WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.404 --> 00:00:03.126 You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast 2 00:00:03.407 --> 00:00:05.407 with Lindsay Williams. 3 00:00:05.088 --> 00:00:07.150 The JSC has closed its doors for another day. 4 00:00:07.770 --> 00:00:09.912 And so it's time for the five o'clock shadow. 5 00:00:10.012 --> 00:00:12.012 And as always on a Thursday, 6 00:00:11.333 --> 00:00:14.236 it's the doubleheader Dream Team edition with Viv Govender 7 00:00:14.256 --> 00:00:16.658 from Rands Swiss and David Shapiro from Sassfin 8 00:00:16.738 --> 00:00:18.738 Securities in Johannesburg. 9 00:00:18.799 --> 00:00:20.799 Now, many, many years ago, 10 00:00:19.940 --> 00:00:22.582 when David Shapiro first started on the JSC, 11 00:00:23.243 --> 00:00:25.945 the old Johannesburg Stock Exchange in the centre of town, 12 00:00:26.305 --> 00:00:28.305 Diagonal Street, 13 00:00:27.566 --> 00:00:29.566 one of the things he would look forward to was... 14 00:00:29.568 --> 00:00:32.009 Because there were so many gold mines 15 00:00:32.269 --> 00:00:34.549 listed, 30 to 40, I don't know how many it was, 16 00:00:34.569 --> 00:00:36.569 but lots of them. 17 00:00:35.930 --> 00:00:38.851 It probably looked forward to reserves updates and trading 18 00:00:38.891 --> 00:00:41.731 updates and results coming out because that shaped the 19 00:00:41.771 --> 00:00:43.771 fortune of the market. 20 00:00:43.212 --> 00:00:45.212 Viv Govender and myself, on the other hand, 21 00:00:45.372 --> 00:00:47.372 probably have grown up looking for 22 00:00:47.773 --> 00:00:49.773 pronouncements from the US Federal Reserve. 23 00:00:49.514 --> 00:00:51.514 GDP numbers, jobs numbers, 24 00:00:51.114 --> 00:00:53.835 inflation numbers very recently have become terribly, 25 00:00:53.895 --> 00:00:55.895 terribly important. 26 00:00:54.935 --> 00:00:57.676 But one of the things started to focus. 27 00:00:58.484 --> 00:01:00.484 market participants'minds. 28 00:00:59.805 --> 00:01:02.788 And that is the set of results from a particular company 29 00:01:02.828 --> 00:01:05.770 that has a 95% monopoly in the production of 30 00:01:05.870 --> 00:01:08.612 artificial intelligence chips. 31 00:01:08.973 --> 00:01:10.973 And we know the name of the company. 32 00:01:10.694 --> 00:01:12.694 It's called 33 00:01:11.695 --> 00:01:14.577 NVIDIA. And its results came out last night 34 00:01:14.677 --> 00:01:17.359 after the market closed, immediate fall of 7%, 35 00:01:17.459 --> 00:01:19.459 8%. 36 00:01:18.460 --> 00:01:20.460 It's 8% in the share price. 37 00:01:20.022 --> 00:01:22.303 Market's recovering today from that. 38 00:01:22.443 --> 00:01:24.505 And it was inevitable that it did. 39 00:01:24.625 --> 00:01:27.027 But one line really struck me, 40 00:01:27.267 --> 00:01:29.267 and that was... 41 00:01:28.268 --> 00:01:30.989 Having blockbuster numbers is no longer good 42 00:01:31.029 --> 00:01:33.029 enough for investors. 43 00:01:32.570 --> 00:01:34.570 And I thought, well, what is good enough then? 44 00:01:34.411 --> 00:01:36.411 Viv, I'm going to start with you on this one. 45 00:01:36.651 --> 00:01:39.393 Numbers, first of all, good, bad, indifferent, better, 46 00:01:39.513 --> 00:01:41.513 worse, what? 47 00:01:41.313 --> 00:01:43.313 In any other company, good. 48 00:01:43.074 --> 00:01:46.055 But this is a company that's added over, I'd call this basically, 49 00:01:47.456 --> 00:01:49.456 well over a trillion, 50 00:01:48.236 --> 00:01:51.137 I think almost $2 trillion in the last few months 51 00:01:51.197 --> 00:01:53.197 here, you know, in less than a year. 52 00:01:53.358 --> 00:01:55.379 So for a company like that there, 53 00:01:56.099 --> 00:01:58.520 you're looking at a situation in which You know, 54 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.302 currently the valuation is what is it about $3 trillion? 55 00:02:01.842 --> 00:02:04.764 And it was it went up 150% over 56 00:02:04.764 --> 00:02:06.764 the last basically year. 57 00:02:06.325 --> 00:02:09.247 So we have that kind of increase in valuations, 58 00:02:09.627 --> 00:02:12.028 even the spectacular numbers that NVIDIA has produced 59 00:02:12.628 --> 00:02:14.710 is not enough to make the market you know, entirely happily. 60 00:02:14.770 --> 00:02:17.471 That being said, the share price is only down a couple percent. 61 00:02:18.232 --> 00:02:21.053 Still, if you had to look at it for the month today, for the last month, 62 00:02:21.053 --> 00:02:23.053 for August alone, it's up 10%, 63 00:02:23.014 --> 00:02:25.656 9.5%, 9.6%. 64 00:02:26.588 --> 00:02:29.269 So yeah, results are, for any other company, great. 65 00:02:29.589 --> 00:02:31.589 But it's all about valuation. 66 00:02:30.650 --> 00:02:33.111 And this company is incredibly expensive at the moment, 67 00:02:33.471 --> 00:02:35.471 with a PE ratio of about 71. 68 00:02:35.592 --> 00:02:37.592 That being said, one more thing to add here. 69 00:02:37.133 --> 00:02:39.133 It's very interesting looking at these things. 70 00:02:39.273 --> 00:02:41.273 Demand is still very strong. 71 00:02:40.634 --> 00:02:43.075 The situation, they have a problem. 72 00:02:43.435 --> 00:02:45.435 The problem is they can't produce enough. 73 00:02:45.536 --> 00:02:47.536 There's some issues with supply. 74 00:02:47.177 --> 00:02:49.818 And also, interestingly enough, Jensen Wong, 75 00:02:49.858 --> 00:02:51.858 the guy that runs NVIDIA. 76 00:02:51.238 --> 00:02:53.238 And this is the weird thing. 77 00:02:51.999 --> 00:02:53.999 I don't know if you guys, I told you guys this before. 78 00:02:53.799 --> 00:02:56.528 But Jensen Wong, the guy that runs NVIDIA, And Lisa Su, 79 00:02:56.548 --> 00:02:59.369 the woman that runs AMD, which is like the second competitor, 80 00:02:59.709 --> 00:03:01.709 are first cousins. 81 00:03:00.589 --> 00:03:03.510 Oh, so it's a family affair, in other words. 82 00:03:05.651 --> 00:03:07.651 But Jason Wong has an incredible life story. 83 00:03:07.331 --> 00:03:09.872 I think at one point in time, he was a boss by cleaning toilets and stuff. 84 00:03:10.192 --> 00:03:12.192 It's all in his bio. 85 00:03:12.293 --> 00:03:15.014 But he's very all in on things. 86 00:03:15.574 --> 00:03:17.574 He hasn't always been right. 87 00:03:16.454 --> 00:03:18.575 He was all in on crypto and he's all in AI. 88 00:03:18.595 --> 00:03:20.595 So what he's also doing is that in fact, 89 00:03:20.555 --> 00:03:23.436 NVIDIA is taking equity stakes in some AI startups as well. 90 00:03:23.748 --> 00:03:25.829 So it's almost turning itself into an AI ETF. 91 00:03:26.310 --> 00:03:28.310 And demand, like I said, is still super strong. 92 00:03:28.571 --> 00:03:31.554 The big question, I mean, literally the $64 trillion question, 93 00:03:31.914 --> 00:03:34.015 I'm not exaggerating when I say the trillion dollar question, 94 00:03:34.456 --> 00:03:37.318 is the fact that, is the question whether or not, 95 00:03:38.138 --> 00:03:40.820 will the next round of these LLMs be 96 00:03:41.461 --> 00:03:44.283 as much better or have as much improvement as the previous 97 00:03:44.323 --> 00:03:46.323 round does? 98 00:03:45.884 --> 00:03:47.985 How many more cranks do you have in this basically, 99 00:03:48.365 --> 00:03:50.365 in this scaling up technology? 100 00:03:49.987 --> 00:03:51.987 If it is, we could add, you know, 101 00:03:52.160 --> 00:03:54.160 These valuations are totally justified. 102 00:03:54.221 --> 00:03:56.221 If we see the next round of, 103 00:03:55.883 --> 00:03:58.584 it was GTPT5 coming out, or whatever they call it, 104 00:03:58.604 --> 00:04:01.366 Orion, Strawberry, whatever they call the new version they're going to bring out. 105 00:04:02.407 --> 00:04:04.407 When Grok 3, 106 00:04:03.208 --> 00:04:05.869 when Llama 3 comes out and whatever it may be. 107 00:04:06.250 --> 00:04:08.250 Are we going to be seeing, you know, 108 00:04:08.131 --> 00:04:11.073 the new version being as much better as 109 00:04:11.053 --> 00:04:13.053 the old version was? 110 00:04:11.994 --> 00:04:13.994 You know what I mean? 111 00:04:13.014 --> 00:04:15.014 Or its predecessor? 112 00:04:14.155 --> 00:04:16.155 If that is true, totally justified. 