39.071 It was quite clear. 229 00:10:39.071 --> 00:10:42.213 That's because Biden supported it. 230 00:10:42.473 --> 00:10:49.177 The board is garbage. 231 00:10:49.197 --> 00:10:50.017 Yes, I know. 232 00:10:50.057 --> 00:10:50.978 Biden was so stupid, they should look him up. 233 00:10:50.978 --> 00:10:52.078 I mean, really, what a stupid thing to say. 234 00:10:52.078 --> 00:10:54.339 No, but Biden is, is Biden stupid or is Biden sabotaging Harris? 235 00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:55.119 That's the question. 236 00:10:55.520 --> 00:10:57.781 Because this is not the first time he's done something like this to Harris. 237 00:10:58.221 --> 00:11:03.364 Harris had a great, excuse me, Harris had a great talking point because there was a 238 00:11:03.364 --> 00:11:05.364 guy at the Republican 239 00:11:05.364 --> 00:11:07.006 convention or event that made a joke about Puerto Ricans and used the word garbage. 240 00:11:07.727 --> 00:11:14.431 And Biden comes the next day and totally reverses it from being a thing that got a 241 00:11:14.431 --> 00:11:16.431 huge anti-Trump thing to reversing it. 242 00:11:16.431 --> 00:11:19.474 Biden has called press conferences just as Kamala Harris is about to give a speech. 243 00:11:20.155 --> 00:11:20.855 What is that about? 244 00:11:21.156 --> 00:11:23.237 You know, he's not happy with that. 245 00:11:23.778 --> 00:11:26.420 No, his nose is out of joint. 246 00:11:26.420 --> 00:11:27.280 It's marketing. 247 00:11:27.420 --> 00:11:28.120 Definitely. 248 00:11:28.541 --> 00:11:29.241 Oh, well. 249 00:11:29.342 --> 00:11:30.042 Right. 250 00:11:30.182 --> 00:11:33.285 David, only one stock I want to talk about on the JSC today. 251 00:11:33.305 --> 00:11:35.466 It was a stock that you mentioned when we chatted on Monday. 252 00:11:35.707 --> 00:11:39.009 You said something like, I'm not really interested in the stocks like... 253 00:11:39.209 --> 00:11:41.951 British American Tobacco or AB InBev. 254 00:11:41.951 --> 00:11:43.913 AB InBev's numbers were pretty awful today. 255 00:11:44.734 --> 00:11:45.434 Yeah, yeah. 256 00:11:45.875 --> 00:11:46.575 Volumes. 257 00:11:46.695 --> 00:11:53.060 And I think that's a big issue, is that if you look for one point, I think volumes 258 00:11:53.060 --> 00:11:55.060 are coming down. 259 00:11:55.060 --> 00:11:59.385 And it just shows you how difficult it is for these, you know, 260 00:11:59.465 --> 00:12:04.730 large companies to or companies like this in beer or, you know, 261 00:12:04.730 --> 00:12:06.651 in that industry to make any headway. 262 00:12:06.972 --> 00:12:12.671 I'm not a great believer that You know, it's been a theme that I've had for a long 263 00:12:12.671 --> 00:12:14.671 time that, 264 00:12:14.671 --> 00:12:20.094 you know, companies like, you know, who sell beer, they might do okay, but they're 265 00:12:20.094 --> 00:12:22.094 never going to do brilliant. 266 00:12:22.094 --> 00:12:22.695 You know, there's just too much competition. 267 00:12:22.755 --> 00:12:25.056 It's just too complicated around the world. 268 00:12:25.416 --> 00:12:27.737 They might have certain areas in which they do well. 269 00:12:28.337 --> 00:12:31.799 But I think this is just evidence, you know, just evidence of that. 270 00:12:32.199 --> 00:12:36.841 Yes, they might have premium brands doing okay, but it's an industry. 