WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.404 --> 00:00:03.127 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast 2 00:00:03.407 --> 00:00:05.407 with Lindsay Williams. 3 00:00:05.409 --> 00:00:07.891 The JSC has closed its doors for another day, 4 00:00:07.951 --> 00:00:10.833 so it's time for the 5 o'clock shadow with David Shapiro from 5 00:00:10.913 --> 00:00:13.736 Sasson Securities and Viv Govender from Rands 6 00:00:13.816 --> 00:00:16.779 Swiss, both in Johannesburg. And 7 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:20.362 Viv, I'm going to start with you with economics now because we've had 8 00:00:20.362 --> 00:00:23.244 the ECB cutting rates by a quarter of a percent to 9 00:00:23.264 --> 00:00:25.264 three and a half percent. 10 00:00:24.005 --> 00:00:26.868 It's almost like the supporting act for the Fed next 11 00:00:26.968 --> 00:00:28.968 week. 12 00:00:27.712 --> 00:00:30.654 We've had US inflation data coming out this week at 13 00:00:30.714 --> 00:00:33.396 the target rate of 2.5%, 14 00:00:33.536 --> 00:00:35.536 the Fed's target rate, that is. 15 00:00:35.418 --> 00:00:38.240 We've got China stocks down at around about 16 00:00:38.300 --> 00:00:40.300 four and a half year lows. 17 00:00:39.721 --> 00:00:41.882 So an awful lot going on, Viv. 18 00:00:41.942 --> 00:00:43.942 How do you assess it all? 19 00:00:43.363 --> 00:00:46.225 Well, I look at the oil price, just as Bill aside. 20 00:00:46.826 --> 00:00:48.826 Red crude is about $70 a barrel. 21 00:00:48.367 --> 00:00:50.367 You know what I mean? 22 00:00:50.188 --> 00:00:52.890 And this is despite the fact that most of the things you look at in terms of 23 00:00:53.870 --> 00:00:55.870 what supply looks like. 24 00:00:56.308 --> 00:00:58.849 doesn't seem to be that bad for the oil price. 25 00:00:59.149 --> 00:01:01.149 I think it's the fear around what's happening in 26 00:01:01.750 --> 00:01:03.750 demand. 27 00:01:02.330 --> 00:01:05.210 I think there's real fear that the 28 00:01:05.271 --> 00:01:07.271 Fed waited too long. 29 00:01:07.011 --> 00:01:09.792 I think that we are seeing signs that the global economy 30 00:01:09.872 --> 00:01:11.872 might be a bit weaker than we had hoped. 31 00:01:11.832 --> 00:01:14.373 And we had the Japanese GDP that was coming out earlier this week 32 00:01:14.813 --> 00:01:16.813 that worked great as well. 33 00:01:17.054 --> 00:01:19.054 And look at 34 00:01:18.134 --> 00:01:20.995 Germany, the problems they're having and how that's translating 35 00:01:20.995 --> 00:01:23.596 into issues as well in our country. 36 00:01:24.636 --> 00:01:26.636 I think... 37 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:28.382 There's a serious danger that we are going to have a bad period of 38 00:01:28.382 --> 00:01:30.664 time because we may just have waited too long. 39 00:01:30.664 --> 00:01:32.664 And remember, when it comes to monetary policy, 40 00:01:32.645 --> 00:01:34.787 any economist will tell you that there's a lag in monetary policy. 41 00:01:35.187 --> 00:01:37.187 Some say it's a year, some say it's two years, 42 00:01:37.168 --> 00:01:39.168 but it's more than six months. 43 00:01:39.029 --> 00:01:41.029 You start cutting interest rates right now, 44 00:01:40.591 --> 00:01:43.152 you're going to get the effects coming to you by the middle of next year. 45 00:01:44.493 --> 00:01:47.055 And in that period of time, you could easily have got into a recession. 46 00:01:47.515 --> 00:01:49.515 So, yeah, 47 00:01:48.096 --> 00:01:50.638 I think we are in real danger of having a 48 00:01:50.698 --> 00:01:53.560 slowdown because the Federal Reserve and the 49 00:01:53.580 --> 00:01:55.580 ECB... 50 00:01:54.340 --> 00:01:56.601 We just have waited a bit too long to start cutting interest rates. 51 00:01:57.041 --> 00:01:59.102 David will attest to this, Viv, because 52 00:01:59.622 --> 00:02:01.622 I said around about 10, 53 00:02:00.823 --> 00:02:03.384 11 days ago that I'd looked at an oil graph, 54 00:02:03.424 --> 00:02:05.424 Brent crude oil graph. 55 00:02:04.704 --> 00:02:06.704 I looked at it and I thought this just doesn't look right. 56 00:02:07.045 --> 00:02:09.045 And immediately it fell 8 percent. 57 00:02:08.986 --> 00:02:11.807 I mean, immediately it was the next two, three days fell 8 percent. 58 00:02:12.087 --> 00:02:14.468 And that coincided, of course, with OPEC saying, 59 00:02:15.048 --> 00:02:17.749 sorry, revising their demand forecasts. 60 00:02:18.050 --> 00:02:20.351 And when they revise their demand forecast, 61 00:02:20.391 --> 00:02:22.391 they know what their future orders look like. 62 00:02:22.411 --> 00:02:24.411 Let's make no mistake. 63 00:02:24.912 --> 00:02:27.353 And I think that the oil price is a great 64 00:02:27.453 --> 00:02:30.094 indicator of future 65 00:02:30.134 --> 00:02:32.134 economic activity. 66 00:02:31.255 --> 00:02:34.156 And I think that it's a good predictor of either an 67 00:02:34.216 --> 00:02:36.777 economic slowdown or even worse, 68 00:02:37.297 --> 00:02:39.297 recession. 69 00:02:37.858 --> 00:02:40.799 David, I mean, as I've said, we spoke about this. 70 00:02:41.739 --> 00:02:43.739 You know, 71 00:02:42.740 --> 00:02:45.301 there's two parallel 72 00:02:45.541 --> 00:02:48.522 kind of universes in the market at the moment, if that's the right word. 73 00:02:49.482 --> 00:02:52.123 And the one 74 00:02:52.223 --> 00:02:54.223 that is a worry for me. 75 00:02:54.144 --> 00:02:57.086 Because we always know when commodity markets start to 76 00:02:57.246 --> 00:02:59.887 fall and go 77 00:03:00.007 --> 00:03:02.007 down as fast as they have, 78 00:03:01.228 --> 00:03:03.228 and we were talking about this on Monday, 79 00:03:04.070 --> 00:03:07.011 it is a sign that things are slowing down 80 00:03:07.291 --> 00:03:09.291 dramatically. 81 00:03:08.212 --> 00:03:10.973 And there wasn't one area where there was anything 82 00:03:11.314 --> 00:03:13.314 that looked like, you know, 83 00:03:12.855 --> 00:03:14.876 any area where it really looked like booming. 84 00:03:17.097 --> 00:03:19.097 And a lot of it is around China. 85 00:03:18.838 --> 00:03:20.838 So you've got that happening. 86 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:22.719 And the oil price is always... 87 00:03:22.780 --> 00:03:24.780 kind of the mainstay or the proxy. 88 00:03:25.242 --> 00:03:27.242 On the other hand, 89 00:03:26.783 --> 00:03:29.585 you've got this tech universe. 90 00:03:29.625 --> 00:03:32.306 You've got these tech shares just going through the roof and 91 00:03:32.387 --> 00:03:34.387 screeching. 92 00:03:32.967 --> 00:03:35.268 And a lot of that comes from the Goldman 93 00:03:35.349 --> 00:03:38.270 Sachs conference yesterday where 94 00:03:38.731 --> 00:03:40.731 Jensen Wang and all 95 00:03:41.453 --> 00:03:43.453 people spoke. 96 00:03:42.753 --> 00:03:44.755 And they're in a different world. 97 00:03:45.335 --> 00:03:47.335 When you listen to 98 00:03:46.376 --> 00:03:49.258 Larry Ellison talking about the demand and 99 00:03:49.318 --> 00:03:52.280 where things are going, and this is going to last decades. 100 00:03:52.684 --> 00:03:55.206 You know, you say, well, how do we match the two? 101 00:03:56.147 --> 00:03:58.147 You know, there's nothing in between. 102 00:03:57.788 --> 00:04:00.410 There's just clear area between these two 103 00:04:00.490 --> 00:04:02.490 different markets. 104 00:04:02.051 --> 00:04:04.973 And so I'm trying to, in my own mind, 105 00:04:05.033 --> 00:04:07.033 reconcile the two. 106 00:04:06.154 --> 00:04:08.154 I'm saying, okay, I'm happy. 107 00:04:07.955 --> 00:04:10.737 I love the way that tech shares have rebounded, 108 00:04:10.777 --> 00:04:12.959 and even today they continue to go up. 109 00:04:14.600 --> 00:04:16.802 Jensen Wang was telling about the demand 110 00:04:17.662 --> 00:04:19.804 for black, what's it black oil chips? 111 00:04:20.200 --> 00:04:22.582 And also the TSM are going to be producing them, 112 00:04:22.862 --> 00:04:25.625 which means ASML is going to benefit and blah, blah, 113 00:04:25.705 --> 00:04:27.705 blah. 114 00:04:26.105 --> 00:04:28.567 And things just turned around wildly, 115 00:04:28.967 --> 00:04:30.967 which thrills me. 116 00:04:30.269 --> 00:04:32.671 But on the other hand, I look and I say, OK, 117 00:04:32.931 --> 00:04:35.573 so how do I look at this together with 118 00:04:35.873 --> 00:04:38.556 the rest of the market, which is not quite reacting? 119 00:04:39.176 --> 00:04:41.478 And you can always tell when you watch the Dow. 120 00:04:41.698 --> 00:04:44.380 I always look at the Dow because the Dow is made up of 121 00:04:44.821 --> 00:04:46.821 different kinds of stocks. 122 00:04:46.102 --> 00:04:48.464 You know, it's not heavily weighted towards. 123 00:04:48.924 --> 00:04:50.924 any particular sector. 124 00:04:50.869 --> 00:04:53.095 And, you know, even if you look at the Dow yesterday, 125 00:04:53.135 --> 00:04:55.135 at one stage... 