113 00:04:15.696 --> 00:04:17.738 If it is not, if we are hitting the top of scaling, 114 00:04:18.158 --> 00:04:21.020 if we are picking off all these valuations, it's beat for... 115 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:23.500 Nvidia, beautiful Microsoft, 116 00:04:23.001 --> 00:04:25.001 a lot of these guys are going to come down very strongly. 117 00:04:24.943 --> 00:04:26.943 David, you said to me on Monday, 118 00:04:27.105 --> 00:04:29.947 and this was repeated because you said it to Wayne McCurry as well, 119 00:04:29.987 --> 00:04:31.987 apparently. 120 00:04:30.487 --> 00:04:32.487 You said, 121 00:04:31.188 --> 00:04:33.510 you can show me these numbers when they come out. 122 00:04:33.830 --> 00:04:35.830 You said this on Monday, Tuesday, whatever it was. 123 00:04:35.872 --> 00:04:37.872 When these numbers come out, 124 00:04:36.793 --> 00:04:39.595 you can show them to me and I won't have a clue how the 125 00:04:39.635 --> 00:04:41.635 market will interpret them. 126 00:04:40.856 --> 00:04:43.218 It could be 10% up, 10% down. 127 00:04:43.638 --> 00:04:45.638 And was that the case? 128 00:04:44.579 --> 00:04:46.579 Did you have a look at them? 129 00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:47.440 Were they too complicated? 130 00:04:46.661 --> 00:04:48.661 Were they too convoluted? 131 00:04:47.982 --> 00:04:49.982 What happened? 132 00:04:49.383 --> 00:04:51.383 No, they weren't at all. 133 00:04:51.296 --> 00:04:53.296 And they were superb results. 134 00:04:53.318 --> 00:04:56.060 I mean, as Viv said at the opening, any other company. 135 00:04:56.481 --> 00:04:58.983 I mean, if you look at them in absolute terms, I mean, 136 00:04:59.023 --> 00:05:01.023 it's an incredible number. 137 00:05:01.044 --> 00:05:03.767 And particularly when this company has come 138 00:05:03.927 --> 00:05:05.927 from, you know, 139 00:05:05.708 --> 00:05:07.708 over the last couple of years. 140 00:05:07.450 --> 00:05:09.450 And the product's good. 141 00:05:08.671 --> 00:05:10.832 And as he said, 142 00:05:11.013 --> 00:05:13.013 Jensen Wong said, you know, 143 00:05:12.914 --> 00:05:15.436 we're going to be selling lots and lots of these 144 00:05:15.636 --> 00:05:18.219 Blackwell chips later on. 145 00:05:18.459 --> 00:05:20.459 Blackwell, I think. 146 00:05:20.821 --> 00:05:22.962 I don't understand how they made up, 147 00:05:23.042 --> 00:05:25.904 but I do believe that it's a better chip in the 148 00:05:25.964 --> 00:05:28.946 sense that you use less electricity and you can use the 149 00:05:28.986 --> 00:05:31.748 same hardware and process more data and so 150 00:05:31.868 --> 00:05:33.868 on. 151 00:05:32.669 --> 00:05:34.669 My point, 152 00:05:35.391 --> 00:05:37.391 when I look at it, 153 00:05:36.952 --> 00:05:39.713 at the moment it's running two laps ahead of its 154 00:05:40.174 --> 00:05:42.174 competitors. 155 00:05:41.214 --> 00:05:43.214 They might catch up. 156 00:05:43.016 --> 00:05:45.016 NVIDIA might tie up. 157 00:05:44.397 --> 00:05:47.099 But I think it's become an 158 00:05:47.159 --> 00:05:49.159 obsession in the market. 159 00:05:48.820 --> 00:05:50.820 Yes. 160 00:05:50.061 --> 00:05:52.061 You know what I mean? 161 00:05:51.082 --> 00:05:53.082 It's an absolute obsession. 162 00:05:53.003 --> 00:05:55.003 It's almost Trump versus Harris. 163 00:05:55.425 --> 00:05:57.767 You've got two sides that are going at each other. 164 00:05:57.847 --> 00:06:00.830 The bears get angry because they 165 00:06:00.930 --> 00:06:02.930 want the share to come down. 166 00:06:02.271 --> 00:06:04.373 There's massive short positions there. 167 00:06:04.713 --> 00:06:06.713 On the other hand, 168 00:06:05.494 --> 00:06:08.476 there are those that like it and are buying it and 169 00:06:08.516 --> 00:06:10.516 believe in it. 170 00:06:09.597 --> 00:06:11.597 So we're in the middle. 171 00:06:11.379 --> 00:06:13.379 And I think today's performance, 172 00:06:13.881 --> 00:06:15.881 I've been watching it, 173 00:06:15.442 --> 00:06:17.484 and everything is up today. 174 00:06:18.072 --> 00:06:20.072 The markets are incredibly strong. 175 00:06:19.772 --> 00:06:22.593 We've got a good GDP number out of the United States. 176 00:06:23.634 --> 00:06:25.934 Everything's pointing towards the U.S. 177 00:06:26.014 --> 00:06:28.014 economy doing well. 178 00:06:27.054 --> 00:06:29.255 And the one stock that's down is NVIDIA. 179 00:06:29.615 --> 00:06:31.615 Why? 180 00:06:29.955 --> 00:06:32.676 Because of this absolute emotion 181 00:06:33.196 --> 00:06:35.196 around it. 182 00:06:33.736 --> 00:06:36.057 The bears don't want to capitulate yet. 183 00:06:36.577 --> 00:06:38.577 They're going to say, we're going to show you. 184 00:06:38.438 --> 00:06:40.438 We're going to show you. 185 00:06:39.098 --> 00:06:41.358 We're going to go even further, more shorts, 186 00:06:41.758 --> 00:06:43.758 more shorts. 187 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.280 And so we're getting this fight and you just watch on the sidelines and 188 00:06:46.280 --> 00:06:48.280 say, okay. 189 00:06:47.616 --> 00:06:50.578 Whatever, but I think this year, 190 00:06:51.379 --> 00:06:53.379 the other thing, Lindsay, 191 00:06:52.340 --> 00:06:55.162 I listened to quite a few analysts as 192 00:06:55.262 --> 00:06:57.262 well. 193 00:06:55.802 --> 00:06:57.802 Yes. 194 00:06:56.303 --> 00:06:58.744 And the majority are along, 195 00:06:59.145 --> 00:07:01.145 saying buy and weakness, you know, 196 00:07:00.546 --> 00:07:03.108 with a target price 140, 150, 197 00:07:03.248 --> 00:07:05.248 even higher. 198 00:07:04.068 --> 00:07:06.068 And we're not talking about small houses. 199 00:07:05.670 --> 00:07:08.272 You know, it's not some isolated analyst or 200 00:07:08.272 --> 00:07:10.673 Hindenburg there who's trying to make a name for themselves. 201 00:07:11.154 --> 00:07:13.836 But, you know, some of the big houses, you know. 202 00:07:14.396 --> 00:07:17.118 I'm saying the analyst that we talked to as 203 00:07:17.198 --> 00:07:20.140 well from UBS in Singapore 204 00:07:20.200 --> 00:07:22.282 is bullish and continues to remain. 205 00:07:22.362 --> 00:07:24.363 And I listened to UBS this morning as well. 206 00:07:24.664 --> 00:07:26.664 The same thing. 207 00:07:25.664 --> 00:07:28.226 So I said, OK, I'm going along with this. 208 00:07:29.107 --> 00:07:32.089 I'm happy with what I see. 209 00:07:33.911 --> 00:07:35.911 But, you know, Viv is right. 210 00:07:35.892 --> 00:07:38.514 I think there will be a time where we say, OK, we've had enough. 211 00:07:38.894 --> 00:07:41.116 It's time to go look somewhere else. 212 00:07:42.140 --> 00:07:44.140 Yeah, the spoilsports, 213 00:07:44.381 --> 00:07:46.641 the bears in the market, I presume they're talking in their book. 214 00:07:46.901 --> 00:07:48.901 There was one chap that said, 215 00:07:48.462 --> 00:07:50.963 I'm not sure that this momentum can continue. 216 00:07:50.983 --> 00:07:53.723 I'm not sure that they can maintain this monopoly. 217 00:07:54.063 --> 00:07:56.684 And 95% is technically a monopoly. 218 00:07:57.124 --> 00:07:59.525 And I'm not sure that the share price 219 00:07:59.645 --> 00:08:02.186 valuation can be justified. 220 00:08:02.186 --> 00:08:04.326 So obviously saying we think it's going to come down. 221 00:08:04.746 --> 00:08:07.647 But there must be a graveyard somewhere with people that 222 00:08:07.647 --> 00:08:09.647 have shorted NVIDIA over the years. 223 00:08:09.588 --> 00:08:11.588 One, one. 224 00:08:10.428 --> 00:08:13.070 comment for this you'll appreciate and i won't mention 225 00:08:13.130 --> 00:08:16.093 anybody's name because i like the man but i 226 00:08:16.113 --> 00:08:18.815 received last night because i'd made a comment 227 00:08:19.315 --> 00:08:21.315 talking on the radio uh 228 00:08:21.377 --> 00:08:24.179 because uh jensen wrong had sold some shares i 229 00:08:24.219 --> 00:08:26.921 said you know he's also entitled to buy a hamburger and 230 00:08:26.961 --> 00:08:29.764 chips meaning listen you know sometimes you are 231 00:08:29.784 --> 00:08:32.406 allowed to cash in a bit to do something you want to buy 232 00:08:32.686 --> 00:08:35.428 you want to buy a new motor car or something you know 233 00:08:36.089 --> 00:08:38.089 it 234 00:08:36.249 --> 00:08:39.151 depends but i got a a um 235 00:08:39.331 --> 00:08:41.331 you 236 00:08:40.172 --> 00:08:43.074 a podcast or a speech that went on for 30 minutes, 237 00:08:43.455 --> 00:08:45.596 you know, doing the same as the Hindenburg 238 00:08:46.837 --> 00:08:48.837 research, you know, 239 00:08:47.918 --> 00:08:50.741 trying to find conspiracy theories about, you know, 240 00:08:50.881 --> 00:08:52.881 that's what we're up against. 