271 00:12:38.058 --> 00:12:44.943 um lindsay people are drinking less they're drinking this alcohol they're 272 00:12:44.943 --> 00:12:46.943 drinking zero zero zero zero beers now i mean the 273 00:12:46.943 --> 00:12:51.789 youth in the uk for example i mean it's a complete i mean it's a generational change 274 00:12:51.789 --> 00:12:53.789 i've yeah and and if you 275 00:12:53.789 --> 00:12:57.815 if you're catching up by catching a zero beer market can't see the point myself but 276 00:12:57.815 --> 00:12:59.815 um if 277 00:12:59.815 --> 00:13:04.761 you can catch the zero beer market then and you get it right and it's a good brand 278 00:13:04.761 --> 00:13:06.761 and it's got a reasonable taste to it then you'll do well but you're quite 279 00:13:06.761 --> 00:13:09.764 right Alcohol consumption is not falling off a cliff, but it's certainly been 280 00:13:09.764 --> 00:13:11.764 reduced from the days when 281 00:13:11.764 --> 00:13:14.046 I first was in university or got my first job. 282 00:13:14.426 --> 00:13:15.787 Everyone was at it all the time. 283 00:13:17.468 --> 00:13:19.409 I just think these well-known brands, 284 00:13:19.729 --> 00:13:25.092 they just haven't got the power that they used to have simply because of change of 285 00:13:25.092 --> 00:13:25.212 habits, 286 00:13:25.532 --> 00:13:30.455 which I think was happening but was accelerated by COVID. 287 00:13:31.035 --> 00:13:34.037 Also, I think, you know, advertising. 288 00:13:34.485 --> 00:13:37.926 There's so many different avenues, and it's so easy to advertise. 289 00:13:38.266 --> 00:13:45.208 You can start your own campaign using YouTube or TikTok or Snap or Instagram or 290 00:13:45.208 --> 00:13:45.408 something. 291 00:13:45.768 --> 00:13:49.389 So that's why I'm going for retailers rather. 292 00:13:49.749 --> 00:13:51.330 I'd say, okay, where do they sell the beers? 293 00:13:51.450 --> 00:13:52.890 You know, Walmart, Costco. 294 00:13:53.010 --> 00:13:55.551 Okay, that's where I'll go because that's where they buy it. 295 00:13:55.551 --> 00:14:02.453 But I think today for manufacturers, I think it's becoming really tough to get 296 00:14:02.453 --> 00:14:04.453 people to, you know, 297 00:14:04.453 --> 00:14:06.453 especially these global brands. 298 00:14:06.453 --> 00:14:11.245 to get the kind of spread and and support that you used to have do you guys want a 299 00:14:11.245 --> 00:14:11.765 bit of a 300 00:14:11.765 --> 00:14:18.209 wilder take on this okay so uh you guys know about uh the the new drugs right like 301 00:14:18.209 --> 00:14:18.468 the week 302 00:14:18.468 --> 00:14:20.270 old bees and stuff yeah 303 00:14:20.410 --> 00:14:27.354 these glp-1 inhibitors right what they do is they reduce appetite and that is why 304 00:14:27.354 --> 00:14:29.354 you eat less you don't have the same attitude you 305 00:14:29.354 --> 00:14:33.557 had before but do you know that studies have been showing that if you take these 306 00:14:33.557 --> 00:14:35.557 drugs right you actually 307 00:14:35.557 --> 00:14:39.879 drink less, you gamble less, you eat less ice cream, you bite your fingernails less. 308 00:14:39.939 --> 00:14:42.019 It reduces these urges, okay? 309 00:14:42.719 --> 00:14:43.740 Look at Starbucks. 310 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:47.221 Look at Unilever's ice cream business, which they sold. 311 00:14:47.881 --> 00:14:54.283 Look at anything that sells anything that's unhealthy, anything people don't 312 00:14:54.283 --> 00:14:56.283 want to do, and you say, okay, how much, 313 00:14:56.283 --> 00:14:58.283 how big an impact can it be having? 