126 00:04:54.397 --> 00:04:57.259 it was like 29 down one up you know 127 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.080 and then as the day progressed it kind of settled it's settled 128 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:03.482 so so yeah lindsay you know 129 00:05:03.482 --> 00:05:06.404 we we've got these two different markets well it's two different 130 00:05:06.424 --> 00:05:09.265 worlds actually david because i think viv couldn't come in on 131 00:05:09.285 --> 00:05:11.887 this one because your world viv world 132 00:05:12.607 --> 00:05:15.568 it's a different world to main street world and 133 00:05:15.629 --> 00:05:18.570 dow world and s p world i mean it 134 00:05:18.630 --> 00:05:21.592 doesn't matter if there's a recession the fact is that the 135 00:05:21.612 --> 00:05:24.493 future is these incredible chips And Viv, 136 00:05:24.793 --> 00:05:27.775 you're almost cocooned in the space that you've 137 00:05:27.875 --> 00:05:29.875 chosen to analyze so well. 138 00:05:31.057 --> 00:05:33.057 Yeah, more than that. 139 00:05:32.458 --> 00:05:34.458 I mean, 140 00:05:33.178 --> 00:05:36.060 I think that it doesn't matter what the rest of the world could 141 00:05:36.060 --> 00:05:38.060 do. 142 00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:38.721 You could put every single of the negatives that we have out there, 143 00:05:39.081 --> 00:05:41.863 declining populations, you know, rounded deficits and blah, blah, 144 00:05:41.863 --> 00:05:43.863 blah. 145 00:05:42.483 --> 00:05:45.345 If AI is real, those things blow away like, you know, dust in the wind. 146 00:05:45.385 --> 00:05:47.385 It's like nothing. 147 00:05:45.985 --> 00:05:47.985 It doesn't matter at all. 148 00:05:48.206 --> 00:05:50.206 Robots will take care of the population. 149 00:05:50.388 --> 00:05:52.789 Increased productivity will take care of the deficits. 150 00:05:53.429 --> 00:05:55.530 The example I'd use here, really interesting, 151 00:05:55.550 --> 00:05:57.651 I saw a recent interview with Sergey Brin, 152 00:05:58.011 --> 00:06:00.011 the co-founder of Google, right? 153 00:06:00.212 --> 00:06:02.212 That man has, 154 00:06:01.012 --> 00:06:03.773 I think he has like a massively high chance of getting Parkinson's. 155 00:06:04.394 --> 00:06:06.394 So we're talking about somebody that has an illness. 156 00:06:06.375 --> 00:06:08.375 I don't think he's ill at the moment. 157 00:06:07.675 --> 00:06:09.675 I think genetically his ex-wife's 158 00:06:10.356 --> 00:06:12.517 sister runs 23andMe, you know, the DNA place. 159 00:06:13.177 --> 00:06:15.718 And apparently he has like a Parkinson's issue 160 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.079 that might come and like, you know, get him later in life. 161 00:06:18.079 --> 00:06:20.901 But so he's basically, you know, 162 00:06:21.121 --> 00:06:23.121 obviously... 163 00:06:21.941 --> 00:06:23.941 in his mind to be on borrowed time. 164 00:06:23.502 --> 00:06:25.502 He's working full-time again at Google. 165 00:06:25.443 --> 00:06:27.443 You know, he retired basically. 166 00:06:26.623 --> 00:06:28.623 He's not back working full-time at Google. 167 00:06:28.484 --> 00:06:30.484 Why? 168 00:06:29.184 --> 00:06:31.725 Because he saw AI coming about and he's so, you know, 169 00:06:31.765 --> 00:06:33.765 enamored by the thing. 170 00:06:33.046 --> 00:06:35.046 He's working every day at Google. 171 00:06:34.927 --> 00:06:36.927 Matt has unlimited money, unlimited, 172 00:06:37.088 --> 00:06:39.088 a very limited time. 173 00:06:38.528 --> 00:06:40.528 And he's using that time to work. 174 00:06:40.509 --> 00:06:43.450 So it just shows you the level of optimism 175 00:06:43.490 --> 00:06:46.332 that there is around this particular sector at the moment. 176 00:06:46.772 --> 00:06:49.073 You see, and also, I mean, the confidence it's giving to people. 177 00:06:49.469 --> 00:06:51.791 You've seen Mark Zuckerberg says he 178 00:06:52.231 --> 00:06:54.513 apologizing to Congress was one of his bigger mistakes. 179 00:06:55.934 --> 00:06:58.756 He's saying that his days of apologizing are over. 180 00:06:59.056 --> 00:07:01.237 The confidence that's coming for you to be able to say that 181 00:07:01.938 --> 00:07:03.938 as Facebook CEO, 182 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:06.801 I think the tech sector right now really 183 00:07:06.881 --> 00:07:09.483 believes that they are on the verge of a 184 00:07:09.643 --> 00:07:11.643 really big change in the world. 185 00:07:12.025 --> 00:07:14.025 And so that's why they're pumping all this money in. 186 00:07:15.027 --> 00:07:17.027 Unfortunately, it does not work out. 187 00:07:16.288 --> 00:07:18.288 There's massive problems. 188 00:07:18.109 --> 00:07:20.109 Not just we're talking about demographics, 189 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:22.092 we're talking about debt issues, 190 00:07:22.152 --> 00:07:24.894 Japan, China, you could name them all. 191 00:07:25.334 --> 00:07:27.334 Okay. 192 00:07:25.715 --> 00:07:27.715 But anyway, I think you'll agree that there are, 193 00:07:27.636 --> 00:07:30.038 David called them parallel universes, and they are. 194 00:07:30.598 --> 00:07:32.960 There's one stock market world, and there's another. 195 00:07:33.140 --> 00:07:35.922 There's one tech world, and there's the real economy, 196 00:07:36.042 --> 00:07:38.042 which isn't touched by, 197 00:07:37.703 --> 00:07:40.345 mostly not touched by the AI world yet. 198 00:07:40.405 --> 00:07:42.405 It is touched, 199 00:07:41.106 --> 00:07:44.008 but not quite as much as it will be in the 200 00:07:44.028 --> 00:07:46.028 future, I'm sure. 201 00:07:45.549 --> 00:07:48.472 David, I want to come to you now on the local stuff. 202 00:07:48.892 --> 00:07:51.735 Truist, Bell, Sibagni, Discovery today. 203 00:07:52.055 --> 00:07:54.757 Truist was a bit late, so you probably haven't seen that yet. 204 00:07:55.198 --> 00:07:57.520 But Sibagni are having a terrible time, 205 00:07:58.200 --> 00:08:00.200 up 10% today. 206 00:07:59.902 --> 00:08:01.902 Discovery up around about 207 00:08:01.463 --> 00:08:03.825 5%. Any comments that come out of the 208 00:08:03.865 --> 00:08:05.865 analysis, 209 00:08:04.766 --> 00:08:07.509 even though it might be a flimsy analysis for now 210 00:08:07.549 --> 00:08:10.111 anyway, any comments that have come out of those numbers? 211 00:08:11.532 --> 00:08:13.532 Look... 212 00:08:13.237 --> 00:08:16.098 I think Subbanya is so far down and they've 213 00:08:16.158 --> 00:08:18.339 got the balance sheet to get through this. 214 00:08:18.559 --> 00:08:20.559 In other words, 215 00:08:19.100 --> 00:08:21.561 a lot of borrowings there that can help them 216 00:08:21.661 --> 00:08:23.661 overcome the issues. 217 00:08:23.281 --> 00:08:25.362 And I think there must be a lot of praying as well 218 00:08:26.463 --> 00:08:29.404 going on at the same time because I think things look 219 00:08:29.484 --> 00:08:31.484 very flimsy. 220 00:08:31.065 --> 00:08:34.026 I'm going to go backwards a bit as well and say why am I 221 00:08:34.086 --> 00:08:36.086 saying this. 222 00:08:34.926 --> 00:08:37.367 I cannot 223 00:08:38.008 --> 00:08:40.829 understand why Amplitz... 224 00:08:41.009 --> 00:08:43.009 did what they did yesterday. 225 00:08:42.209 --> 00:08:44.209 That was extraordinary, 226 00:08:43.910 --> 00:08:45.910 wasn't it? 227 00:08:45.650 --> 00:08:47.650 And why I say that, Lindsay, 228 00:08:47.071 --> 00:08:49.391 is that if you're going to place 5%, 229 00:08:50.472 --> 00:08:52.992 first of all, 5% is nothing for them from 78. 230 00:08:53.532 --> 00:08:56.273 But what they did by putting the shares on the market 231 00:08:57.133 --> 00:08:59.654 is really whatever 232 00:08:59.754 --> 00:09:01.754 tested. 233 00:09:00.294 --> 00:09:02.294 I mean, 234 00:09:01.034 --> 00:09:03.335 you took down the share price 12%. 235 00:09:03.855 --> 00:09:06.596 You didn't take only for 5% of the company. 236 00:09:06.836 --> 00:09:08.836 But what happened to the other 95%? 237 00:09:09.097 --> 00:09:11.097 You took it down as well. 238 00:09:10.517 --> 00:09:12.678 And you took it into levels that it hasn't been 239 00:09:13.939 --> 00:09:15.940 since COVID, at the depths of COVID. 240 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:18.442 Now, from my point of view, 241 00:09:18.502 --> 00:09:20.502 that was first of all, 242 00:09:19.942 --> 00:09:22.824 I think this was they needed the money. 243 00:09:23.605 --> 00:09:25.605 They needed the money, 244 00:09:24.465 --> 00:09:27.407 so they had to sell off a bangle or a bracelet or 245 00:09:27.407 --> 00:09:29.528 the diamond ring or something at a pawn shop, 246 00:09:30.008 --> 00:09:32.008 P-A-W-N shop. 247 00:09:31.869 --> 00:09:33.869 So for me, 248 00:09:33.891 --> 00:09:36.812 it was an indication of that market 249 00:09:36.932 --> 00:09:38.932 and how fragile. 250 00:09:39.001 --> 00:09:41.843 the platinum counters are at the 251 00:09:41.903 --> 00:09:43.903 moment. 252 00:09:42.343 --> 00:09:44.343 It didn't fill me with confidence. 