241 00:08:52.722 --> 00:08:54.722 I just, okay. 242 00:08:54.544 --> 00:08:57.066 So that's people out there got incredible 243 00:08:57.106 --> 00:08:59.106 emotions about something. 244 00:08:58.527 --> 00:09:00.527 So it's a company, man. 245 00:09:00.769 --> 00:09:02.769 You know, you don't like it, sell it. 246 00:09:02.750 --> 00:09:05.472 You don't have to get, you know, we don't have to get emotive. 247 00:09:05.472 --> 00:09:07.794 We don't have to get involved physically, 248 00:09:07.914 --> 00:09:09.914 mentally and everything. 249 00:09:08.935 --> 00:09:10.935 It's just another. 250 00:09:10.656 --> 00:09:12.656 It's just another listed business. 251 00:09:13.058 --> 00:09:15.058 Yeah, and let the people enjoy its success. 252 00:09:14.979 --> 00:09:16.979 Stop trying to pick holes in it. 253 00:09:16.260 --> 00:09:18.981 Stop trying to be clever and calling the top of the 254 00:09:19.021 --> 00:09:21.021 market. 255 00:09:20.042 --> 00:09:22.042 It's just nonsense. 256 00:09:21.223 --> 00:09:23.223 Go with the momentum. 257 00:09:22.624 --> 00:09:24.905 And when it turns, you might miss the first few percent, 258 00:09:24.985 --> 00:09:27.747 but then you can start to look at offloading 259 00:09:27.987 --> 00:09:29.987 a little bit. 260 00:09:28.867 --> 00:09:30.867 I don't understand it. 261 00:09:29.688 --> 00:09:31.688 People are so impatient and so petty. 262 00:09:31.969 --> 00:09:34.451 Viv, you're neither impatient nor petty. 263 00:09:34.891 --> 00:09:37.152 If you're a big money manager, asset manager, 264 00:09:37.332 --> 00:09:40.054 and you're mainly involved in US equities. 265 00:09:40.354 --> 00:09:42.495 This presents a problem for you, not just NVIDIA, 266 00:09:42.575 --> 00:09:45.536 but also the other mega tech stocks and also some of 267 00:09:45.516 --> 00:09:47.877 the pharma companies that produce weight loss drugs. 268 00:09:48.437 --> 00:09:50.437 You have to be in them, 269 00:09:50.138 --> 00:09:52.419 even though the valuations are quite stretched. 270 00:09:52.959 --> 00:09:55.820 You have to be in them because if you're not in them, your peers are in them. 271 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.840 And when they go up, 272 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:59.642 you're going to start to fall back in the performance table. 273 00:10:00.182 --> 00:10:02.182 But on the other hand, 274 00:10:00.922 --> 00:10:03.583 if you are in them and they fall and they can fall 275 00:10:03.903 --> 00:10:05.903 because they're so stretched. 276 00:10:05.624 --> 00:10:07.887 then you're leaving your investors, 277 00:10:08.208 --> 00:10:10.208 your clients vulnerable. 278 00:10:09.690 --> 00:10:11.690 It's a double-edged sword, isn't it? 279 00:10:11.393 --> 00:10:13.393 I just wonder. 280 00:10:12.033 --> 00:10:14.878 It was like the NASPERS process days of the JSE 281 00:10:14.998 --> 00:10:17.101 when they were collectively, I think, 282 00:10:17.161 --> 00:10:19.161 something like 25%. 283 00:10:18.943 --> 00:10:20.943 It's a conundrum, Viv. 284 00:10:21.765 --> 00:10:24.106 Look, I mean, not to like talk my own book, 285 00:10:24.127 --> 00:10:26.748 but I do run one of the portfolios I run is an AI portfolio. 286 00:10:27.288 --> 00:10:29.288 And NVIDIA is my biggest position. 287 00:10:28.489 --> 00:10:30.489 It wasn't the biggest when I started off. 288 00:10:30.230 --> 00:10:32.230 I just haven't sold it since I bought it. 289 00:10:32.131 --> 00:10:34.372 And it's turned out to be my biggest position by, you know, 290 00:10:34.933 --> 00:10:36.933 a little bit here. 291 00:10:36.614 --> 00:10:38.895 And it's, you know, 292 00:10:39.015 --> 00:10:41.156 done over 170% in the last year for me. 293 00:10:41.957 --> 00:10:44.839 Because of, yeah, it's done that well. 294 00:10:45.659 --> 00:10:48.181 But I do think we have to be aware of certain things. 295 00:10:48.181 --> 00:10:50.181 I mean, you know. 296 00:10:49.305 --> 00:10:51.305 We always say, look at history. 297 00:10:50.846 --> 00:10:53.047 Most people look at history, look back to the year 2000, or not, 298 00:10:53.027 --> 00:10:55.748 the year 1947, 299 00:10:55.748 --> 00:10:57.748 1950. 300 00:10:57.288 --> 00:10:59.288 Right about there, because that's after World War II. 301 00:10:58.849 --> 00:11:00.849 That's when they look back at history. 302 00:11:00.130 --> 00:11:02.130 They have a 70-year history. 303 00:11:01.230 --> 00:11:03.230 But looking back at the longer term, 304 00:11:02.931 --> 00:11:05.772 where we do have these gigantic 305 00:11:06.072 --> 00:11:08.072 technological revolutionaries, 306 00:11:07.112 --> 00:11:09.112 what I would expect out there is sailing. 307 00:11:09.673 --> 00:11:11.854 Sailing turned a little country off the coast of 308 00:11:12.254 --> 00:11:14.796 Europe, England, into the world's superpower. 309 00:11:16.556 --> 00:11:18.556 If you look at all of history, you would have never thought 310 00:11:18.557 --> 00:11:21.198 it's possible for a tiny little nation, you know, 311 00:11:21.458 --> 00:11:24.419 like it was, to be this dominant over the world, you know, 312 00:11:24.439 --> 00:11:26.439 bigger than the Roman Empire. 313 00:11:25.819 --> 00:11:27.819 And it was all about technology. 314 00:11:27.119 --> 00:11:29.119 If this technology is real, 315 00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:31.360 the valuations and the expectations we have of what a company 316 00:11:31.461 --> 00:11:33.781 can be worth is just out the window. 317 00:11:34.181 --> 00:11:36.622 It could be something like, you know, turning it, you know, 318 00:11:37.422 --> 00:11:39.903 a $10 plus trillion valuation on Nvidia 319 00:11:40.303 --> 00:11:42.564 is not out of the limits if this thing is real. 320 00:11:42.624 --> 00:11:44.624 Because what happens is then you get into 321 00:11:45.524 --> 00:11:47.805 a basically money for IQ kind of situation. 322 00:11:49.342 --> 00:11:51.342 If you have more money, you can buy more chips. 323 00:11:50.943 --> 00:11:52.943 The more chips will give you a higher IQ. 324 00:11:52.524 --> 00:11:54.524 The higher IQ earns you more money from your AI. 325 00:11:54.626 --> 00:11:56.626 That's what it is. 326 00:11:55.526 --> 00:11:57.526 And that becomes a feedback loop. 327 00:11:57.067 --> 00:12:00.029 And the guy that basically provides the chips is the one that's guaranteed to make 328 00:11:59.409 --> 00:12:01.409 money all the 329 00:12:00.049 --> 00:12:02.049 way through. 330 00:12:01.090 --> 00:12:03.090 And I think that's what is happening right now. 331 00:12:02.691 --> 00:12:05.613 That's the belief system they have in the tech market right now. 332 00:12:05.994 --> 00:12:07.994 And 333 00:12:06.594 --> 00:12:09.516 NVIDIA is not like some of these like cryptocurrencies or whatever that 334 00:12:09.556 --> 00:12:11.678 went up in national evaluation, but there's nothing basic. 335 00:12:12.038 --> 00:12:14.038 They do a $50 billion buyback, 336 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:16.081 $5 billion buyback, share buyback. 337 00:12:16.513 --> 00:12:18.513 They are printing money hand over first. 338 00:12:19.735 --> 00:12:22.596 So, oh, but this is a very profitable business. 339 00:12:22.997 --> 00:12:25.478 The only question is whether that this profitability justifies the 340 00:12:25.518 --> 00:12:27.518 $3 trillion valuation. 341 00:12:28.220 --> 00:12:30.220 So that is the only question I'll ever get. 342 00:12:29.781 --> 00:12:32.262 As a business, it's doing incredibly well. 343 00:12:32.962 --> 00:12:34.962 It's doing incredibly well. 344 00:12:34.723 --> 00:12:37.185 Sorry to interrupt. 345 00:12:38.726 --> 00:12:40.726 One last thing. 346 00:12:39.726 --> 00:12:42.528 This is not going to take five years to find out whether this is real or not. 347 00:12:43.148 --> 00:12:45.148 It's going to happen within the next... 348 00:12:44.965 --> 00:12:46.965 I would say six months to nine months. 