314 00:14:58.283 --> 00:14:58.824 Remember, because not everything is evenly spread. 315 00:14:58.904 --> 00:15:02.885 The guys like David, who are basically running marathons, are not drinking a lot, 316 00:15:02.885 --> 00:15:04.885 okay? 317 00:15:04.885 --> 00:15:10.338 Guys that are basically Partly diabetic Or having Diabetes Isolated resistance Are 318 00:15:10.338 --> 00:15:12.338 also more likely 319 00:15:12.338 --> 00:15:14.684 To be heavy drinkers I would think You know what I mean That's probably one of 320 00:15:14.684 --> 00:15:16.684 the Causes of these problems 321 00:15:16.684 --> 00:15:19.092 And if you have These guys on Like you know These drugs, 322 00:15:19.773 --> 00:15:25.675 what are you going to have is that these are the guys that are actually going to 323 00:15:25.675 --> 00:15:27.675 reduce their consumption because the drugs reduce your addictiveness. 324 00:15:27.675 --> 00:15:32.198 So I would bet in the next few years, you'd see things like Starbucks, things 325 00:15:32.198 --> 00:15:34.198 that are in the fast food sector. 326 00:15:34.198 --> 00:15:40.121 McDonald's, the city industries of gambling or alcohol or even tobacco are 327 00:15:40.121 --> 00:15:42.121 all going to see a big 328 00:15:42.121 --> 00:15:44.121 downturn. 329 00:15:44.121 --> 00:15:45.703 And the reason being is that these drugs are coming and they are going to be 330 00:15:45.703 --> 00:15:45.803 prescribed. 331 00:15:46.584 --> 00:15:47.284 And it's like. 332 00:15:47.284 --> 00:15:51.028 significant double-digit percentage of populations in the West. 333 00:15:51.148 --> 00:15:53.890 And the price, of course, has to come down. 334 00:15:53.890 --> 00:15:55.131 They have to be more accessible. 335 00:15:55.131 --> 00:16:00.436 I mean, for example, the NHS in Britain, which is under huge pressure and has been 336 00:16:00.436 --> 00:16:02.436 for many, many years, 337 00:16:02.436 --> 00:16:04.080 can't afford just to dole these things out like M&Ms. 338 00:16:05.301 --> 00:16:06.382 They're not at that point yet. 339 00:16:06.582 --> 00:16:11.146 But as we know, with scale and with advancements, the prices will come down. 340 00:16:11.527 --> 00:16:12.928 And it's a very good point that you make. 341 00:16:13.244 --> 00:16:17.228 I just wonder if any of the side effects, the other side effects, I mean, what else 342 00:16:17.228 --> 00:16:19.228 does it suppress? 343 00:16:19.228 --> 00:16:22.412 Yeah, don't worry about it. 344 00:16:22.412 --> 00:16:23.112 Here's the thing. 345 00:16:23.814 --> 00:16:25.795 The actual cost of making a Zenfic, right? 346 00:16:26.136 --> 00:16:26.836 How much do you think it is? 347 00:16:27.517 --> 00:16:28.217 I don't know. 348 00:16:28.217 --> 00:16:28.778 Tell us. 349 00:16:29.459 --> 00:16:31.601 As low as maybe a dollar a month. 350 00:16:31.601 --> 00:16:32.301 Really? 351 00:16:33.302 --> 00:16:34.002 Really. 352 00:16:34.002 --> 00:16:37.746 That is why Novo Nordisk has this huge, you know, stock increase. 353 00:16:37.746 --> 00:16:39.308 That's why Eli Lilly is doing so well. 354 00:16:39.668 --> 00:16:43.510 The cost of these things is like, I think at the high estimate, it's like $5 a 355 00:16:43.510 --> 00:16:43.890 month. 356 00:16:43.890 --> 00:16:44.550 Okay. 357 00:16:44.550 --> 00:16:46.992 But it's $1 to $5 a month is the cost of making these things. 358 00:16:47.472 --> 00:16:48.453 It is not a case. 359 00:16:48.753 --> 00:16:50.434 It's like, for instance, EpiPens. 