253 00:09:44.224 --> 00:09:47.026 I know there are traders who make money out of it, etc. 254 00:09:47.346 --> 00:09:49.827 But it also highlighted how flimsy 255 00:09:50.247 --> 00:09:52.929 and difficult it is because to have 256 00:09:52.969 --> 00:09:55.070 placed it at $5.15, 257 00:09:55.070 --> 00:09:57.511 which was way down a huge discount, 258 00:09:57.831 --> 00:09:59.831 was a very troubling... 259 00:10:01.045 --> 00:10:03.306 level and it gives you an idea of what's out there. 260 00:10:03.467 --> 00:10:05.467 Exactly. 261 00:10:03.927 --> 00:10:06.548 So I'm going back to Subania on that basis. 262 00:10:06.569 --> 00:10:08.569 You know, 263 00:10:07.209 --> 00:10:09.951 that's what worries me about the platinum 264 00:10:10.031 --> 00:10:12.031 counters. 265 00:10:10.491 --> 00:10:13.213 Things are, it's going to take some time for, 266 00:10:13.333 --> 00:10:15.333 you know, for this to turn around. 267 00:10:15.754 --> 00:10:18.396 There are a lot of deep value investors out there, David. 268 00:10:18.696 --> 00:10:20.978 You know who they are that are saying this is the 269 00:10:21.058 --> 00:10:23.058 opportunity of a lifetime. 270 00:10:22.819 --> 00:10:24.819 The Anglo-American platinum price. 271 00:10:24.760 --> 00:10:27.602 I think it's closing high in recent years has been 272 00:10:27.663 --> 00:10:29.924 2,250 rand a share. 273 00:10:30.325 --> 00:10:32.325 Yesterday it was 515. 274 00:10:32.527 --> 00:10:34.527 That is a really, really big move. 275 00:10:34.749 --> 00:10:36.749 But, Viv, I don't know what you think about this. 276 00:10:36.670 --> 00:10:38.670 I mean I want to say one thing. 277 00:10:38.292 --> 00:10:41.014 Just, Lindsay, if I was using your money, 278 00:10:41.094 --> 00:10:43.094 I'd be very brave. 279 00:10:42.715 --> 00:10:44.715 Do you know what I mean? 280 00:10:44.517 --> 00:10:46.517 Good luck with that. 281 00:10:45.057 --> 00:10:47.057 I mean, 282 00:10:45.798 --> 00:10:48.560 if you I'm saying if you if it's not my 283 00:10:48.660 --> 00:10:51.603 money, yes, I'll be very brave with yours and say, yeah, 284 00:10:51.603 --> 00:10:54.505 it's a long-term and I'm a deep value investor. 285 00:10:54.505 --> 00:10:56.926 My question to you, David, is this. 286 00:10:56.926 --> 00:10:59.067 Yes, if platinum was gold, I would say, okay, that's fine. 287 00:10:59.067 --> 00:11:01.067 But platinum is something very different. 288 00:11:00.407 --> 00:11:02.968 Platinum is a technological metal that's used. 289 00:11:03.548 --> 00:11:05.969 The largest source of demand for it is this catalytic converter. 290 00:11:06.550 --> 00:11:08.770 And I looked at the market about last year, 291 00:11:09.911 --> 00:11:11.911 and it looked terrible. 292 00:11:10.651 --> 00:11:12.651 Basically, 293 00:11:11.131 --> 00:11:13.913 what's happening is not only do you have electrical vehicles coming in and 294 00:11:13.933 --> 00:11:16.253 replacing the demand for petrol and diesel vehicles, 295 00:11:16.253 --> 00:11:18.754 which is where the demand comes from for catalytic converters. 296 00:11:19.195 --> 00:11:22.116 The second thing is that recycling technology has gotten significantly 297 00:11:21.235 --> 00:11:23.235 better. 298 00:11:22.136 --> 00:11:24.136 So you... 299 00:11:23.016 --> 00:11:25.016 old vehicles, you can pretty much get enough platinum, 300 00:11:25.277 --> 00:11:28.218 or in some cases more platinum than required to build a new vehicle because 301 00:11:28.218 --> 00:11:30.499 of the fact that first-aid recycling is almost like 302 00:11:30.539 --> 00:11:33.121 90% for the newer technologies and 303 00:11:33.481 --> 00:11:36.282 the efficiency of the catalytic converters is significantly higher 304 00:11:36.662 --> 00:11:39.483 and engine sizes are better and it's getting better across the 305 00:11:39.503 --> 00:11:41.503 board. 306 00:11:40.043 --> 00:11:42.224 So you don't even need new platinum to build new vehicles, 307 00:11:42.224 --> 00:11:44.224 you can just recycle the old stuff. 308 00:11:43.965 --> 00:11:46.726 At the same time you don't need as many new vehicles because they're making 309 00:11:46.166 --> 00:11:48.166 electric 310 00:11:46.746 --> 00:11:48.746 vehicles instead. 311 00:11:48.447 --> 00:11:50.447 How does this market survive? 312 00:11:49.848 --> 00:11:51.848 On jewellery? 313 00:11:51.024 --> 00:11:53.024 You know, it isn't, I think, 314 00:11:52.925 --> 00:11:54.925 a feasible thing for platinum. 315 00:11:54.446 --> 00:11:57.348 So, yeah, that's my issue with platinum going forward is that, yeah, 316 00:11:57.368 --> 00:12:00.350 you could say, but, you know, there's obviously it's very cheap and whatever. 317 00:12:00.690 --> 00:12:03.351 But what who's going to buy the stuff and for what are they buying the stuff? 318 00:12:04.012 --> 00:12:06.012 You know, 319 00:12:05.633 --> 00:12:07.633 this leads me to my next question to both of you. 320 00:12:07.934 --> 00:12:09.934 I mean, yesterday I thought to myself, 321 00:12:09.795 --> 00:12:12.697 2250 down to 515. 322 00:12:12.697 --> 00:12:14.697 It's got to be an opportunity. 323 00:12:14.118 --> 00:12:17.059 You know, South Africa is a 76 percent monopoly in the 324 00:12:17.079 --> 00:12:19.079 reserves of. 325 00:12:18.420 --> 00:12:21.362 platinum group metals it's not just platinum it's palladium and rhodium 326 00:12:21.382 --> 00:12:23.382 and all the other ones with the end in um 327 00:12:24.243 --> 00:12:27.005 but i tell you what it's starting to wear 328 00:12:27.145 --> 00:12:30.046 thin a bit this is a great opportunity and david bring 329 00:12:30.086 --> 00:12:32.868 you in on this one because as you said if it was my 330 00:12:32.948 --> 00:12:35.870 money that you were handling you'd say yes of course it's a 331 00:12:35.890 --> 00:12:38.391 great opportunity look at the graph stick 332 00:12:38.431 --> 00:12:41.313 it in there williams and well done and i'll look forward to 333 00:12:41.313 --> 00:12:44.014 your quarterly statement coming through your 334 00:12:44.874 --> 00:12:47.536 but you don't think it's an opportunity and nor does viv apparently 335 00:12:49.156 --> 00:12:51.897 For the reason that Vivis has mentioned, 336 00:12:52.378 --> 00:12:54.378 you know, 337 00:12:53.598 --> 00:12:56.419 we're going backwards and projecting forwards on 338 00:12:57.060 --> 00:12:59.060 platinum uses, you know, 339 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:00.501 to our great metal. 340 00:13:00.641 --> 00:13:02.641 It'll come back. 341 00:13:01.521 --> 00:13:03.521 Well, I don't know. 342 00:13:03.222 --> 00:13:05.222 You know, I'm really not 343 00:13:05.283 --> 00:13:07.283 sure. 344 00:13:07.084 --> 00:13:09.885 I hope we're wrong and I hope we go into a very strong 345 00:13:09.985 --> 00:13:12.706 growth phase in the global economy that lifts the 346 00:13:12.746 --> 00:13:14.746 mind for anything. 347 00:13:14.267 --> 00:13:16.267 But 348 00:13:15.907 --> 00:13:17.907 I read reports that copper. 349 00:13:17.824 --> 00:13:20.705 is in short supply or will be in short supply. 350 00:13:21.205 --> 00:13:24.066 I read all these reports about the uses of 351 00:13:24.166 --> 00:13:26.166 platinum, 352 00:13:25.506 --> 00:13:27.827 and no one's buying the story. 353 00:13:28.507 --> 00:13:31.128 So why isn't anybody buying the story 354 00:13:31.668 --> 00:13:33.668 if this is true? 355 00:13:32.928 --> 00:13:35.389 That's my concern is that there's so many 356 00:13:35.609 --> 00:13:38.450 positive stories about the need for 357 00:13:38.510 --> 00:13:41.210 these metals and minerals, but no one's buying them. 358 00:13:41.831 --> 00:13:44.031 So that concerns me. 359 00:13:44.131 --> 00:13:46.292 That's where my okay, I'm not 360 00:13:46.832 --> 00:13:48.832 I'm not going to commit. 361 00:13:47.592 --> 00:13:49.592 I'll stand back. 362 00:13:49.713 --> 00:13:51.975 I always have an open mind, and if I'm wrong, 363 00:13:52.055 --> 00:13:54.055 I'll admit it, and I'll go in. 364 00:13:53.815 --> 00:13:56.497 I might miss 10%, 15%, whatever it is. 365 00:13:56.597 --> 00:13:58.597 Okay. 366 00:13:57.437 --> 00:13:59.438 But I'll benefit from the rest. 367 00:13:59.478 --> 00:14:02.119 But it's not listening to the market. 368 00:14:03.260 --> 00:14:05.961 Markets are not listening to the commentators 369 00:14:06.081 --> 00:14:08.081 or analysts or whoever. 370 00:14:08.302 --> 00:14:10.944 So I'm with Viv with this side of saying, 371 00:14:10.944 --> 00:14:13.605 okay, I can pass this one for the meantime. 372 00:14:14.037 --> 00:14:16.478 Okay, there's plenty of other things to look at. 373 00:14:16.458 --> 00:14:18.458 Let me give you some prices now, gentlemen. 374 00:14:18.019 --> 00:14:20.220 Dollar-Rand is 1787. 375 00:14:20.280 --> 00:14:22.941 British Pound against the Rand is 2336. 376 00:14:23.141 --> 00:14:26.002 Euro-Rand is 1971. 377 00:14:26.022 --> 00:14:28.123 Euro-Dollar, 110.30. 378 00:14:28.123 --> 00:14:30.123 The Fed, of course, next week. 379 00:14:29.384 --> 00:14:31.384 ECB, we know about today, 380 00:14:31.024 --> 00:14:33.024 having cut rates to 3.5%. 