349 00:12:46.746 --> 00:12:48.746 By the first quarter of next year, 350 00:12:48.947 --> 00:12:50.947 you will know what GPT-5 looks like. 351 00:12:50.787 --> 00:12:53.609 You will know what the next level of GROK, I think the level four, 352 00:12:53.709 --> 00:12:56.690 GROK-3, GPT-5, CLOB-4, whatever it's going to be. 353 00:12:57.590 --> 00:13:00.151 These things will be out by this first quarter of next year. 354 00:13:01.032 --> 00:13:03.032 The problem we have here, 355 00:13:01.892 --> 00:13:04.293 as the chief technology officer of 356 00:13:04.553 --> 00:13:07.455 Microsoft said this, we are the exponential curve, 357 00:13:07.815 --> 00:13:09.815 right? 358 00:13:08.475 --> 00:13:10.475 The exponential curve is AI. 359 00:13:10.036 --> 00:13:12.337 The problem is that we are limited by hardware. 360 00:13:12.337 --> 00:13:14.337 So we only take... 361 00:13:13.737 --> 00:13:15.778 a reading of this exponential curve every 362 00:13:16.878 --> 00:13:19.199 couple of years because that's when the hardware shifts up to the next level. 363 00:13:20.139 --> 00:13:22.280 And we're going to want to get the next point of that curve. 364 00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:25.541 We kind of know what a good point looks like, what a bad point looks like, 365 00:13:26.181 --> 00:13:28.181 and we're going to see, like I said, 366 00:13:27.501 --> 00:13:29.501 within basically the next six months, 367 00:13:29.762 --> 00:13:31.762 what the next point looks like. 368 00:13:30.902 --> 00:13:32.943 And we'll know for certain, overwiped or not. 369 00:13:33.183 --> 00:13:35.183 It's not going to be a question. 370 00:13:35.243 --> 00:13:37.243 Okay. 371 00:13:35.924 --> 00:13:37.924 David, you wanted to say something. 372 00:13:38.084 --> 00:13:40.145 I just think, you know, listening to Viv, 373 00:13:40.661 --> 00:13:42.661 Yeah, he's right. 374 00:13:41.942 --> 00:13:43.942 I mean, this is nothing new. 375 00:13:43.142 --> 00:13:45.142 But the beauty is that 376 00:13:45.624 --> 00:13:48.165 I don't know how much money Viv has got and how much he 377 00:13:48.205 --> 00:13:50.205 controls. 378 00:13:49.166 --> 00:13:51.166 But I promise you, 379 00:13:49.946 --> 00:13:52.868 for what I and I'm okay. 380 00:13:52.928 --> 00:13:54.928 I've got a nice business. 381 00:13:54.589 --> 00:13:56.589 I press one button, we're out. 382 00:13:56.410 --> 00:13:58.410 You know, that's it. 383 00:13:58.191 --> 00:14:00.191 I don't have to labor over it. 384 00:14:00.512 --> 00:14:02.512 Let's get out. 385 00:14:02.013 --> 00:14:04.013 Done. 386 00:14:03.174 --> 00:14:06.095 That's relative to where 387 00:14:06.195 --> 00:14:08.195 we are. 388 00:14:06.816 --> 00:14:08.816 And that's why I like to 389 00:14:09.129 --> 00:14:12.091 I don't think we have to make decisions yet on the PEs or 390 00:14:12.111 --> 00:14:14.111 anything. 391 00:14:12.451 --> 00:14:15.374 And when it comes back, we might give it back. 392 00:14:15.834 --> 00:14:17.834 Or you said it, I think, Lindsay. 393 00:14:17.335 --> 00:14:19.335 Give it back a few points. 394 00:14:18.956 --> 00:14:20.956 Are we gone? 395 00:14:19.957 --> 00:14:21.957 Okay. 396 00:14:20.217 --> 00:14:22.439 You know, we're up so much. 397 00:14:22.499 --> 00:14:25.401 I promise you, Viv bought these at 10 cents. 398 00:14:25.461 --> 00:14:28.163 I mean, $10 at the moment, relative, 399 00:14:28.163 --> 00:14:31.145 because it's split a couple of times, 120. 400 00:14:31.666 --> 00:14:34.508 He's got a margin there that's as big as the Indian 401 00:14:34.628 --> 00:14:36.628 Ocean. 402 00:14:41.892 --> 00:14:44.654 very good okay so we're sticking with we're not panicking we're not 403 00:14:44.694 --> 00:14:47.195 being naysayers we're not being uh 404 00:14:47.395 --> 00:14:50.157 predictors of doom and gloom we just stay with the 405 00:14:50.217 --> 00:14:53.018 thing it's a brilliant company there hasn't been a company like it in the 406 00:14:53.058 --> 00:14:55.940 last few years i can't even think of a comparison i can 407 00:14:55.980 --> 00:14:58.781 think of you know the microsoft and the apples of this world yeah 408 00:14:58.861 --> 00:15:01.783 brilliant but this thing has captured the imagination like no 409 00:15:01.903 --> 00:15:04.885 company i've ever seen in my career now 410 00:15:04.945 --> 00:15:06.945 then david let's cut 411 00:15:05.885 --> 00:15:08.387 come back down to earth and talk about the jse 412 00:15:08.768 --> 00:15:11.730 uh today blue label impala i can't remember san 413 00:15:11.770 --> 00:15:14.613 lem or santan had a trading update but one i had one yeah 414 00:15:15.194 --> 00:15:17.996 the trading updates on numbers but anyway i don't really want to talk 415 00:15:18.036 --> 00:15:20.839 about them too much i want to talk about one that you know quite 416 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.541 well because it was it's split the original 417 00:15:23.581 --> 00:15:26.123 company founded by your mate brian joffey 418 00:15:26.604 --> 00:15:29.486 as split and we got bid vest in south africa bid corp the 419 00:15:29.506 --> 00:15:31.648 international operation food distribution etc 420 00:15:32.389 --> 00:15:34.389 What a set of numbers. 421 00:15:33.350 --> 00:15:36.313 I mean, they said in the opening, you think, oh, 422 00:15:36.353 --> 00:15:38.353 goodness me, these numbers are not going to be good. 423 00:15:37.914 --> 00:15:40.816 It said because of this, this, this, and the economic that, 424 00:15:40.896 --> 00:15:42.896 and this, the other. 425 00:15:41.717 --> 00:15:44.219 In other words, really quite gloomy stuff. 426 00:15:44.760 --> 00:15:46.760 And then they say we increased our revenue by 427 00:15:46.601 --> 00:15:48.601 15.1%. 428 00:15:48.143 --> 00:15:50.425 Incredible numbers for a company like that. 429 00:15:52.346 --> 00:15:54.346 There's a story there. 430 00:15:54.087 --> 00:15:56.087 And, you know, I mean, 431 00:15:56.128 --> 00:15:58.928 I know Brian very well from my 432 00:15:59.329 --> 00:16:01.329 old Greensight days and everything. 433 00:16:01.109 --> 00:16:03.109 And I grew with the company. 434 00:16:02.730 --> 00:16:04.730 And when I say I grew, I wasn't. 435 00:16:04.050 --> 00:16:06.050 I was an outsider looking in. 436 00:16:05.931 --> 00:16:07.931 There's a story I'll tell you about it. 437 00:16:07.991 --> 00:16:10.592 But what we learned from this 438 00:16:10.672 --> 00:16:13.413 operation, from both Bitvest and 439 00:16:13.933 --> 00:16:16.454 Bitcore, was management. 440 00:16:18.271 --> 00:16:20.393 I was talking to Wayne last night, the DNA, 441 00:16:20.633 --> 00:16:22.633 the DNA of management, 442 00:16:23.355 --> 00:16:25.355 good practices all the way. 443 00:16:25.537 --> 00:16:28.119 And that's exactly how they've run this operation. 444 00:16:28.259 --> 00:16:30.421 Bernard is a superb manager as well. 445 00:16:30.761 --> 00:16:32.761 This is not complicated. 446 00:16:32.223 --> 00:16:35.165 What they do is they get food and they deliver it 447 00:16:35.205 --> 00:16:37.205 to a restaurant. 448 00:16:37.047 --> 00:16:39.047 I mean, how difficult is that? 449 00:16:39.008 --> 00:16:41.110 They get cheese or they put… 450 00:16:41.970 --> 00:16:43.971 little sugar things, you know, they get those made, 451 00:16:44.011 --> 00:16:46.712 those things that you tear open and put into your coffee. 452 00:16:47.153 --> 00:16:49.153 It's not a complicated business. 453 00:16:48.793 --> 00:16:50.793 It's just a very, 454 00:16:50.654 --> 00:16:52.654 very well-run business. 455 00:16:52.755 --> 00:16:55.676 So you're not going to get AI-type returns out of 456 00:16:55.676 --> 00:16:57.676 this, but you're going to get solid, 457 00:16:57.537 --> 00:17:00.358 good numbers on a persistent basis. 458 00:17:00.778 --> 00:17:02.919 And a dividend, which I think was up 16%, 459 00:17:02.999 --> 00:17:05.400 wasn't it? 460 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:07.440 Yeah. 461 00:17:06.161 --> 00:17:08.161 And it's a nice dividend. 462 00:17:07.681 --> 00:17:09.681 It gives you a very good return. 463 00:17:09.482 --> 00:17:11.903 The other point is even if you look at Bitvest, 464 00:17:11.943 --> 00:17:14.245 the DNA exists in that business. 465 00:17:14.285 --> 00:17:16.546 They don't do anything stupid. 