360 00:16:50.434 --> 00:16:56.557 If you see EpiPens and they'll cost like a couple thousand rounds or a thousand 361 00:16:56.557 --> 00:16:58.557 rounds for EpiPen, the insulin EpiPen you can buy for like 10 rounds. 362 00:16:58.557 --> 00:17:00.557 Okay. 363 00:17:00.557 --> 00:17:02.557 It's just this markups that they're putting into place here. 364 00:17:02.557 --> 00:17:07.183 So, yes, I do actually think that governments are going to do this because 365 00:17:07.183 --> 00:17:09.183 firstly, you reduce, oh, it's not just, by the way, amazingly, 366 00:17:09.183 --> 00:17:11.183 the chance of Alzheimer's. 367 00:17:11.183 --> 00:17:13.183 goes down dramatically with adipose as well. 368 00:17:13.183 --> 00:17:15.183 There's evidence of that as well. 369 00:17:15.183 --> 00:17:17.183 Oh, spalling. 370 00:17:17.183 --> 00:17:19.183 Spalling, yeah. 371 00:17:19.183 --> 00:17:21.183 Yeah. 372 00:17:21.183 --> 00:17:23.183 Alzheimer's, kidney disease, it's really because most people are too fat. 373 00:17:23.183 --> 00:17:25.183 That's the problem. 374 00:17:25.183 --> 00:17:27.183 Yeah. 375 00:17:27.183 --> 00:17:29.183 It's not about, if you reduce appetite, make people eat less, put everybody on a 376 00:17:29.183 --> 00:17:31.183 diet effectively, a lot of the problems that you have, like obesity goes away, 377 00:17:31.183 --> 00:17:33.183 but also Alzheimer's, also heart disease, also liver problems. 378 00:17:33.183 --> 00:17:35.183 You see what I mean? 379 00:17:35.183 --> 00:17:37.183 So, yeah. 380 00:17:37.183 --> 00:17:38.856 I think this is going to be one of those things like, you know, back in the day, 381 00:17:38.856 --> 00:17:40.856 you know, like the. 382 00:17:40.856 --> 00:17:45.940 for instance, not going to just be a very popular drug, but it's going to actually 383 00:17:45.940 --> 00:17:47.940 change our society functions. 384 00:17:48.561 --> 00:17:52.663 That's very interesting, isn't it? 385 00:17:52.663 --> 00:17:57.166 In fact, Viv, the lead article in The Economist this week is that together with 386 00:17:57.166 --> 00:17:57.186 a briefing, 387 00:17:57.986 --> 00:18:04.170 and it's not often that they would come out and highlight the value of a product 388 00:18:04.170 --> 00:18:06.170 like this, 389 00:18:06.170 --> 00:18:06.671 but they do call it, they don't call it a super drug. 390 00:18:06.731 --> 00:18:08.052 I'm saying it is a super drug. 391 00:18:08.416 --> 00:18:15.141 Because they identify this is real and identify exactly what you've been saying 392 00:18:15.141 --> 00:18:17.141 there about the benefits 393 00:18:17.141 --> 00:18:19.141 that it is going to bring. 394 00:18:19.141 --> 00:18:21.186 Oddly enough, Eli Lilly came out with their numbers, and they were very good. 395 00:18:22.106 --> 00:18:27.470 But there's going to be hiccups along the way, getting it to the market, 396 00:18:29.932 --> 00:18:34.856 covering the issues that you brought out, the national health system, the costs and 397 00:18:34.856 --> 00:18:36.856 so on, etc. 398 00:18:36.856 --> 00:18:41.884 And therefore, you must look at the long effects rather than, oh, Eli Lilly missed 399 00:18:41.884 --> 00:18:43.884 and knocked it 10%. 400 00:18:43.884 --> 00:18:47.949 So I think the trends that you spoke about, both AI and these drugs, 401 00:18:48.329 --> 00:18:49.570 they're there for a long time. 402 00:18:49.610 --> 00:18:50.491 They're going to pursue. 