381 00:14:33.245 --> 00:14:35.245 And British Pound against the 382 00:14:35.906 --> 00:14:38.347 Dollar is 130.75. 383 00:14:38.347 --> 00:14:40.748 Gold price, this is doing well suddenly. 384 00:14:40.788 --> 00:14:42.788 I mean, look at this thing. 385 00:14:42.481 --> 00:14:44.481 Suddenly up $38 an ounce to 386 00:14:44.542 --> 00:14:46.542 $25.50, 387 00:14:46.282 --> 00:14:49.083 which must be approaching all-time record 388 00:14:49.103 --> 00:14:51.103 highs in US dollar terms. 389 00:14:50.863 --> 00:14:53.424 Platinum price is also doing okay. 390 00:14:53.444 --> 00:14:56.005 It's up $23, but still mired below 391 00:14:56.025 --> 00:14:58.025 $1,976. 392 00:14:57.625 --> 00:14:59.746 But palladium is now above 393 00:14:59.746 --> 00:15:02.727 $1,000, $1,035. 394 00:15:02.727 --> 00:15:05.228 So maybe this is famous last words when 395 00:15:05.408 --> 00:15:07.748 ignoring the PGM Group producers. 396 00:15:07.848 --> 00:15:09.848 Yeah, we'll see. 397 00:15:08.529 --> 00:15:10.529 What else have we got here? 398 00:15:09.849 --> 00:15:12.490 Brent crude oil was below 70 yesterday. 399 00:15:12.950 --> 00:15:14.950 Look at it now, 72.50. 400 00:15:14.571 --> 00:15:17.272 It could be to do with the interest rate scenario 401 00:15:17.672 --> 00:15:19.733 where maybe the economy comes back, 402 00:15:19.753 --> 00:15:22.494 or it could be to do with the hurricane season in the United 403 00:15:22.574 --> 00:15:24.574 States. 404 00:15:23.215 --> 00:15:25.215 Anyway, whatever it is, 405 00:15:24.595 --> 00:15:26.836 2.8% higher for Brent crude at 406 00:15:26.836 --> 00:15:29.057 72.55. 407 00:15:29.057 --> 00:15:31.057 Natural gas up 3.3%. 408 00:15:30.878 --> 00:15:32.878 In fact, it's green across the board. 409 00:15:32.438 --> 00:15:34.438 Copper up 0.6. 410 00:15:33.719 --> 00:15:36.260 Soybeans and wheat and everything else doing well. 411 00:15:36.740 --> 00:15:38.740 Steel down a couple of percent. 412 00:15:38.121 --> 00:15:40.121 Anyway. 413 00:15:38.781 --> 00:15:41.683 Generally a pretty good day for commodities so far. 414 00:15:41.823 --> 00:15:44.805 US 10-year Treasury bond yield has not come up 415 00:15:44.805 --> 00:15:47.347 on my screen, so I'll give you the South African 10-year, 416 00:15:47.628 --> 00:15:49.628 and that's not coming up either. 417 00:15:48.748 --> 00:15:50.748 So Bitcoin, that's always pretty reliable, 418 00:15:50.630 --> 00:15:52.630 but even that's not doing well. 419 00:15:52.431 --> 00:15:54.493 The S&P 500 always pops up. 420 00:15:54.493 --> 00:15:56.834 5,557, 421 00:15:57.195 --> 00:15:59.195 which has barely changed. 422 00:15:58.456 --> 00:16:00.456 That's the September futures. 423 00:16:00.017 --> 00:16:02.899 We must be coming up to expiry date and moving to the 424 00:16:02.939 --> 00:16:04.939 December futures quite quickly. 425 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:07.080 Yeah, the other ones are not... 426 00:16:05.981 --> 00:16:08.924 coming but anyway it's an okay day as people wait for the 427 00:16:08.964 --> 00:16:11.866 fed next week uh viv they're gonna cut aren't they will 428 00:16:11.866 --> 00:16:13.866 it be 25 or 50. 429 00:16:13.848 --> 00:16:16.830 25 that's what the market filed yesterday i believe uh is 430 00:16:16.830 --> 00:16:19.492 because they were hoping for some news that's going to make it uh 50. 431 00:16:19.532 --> 00:16:22.455 uh i saw the chances i mean there's still a chance 432 00:16:22.455 --> 00:16:24.455 that it's going to be 50. 433 00:16:23.216 --> 00:16:25.898 uh but i think it really you know fell 434 00:16:26.018 --> 00:16:28.820 substantially after that uh after the uh 435 00:16:28.900 --> 00:16:31.322 the interesting announcement came through i think before the announcement there was 436 00:16:31.843 --> 00:16:34.405 a minority a significant minority chance it was just uh 437 00:16:34.657 --> 00:16:36.657 I think it was like a two to one ratio for 438 00:16:36.878 --> 00:16:39.479 25 versus 50, 439 00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:41.779 and then it fell significantly from there. 440 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.240 But there's still a chance. 441 00:16:42.680 --> 00:16:45.561 And I think you could argue the Fed might not be 442 00:16:45.641 --> 00:16:47.641 unjustified by cutting by 50. 443 00:16:47.962 --> 00:16:50.223 A lot of the stuff that we are seeing right now in terms of the economy 444 00:16:50.904 --> 00:16:52.904 may justify saying, OK, 445 00:16:52.124 --> 00:16:55.045 we need to have a slightly looser economy because we can 446 00:16:55.125 --> 00:16:57.125 see this trade heading towards us. 447 00:16:56.366 --> 00:16:58.366 They're slowing down. 448 00:16:57.546 --> 00:17:00.347 And you have to be proactive. 449 00:17:00.347 --> 00:17:02.347 You can't just be reactive to everything. 450 00:17:02.568 --> 00:17:04.568 You know, I hope. 451 00:17:04.729 --> 00:17:07.690 If I was Powell, I'd just say, listen, 452 00:17:07.690 --> 00:17:09.690 we're going to start cutting rates. 453 00:17:09.111 --> 00:17:11.111 Let's cut. 454 00:17:11.612 --> 00:17:13.612 Let's cut. 455 00:17:12.693 --> 00:17:14.693 What do you want to fiddle around with? 456 00:17:14.834 --> 00:17:16.834 50? 457 00:17:15.334 --> 00:17:17.334 Is it 25? 458 00:17:17.095 --> 00:17:19.095 That makes absolutely no difference. 459 00:17:18.515 --> 00:17:20.515 You can decide later on what happens. 460 00:17:21.036 --> 00:17:23.558 And I think the market would be thrilled with a 461 00:17:23.918 --> 00:17:25.918 50-point cut, 462 00:17:24.638 --> 00:17:27.559 particularly in response to what Lindsay 463 00:17:27.679 --> 00:17:30.241 said in the opening about how things are 464 00:17:30.281 --> 00:17:32.281 slowing down. 465 00:17:33.538 --> 00:17:35.918 And the same thing here as well, our central bank. 466 00:17:36.218 --> 00:17:38.218 If you're going to start cutting, cut. 467 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:40.619 You know, don't fiddle around and then, okay, 468 00:17:40.679 --> 00:17:42.679 we'll wait. 469 00:17:41.300 --> 00:17:43.300 What's the difference? 470 00:17:42.760 --> 00:17:44.760 Well, you spook people, David. 471 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.000 That's the difference. 472 00:17:45.101 --> 00:17:47.461 If you say suddenly you're bumbling along, 473 00:17:48.021 --> 00:17:50.782 doing your normal thing all the time with your clients, for example, 474 00:17:50.802 --> 00:17:53.783 and suddenly you go a little bit rogue and 475 00:17:53.783 --> 00:17:56.284 you get a bit reckless, then the client says, 476 00:17:56.444 --> 00:17:58.444 wait a second, what's happened to Shapiro? 477 00:17:58.324 --> 00:18:01.045 It's like the market will say, wait a second, what's happened to? 478 00:18:01.645 --> 00:18:03.645 Well, now he knows something we don't. 479 00:18:03.406 --> 00:18:05.406 That's why it's cut by 15 basis points. 480 00:18:05.088 --> 00:18:07.088 You've got to be consistent, David. 481 00:18:07.890 --> 00:18:09.890 Yeah, well, you know what happened? 482 00:18:09.551 --> 00:18:12.493 I just got an inquiry now on 483 00:18:12.633 --> 00:18:15.535 NVIDIA and about, you know, 484 00:18:15.555 --> 00:18:17.897 at one stage it was X percent of my portfolio. 485 00:18:17.917 --> 00:18:19.917 I said, sir, what do you want me to do? 486 00:18:19.798 --> 00:18:21.798 If I sell it, 487 00:18:20.598 --> 00:18:23.240 and this is what I'm trying to reason with you 488 00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:25.600 and try and say the personality. 489 00:18:25.182 --> 00:18:27.182 I said, well, if I sell it, 490 00:18:27.023 --> 00:18:29.845 I've got to pay huge capital gains tax. 491 00:18:30.209 --> 00:18:33.152 And I'm going to take the money and buy something that's similar 492 00:18:33.192 --> 00:18:35.192 to 493 00:18:33.853 --> 00:18:36.715 NVIDIA, a similar stock that's going to maybe not 494 00:18:36.755 --> 00:18:39.538 even grow as fast as NVIDIA. 495 00:18:39.918 --> 00:18:41.918 So why not just stay with it? 496 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.062 So take those decisions, bold decisions. 497 00:18:44.823 --> 00:18:46.823 You've done your homework. 498 00:18:46.124 --> 00:18:48.124 I know the background. 499 00:18:46.905 --> 00:18:48.905 That's the same thing with Powell. 500 00:18:49.387 --> 00:18:51.387 Either you're going to cut rates or you're not. 501 00:18:51.621 --> 00:18:54.223 you know what is a 25 basis point cut it's 502 00:18:54.443 --> 00:18:57.184 neither here nor there it is if you take 503 00:18:57.224 --> 00:19:00.006 25 basis points as a percentage of what the 504 00:19:00.046 --> 00:19:02.767 current rate is then it's decent and then another 505 00:19:02.807 --> 00:19:05.329 25 basis points will even be a bigger 506 00:19:05.369 --> 00:19:07.670 percentage of the whole if you see what i mean 507 00:19:08.491 --> 00:19:10.491 you can't speak the markets david 508 00:19:12.968 --> 00:19:14.968 It's like my wife with a pill. 509 00:19:13.989 --> 00:19:15.989 What pill? 510 00:19:16.070 --> 00:19:18.070 The dose says, take two. 511 00:19:18.032 --> 00:19:20.032 She takes one. 512 00:19:19.072 --> 00:19:21.072 I say, it says take two. 513 00:19:21.174 --> 00:19:23.174 Don't take one. 514 00:19:22.375 --> 00:19:24.375 One's now. 515 00:19:22.935 --> 00:19:24.935 I don't want to take two. 516 00:19:23.936 --> 00:19:25.936 I want to only take one. 517 00:19:24.776 --> 00:19:26.776 I say, you may as well not take. 518 00:19:27.018 --> 00:19:29.018 That's the same thing. 