466 00:17:16.546 --> 00:17:19.487 The last stupid thing that Joffrey did was he bought 467 00:17:20.428 --> 00:17:23.349 Adcorp Ingram 10 years ago 468 00:17:23.369 --> 00:17:25.369 at 75. 469 00:17:24.130 --> 00:17:26.130 Still hasn't made his money back. 470 00:17:25.431 --> 00:17:27.431 But, I mean, 471 00:17:26.991 --> 00:17:28.991 that's the last silly thing they did. 472 00:17:28.892 --> 00:17:31.554 But they all get out of it and they'll work their way 473 00:17:31.794 --> 00:17:33.794 from it. 474 00:17:33.055 --> 00:17:35.055 And I just say that tongue-in-cheek. 475 00:17:34.636 --> 00:17:37.357 But I think that's the point that I 476 00:17:37.417 --> 00:17:39.417 really want to bring across. 477 00:17:38.738 --> 00:17:40.738 It's. 478 00:17:39.342 --> 00:17:42.144 you know well breweries was like that in the same 479 00:17:42.204 --> 00:17:45.167 way you know what i mean sab they just got 480 00:17:45.347 --> 00:17:48.129 solid good manager and they train up these 481 00:17:48.249 --> 00:17:51.192 people and they've got the same culture that goes 482 00:17:51.312 --> 00:17:54.134 right through the business so i think if you 483 00:17:54.154 --> 00:17:56.636 wanted to explain it that's the best way to explain it 484 00:17:57.017 --> 00:17:59.017 yeah good 485 00:17:58.838 --> 00:18:01.420 and the other thing is about these numbers before we move on to 486 00:18:01.901 --> 00:18:04.583 market prices is that the growth was 487 00:18:04.643 --> 00:18:07.405 organic they didn't go out buying companies in germany or the 488 00:18:07.465 --> 00:18:09.465 netherlands or whatever 489 00:18:08.626 --> 00:18:11.188 It was purely internal growth. 490 00:18:11.288 --> 00:18:13.589 And again, that comes down to management, David. 491 00:18:14.570 --> 00:18:16.570 Totally. 492 00:18:15.430 --> 00:18:17.430 Absolutely. 493 00:18:19.773 --> 00:18:21.773 You know, they don't do something. 494 00:18:21.174 --> 00:18:24.035 If it doesn't fit, they leave it alone. 495 00:18:25.116 --> 00:18:27.177 If it's not the right price, leave it alone. 496 00:18:27.537 --> 00:18:29.537 And even 497 00:18:28.958 --> 00:18:31.420 Bitvest, which is now expanding offshore, 498 00:18:31.940 --> 00:18:34.842 if you see the businesses, they kind of bolt on businesses. 499 00:18:35.022 --> 00:18:37.022 You know. 500 00:18:35.542 --> 00:18:37.542 They're not going into anything new. 501 00:18:37.123 --> 00:18:39.424 It fits into the existing operations, 502 00:18:39.464 --> 00:18:42.426 whether it's cleaning toilets in a building or whatever, 503 00:18:43.266 --> 00:18:45.988 the Steiner-type 504 00:18:48.349 --> 00:18:50.349 health situation. 505 00:18:51.511 --> 00:18:53.912 So it's a good operation, 506 00:18:54.032 --> 00:18:56.032 and I wish people could learn from it, 507 00:18:55.633 --> 00:18:57.633 and I wish other businesses could learn. 508 00:18:58.115 --> 00:19:00.716 And you also have to understand management as well. 509 00:19:01.236 --> 00:19:03.236 Joffrey was there to build a legacy. 510 00:19:03.237 --> 00:19:05.237 He wasn't there. 511 00:19:04.650 --> 00:19:07.632 to fill his bank with options or to fill his 512 00:19:07.672 --> 00:19:09.672 back pocket with options. 513 00:19:09.333 --> 00:19:11.333 He did well. 514 00:19:10.293 --> 00:19:13.075 I'm not complaining, but it was, you know, 515 00:19:13.095 --> 00:19:15.095 he wanted to build a legacy. 516 00:19:14.916 --> 00:19:16.916 And I think that legacy continues. 517 00:19:17.838 --> 00:19:19.838 Okay. 518 00:19:18.138 --> 00:19:20.138 Well summarized, David. 519 00:19:19.018 --> 00:19:21.018 Thank you for that. 520 00:19:20.159 --> 00:19:22.380 Now I shall summarize the markets. 521 00:19:22.900 --> 00:19:25.562 Where the dollar round is nice and steady ahead of what is 522 00:19:25.602 --> 00:19:28.143 essentially a long weekend in the United States for America. 523 00:19:28.484 --> 00:19:30.484 Incidentally, 524 00:19:28.984 --> 00:19:31.865 this week has been relatively quiet outside of NVIDIA 525 00:19:32.226 --> 00:19:35.059 because We've been sandwiched between two public holidays, 526 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:37.939 one in London on Monday and one in the United States the 527 00:19:38.019 --> 00:19:40.019 coming Monday this weekend, 528 00:19:40.180 --> 00:19:42.901 where everybody gets in cars and gets on aeroplanes. 529 00:19:43.381 --> 00:19:46.182 And this is a signal of the end of the US 530 00:19:46.382 --> 00:19:48.382 holiday season. 531 00:19:47.622 --> 00:19:49.622 Labour Day on Monday, 532 00:19:48.922 --> 00:19:51.863 everyone starts drifting back to work from the Hamptons and the 533 00:19:51.883 --> 00:19:53.883 Bahamas. 534 00:19:52.683 --> 00:19:54.683 That's my theory anyway. 535 00:19:53.744 --> 00:19:56.324 OK, dollar round, 1777, 536 00:19:56.405 --> 00:19:59.365 British pound against the round, 2338. 537 00:19:59.365 --> 00:20:01.526 Euro round, 1968. 538 00:20:01.886 --> 00:20:04.087 Euro dollar, 1.1075. 539 00:20:04.087 --> 00:20:06.087 That was 1.12 a couple of days ago. 540 00:20:06.309 --> 00:20:09.030 So the euro losing ground against the dollar. 541 00:20:09.050 --> 00:20:11.050 You know why? 542 00:20:09.671 --> 00:20:11.671 Why is that? 543 00:20:10.191 --> 00:20:12.191 Because of GDP? 544 00:20:10.812 --> 00:20:12.812 Because they talk about rate cuts, yeah. 545 00:20:12.172 --> 00:20:15.114 They talk about rate cuts, I think, 546 00:20:15.194 --> 00:20:17.194 shortly in the euro. 547 00:20:16.275 --> 00:20:18.275 So I think that's why it's weak and slow. 548 00:20:18.216 --> 00:20:20.216 Okay, thank you for that. 549 00:20:19.377 --> 00:20:21.538 British pound against the dollar, 1.3160. 550 00:20:22.098 --> 00:20:24.098 Bell price, that's doing all right. 551 00:20:23.859 --> 00:20:26.261 It's up 20 bucks to 25.22. 552 00:20:26.701 --> 00:20:28.701 Platinum for once. 553 00:20:28.394 --> 00:20:31.377 And Palladium for once going up $13 up for platinum to 554 00:20:31.377 --> 00:20:33.377 $9.47. 555 00:20:33.078 --> 00:20:35.640 And Palladium $9.70 up 556 00:20:35.780 --> 00:20:37.780 $36. 557 00:20:37.542 --> 00:20:40.324 The oil price now suddenly jumped again. 558 00:20:40.324 --> 00:20:43.127 We had that bit of a flurry because of the eastern 559 00:20:43.607 --> 00:20:46.109 Libyan oil fields being shut down 560 00:20:46.169 --> 00:20:48.169 temporarily. 561 00:20:46.750 --> 00:20:48.750 And I thought, well, that was just a flash in the pan. 562 00:20:48.611 --> 00:20:51.394 And they're sitting around the table and resolving their differences. 563 00:20:51.454 --> 00:20:53.454 Two governments, of course, in Libya. 564 00:20:53.055 --> 00:20:55.055 Brent Crudeau, $80.22, 565 00:20:55.257 --> 00:20:57.257 up bang on 2%. 566 00:20:56.882 --> 00:20:58.882 And West Texas crude, $76.43, 567 00:20:59.904 --> 00:21:01.904 up just over 2.5%. 568 00:21:02.105 --> 00:21:04.105 And what else have we got? 569 00:21:02.906 --> 00:21:04.906 Copper had a bad day yesterday, 570 00:21:04.867 --> 00:21:07.369 and it's having another one today, 1.9% weaker, 571 00:21:07.489 --> 00:21:09.670 just below $4.14 per 572 00:21:10.171 --> 00:21:12.171 pound. 573 00:21:11.051 --> 00:21:13.051 Nothing else really to speak of there. 574 00:21:13.012 --> 00:21:15.534 S&P 500 futures really looked 575 00:21:15.614 --> 00:21:18.256 terrible after the NVIDIA results yesterday. 576 00:21:18.556 --> 00:21:20.556 I think they went down to something like, 577 00:21:20.577 --> 00:21:22.577 I think they went down to... 578 00:21:23.044 --> 00:21:25.044 55.20 or something. 579 00:21:24.886 --> 00:21:26.886 They're now back up 580 00:21:26.127 --> 00:21:28.669 56.53, which is up three quarters 581 00:21:29.069 --> 00:21:31.069 of a percent. 582 00:21:30.250 --> 00:21:32.431 The US 10-year Treasury bond yield, 583 00:21:32.431 --> 00:21:34.431 3.89 percent. 584 00:21:34.913 --> 00:21:36.913 And the South African 10-year yield, 585 00:21:36.674 --> 00:21:39.296 9.32 percent. 586 00:21:39.797 --> 00:21:41.797 Also jumping a bit. 587 00:21:41.338 --> 00:21:44.160 And as for Bitcoin, well, it's back above 588 00:21:44.560 --> 00:21:47.342 60s, just below 61,000, up around about 589 00:21:48.003 --> 00:21:50.003 3 percent. 