403 00:18:51.091 --> 00:18:52.532 But expect volatility. 404 00:18:52.812 --> 00:18:54.033 Expect this to happen. 405 00:18:54.874 --> 00:19:00.678 You can't, as I said earlier, everybody just wants this nice, smooth ride upwards. 406 00:19:00.838 --> 00:19:01.999 It's not going to work like that. 407 00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:03.860 Business doesn't operate like that. 408 00:19:04.172 --> 00:19:08.734 All right, so let's move on to something a little more tedious, and that's the MTBPS. 409 00:19:08.734 --> 00:19:10.734 And Viv, 410 00:19:10.734 --> 00:19:11.216 you're very good with stats on this one. 411 00:19:11.616 --> 00:19:17.359 It sent me to sleep, actually, but, you know, less income, so wider deficits, all 412 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.359 that sort of thing. 413 00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:22.442 There was a couple of nice points about infrastructure spend and their commitment 414 00:19:22.442 --> 00:19:24.442 to infrastructure, which was good. 415 00:19:24.442 --> 00:19:26.344 But, Viv, anything that caught your eye, or were you like me, rather ambivalent? 416 00:19:27.164 --> 00:19:32.108 One thing that did touch my eye, maybe because I'm not as keen as I should have 417 00:19:32.108 --> 00:19:34.108 been, is like the amount, 418 00:19:34.108 --> 00:19:35.091 the allotment for our operations in the Congo. 419 00:19:35.731 --> 00:19:36.592 You know what I mean? 420 00:19:36.592 --> 00:19:37.292 You guys see that? 421 00:19:37.773 --> 00:19:41.436 Apparently, we have a little kind of a military existence happening in the Congo 422 00:19:41.436 --> 00:19:43.436 for the South Africans. 423 00:19:43.436 --> 00:19:44.038 And I wasn't quite aware of that. 424 00:19:44.659 --> 00:19:47.622 Look, I mean, it's as good as you could expect. 425 00:19:48.542 --> 00:19:54.948 He's basically going towards trying to have, you know, attracting more 426 00:19:54.948 --> 00:19:56.948 investment, you know. 427 00:19:56.948 --> 00:20:01.134 not funding all these extra little SOEs. 428 00:20:02.054 --> 00:20:07.296 Also, you know, kind of cut back on the wageable, you know, which in South Africa, 429 00:20:07.296 --> 00:20:07.376 as you know, 430 00:20:07.376 --> 00:20:14.139 is South African public sector workers are sort of highest paid in the world with 431 00:20:14.139 --> 00:20:16.139 some of the most protection in the world as well. 432 00:20:16.139 --> 00:20:16.180 So that's obviously something to be looked at. 433 00:20:16.600 --> 00:20:17.300 But yeah, overall. 434 00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:24.424 reasonably good but like i said i was surprised by the whole congo thing yes 435 00:20:24.424 --> 00:20:26.424 there are two up there and certainly certainly not 436 00:20:26.424 --> 00:20:29.807 protecting the mines i wouldn't have thought okay uh dollar round is currently 437 00:20:29.807 --> 00:20:31.807 17 438 00:20:31.807 --> 00:20:37.491 67. the british pound against the round is 22 76 euro rand uh that's 1918 euro 439 00:20:37.531 --> 00:20:44.335 dollar 108.55 british pound after its budget um 128.60 what else have we got 440 00:20:44.335 --> 00:20:46.335 here a 441 00:20:46.335 --> 00:20:46.536 gold price it was i think it got to 2800. 442 00:20:46.756 --> 00:20:48.877 a couple of days ago, or very, very close to it. 443 00:20:48.877 --> 00:20:54.081 It's down $50 an ounce today, 2,738, nearly 2% fall. 444 00:20:54.401 --> 00:20:59.285 Platinum is down 1 2 3rds percent, or $17, to $9.96. 