519 00:19:27.879 --> 00:19:29.879 Take two pills. 520 00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:30.859 You know what I mean? 521 00:19:29.780 --> 00:19:31.780 What pill is this? 522 00:19:30.601 --> 00:19:32.601 That's the tip. 523 00:19:31.481 --> 00:19:33.481 That's the, I don't know. 524 00:19:32.462 --> 00:19:34.462 What do you call it, Don? 525 00:19:33.583 --> 00:19:35.583 I don't know. 526 00:19:33.943 --> 00:19:35.943 Not heavy stuff. 527 00:19:35.184 --> 00:19:37.184 It's not even, 528 00:19:36.064 --> 00:19:38.566 it's not even, 529 00:19:38.786 --> 00:19:40.928 and to get it, to even take is impossible. 530 00:19:41.824 --> 00:19:43.824 What do you call a pronada? 531 00:19:43.406 --> 00:19:45.406 You know, something like a pronada. 532 00:19:44.306 --> 00:19:46.306 Oh, okay, yeah. 533 00:19:44.766 --> 00:19:46.948 I said, take two. 534 00:19:47.068 --> 00:19:49.068 Can you read? 535 00:19:47.488 --> 00:19:49.488 Definitely with pronada. 536 00:19:48.449 --> 00:19:50.449 Take two. 537 00:19:48.709 --> 00:19:50.709 Yeah, 538 00:19:50.631 --> 00:19:52.631 two 500 milligrams. 539 00:19:53.713 --> 00:19:55.713 One does nothing to you. 540 00:19:54.954 --> 00:19:56.954 It doesn't. 541 00:19:56.515 --> 00:19:58.515 She's a slight woman, David. 542 00:19:57.896 --> 00:20:00.097 I mean, she's not like me, a great big lump. 543 00:20:00.658 --> 00:20:02.658 She only needs one, maybe. 544 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:04.319 Like, you only need one. 545 00:20:03.380 --> 00:20:05.380 You're a stick of a thing. 546 00:20:04.320 --> 00:20:06.662 I'm saying to pal, take two, you know. 547 00:20:09.764 --> 00:20:11.886 Take two, Jerome. 548 00:20:11.886 --> 00:20:14.628 Viv, you were trying to interrupt there. 549 00:20:14.628 --> 00:20:16.628 Please go ahead. 550 00:20:14.909 --> 00:20:16.909 Yeah, I have a theory about this stuff. 551 00:20:16.210 --> 00:20:19.152 Often, like, when you get to someone like Jerome Powell or you get to, you know, 552 00:20:19.212 --> 00:20:21.614 some of these guys that are, 553 00:20:21.634 --> 00:20:24.417 you know, in the markets, also in politics, 554 00:20:24.837 --> 00:20:26.837 and they don't really need the money. 555 00:20:26.158 --> 00:20:28.200 I mean, I think Powell is worth, like, $50 billion or something. 556 00:20:29.020 --> 00:20:31.020 Oh. 557 00:20:30.522 --> 00:20:32.522 Yeah. 558 00:20:32.924 --> 00:20:34.924 Okay, so basically, 559 00:20:35.025 --> 00:20:37.147 if you look at these kind of people, what do they do? 560 00:20:37.147 --> 00:20:39.147 They do it for legacy. 561 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:40.460 If you had to think back, 562 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.041 who's the most legendary of the 563 00:20:42.141 --> 00:20:44.141 central bank governors for the US? 564 00:20:43.522 --> 00:20:45.522 Greenspan. 565 00:20:44.522 --> 00:20:46.522 Obviously, it's 566 00:20:47.223 --> 00:20:49.223 Falkner. Who? 567 00:20:47.843 --> 00:20:49.843 Falkner. 568 00:20:48.183 --> 00:20:51.104 Falkner, yeah, from the 80s, yeah, 569 00:20:51.104 --> 00:20:53.104 late 80s. 570 00:20:51.484 --> 00:20:53.484 Whose reputation is last until now? 571 00:20:53.725 --> 00:20:55.985 Yes, you know Greenspan, but Greenspan's reputation is dirt. 572 00:20:56.145 --> 00:20:58.145 Instructors, yeah. 573 00:20:58.106 --> 00:21:00.106 Yeah, instructed, yeah. 574 00:20:59.887 --> 00:21:02.727 So I wonder sometimes that he thinks, not in terms of the economy, 575 00:21:02.787 --> 00:21:04.787 but in terms of his own personal legacy. 576 00:21:04.848 --> 00:21:07.549 would you rather err on the side of basically being too slow, 577 00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:09.589 being too fast cutting interest rates? 578 00:21:09.430 --> 00:21:11.430 And that is sometimes you see the side. 579 00:21:11.691 --> 00:21:14.492 Guys don't do what's best for their so-called 580 00:21:15.092 --> 00:21:17.293 duty, but what's best for their reputation. 581 00:21:19.014 --> 00:21:21.014 And I think hold interest rates 582 00:21:21.835 --> 00:21:24.136 down because he's always had the argument, 583 00:21:24.296 --> 00:21:26.296 I'm fighting inflation. 584 00:21:25.636 --> 00:21:27.636 You know what I mean? 585 00:21:26.617 --> 00:21:29.518 And if he gets inflation down with the recession versus maybe 586 00:21:29.678 --> 00:21:31.899 not getting inflation down, not causing a recession, 587 00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:34.299 I think he probably will err on the side of that. 588 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:36.200 Because. 589 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:37.461 like i said paul volcker he is the legendary 590 00:21:37.581 --> 00:21:40.543 like you know central bank governor you know 40 years and he's 591 00:21:40.723 --> 00:21:43.244 like still like looked at us with such a uh a 592 00:21:43.264 --> 00:21:46.245 reputation and his last degree span was very popular at the time 593 00:21:46.585 --> 00:21:49.467 but nike yellen uh these people were popular at 594 00:21:49.487 --> 00:21:52.468 some points of time but i mean they don't really like said like head and 595 00:21:52.468 --> 00:21:55.369 shoulders above the rest i think he basically managed 596 00:21:55.369 --> 00:21:58.211 to get inflation down from nine down to say two percent 597 00:21:58.331 --> 00:22:00.331 even with a recession i think he'll take that 598 00:22:01.392 --> 00:22:03.392 Yeah, but it's got nothing really to do with him. 599 00:22:03.233 --> 00:22:05.313 It's got to do with extraneous factors. 600 00:22:05.313 --> 00:22:08.194 And David and I had this chat on Monday, politicians, 601 00:22:08.574 --> 00:22:11.135 and I consider Jerome Powell to be a politician. 602 00:22:11.675 --> 00:22:13.675 I mean, it's easy. 603 00:22:13.355 --> 00:22:15.355 Interest rates are at this level, 604 00:22:15.336 --> 00:22:17.336 inflation's at this level, 605 00:22:17.056 --> 00:22:19.937 you start to raise rates 606 00:22:19.957 --> 00:22:21.957 in order to get inflation down. 607 00:22:21.218 --> 00:22:23.218 I don't think it's a very difficult job, actually. 608 00:22:23.558 --> 00:22:25.558 I mean, 609 00:22:23.798 --> 00:22:26.679 you have to make a few speeches in front of Congress and that sort of thing. 610 00:22:26.719 --> 00:22:29.160 But you've got three decisions, unchanged, 611 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:31.240 up or down. 612 00:22:30.280 --> 00:22:32.280 I'd love my life to be like that. 613 00:22:31.821 --> 00:22:33.821 Three decisions every day of my life. 614 00:22:33.862 --> 00:22:35.862 Okay, let's have a look here. 615 00:22:34.963 --> 00:22:36.984 Sibania still water up 9.9%. 616 00:22:37.064 --> 00:22:39.064 Harmony up 617 00:22:37.764 --> 00:22:40.146 9.3%. 618 00:22:40.666 --> 00:22:43.468 African rainbow minerals up 6.8%. 619 00:22:43.468 --> 00:22:45.529 Impala platinum 6.3%. 620 00:22:45.889 --> 00:22:48.391 DRD gold up 5.8%. 621 00:22:48.671 --> 00:22:50.671 Anyone notice a pattern here? 622 00:22:50.532 --> 00:22:52.532 Diggers doing well. 623 00:22:53.133 --> 00:22:55.133 Downside. 624 00:22:54.134 --> 00:22:56.134 Growth point down 2.5%. 625 00:22:55.775 --> 00:22:57.775 They came out with their results this week. 626 00:22:57.676 --> 00:23:00.057 Pick and Bay down two and a third, Carew down 1.4, 627 00:23:00.137 --> 00:23:02.137 Advertec down one and a third, 628 00:23:01.938 --> 00:23:03.999 and Spa down 1.2. 629 00:23:04.099 --> 00:23:06.900 Suddenly people are snapping up bargains 630 00:23:06.980 --> 00:23:08.980 in the digging department, David. 631 00:23:09.401 --> 00:23:12.282 Probably you're in that area where a lot of people feel very 632 00:23:12.382 --> 00:23:14.382 strong about it. 633 00:23:13.783 --> 00:23:16.244 And that's why I'm saying if you get a 50-point cut, 634 00:23:16.864 --> 00:23:18.864 yes, 635 00:23:17.885 --> 00:23:20.166 you might get that turnaround that we're waiting for. 636 00:23:20.226 --> 00:23:22.227 But I think everything will turn around. 637 00:23:22.247 --> 00:23:24.408 It will draw people back into the market, 638 00:23:24.488 --> 00:23:26.488 no doubt about that. 639 00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:28.781 So we're waiting for something, Lindsay. 640 00:23:29.141 --> 00:23:31.141 You know, we need growth. 