590 00:21:49.608 --> 00:21:51.608 Viv, apart from all your AI stuff, 591 00:21:51.069 --> 00:21:53.530 do you have a domestic portfolio as well 592 00:21:54.010 --> 00:21:56.010 on behalf of clients? 593 00:21:56.891 --> 00:21:58.972 You have to because you do Regulation 28 business, 594 00:21:58.972 --> 00:22:00.972 you have to have something local. 595 00:22:01.633 --> 00:22:03.633 That being said, you know, 596 00:22:02.593 --> 00:22:05.114 we do get out of the Regulation 28 space when you have living in New 597 00:22:05.394 --> 00:22:07.394 Zealand, so we tend to go much more offshore. 598 00:22:08.276 --> 00:22:10.276 Yeah, of course. 599 00:22:09.536 --> 00:22:11.536 And why wouldn't you? 600 00:22:10.757 --> 00:22:12.817 Historically, that would serve you well. 601 00:22:13.258 --> 00:22:15.298 David, on the movers on the JSC, 602 00:22:15.358 --> 00:22:17.539 I'll come up with mine in a moment, but maybe you start. 603 00:22:17.539 --> 00:22:19.539 What have you seen? 604 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:20.180 Any themes today? 605 00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.960 Not really. 606 00:22:21.801 --> 00:22:24.442 I think it's been very, very quiet. 607 00:22:24.802 --> 00:22:26.802 You know, just before, 608 00:22:25.703 --> 00:22:28.624 I wanted to see a comparison because just as before we came 609 00:22:28.644 --> 00:22:30.644 on air. 610 00:22:29.265 --> 00:22:31.265 Yeah. 611 00:22:29.705 --> 00:22:31.705 In fact, yeah, 612 00:22:31.906 --> 00:22:34.108 I can't believe this unless I haven't updated. 613 00:22:35.688 --> 00:22:37.688 For me, 614 00:22:36.389 --> 00:22:39.150 it looks like the value traded was around about 615 00:22:39.230 --> 00:22:41.230 $10 billion. 616 00:22:40.491 --> 00:22:43.353 But I'm not sure because that's what I saw before the 617 00:22:43.373 --> 00:22:45.373 closing auction. 618 00:22:44.193 --> 00:22:46.193 So I'm not sure if this is updated. 619 00:22:46.355 --> 00:22:48.676 But very, very low levels of activity. 620 00:22:49.372 --> 00:22:51.953 And, you know, 621 00:22:53.153 --> 00:22:56.074 what has dominated in a big way, 622 00:22:56.294 --> 00:22:59.135 Lindsay, has been the financials. 623 00:22:59.435 --> 00:23:01.436 I know Bitcoin is up again today. 624 00:23:01.436 --> 00:23:03.436 It had a very good run yesterday, 625 00:23:03.276 --> 00:23:05.276 up another 3% on that. 626 00:23:04.777 --> 00:23:07.558 But if I had to identify anything, 627 00:23:08.118 --> 00:23:10.879 it's an incredible run in banks and financials, 628 00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:14.400 supported by some of the miners as well. 629 00:23:15.196 --> 00:23:17.196 The miners yesterday were horrible, 630 00:23:16.676 --> 00:23:18.957 2.5% down for the resources index. 631 00:23:19.077 --> 00:23:22.018 And the bottom five was populated by the diggers. 632 00:23:22.338 --> 00:23:24.338 But today, 633 00:23:25.699 --> 00:23:27.699 the Bitcoin story is an interesting one. 634 00:23:27.199 --> 00:23:30.020 Because when I see a stock rally 4.5% 635 00:23:30.080 --> 00:23:32.981 like it did yesterday on its results, you think, ah, 636 00:23:32.981 --> 00:23:34.981 it's maybe a few shorts in the market. 637 00:23:34.741 --> 00:23:36.741 It's just a flash in the pan. 638 00:23:36.282 --> 00:23:38.282 But there's been buying. 639 00:23:37.242 --> 00:23:39.263 People have gone through those numbers, to my mind. 640 00:23:39.583 --> 00:23:41.583 And they've said, OK, 641 00:23:40.903 --> 00:23:42.903 let's load up on this dividend. 642 00:23:43.564 --> 00:23:45.564 Great story. 643 00:23:44.704 --> 00:23:47.627 organic growth it's just doing well overseas unlike 644 00:23:47.667 --> 00:23:50.569 some south african companies over the decades but anyway bid 645 00:23:50.609 --> 00:23:53.392 core up three and two-thirds percent today sun them 646 00:23:53.392 --> 00:23:56.254 3.2 percent higher pan-african resources up three 647 00:23:56.374 --> 00:23:59.137 anglo gold up for two and three quarters i think it went 648 00:23:59.197 --> 00:24:02.159 ex-div yesterday so back up today sun international 649 00:24:02.539 --> 00:24:05.382 up 2.7 percent downside serious down 650 00:24:05.422 --> 00:24:08.224 three percent impala platinum another two and a half percent weaker 651 00:24:08.605 --> 00:24:10.867 investec plc has lost two and a half percent 652 00:24:11.227 --> 00:24:13.428 quilter down Nearly 2%. 653 00:24:13.468 --> 00:24:15.468 The volume yesterday, David, 654 00:24:15.609 --> 00:24:17.609 was 21 billion. 655 00:24:17.269 --> 00:24:19.269 So maybe people just said, right, 656 00:24:18.610 --> 00:24:20.870 we've got to square our books up ahead of the long weekend. 657 00:24:21.131 --> 00:24:24.051 And that is why today's volumes are so low because everyone's given up. 658 00:24:24.091 --> 00:24:26.091 I don't know. 659 00:24:24.832 --> 00:24:26.832 Again, what? 660 00:24:25.352 --> 00:24:27.352 Yeah, exactly. 661 00:24:27.032 --> 00:24:29.032 It has updated. 662 00:24:28.233 --> 00:24:30.233 Nothing great. 663 00:24:29.093 --> 00:24:31.093 15 billion. 664 00:24:29.953 --> 00:24:32.374 So quite a bit came through right at the end. 665 00:24:32.614 --> 00:24:34.614 But it was, you know, that's, 666 00:24:34.575 --> 00:24:36.575 I think that's just the order of the day. 667 00:24:36.375 --> 00:24:38.375 That's what we see every day. 668 00:24:37.976 --> 00:24:39.976 So when you look at volumes. 669 00:24:39.636 --> 00:24:41.918 There's a lot of squaring towards the end of the day 670 00:24:42.498 --> 00:24:44.559 as you get the balancing. 671 00:24:44.659 --> 00:24:46.659 But volume is incredibly low. 672 00:24:46.921 --> 00:24:49.283 And that's why you see these wide movements. 673 00:24:50.684 --> 00:24:53.125 Lindsay, the other point on BitCore, 674 00:24:53.345 --> 00:24:56.047 when you actually look into the JSC 675 00:24:56.948 --> 00:24:59.830 and you want to build a portfolio, 676 00:24:59.870 --> 00:25:02.732 because remember, pension funds, you're still getting all those 677 00:25:03.653 --> 00:25:05.894 contributions that come in on a monthly basis. 678 00:25:05.894 --> 00:25:08.576 It's so difficult to put together a portfolio. 679 00:25:08.836 --> 00:25:10.836 It really is. 680 00:25:11.017 --> 00:25:13.317 And I think one of the 681 00:25:13.397 --> 00:25:16.278 obstacles is the volatility that 682 00:25:16.318 --> 00:25:18.339 we're seeing in the mining industry. 683 00:25:18.619 --> 00:25:20.619 It hasn't bottomed yet. 684 00:25:19.999 --> 00:25:21.999 It's still trying to find a bottom. 685 00:25:22.340 --> 00:25:25.061 So if you look through South32's numbers today, 686 00:25:25.101 --> 00:25:27.101 you look through Impala's, 687 00:25:27.442 --> 00:25:30.322 you've still got a very there are a lot of 688 00:25:30.342 --> 00:25:32.342 difficulties there. 689 00:25:31.643 --> 00:25:33.643 They're talking good, 690 00:25:32.403 --> 00:25:35.304 but it goes through BHP numbers as 691 00:25:35.364 --> 00:25:37.364 well. 692 00:25:36.448 --> 00:25:39.091 So our market is kind of being tossed 693 00:25:39.151 --> 00:25:41.151 aside by that, you know, one day up, 694 00:25:40.892 --> 00:25:42.892 one day down in resources. 695 00:25:42.614 --> 00:25:44.876 But to put a portfolio together is so difficult. 696 00:25:45.356 --> 00:25:47.779 Just briefly staying with you, David, closing indices, if you would. 697 00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:50.759 Yeah. 698 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:51.440 So the 699 00:25:50.581 --> 00:25:53.183 All Share Index ended up about 700 00:25:53.704 --> 00:25:55.704 a quarter percent, 701 00:25:54.144 --> 00:25:57.227 8,4239. 702 00:25:57.587 --> 00:26:00.570 The resource index came back from being all over the 703 00:26:00.610 --> 00:26:02.610 place, up a half a percent as well. 704 00:26:02.692 --> 00:26:05.594 even though some of the big miners were in negative 705 00:26:05.634 --> 00:26:07.634 territory. 706 00:26:07.076 --> 00:26:09.998 You know, Anglos, Glencore, African Rainbow Minerals, 707 00:26:10.518 --> 00:26:12.518 Amplats, Impala were all negative, 708 00:26:12.580 --> 00:26:15.522 but still managed to creep in the half a percent. 