445 00:20:59.285 --> 00:21:04.228 And palladium is down 17 as well, to $11.31. 446 00:21:04.228 --> 00:21:09.632 S&P 500 futures, $57.63, which is now down 1 2 3rds percent, 447 00:21:09.632 --> 00:21:11.593 $57.56 actually. 448 00:21:11.974 --> 00:21:12.674 U.S. 449 00:21:12.674 --> 00:21:14.675 10-year Treasury bond yield, 4.32%. 450 00:21:14.695 --> 00:21:15.395 2%. 451 00:21:15.516 --> 00:21:21.701 And the South African 10-year after the MTBPS, 9.47 cents. 452 00:21:21.721 --> 00:21:23.423 So it's had a bad couple of days. 453 00:21:23.843 --> 00:21:26.865 As for oil, it was down 5% on Monday. 454 00:21:26.885 --> 00:21:28.487 It's now up 1.1%. 455 00:21:28.847 --> 00:21:33.111 It's just above 73 now, 73.23. 456 00:21:33.111 --> 00:21:34.612 Actually, 1.5% higher. 457 00:21:35.373 --> 00:21:38.315 So things going on on the energy markets. 458 00:21:38.375 --> 00:21:40.417 Bitcoin has also had a good time a bit of late. 459 00:21:40.817 --> 00:21:44.140 That is just under 71. 460 00:21:45.877 --> 00:21:50.979 David, any stocks on the JSC that you're interested in, down or up? 461 00:21:50.999 --> 00:21:55.360 You know, well, you mentioned the prices of metals. 462 00:21:56.021 --> 00:22:02.203 And again, you know, once more, we've been struggling to call the bottom of a market, 463 00:22:02.203 --> 00:22:04.203 looking at it and saying, oh, no, 464 00:22:04.203 --> 00:22:04.484 with confidence, it's turned up, it looks better. 465 00:22:04.544 --> 00:22:05.925 You know, everything's looking good. 466 00:22:06.305 --> 00:22:07.345 This looks like the bottom. 467 00:22:07.385 --> 00:22:10.046 And then next day comes and we knock back again. 468 00:22:10.487 --> 00:22:13.608 And I'm just looking at some of the, you know, some of the... 469 00:22:13.928 --> 00:22:18.191 The numbers today, Sibania down over nearly 7% as well. 470 00:22:18.611 --> 00:22:23.354 And it's a reflection of that fall in price and also just a bit of nervousness. 471 00:22:23.455 --> 00:22:26.316 Amplats, all of those down quite significantly. 472 00:22:26.377 --> 00:22:30.539 The other one you mentioned was ABM, which is down 6.4%. 473 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:36.904 So another reflection of a response to the results. 474 00:22:37.344 --> 00:22:39.285 Year on year, this hasn't done anything. 475 00:22:39.646 --> 00:22:42.848 Here's a big company, probably one of the biggest on the JSC. 476 00:22:45.497 --> 00:22:49.078 and yet its overall performance has been very sluggish. 477 00:22:50.078 --> 00:22:53.979 I'm trying to look at its overall performance this year as I talk to you, 478 00:22:53.979 --> 00:23:00.861 but it gives you an idea of minus year-to-date, minus 12.5%. 479 00:23:01.461 --> 00:23:03.141 That's ABM on our market. 480 00:23:03.161 --> 00:23:03.882 That's a JSC. 481 00:23:05.522 --> 00:23:12.104 It's the second biggest company by market cap of 2.3 trillion rand, just under BHP. 482 00:23:12.224 --> 00:23:12.924 Gotcha. 483 00:23:13.765 --> 00:23:20.090 Yeah, so it hasn't got that weighting in the index because most of it floats 484 00:23:20.090 --> 00:23:22.090 offshore. 485 00:23:22.090 --> 00:23:24.090 But I mean, it's still big. 486 00:23:24.090 --> 00:23:26.090 We can deal in as many shares as we want. 487 00:23:26.090 --> 00:23:30.979 Yeah, so if you actually look at some of the other miners while I'm talking on 488 00:23:30.979 --> 00:23:31.358 this. 489 00:23:31.358 --> 00:23:34.542 Norden's down 7.2. 