641 00:23:30.401 --> 00:23:32.401 We don't realize it. 642 00:23:31.481 --> 00:23:34.122 We haven't had 643 00:23:34.202 --> 00:23:36.202 growth for, what, 644 00:23:35.182 --> 00:23:38.043 four years or anything there that's really brought us into the 645 00:23:38.063 --> 00:23:40.063 market. 646 00:23:38.423 --> 00:23:40.423 You know, 647 00:23:38.643 --> 00:23:41.424 we're not talking about false stimulus that came with 648 00:23:41.484 --> 00:23:44.425 COVID or issues like that where there was always 649 00:23:44.545 --> 00:23:46.545 something at the back of your mind, 650 00:23:46.045 --> 00:23:48.045 the concerns about inflation and so on. 651 00:23:48.306 --> 00:23:50.306 We haven't had really good, 652 00:23:50.227 --> 00:23:52.227 decent growth markets, you know, 653 00:23:52.067 --> 00:23:54.067 with broad gains across the board. 654 00:23:54.328 --> 00:23:56.849 And If you want evidence of that, 655 00:23:57.009 --> 00:23:59.571 you can look at the bank 656 00:23:59.651 --> 00:24:01.693 results that came out in the US yesterday 657 00:24:03.054 --> 00:24:05.054 from 658 00:24:03.574 --> 00:24:06.356 JP Morgan's warnings of nothing 659 00:24:06.416 --> 00:24:08.416 happening. 660 00:24:07.157 --> 00:24:09.157 Goldman, it's more trading side. 661 00:24:09.138 --> 00:24:11.780 If you look at first round as well today, as you know. 662 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.240 In our market, 663 00:24:13.001 --> 00:24:15.843 it also gives you an indication of how tough things 664 00:24:15.943 --> 00:24:18.885 are in an economy that's not 665 00:24:18.985 --> 00:24:20.985 doing anything. 666 00:24:19.645 --> 00:24:22.527 That's not giving you 667 00:24:22.527 --> 00:24:25.069 the foundation on which to really grow 668 00:24:25.529 --> 00:24:27.529 and do things. 669 00:24:26.770 --> 00:24:28.770 We want those markets. 670 00:24:27.651 --> 00:24:30.613 I love those markets where people are pumping and 671 00:24:30.653 --> 00:24:33.054 companies are pumping and borrowing and 672 00:24:33.455 --> 00:24:35.455 M&As and so on. 673 00:24:35.216 --> 00:24:37.377 And you know, my time is limited, Lindsay. 674 00:24:37.377 --> 00:24:39.377 What do you mean? 675 00:24:38.899 --> 00:24:40.899 I need a bull market before I go. 676 00:24:41.420 --> 00:24:43.420 David, 677 00:24:42.301 --> 00:24:44.802 you're trying to get sympathy for myself and Viv now. 678 00:24:44.902 --> 00:24:47.303 I mean, Viv, you're the youngest of the three of us now. 679 00:24:47.343 --> 00:24:49.343 You've got Shapiro on top of the pyramid. 680 00:24:49.324 --> 00:24:51.324 You've got me in the middle. 681 00:24:50.244 --> 00:24:52.305 We've got a couple of decades to go. 682 00:24:52.365 --> 00:24:55.086 We'll have a bull market and a depression 683 00:24:55.246 --> 00:24:57.246 and a bear market. 684 00:24:56.727 --> 00:24:58.727 You know, 685 00:24:57.527 --> 00:24:59.928 a whole bunch of stuff to put all over. 686 00:24:59.968 --> 00:25:02.509 David, you're far too vain to die in the next 10 years. 687 00:25:02.569 --> 00:25:04.810 So, 20 years it will be. 688 00:25:04.810 --> 00:25:06.810 This morning, 689 00:25:06.491 --> 00:25:08.491 I scared the hell out of the audience. 690 00:25:08.292 --> 00:25:10.292 I said, you know what? 691 00:25:09.500 --> 00:25:11.500 with Ozempic and Regovi and 692 00:25:12.423 --> 00:25:15.345 Zepdown and all these other drugs that have been coming 693 00:25:15.405 --> 00:25:17.405 onto the market. 694 00:25:16.046 --> 00:25:18.046 You're going to live to 90. 695 00:25:17.887 --> 00:25:19.887 I said, people are going to live beyond 90. 696 00:25:19.589 --> 00:25:21.589 I said, 697 00:25:19.769 --> 00:25:22.672 the problem is you want to retire at 65. 698 00:25:22.672 --> 00:25:25.394 That means your savings are going to last you 25 699 00:25:25.434 --> 00:25:27.434 years. 700 00:25:26.195 --> 00:25:29.057 And those savings have only been accumulated over 40 701 00:25:29.117 --> 00:25:31.117 years of working. 702 00:25:29.938 --> 00:25:31.938 So you've got 40 years of working. 703 00:25:32.636 --> 00:25:35.578 Savings over 40 years to last you another 25 years 704 00:25:35.578 --> 00:25:37.578 of retirement. 705 00:25:36.639 --> 00:25:38.761 You better find a good stock broker. 706 00:25:38.781 --> 00:25:41.342 It's a very sobering thought what you've just said, actually, 707 00:25:41.362 --> 00:25:43.964 because South Africa, of all countries, is not prepared. 708 00:25:44.124 --> 00:25:46.124 Now, talking about age, 709 00:25:45.865 --> 00:25:48.307 when you get to a certain age, you'll be, I mean, 710 00:25:48.347 --> 00:25:50.549 apart from having young children at your age, 711 00:25:51.249 --> 00:25:53.249 there's another thing that wakes you up. 712 00:25:52.550 --> 00:25:55.112 You need to go to the loo between 3 o'clock and 713 00:25:55.152 --> 00:25:57.152 3.30 every morning. 714 00:25:57.494 --> 00:25:59.494 This is a fact of getting older, 715 00:25:59.355 --> 00:26:01.355 and there's nothing wrong with it at all. 716 00:26:01.116 --> 00:26:03.116 if you're able to go back to sleep. 717 00:26:02.937 --> 00:26:05.578 I woke up at 3.27 on Tuesday 718 00:26:05.658 --> 00:26:07.658 morning, 3.27am, 719 00:26:07.979 --> 00:26:09.979 and I thought, gosh, 720 00:26:09.239 --> 00:26:11.881 I've missed the first 27 minutes of the debate. 721 00:26:12.281 --> 00:26:15.062 I turned it on and I spent the next 722 00:26:15.202 --> 00:26:17.202 hour in raptures. 723 00:26:17.243 --> 00:26:19.604 And the split screen had obviously, 724 00:26:20.024 --> 00:26:22.665 Kamala Harris had been really well schooled 725 00:26:22.965 --> 00:26:24.965 on how to handle the split screen, 726 00:26:25.066 --> 00:26:27.907 how to look when Trump was looking 727 00:26:27.967 --> 00:26:29.967 like the buffoon that he is. 728 00:26:29.932 --> 00:26:32.294 And it was a glorious hour of television. 729 00:26:32.374 --> 00:26:35.356 It's all gone poof now because, 730 00:26:35.676 --> 00:26:38.318 you know, it was a very short-lived triumph. 731 00:26:38.719 --> 00:26:40.719 But it really was good, Viv. 732 00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:42.500 You probably saw the highlights. 733 00:26:42.321 --> 00:26:44.321 What is your assessment of this? 734 00:26:44.042 --> 00:26:46.042 Did it change the election? 735 00:26:46.624 --> 00:26:48.624 No. 736 00:26:46.985 --> 00:26:48.985 Let me tell you why. 737 00:26:47.985 --> 00:26:50.107 You know, the last time Trump, 738 00:26:50.107 --> 00:26:52.829 I think he won by 30 plus points in terms of 739 00:26:52.869 --> 00:26:54.869 the, like, 740 00:26:54.570 --> 00:26:56.570 the bidders to losers in terms of the thing, right? 741 00:26:56.932 --> 00:26:59.293 I think… It is kind of the Biden-Trump one, of course, 742 00:26:59.313 --> 00:27:01.313 because Trump won that by more. 743 00:27:01.115 --> 00:27:03.115 Yes. 744 00:27:01.815 --> 00:27:04.557 But the last time we saw someone win by this much in a 745 00:27:04.577 --> 00:27:06.577 debate was, guess who? 746 00:27:05.598 --> 00:27:07.598 Go on. 747 00:27:06.298 --> 00:27:08.298 Romney versus Obama. 748 00:27:08.020 --> 00:27:10.702 Romney beat Obama in the first debate by, I think, 749 00:27:10.742 --> 00:27:12.742 37 points. 750 00:27:12.623 --> 00:27:14.623 Please don't depress me, Viv. 751 00:27:15.625 --> 00:27:17.625 So here's the thing. 752 00:27:18.327 --> 00:27:20.327 This is amazing stuff, right? 753 00:27:19.788 --> 00:27:21.788 By this point in time, 754 00:27:20.809 --> 00:27:23.491 the people that are left to decide are the least 755 00:27:23.611 --> 00:27:25.611 informed people around. 756 00:27:25.989 --> 00:27:28.911 It's not going to be all 757 00:27:28.911 --> 00:27:30.911 these things. 758 00:27:29.411 --> 00:27:31.773 This is like, I want to point something out here. 759 00:27:32.234 --> 00:27:34.376 The stuff they do with the Haitians, that is disgusting. 760 00:27:34.516 --> 00:27:36.516 I'm just saying straightforward. 761 00:27:35.877 --> 00:27:37.877 It is just plain, straightforward disgusting. 762 00:27:37.998 --> 00:27:40.300 But those that don't know, right, they are making these stories up. 763 00:27:40.941 --> 00:27:42.941 There was a video of some African-American woman, 764 00:27:43.203 --> 00:27:45.925 and she was African-American, not Haitian, who was killing a cat. 765 00:27:45.945 --> 00:27:47.945 I think she had some mental issues, right? 766 00:27:47.546 --> 00:27:50.209 And it turned into the whole xenophobic, racist thing about 767 00:27:50.969 --> 00:27:53.912 Haitians killing pets and eating cats 768 00:27:53.972 --> 00:27:55.972 and... 769 00:27:54.452 --> 00:27:57.234 you know disappearing and whatnot and there's a whole kind of thing about that 770 00:27:57.274 --> 00:27:59.795 right now i mean you can 771 00:28:00.936 --> 00:28:03.497 you you can make arguments with immigration you can make arguments 772 00:28:02.877 --> 00:28:04.877 whatever 773 00:28:03.978 --> 00:28:06.659 firstly the haitians that they're talking about are primarily illegal 774 00:28:06.719 --> 00:28:09.601 immigrants in the status springfield who 775 00:28:09.661 --> 00:28:12.643 are there because there's a demand for labor and there's no 776 00:28:12.743 --> 00:28:15.585 evidence from the uh from the police 777 00:28:15.645 --> 00:28:18.546 or whatever that these guys are actually doing the things 778 00:28:18.546 --> 00:28:20.748 that they have been accused of uh you know 779 00:28:21.464 --> 00:28:24.186 There's no evidence that these guys are, or the Haitians that are there, 780 00:28:24.606 --> 00:28:27.348 are putting crime at a higher rate or doing all this kind of stuff. 