709 00:26:15.562 --> 00:26:18.304 And I think the gold shares kept the precious 710 00:26:18.364 --> 00:26:20.364 metals and mining index up. 711 00:26:20.286 --> 00:26:22.828 There were gains in Anglo Gold, Goldfields, Harmony, 712 00:26:22.888 --> 00:26:24.888 and so on. 713 00:26:24.309 --> 00:26:26.309 Banks, yeah. 714 00:26:25.914 --> 00:26:27.914 0.4 of a percent, 715 00:26:27.995 --> 00:26:29.995 nothing dramatic there. 716 00:26:29.416 --> 00:26:32.017 And industrials, 717 00:26:32.257 --> 00:26:34.257 hardly better. 718 00:26:33.918 --> 00:26:35.918 Consumer discretionary down. 719 00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.461 And I think the reason for that is that if you 720 00:26:38.481 --> 00:26:41.342 look at ABM, they have Richmond, Process, British American, 721 00:26:41.442 --> 00:26:43.584 Placo, NASPAS all down, 722 00:26:43.704 --> 00:26:45.704 all in negative territory as well. 723 00:26:45.084 --> 00:26:48.046 So all the big ones, offshore-based, were down. 724 00:26:48.186 --> 00:26:50.186 So that's what we're getting. 725 00:26:49.927 --> 00:26:51.927 It's all over the place. 726 00:26:51.008 --> 00:26:53.008 You mentioned some of the gainers, 727 00:26:53.089 --> 00:26:55.290 but they don't really have a lot of... 728 00:26:56.714 --> 00:26:58.714 in a sway in the overall index. 729 00:26:59.175 --> 00:27:01.436 Viv, earlier on, just to end this, Viv, 730 00:27:01.476 --> 00:27:03.476 you mentioned Britain, a tiny little island, 731 00:27:03.856 --> 00:27:05.857 and advances in sailing, et cetera, 732 00:27:06.017 --> 00:27:08.618 and off they went and they dominated at one stage. 733 00:27:09.218 --> 00:27:11.218 In those days, 734 00:27:09.738 --> 00:27:12.619 the British Empire was represented by pink on a 735 00:27:12.659 --> 00:27:14.659 map or a globe, 736 00:27:14.019 --> 00:27:16.980 and 40% of the world was administered 737 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.781 or owned in a way, people can own countries, 738 00:27:20.121 --> 00:27:22.442 owned by Britain. It's not a particularly... 739 00:27:22.722 --> 00:27:25.623 a glorious moment in British history because there was a 740 00:27:25.643 --> 00:27:28.465 good deal of brutality meted out to other countries. 741 00:27:28.725 --> 00:27:31.566 But the fact is that Britain has always been fairly innovative 742 00:27:31.586 --> 00:27:33.887 until along came Tony Blair, 743 00:27:34.107 --> 00:27:36.107 Boris Johnson, Liz Truss, 744 00:27:36.749 --> 00:27:38.749 Rishi Sunak, 745 00:27:38.350 --> 00:27:40.891 and now the awful Sakhir Starmer dragging us 746 00:27:41.571 --> 00:27:44.132 backwards and never to 747 00:27:44.192 --> 00:27:46.192 recover. 748 00:27:44.693 --> 00:27:46.714 I mean, unless someone extraordinary comes along. 749 00:27:47.774 --> 00:27:49.774 You mentioned sailing. 750 00:27:48.955 --> 00:27:50.996 Now, I don't know if you follow this sort of thing, 751 00:27:51.016 --> 00:27:53.718 but occasionally you'll see a snippet on the news. 752 00:27:54.199 --> 00:27:56.199 The America's Cup started in 753 00:27:56.020 --> 00:27:58.020 1851. 754 00:27:57.601 --> 00:28:00.363 It's the oldest international sporting event in 755 00:28:00.383 --> 00:28:02.383 history. 756 00:28:01.183 --> 00:28:03.385 It started then and it's been going on since then. 757 00:28:03.705 --> 00:28:05.867 I don't know if you've seen the technology of the New Yorks. 758 00:28:05.887 --> 00:28:07.888 I used to watch it just out of 759 00:28:08.589 --> 00:28:10.589 interest. 760 00:28:09.269 --> 00:28:12.171 And you see the crew on the deck of this catamaran and 761 00:28:12.171 --> 00:28:15.133 they're pulling ropes and sails are going one way and they have to do a sort 762 00:28:15.133 --> 00:28:17.133 of a U-turn round a... 763 00:28:16.254 --> 00:28:18.254 a buoy in the middle of a choppy ocean. 764 00:28:18.256 --> 00:28:20.256 And it was great. 765 00:28:18.776 --> 00:28:21.258 But now you can't see any crew. 766 00:28:21.919 --> 00:28:24.621 They've got these like almost like hydrofoils on the 767 00:28:24.681 --> 00:28:26.681 side, 768 00:28:25.441 --> 00:28:28.384 which are programmed with AI to get around this 769 00:28:28.444 --> 00:28:30.444 buoy. 770 00:28:28.904 --> 00:28:30.904 So it's all now. 771 00:28:30.205 --> 00:28:32.205 I mean, okay, 772 00:28:30.686 --> 00:28:33.268 you have to have a skipper and you have to make a few decisions, 773 00:28:33.548 --> 00:28:36.450 but it's all computer generated, Aviv. 774 00:28:36.731 --> 00:28:38.731 It's everywhere, your AI. 775 00:28:39.132 --> 00:28:41.494 Yeah, look, I mean, that's another thing you have to understand, 776 00:28:41.514 --> 00:28:43.514 that everything stopped today. 777 00:28:43.476 --> 00:28:45.476 Absolutely stopped today. 778 00:28:44.237 --> 00:28:46.237 There was no more progress from where we are right now. 779 00:28:46.454 --> 00:28:48.555 In the next 10 years, the developments in the world, 780 00:28:48.615 --> 00:28:50.615 just based on the current technology, 781 00:28:50.115 --> 00:28:52.115 would still be revolutionary. 782 00:28:52.276 --> 00:28:55.116 We'd still be seeing such incredible changes in how the world works, 783 00:28:55.556 --> 00:28:57.997 just based on the stuff that we have available right now. 784 00:28:58.797 --> 00:29:01.378 So yeah, the stuff is coming out in ways that are weird. 785 00:29:01.638 --> 00:29:03.638 But what do you want to mention? 786 00:29:02.438 --> 00:29:04.438 I don't think we've mentioned this yet. 787 00:29:03.399 --> 00:29:05.399 I don't know if we talked about it. 788 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:06.079 Have we talked about the two-pot system yet? 789 00:29:05.839 --> 00:29:07.839 No, no, we haven't. 790 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:09.240 On Sunday. 791 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:10.960 Is that when it starts? 792 00:29:10.861 --> 00:29:12.861 It starts on Sunday. 793 00:29:12.321 --> 00:29:14.321 And I wanted to ask David, 794 00:29:14.262 --> 00:29:16.262 because I've been seeing estimates out there. 795 00:29:16.142 --> 00:29:19.084 somewhere around about the 70 billion round range in terms of withdrawals. 796 00:29:21.206 --> 00:29:23.206 Anywhere between 797 00:29:22.847 --> 00:29:24.847 25 to 70. 798 00:29:24.488 --> 00:29:26.488 No one knows what it's going to be. 799 00:29:25.789 --> 00:29:27.789 Yeah. 800 00:29:26.790 --> 00:29:28.790 No one knows. 801 00:29:28.612 --> 00:29:30.612 Yeah. 802 00:29:28.732 --> 00:29:31.414 And 70 billion in a market that does about 15 billion in a day 803 00:29:32.455 --> 00:29:34.455 in terms of sales. 804 00:29:34.036 --> 00:29:36.036 Yeah. 805 00:29:34.896 --> 00:29:36.896 It is a wholesale. 806 00:29:36.858 --> 00:29:38.858 That's going to be a very 807 00:29:39.280 --> 00:29:41.280 I think that's going to be front-loaded as well. 808 00:29:40.621 --> 00:29:42.621 It's going to happen mostly in the first month. 809 00:29:43.091 --> 00:29:45.091 I don't know if you'd expect or not, 810 00:29:44.392 --> 00:29:46.754 but I think next month might be very bad for 811 00:29:47.554 --> 00:29:49.554 the South African markets. 812 00:29:48.915 --> 00:29:50.915 If you're forcing 50, 813 00:29:50.377 --> 00:29:53.259 70 billion rounds of the sale to a market that does 814 00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:55.961 15 billion in one day in total volume. 815 00:29:56.862 --> 00:29:59.244 That's a terrible thought. 816 00:29:59.284 --> 00:30:02.026 We're trying to understand what it does to because 817 00:30:02.246 --> 00:30:04.908 it's going to affect those pension funds where 818 00:30:05.649 --> 00:30:08.091 they have a low level of worker or 819 00:30:08.511 --> 00:30:10.511 low-income workers. 820 00:30:09.933 --> 00:30:11.933 The smaller pension funds. 821 00:30:11.714 --> 00:30:14.536 who need the money rather than an older established 822 00:30:14.576 --> 00:30:17.497 type pension funds but no one can give me any 823 00:30:17.617 --> 00:30:20.439 kind of clear indication of what it's going to do 824 00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:23.241 to the stock market uh i'll sit on a pension 825 00:30:23.301 --> 00:30:26.262 fund and they're very well kind of buffered 826 00:30:26.403 --> 00:30:28.403 or cushioned uh 827 00:30:28.384 --> 00:30:31.185 made a little bit of a provision but it's hardly going to dent 828 00:30:31.225 --> 00:30:33.627 them at all this is a multi-billion one 829 00:30:34.087 --> 00:30:37.069 and uh so i think for the larger ones are okay but 830 00:30:37.409 --> 00:30:39.409 but i think it's going to be released 831 00:30:41.764 --> 00:30:43.764 into the economy, 832 00:30:43.105 --> 00:30:45.105 mainly for foodstuffs or whatever. 