490 00:23:34.542 --> 00:23:36.303 Anglo Platinum's down 6%. 491 00:23:36.483 --> 00:23:42.128 We saw Impala Platinum down nearly 6% yesterday after its quarterly production 492 00:23:42.128 --> 00:23:44.128 report. 493 00:23:44.128 --> 00:23:49.674 uh so the yeah the all the platinum miners are coming back they really are on the 494 00:23:49.674 --> 00:23:51.674 upside i've got uh santam up 495 00:23:51.674 --> 00:23:56.660 two and a quarter uh simpson room rest and mice we buy cars at one and a half etc 496 00:23:56.660 --> 00:23:58.660 which is really nice so so 497 00:23:58.660 --> 00:24:02.985 nothing there but david you're going to give us the closing jsc indices and the 498 00:24:02.985 --> 00:24:04.985 value traded if you've got it yeah so 499 00:24:04.985 --> 00:24:06.985 i'll 500 00:24:06.985 --> 00:24:10.892 give you the value traded up for now it's uh 23 billion which is up 501 00:24:12.661 --> 00:24:14.162 on the average that we've had lately. 502 00:24:14.642 --> 00:24:21.047 NASPA is still dominating, but there's been quite a bit of activity recently in 503 00:24:21.047 --> 00:24:21.267 banks. 504 00:24:21.307 --> 00:24:24.049 Always First Rand, Capitec, Standard Bank, 505 00:24:24.349 --> 00:24:29.293 also up there with the value leaders together with some of the gold shares. 506 00:24:29.373 --> 00:24:35.478 But just going to the indices, the all share ended down 1.58%, which is quite a 507 00:24:35.478 --> 00:24:35.917 knock. 508 00:24:36.178 --> 00:24:38.760 It's taken us down to 85385. 509 00:24:40.137 --> 00:24:44.579 The top 40 also down a similar amount, 1.68 at 7.7327. 510 00:24:44.899 --> 00:24:46.800 And then losses right across the board. 511 00:24:47.120 --> 00:24:51.923 It's only that sun time that you mentioned, which propped up non-life 512 00:24:51.923 --> 00:24:53.923 insurers. 513 00:24:53.923 --> 00:24:58.727 So otherwise, the miners took a hammering, led down by the platinum shares, 514 00:24:58.787 --> 00:24:59.867 gold shares, and so on. 515 00:25:00.168 --> 00:25:00.868 Okay. 516 00:25:01.468 --> 00:25:03.649 Right across the board, we've had big losses. 517 00:25:05.362 --> 00:25:08.224 which have come with sentiment in global markets. 518 00:25:08.224 --> 00:25:09.945 This time next week when we chat, gentlemen, 519 00:25:10.045 --> 00:25:15.928 we'll probably know almost definitively who is the next president of the United 520 00:25:15.928 --> 00:25:17.928 States. 521 00:25:17.928 --> 00:25:20.791 Viv, I'm not asking you who you support, I'm just asking you who you think it'll 522 00:25:20.791 --> 00:25:21.171 be. 523 00:25:22.412 --> 00:25:23.953 Personally, I don't know. 524 00:25:24.153 --> 00:25:30.456 The certainty, I think it's possible, but I would not put a certainty down that we 525 00:25:30.456 --> 00:25:32.456 would know by this time next week who the 526 00:25:32.456 --> 00:25:34.456 Chulis president is going to be. 527 00:25:34.456 --> 00:25:36.399 Right now, if you gave me even money and said, who do you bet on, it would be 528 00:25:36.399 --> 00:25:36.799 Trump. 529 00:25:37.260 --> 00:25:38.420 I think he has a slight edge. 530 00:25:38.460 --> 00:25:43.982 Probably most people are putting it like 55, 60, 40, which is not dramatic, but 531 00:25:43.982 --> 00:25:45.982 yeah, it's probably Trump. 