781 00:28:27.809 --> 00:28:30.350 But they are using like the most vile 782 00:28:30.390 --> 00:28:32.390 stereotypes. 783 00:28:31.071 --> 00:28:33.312 I mean, I've seen stuff about like, you know, 784 00:28:33.312 --> 00:28:35.754 Trump's talking about the rapists and stuff coming over the border. 785 00:28:36.094 --> 00:28:38.094 But you talk about illegal immigrants and that thing. 786 00:28:38.036 --> 00:28:40.217 I think this is the case of like targeting a group 787 00:28:41.038 --> 00:28:43.400 just for the pure political benefit of it 788 00:28:44.100 --> 00:28:46.100 based on nothing, absolutely nothing. 789 00:28:45.941 --> 00:28:48.803 And the thing is that even like Elon Musk and stuff are getting 790 00:28:48.864 --> 00:28:50.864 into it. 791 00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:51.720 And they're making the excuse that, no, 792 00:28:51.061 --> 00:28:53.061 this is more of a joke than real or whatnot. 793 00:28:53.222 --> 00:28:55.222 No. 794 00:28:53.502 --> 00:28:55.502 But you can't make these kind of jokes. 795 00:28:54.963 --> 00:28:56.963 You can't. 796 00:28:56.003 --> 00:28:58.745 These are literally racist jokes that you're making. 797 00:28:58.965 --> 00:29:01.186 We don't really recognize them, but these are literally racist jokes. 798 00:29:01.186 --> 00:29:04.027 You would not make these jokes about other groups or even 799 00:29:04.488 --> 00:29:07.209 similar groups, but using different racist jokes. 800 00:29:07.209 --> 00:29:09.209 You know what I mean? 801 00:29:08.350 --> 00:29:10.350 And this is like, yeah, 802 00:29:09.310 --> 00:29:11.912 I'm just going to say that's a very bad thing. 803 00:29:13.372 --> 00:29:16.135 Yeah, that's the point of this fact study. 804 00:29:16.155 --> 00:29:18.155 Sorry about the rant. 805 00:29:17.696 --> 00:29:19.696 No, no, 806 00:29:17.836 --> 00:29:20.778 you can rant away because I said something about racism because 807 00:29:20.778 --> 00:29:23.541 I've been doing some reading and doing some watching about the 808 00:29:23.561 --> 00:29:25.561 Trump family racism, 809 00:29:25.242 --> 00:29:27.242 and it's quite startling. 810 00:29:26.943 --> 00:29:29.846 And I will mention it, an abbreviated form of it, 811 00:29:30.346 --> 00:29:32.346 in a moment. 812 00:29:31.287 --> 00:29:33.389 But you know what, David, that Trump did say as well? 813 00:29:33.409 --> 00:29:35.409 He said during that debate, 814 00:29:35.250 --> 00:29:38.193 he said that there was 168 countries that 815 00:29:38.193 --> 00:29:40.455 have been sending their criminals to America. 816 00:29:40.455 --> 00:29:42.455 He came up with this number. 817 00:29:42.156 --> 00:29:44.156 168 countries. 818 00:29:44.177 --> 00:29:46.177 And he said, you know, 819 00:29:44.998 --> 00:29:47.580 they're sending their prisoners and their people from their mental 820 00:29:47.620 --> 00:29:49.620 institutions to America. 821 00:29:49.301 --> 00:29:51.301 And in those 168 countries, 822 00:29:51.843 --> 00:29:54.124 in each one, the crime rate has fallen. 823 00:29:54.385 --> 00:29:56.385 But in America, it's gone up. 824 00:29:56.306 --> 00:29:58.588 Complete fabrication, 825 00:29:58.668 --> 00:30:00.668 complete fantasy. 826 00:30:01.249 --> 00:30:03.249 And people vote for this freak. 827 00:30:02.570 --> 00:30:04.832 I know, I know. 828 00:30:04.952 --> 00:30:06.952 You know, 829 00:30:06.173 --> 00:30:08.455 that's why I loved what Taylor Swift did. 830 00:30:08.595 --> 00:30:10.595 And I'm so glad she came out. 831 00:30:10.716 --> 00:30:13.457 And just the statement, 832 00:30:13.457 --> 00:30:15.457 you know, it's time. 833 00:30:14.937 --> 00:30:16.937 I don't know how she said it, 834 00:30:15.978 --> 00:30:18.878 but just wanting calm amongst all 835 00:30:18.898 --> 00:30:20.898 this chaos. 836 00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:21.759 Yes. 837 00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:22.559 You just want someone who's calm, 838 00:30:22.259 --> 00:30:24.940 which whether you like Kamala or not, 839 00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:27.480 you know, 840 00:30:26.121 --> 00:30:28.641 it's up to you because I know I have a 841 00:30:28.681 --> 00:30:30.681 family. 842 00:30:29.201 --> 00:30:31.942 My daughter just can't stand it, but she can't stand Trump. 843 00:30:32.923 --> 00:30:34.923 So it puts her in no man's land. 844 00:30:34.643 --> 00:30:37.564 But I just want. 845 00:30:37.908 --> 00:30:40.450 I want to go into a country where there's calmness, 846 00:30:40.510 --> 00:30:42.552 where there's decency, where there's respect. 847 00:30:43.212 --> 00:30:45.212 Not this grumpy man. 848 00:30:44.473 --> 00:30:47.176 Did you see his face throughout the whole debate? 849 00:30:47.376 --> 00:30:49.978 He was contorted that whole time. 850 00:30:50.458 --> 00:30:52.458 He's snarling. 851 00:30:51.499 --> 00:30:53.499 He's full of hatred and anger. 852 00:30:53.901 --> 00:30:55.901 You know, 853 00:30:54.341 --> 00:30:57.044 there's nothing fatherly about him or 854 00:30:57.524 --> 00:30:59.524 I just, I don't know, I just, 855 00:30:59.465 --> 00:31:01.465 I hope she takes it, you know, 856 00:31:01.187 --> 00:31:03.269 regardless of what the the polls say or what? 857 00:31:03.269 --> 00:31:05.269 She will. 858 00:31:03.429 --> 00:31:06.211 She may not be the best candidate, but she will take it. 859 00:31:06.191 --> 00:31:08.191 I really hope so. 860 00:31:07.212 --> 00:31:09.212 I really hope they have a ring, Viv. 861 00:31:08.713 --> 00:31:10.713 And just on the racism thing, an 862 00:31:10.455 --> 00:31:13.357 abbreviated 863 00:31:13.357 --> 00:31:15.357 version. 864 00:31:13.857 --> 00:31:15.857 I think there's a guy called Nate Silver. 865 00:31:15.899 --> 00:31:17.899 You don't know if you know him. 866 00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:18.982 He's the preeminent poller in the US. 867 00:31:19.342 --> 00:31:21.342 He's got people up against him and stuff, 868 00:31:21.304 --> 00:31:24.146 but if you look at historically, he's been better than most people. 869 00:31:24.586 --> 00:31:27.449 He's the guy that gave Trump the 30% with other key eyes will give you 1% in the 870 00:31:27.449 --> 00:31:29.449 2020 election. 871 00:31:29.130 --> 00:31:31.130 He's some of the company called FiveThirtyEight, which is like the... 872 00:31:31.372 --> 00:31:34.254 premier polling company he's left it and his polling 873 00:31:34.294 --> 00:31:37.255 has trump i think it's like before the debate as a two to one 874 00:31:37.275 --> 00:31:40.097 favorite uh and the problem is that 875 00:31:40.497 --> 00:31:42.919 it comes down remember last time we spoke about it on the previous time 876 00:31:43.499 --> 00:31:46.080 it's it's it's literally the democrats 877 00:31:46.161 --> 00:31:48.842 racism against jews is why they may lose the 878 00:31:48.862 --> 00:31:50.862 election because 879 00:31:50.103 --> 00:31:53.004 if you want pennsylvania pennsylvania according to his 880 00:31:53.084 --> 00:31:55.646 model gives you a 91 chance of winning the election 881 00:31:56.326 --> 00:31:58.508 guess who's governor of pennsylvania shapira 882 00:31:59.408 --> 00:32:02.351 I guess he did not choose as a running mate because 883 00:32:02.351 --> 00:32:04.351 he was Jewish? 884 00:32:03.452 --> 00:32:05.452 Shapiro. 885 00:32:03.792 --> 00:32:05.792 You know, 886 00:32:05.914 --> 00:32:07.914 it is such, 887 00:32:07.796 --> 00:32:09.938 like, honestly, 888 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:12.641 if he loses because of that, that's almost like, you know, 889 00:32:13.161 --> 00:32:15.161 he deserved that, you know what I mean? 890 00:32:14.162 --> 00:32:16.364 Because he made a choice based on racism, 891 00:32:16.785 --> 00:32:18.785 and that is why he lost. 892 00:32:18.667 --> 00:32:21.549 If he had just chosen Shapiro, largely, if he had chosen Josh Shapiro, 893 00:32:21.589 --> 00:32:23.589 this guy is incredibly popular. 894 00:32:23.311 --> 00:32:25.311 The race would be in the bag. 895 00:32:24.764 --> 00:32:26.764 Well, we'll see. 896 00:32:25.664 --> 00:32:27.945 I still think Waltz is a contender. 897 00:32:27.945 --> 00:32:30.066 But anyway, just on to the racism thing before we go. 898 00:32:30.747 --> 00:32:32.747 Whenever 899 00:32:31.767 --> 00:32:34.008 Donald Trump speaks about Barack Obama, 900 00:32:34.008 --> 00:32:36.008 he doesn't talk about Barack Obama. 