833 00:30:44.907 --> 00:30:46.907 My big fear, 834 00:30:45.688 --> 00:30:48.350 and I say this tongue-in-cheek mainly because I 835 00:30:48.411 --> 00:30:51.293 read there was an article, I don't know if you picked it up, 836 00:30:51.353 --> 00:30:53.936 from Capitec about the huge 837 00:30:54.036 --> 00:30:56.036 levels of sports betting. 838 00:30:55.758 --> 00:30:58.040 And it's just something that really upsets me. 839 00:30:58.901 --> 00:31:01.563 It genuinely upsets me because every 840 00:31:01.663 --> 00:31:04.366 time I'm a sports lover, I watch. 841 00:31:04.782 --> 00:31:06.782 You know, I watch the sports all the time, 842 00:31:06.744 --> 00:31:09.265 and the only thing I see are sports betting 843 00:31:10.106 --> 00:31:12.668 adverts from, you know, from different, and they're glamorous, 844 00:31:12.688 --> 00:31:15.230 they make it glamorous, with a bit of booze on the side. 845 00:31:16.142 --> 00:31:18.142 you know, cognacs and so on. 846 00:31:17.703 --> 00:31:19.703 And everything's glamorous. 847 00:31:19.043 --> 00:31:21.043 And it's not that glamorous. 848 00:31:20.904 --> 00:31:23.585 There's nothing glamorous about losing a bet, David, let me tell you, 849 00:31:23.965 --> 00:31:26.426 and trying to claw it back and being in the pocket of your 850 00:31:26.446 --> 00:31:28.446 bookmaker. 851 00:31:27.307 --> 00:31:29.307 I used to bet informally, 852 00:31:29.328 --> 00:31:31.328 and I would invariably lose. 853 00:31:31.128 --> 00:31:33.589 You can't win really, unless you're very, very lucky, 854 00:31:33.990 --> 00:31:35.990 or very skillful, 855 00:31:35.070 --> 00:31:37.251 or have insider knowledge on what's going on. 856 00:31:37.751 --> 00:31:39.992 But I remember the chap said to me, 857 00:31:40.332 --> 00:31:42.332 I phoned him up and said, 858 00:31:41.533 --> 00:31:43.974 I can't pay for another few days till I get paid. 859 00:31:43.974 --> 00:31:45.974 He said, No, no worry. 860 00:31:45.158 --> 00:31:47.799 But he said, Lindsay, pay and the pain goes away. 861 00:31:48.399 --> 00:31:50.399 And also know your limits. 862 00:31:50.260 --> 00:31:52.281 But these companies like Paddy Power in the UK, 863 00:31:53.362 --> 00:31:55.903 they come across as really friendly, have lovely ads, 864 00:31:55.923 --> 00:31:57.923 and it's very funny. 865 00:31:57.183 --> 00:31:59.183 They don't use the glamour thing. 866 00:31:58.424 --> 00:32:00.424 They use the humour thing. 867 00:32:00.285 --> 00:32:03.126 But you look at the football that you and I watch religiously, 868 00:32:03.226 --> 00:32:05.226 David, 869 00:32:04.086 --> 00:32:06.888 about 50% of the premiership clubs have 870 00:32:07.588 --> 00:32:09.588 a sports betting company. 871 00:32:09.789 --> 00:32:11.789 I hate it. 872 00:32:11.310 --> 00:32:13.310 Yeah, yeah. 873 00:32:13.558 --> 00:32:15.558 Yeah, look, 874 00:32:13.838 --> 00:32:16.620 there's a reason you put the casinos way out of the 875 00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:18.640 distance, middle of Las Vegas, Sun City. 876 00:32:19.081 --> 00:32:21.081 Yes, 877 00:32:19.261 --> 00:32:22.182 it's fun to go and gamble for a weekend 878 00:32:22.182 --> 00:32:24.182 or so, right? 879 00:32:23.002 --> 00:32:25.243 But you can't have it available every day, all the time. 880 00:32:25.923 --> 00:32:27.923 That's when you get into real trouble. 881 00:32:27.444 --> 00:32:29.444 You can go and say, okay, 882 00:32:28.504 --> 00:32:31.226 I'll blow you a certain amount of money at 883 00:32:31.526 --> 00:32:34.047 the back of the day at Wild Coast or something, you know what I mean? 884 00:32:34.427 --> 00:32:36.427 Or go to Las Vegas or go to Sun City, 885 00:32:36.007 --> 00:32:38.007 and you have this long trip. 886 00:32:37.848 --> 00:32:39.848 You do it, it's over, you come back. 887 00:32:39.949 --> 00:32:42.030 But when you start having casinos in the city, 888 00:32:42.650 --> 00:32:44.811 Why is that having the thing on your phone? 889 00:32:45.231 --> 00:32:47.231 Yes, exactly. 890 00:32:45.891 --> 00:32:47.891 This is very dangerous. 891 00:32:47.591 --> 00:32:49.591 It's a very dangerous thing. 892 00:32:48.872 --> 00:32:50.872 You can play slots on your phone every night. 893 00:32:50.892 --> 00:32:52.913 You can play poker on your phone every night. 894 00:32:53.273 --> 00:32:56.154 It's not a day out or a weekend out with the family and having 895 00:32:56.194 --> 00:32:58.254 a hundred grand flutter on the slots or something. 896 00:32:58.514 --> 00:33:00.514 This is an addiction on that phone. 897 00:33:00.415 --> 00:33:03.396 And I'm sure half the people you watch are sitting in a restaurant 898 00:33:04.096 --> 00:33:06.096 with their phone. 899 00:33:05.016 --> 00:33:07.237 I'm sure some of them are playing the slots. 900 00:33:07.457 --> 00:33:09.457 There was an advert. 901 00:33:08.957 --> 00:33:10.957 That's what I was going to say. 902 00:33:09.917 --> 00:33:11.917 There was one advert where... 903 00:33:12.442 --> 00:33:14.442 Both of them, the male and the female, 904 00:33:14.484 --> 00:33:16.484 the lady excuses herself, 905 00:33:15.865 --> 00:33:18.728 goes to sit on the toilet so that she can finish her bed. 906 00:33:18.968 --> 00:33:20.968 And the chap, 907 00:33:20.149 --> 00:33:22.149 her date is doing the exact same thing. 908 00:33:22.351 --> 00:33:24.351 And that's what it is down to. 909 00:33:23.792 --> 00:33:25.792 It becomes an obsession. 910 00:33:25.033 --> 00:33:27.675 And believe me, there's nothing glamorous. 911 00:33:27.795 --> 00:33:29.795 And it's all over the place. 912 00:33:29.237 --> 00:33:31.237 It's in your face. 913 00:33:30.458 --> 00:33:32.700 And Capitec raised concerns. 914 00:33:33.260 --> 00:33:35.260 And there's nothing. 915 00:33:35.482 --> 00:33:37.504 There's no, you know, 916 00:33:37.724 --> 00:33:40.166 kids can pick up their parents'phone and do what they like. 917 00:33:40.246 --> 00:33:43.028 because you don't have to be 918 00:33:43.028 --> 00:33:45.028 18 or whatever it is. 919 00:33:44.489 --> 00:33:46.489 But anyway, it's... 920 00:33:46.090 --> 00:33:48.090 Well, it's a good point you brought up, David. 921 00:33:47.791 --> 00:33:50.613 I should maybe do an extended program about the 922 00:33:50.954 --> 00:33:53.756 extent of sports betting in South Africa, which can ill afford it, 923 00:33:53.796 --> 00:33:55.796 let's face it. 924 00:33:54.436 --> 00:33:56.436 Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time as always. 925 00:33:56.157 --> 00:33:58.157 Another great chat. 926 00:33:56.958 --> 00:33:58.958 I really enjoyed it today. 927 00:33:58.019 --> 00:34:00.019 David Shapiro is from SAS and Securities. 928 00:34:00.020 --> 00:34:02.020 Viv Govender from Rennes, Swiss. 929 00:34:01.781 --> 00:34:03.781 Both from Johannesburg. 930 00:34:02.862 --> 00:34:04.862 And that was the 5 o'clock shadow. 931 00:34:04.623 --> 00:34:07.385 The views and opinions expressed in these podcasts are those of 932 00:34:07.445 --> 00:34:09.445 Lindsay Williams. 933 00:34:08.686 --> 00:34:11.568 and various contributors and do not reflect the policy, 934 00:34:11.689 --> 00:34:14.311 position, or opinion of any other agency, 935 00:34:14.551 --> 00:34:16.551 organization, employer, 936 00:34:16.432 --> 00:34:18.514 or company associated with 937 00:34:18.554 --> 00:34:20.554 StrictlyBusinessPodcast.com. 938 00:34:20.736 --> 00:34:23.178 Assumptions made on the analyses are not 939 00:34:23.298 --> 00:34:26.241 reflective of the position of any other entity other 940 00:34:26.281 --> 00:34:28.281 than the speaker or the author. 941 00:34:28.002 --> 00:34:30.504 And since we are critically thinking human beings, 942 00:34:30.864 --> 00:34:33.206 these views are always subject to change, 943 00:34:33.466 --> 00:34:36.029 revision, and rethinking at any time. 944 00:34:36.349 --> 00:34:38.349 Please do not hold us to them. 945 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:39.960 in perpetuity.