532 00:25:45.982 --> 00:25:48.604 But like I said, if you get to say, you know, this time next week guaranteed, I 533 00:25:48.604 --> 00:25:50.604 would say it's not a guaranteed. 534 00:25:50.604 --> 00:25:52.604 I don't know. 535 00:25:52.604 --> 00:25:52.886 We'll have a fair idea. 536 00:25:52.926 --> 00:25:54.147 David, do you agree? 537 00:25:54.887 --> 00:25:58.168 Again, I'm not asking you who you want, because I know who you want, but who will 538 00:25:58.168 --> 00:25:58.528 it be? 539 00:25:58.528 --> 00:25:59.529 Yeah, I know. 540 00:25:59.529 --> 00:26:00.249 I think it will be. 541 00:26:00.269 --> 00:26:01.590 I just have this uneasy. 542 00:26:02.210 --> 00:26:08.434 feeling that he's got the edge and you know why i say that is that when i talk to 543 00:26:08.434 --> 00:26:10.434 rational people you 544 00:26:10.434 --> 00:26:15.199 know when i talk to rational people here i was talking to a client yesterday and 545 00:26:15.259 --> 00:26:18.521 uh and i see how pro-trump they are i 546 00:26:18.541 --> 00:26:25.526 said we got no chance you know that they not turned away by his uh his you know 547 00:26:25.526 --> 00:26:25.626 just 548 00:26:25.866 --> 00:26:32.283 his whole character and what he stands for you know that they should actually support 549 00:26:32.283 --> 00:26:34.283 that I think that scares me. 550 00:26:34.283 --> 00:26:35.764 And I would imagine it's pretty much the same in America. 551 00:26:36.225 --> 00:26:42.068 You know, for whatever reason, they're not influenced by what he does. 552 00:26:42.088 --> 00:26:44.589 You know, they just think he's the right man for America. 553 00:26:44.769 --> 00:26:45.750 I cannot believe it. 554 00:26:46.210 --> 00:26:49.932 And Lindsay, for me to see him on the White House steps, I don't know. 555 00:26:50.372 --> 00:26:51.533 I don't know how I'm going to live it. 556 00:26:51.653 --> 00:26:53.674 I don't know how I'm going to live through it. 557 00:26:53.674 --> 00:26:58.837 I genuinely believe you because it's affecting me quite badly, the fact that a 558 00:26:58.837 --> 00:27:00.837 man could get in there. 559 00:27:00.837 --> 00:27:02.837 But let's not speculate. 560 00:27:02.837 --> 00:27:04.837 We'll speculate. 561 00:27:04.837 --> 00:27:06.837 Next week, we'll have a decent enough idea. 562 00:27:06.837 --> 00:27:08.837 But gentlemen, thank you very much for your time as always. 563 00:27:08.837 --> 00:27:10.606 David Shapiro is from Satsford and Securities with Governor from Grand Swiss, 564 00:27:10.606 --> 00:27:12.606 both from Johannesburg. 565 00:27:12.606 --> 00:27:14.606 And that was the five o'clock shadow. 566 00:27:14.606 --> 00:27:19.774 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of Lindsay Williams and 567 00:27:19.774 --> 00:27:21.774 various contributors and do not reflect the policy, 568 00:27:21.774 --> 00:27:23.517 position or opinion of any other agency, organisation, 569 00:27:23.858 --> 00:27:28.482 employer or company associated with StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 570 00:27:28.942 --> 00:27:35.907 Assumptions made on the analyses are not reflective of the position of any other 571 00:27:35.907 --> 00:27:37.907 entity other than the speaker or the author. 572 00:27:37.907 --> 00:27:41.390 And since we are critically thinking human beings, these views are always subject to 573 00:27:41.390 --> 00:27:41.490 change, 574 00:27:41.670 --> 00:27:44.232 revision and rethinking at any time. 575 00:27:44.532 --> 00:27:46.934 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.