901 00:32:35.829 --> 00:32:38.210 He says Barack Hussein Obama. 902 00:32:38.570 --> 00:32:40.570 He emphasizes Hussein, 903 00:32:40.591 --> 00:32:42.611 and that's obviously because he's anti-Islam. 904 00:32:42.992 --> 00:32:44.992 Okay, it's the first thing. 905 00:32:44.032 --> 00:32:46.833 And then the other thing that he said at one of his rallies, he said, 906 00:32:46.853 --> 00:32:48.894 they're sending their millions of prisoners and 907 00:32:49.734 --> 00:32:51.734 mental patients to us. 908 00:32:51.895 --> 00:32:53.895 They're coming from Central America. 909 00:32:53.716 --> 00:32:56.377 South America, the Middle East, Africa, 910 00:32:56.877 --> 00:32:58.877 and the Far East. 911 00:32:58.377 --> 00:33:00.377 Now, I mean, 912 00:33:00.178 --> 00:33:02.178 and he talked about the Congo specifically. 913 00:33:02.158 --> 00:33:04.979 Now, I have to point out there's no such place as the Congo. 914 00:33:05.399 --> 00:33:07.900 It's split into the Democratic Republic of Congo 915 00:33:08.360 --> 00:33:10.360 and the Republic of the Congo. 916 00:33:10.241 --> 00:33:12.241 So Trump doesn't know that, of course. 917 00:33:11.941 --> 00:33:13.941 But he says that what they're doing, 918 00:33:13.522 --> 00:33:16.503 he's there sending people from the Democratic Republic of 919 00:33:16.563 --> 00:33:18.563 Congo, let's say, 920 00:33:17.583 --> 00:33:20.504 they're letting them out of the prisons and sending them to America. 921 00:33:20.864 --> 00:33:22.864 Now. 922 00:33:21.948 --> 00:33:24.429 I don't know about you, but when you go to America, 923 00:33:24.489 --> 00:33:26.529 you probably have to go to the embassy to get a visa. 924 00:33:26.649 --> 00:33:29.230 And the chap from the DLC says, 925 00:33:29.550 --> 00:33:31.550 I'd like to go to America, please. 926 00:33:30.830 --> 00:33:32.830 And I said, certainly, sir, could you fill in this form? 927 00:33:32.711 --> 00:33:34.711 Have you got a criminal record? 928 00:33:33.731 --> 00:33:35.731 He said, yes, I've just been released from jail. 929 00:33:40.733 --> 00:33:42.733 But more importantly, 930 00:33:42.734 --> 00:33:45.614 the stupidity of it is that it's partly true because people do want to 931 00:33:45.614 --> 00:33:47.614 get to America. 932 00:33:46.115 --> 00:33:48.115 They want to be trafficked, right? 933 00:33:47.835 --> 00:33:50.596 And they have found over the last couple of years that all you do is you get to 934 00:33:50.676 --> 00:33:52.676 South America. 935 00:33:51.952 --> 00:33:54.893 And there's cases of guys from Bangladesh stuck in the Amazon, I believe, 936 00:33:55.374 --> 00:33:58.175 because they were getting to South America and they take this route. 937 00:33:58.195 --> 00:34:00.195 And it's absolutely a horrible thing. 938 00:33:59.955 --> 00:34:01.955 I watched some stuff on it. 939 00:34:01.556 --> 00:34:04.077 And these coyotes that are these cartels 940 00:34:04.638 --> 00:34:07.219 are trafficking people from Central America to 941 00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:09.359 Mexico, into North America, 942 00:34:10.180 --> 00:34:12.180 into the U.S., right? 943 00:34:12.121 --> 00:34:14.942 And these guys who are from India, 944 00:34:15.142 --> 00:34:17.963 from Bangladesh, and from Africa to a certain extent, 945 00:34:18.003 --> 00:34:20.003 from China, a lot of Chinese people. 946 00:34:19.944 --> 00:34:21.944 are actually doing this. 947 00:34:21.325 --> 00:34:23.325 They're trafficking, 948 00:34:22.345 --> 00:34:25.266 they're paying these guys like tens of thousands of dollars and they're going 949 00:34:24.746 --> 00:34:26.746 across the 950 00:34:25.266 --> 00:34:27.266 border to the south and from, 951 00:34:26.927 --> 00:34:28.927 apparently from the north as well, from Canada. 952 00:34:29.308 --> 00:34:31.308 But it is a silly thing. 953 00:34:30.608 --> 00:34:32.669 But it's one of those things which is like, you know, 954 00:34:33.150 --> 00:34:35.150 it's not a major, like, you know, 955 00:34:35.170 --> 00:34:37.631 thing because if you look at the actual numbers, right, and this is weird, 956 00:34:37.771 --> 00:34:39.771 even illegal immigrants, 957 00:34:39.052 --> 00:34:41.713 even people that are in the US illegally commit 958 00:34:41.813 --> 00:34:44.574 crime at a lower rate than people that are in the US, 959 00:34:45.174 --> 00:34:47.175 that are, they're just poor people. 960 00:34:48.176 --> 00:34:50.176 Why? 961 00:34:48.396 --> 00:34:50.396 Because, you came to the US, 962 00:34:49.797 --> 00:34:52.379 you're not here to commit a crime because if you commit a crime you get deported, 963 00:34:52.699 --> 00:34:54.699 especially if you're illegal. 964 00:34:54.340 --> 00:34:57.102 A guy that's basically driving without a license is much less likely to 965 00:34:57.162 --> 00:34:59.162 speed because he's not going to be caught. 966 00:34:59.403 --> 00:35:01.403 If he gets caught, he goes to jail, you know what I mean? 967 00:35:01.365 --> 00:35:03.365 And the same thing here, 968 00:35:05.228 --> 00:35:07.228 it's one way it's true, 969 00:35:06.589 --> 00:35:08.950 the weird thing with Trump is he mixes half-truths 970 00:35:09.471 --> 00:35:11.471 with half-lies, you know what I mean? 971 00:35:11.052 --> 00:35:13.974 And the truth part is that there is this weird thing happening at 972 00:35:13.954 --> 00:35:16.856 the border where you do find a lot of people from Asia and Africa 973 00:35:17.372 --> 00:35:19.372 going through the southern border, that's true. 974 00:35:19.194 --> 00:35:21.376 But these guys are not committing crime at a higher rate. 975 00:35:21.696 --> 00:35:23.696 That's the other thing that's true. 976 00:35:22.677 --> 00:35:25.079 The other thing that's true, and this is where we end this now, 977 00:35:25.099 --> 00:35:27.741 because I get very passionate about this rabid 978 00:35:27.901 --> 00:35:29.901 racist pig who is Trump, 979 00:35:29.583 --> 00:35:31.604 and I make no apologies for saying that. 980 00:35:31.804 --> 00:35:34.567 He talks about people coming from Central America, 981 00:35:34.987 --> 00:35:37.950 South America, Africa, the Middle East, 982 00:35:38.450 --> 00:35:40.450 and Asia. 983 00:35:39.931 --> 00:35:42.253 And there's one thing that really stands out there. 984 00:35:42.413 --> 00:35:45.156 All of those people from all of those countries, 985 00:35:45.456 --> 00:35:48.217 have one thing that is different to Donald Trump 986 00:35:48.357 --> 00:35:50.357 before he came orange, 987 00:35:50.098 --> 00:35:52.098 and that is their skin colour. 988 00:35:51.899 --> 00:35:53.899 They're not white. 989 00:35:53.279 --> 00:35:56.180 He never mentions the people from Britain and Germany and Spain 990 00:35:56.220 --> 00:35:59.022 and Portugal and Eastern Europe who are all 991 00:35:59.082 --> 00:36:01.082 white. 992 00:35:59.582 --> 00:36:02.203 He doesn't mention those immigrants coming into the country. 993 00:36:02.443 --> 00:36:05.244 He ignores it because he's a racist. 994 00:36:05.564 --> 00:36:07.564 And lest we forget, 995 00:36:06.765 --> 00:36:09.286 his wife arrived in the United States of America 996 00:36:09.966 --> 00:36:11.966 as a young child in the early 997 00:36:13.047 --> 00:36:15.047 1970s. He never mentions that. 998 00:36:15.156 --> 00:36:17.158 He's a rabid racist. 999 00:36:17.258 --> 00:36:20.160 Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time this evening. 1000 00:36:20.160 --> 00:36:22.160 That was great fun. 1001 00:36:21.140 --> 00:36:23.140 David, safe travels next 1002 00:36:24.503 --> 00:36:26.724 week and back whenever you can. 1003 00:36:27.105 --> 00:36:29.105 I will. 1004 00:36:27.745 --> 00:36:29.745 Please do. 1005 00:36:28.486 --> 00:36:30.487 David Shapiro is a assassin of securities. 1006 00:36:30.547 --> 00:36:32.547 He's a frequent flyer. 1007 00:36:31.628 --> 00:36:33.689 Viv Govender is from 1008 00:36:34.090 --> 00:36:36.992 Randsuisse, both in Johannesburg, and that was the 5 o'clock shadow. 1009 00:36:37.292 --> 00:36:40.054 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of 1010 00:36:40.114 --> 00:36:42.616 Lindsay Williams and various contributors. 1011 00:36:42.896 --> 00:36:44.896 and do not reflect the policy, position, 1012 00:36:45.297 --> 00:36:47.977 or opinion of any other agency, organization, 1013 00:36:48.298 --> 00:36:51.178 employer, or company associated with 1014 00:36:51.218 --> 00:36:53.218 StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 1015 00:36:53.399 --> 00:36:55.820 Assumptions made on the analyses are not 1016 00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:58.900 reflective of the position of any other entity other 1017 00:36:58.940 --> 00:37:00.940 than the speaker or the author. 1018 00:37:00.661 --> 00:37:03.162 And since we are critically thinking human beings, 1019 00:37:03.522 --> 00:37:05.842 these views are always subject to change, 1020 00:37:06.142 --> 00:37:08.683 revision, and rethinking at any time. 1021 00:37:09.003 --> 00:37:11.404 Please do not hold us to them in perpetuity.